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Split Thread A second impeachment

theprestige said:
It does mean that new restrictions have to have some sort of constitutional basis. The Senate can't simply say, "because we're constitutionally authorized to approve Cabinet nominees, we're also authorized to approve any and all Executive branch employees."

And I doubt Congress can simply pass a law making it so.
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Nor would they want to. I've been hired to 4 different jobs inside my Executive branch agency and it would totally suck to have to get senate approval for every last one of them.

This is not to mention the nightmare that would happen when we hire a few dozen people off the streets, as it were, to start their careers. There is a security check, but Senate approval for a mail clerk? Wouldn't be a fan. I don't think they would even want a part of that.
 
acbytesla said:
Yeah. Pelosi is pissed. McCarthy is crying this is too divisive. But that is the point.

He's terrified that this will split the GOP because they will have to stand on one side or the other.
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One way Tim could make it a lot less divisive is to encourage all the Republicans to vote for it.




I don't think that they should press articles of impeachment unless they are confident they have the votes for a conviction, but the idea that it is too divisive kind of sticks in my craw. Too divisive is continuing to support a lunatic who tried to overturn a democratic election.
 
Meadmaker said:
One way Tim could make it a lot less divisive is to encourage all the Republicans to vote for it.




I don't think that they should press articles of impeachment unless they are confident they have the votes for a conviction, but the idea that it is too divisive kind of sticks in my craw. Too divisive is continuing to support a lunatic who tried to overturn a democratic election.
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I think it should be pressed just so that we can get another choice quote from Sen Collins about how much Trump has grown through this whole ordeal. Her state deserves better, but maybe that needs to be made more clear.

That is to say, I think they will have the votes this time.
 
Meadmaker said:
One way Tim could make it a lot less divisive is to encourage all the Republicans to vote for it.

I don't think that they should press articles of impeachment unless they are confident they have the votes for a conviction, but the idea that it is too divisive kind of sticks in my craw. Too divisive is continuing to support a lunatic who tried to overturn a democratic election.
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Pedantic correction.
It's Kevin McCarthy.

Whether he is impeached or not, there are going to be consequences.
 
acbytesla said:
Pedantic correction.
It's Kevin McCarthy.

Whether he is impeached or not, there are going to be consequences.
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Yes, but if he's not impeached, then during later elections the republican candidates will find it easier to lie about where they stand on things.

If Trump is impeached again, each congress-critter will have to give a "yay or nay" to Trump's actions in encouraging the riot. That makes it much harder for them to hide their true beliefs.
 
acbytesla said:
Yeah. Pelosi is pissed. McCarthy is crying this is too divisive. But that is the point.

He's terrified that this will split the GOP because they will have to stand on one side or the other.
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I am sure that fact did not slip Pelosi's mind when she made this decision. it's not the mian reason but I fine it unlikely this though did not cross her mind....
 
"President Trump’s conduct on January 6, 2021 was consistent with his prior efforts to subvert and obstruct the certification of the results of the 2020 presidential election. Those prior efforts include, but are not limited to, a phone call on January 2, 2021, in which President Trump urged Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to ‘‘find’’ enough votes to overturn the Georgia presidential election results and threatened Mr. Raffensperger if he failed to do so. In all of this, President Trump gravely endangered the security of the United States and its institutions of government. He threatened the integrity of the democratic system, interfered with the peaceful transition of power, and imperiled a coordinate branch of government. He thereby betrayed his trust as President, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States."
 
Segnosaur said:
Yes, but if he's not impeached, then during later elections the republican candidates will find it easier to lie about where they stand on things.

If Trump is impeached again, each congress-critter will have to give a "yay or nay" to Trump's actions in encouraging the riot. That makes it much harder for them to hide their true beliefs.
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I agree with that. In fact, I know that is why Pelosi is doing it. Biden doesn't sound like he's fully on board. And the GOP could maneuver to avoid it in the Senate. Monday will leave 9 days left. If they impeached Trump on Monday which would be absurdly fast, McConnell could easily delay the start of the trial to next Monday to prevent the need for the Senators to vote.
 
jrhowell said:
...McConnell could easily delay the start of the trial to next Monday to prevent the need for the Senators to vote.
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Why? I thought that impeachment would proceed whether or not he is still in office.
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Yes, I think impeachment gets voted on regardless.

Granted, if Moscow Mitch delays things, Trump would be out of office, it will be a largely symbolic act. (Although they could vote to ensure he could never hold public office again.) But senators would still be on the record either way.
 
Segnosaur said:
Yes, I think impeachment gets voted on regardless.

Granted, if Moscow Mitch delays things, Trump would be out of office, it will be a largely symbolic act. (Although they could vote to ensure he could never hold public office again.) But senators would still be on the record either way.
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Agreed. Not sure it will actually play out that way though. We'll see on Monday. I think this is mostly about making republicans (in both the House and Senate) go on the record.

And sure, it's symbolic, but did you see the Kabuki theater that played out with speeches during the certification exercise? That was all symbolic. Most of what they do is symbolic except for SOME votes.
 
Why are Democrats so ******* stupid?

You won, Trump disintegrated, so has his party.

Whatever the party thinks it might gain from impeachment, I can tell you what it will reap: the opposite of what's intended.

The Republican party is in tatters, and the one thing that will enable them to re-build is an attack from their common enemy, the Democratic Party.

It's a time to forgive and forget, try to build alliances, try to heal the divisions, not dig them deeper. Moderate Republicans are pissed off at Trump, but they'll be a lot more pissed off at stupid old **** Nancy Pelosi showboating and making idiotic assertions that Trump might start nuclear war,

She's an idiot, and so are all the members of her party supporting her. Even if it worked, it would turn Trump into a martyr, which is just what you don't need to do.

Utter insanity that will backfire.
 
Why is it only the Dems who need to forgive and forget?
Where are the Republicans apologizing for claiming that Democrats just engaged in massive voter fraud?

Every time Biden has tried to reach out, Republicans have spit in his face.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Why is it only the Dems who need to forgive and forget?
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Because the ultimate insult is to decline to lower yourself to their level.

The Great Zaganza said:
Where are the Republicans apologizing for claiming that Democrats just engaged in massive voter fraud?
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See above.

It comes down to whether the Democrats would like to get some Republican voters to switch sides.

Impeaching Trump will do the exact opposite and harden those voters' opposition to what they perceive as a bunch of over-entitled elites.

The high ground is wide open and empty - why the hell wouldn't you occupy it? Impeachment right now is pathetic and acting as dumb as Trump.

It's the American Way.
 
The Atheist said:
Why are Democrats so ******* stupid?

You won, Trump disintegrated, so has his party.

Whatever the party thinks it might gain from impeachment, I can tell you what it will reap: the opposite of what's intended.

The Republican party is in tatters, and the one thing that will enable them to re-build is an attack from their common enemy, the Democratic Party.

It's a time to forgive and forget, try to build alliances, try to heal the divisions, not dig them deeper. Moderate Republicans are pissed off at Trump, but they'll be a lot more pissed off at stupid old **** Nancy Pelosi showboating and making idiotic assertions that Trump might start nuclear war,

She's an idiot, and so are all the members of her party supporting her. Even if it worked, it would turn Trump into a martyr, which is just what you don't need to do.

Utter insanity that will backfire.
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Bollocks. The GOP is not in tatters. They are wounded but they will crawl into a cave, lick their wounds, and crawl out whole again like they always do. They must be forced to face what they have wrought by their cowardly enabling of a mad man and to make a final choice now one way or the other: choose Trump or choose the survival of our Democracy.

"Forgive and Forget" my big fat arse. This should never be forgiven nor forgotten. Worked past. Yes. Learned from. Yes. I've got news for you: it's like when a spouse cheats in a marriage. The marriage may survive and they may even be happy again. But the cheated on spouse deep down never truly forgives and never, ever forgets.
 
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