Merged A Proof of the Existence of God / Did Someone Create the Universe?

[Buddha]

This thread has been split to its own topic.

Posted By: Loss Leader

I am an atheist because I know its common sense that if there's zero proof of something there's no reason to believe its true. Therefore since I have yet to see any serious evidence for any deity's existence I have no reason to believe in any god.

I'm glad that atheism is no on the rise but it seems that many people (specifically young people) are becoming atheists simply because its edgy. Because christianity is the status quo religion so being an atheist is the counterculture to this. Or because people want to p**s off their parents. Or because they got dragged into church in their youth.

People should choose what they want to believe through critical thinking and what conclusions they come up with on their own. If people blindly follow atheism because its trendy right now then they're no better than religious followers.

It is possible in principle to provide an empirical proof that God exists. However, not everyone will accept it, everything depends on individual's personal preferences.

This is a tale of two atheists, a smart one and a mediocre one, who met God. "Give us a proof that you are the Creator, " said one of them. "All right. I will snap my fingers and a new universe will come to be, " said God. " So God snapped his fingers and a new universe appeared. "This is a hallucination. You either spiked my drink with LSD or something else, or hypnotized me without my consent, " said the mediocre atheist. "God turned to the smart atheist and said, "What do you think?" "Everything is real here, there is no hallucination. You snapped your fingers and the universe appeared, as you predicted. But this was just a coincidence, the new universe would have came out of nothing even if we have not had this conversation. I know, the chance of such coincidence is minimal, but it is still not zero, " said the smart atheist. "I must give you a credit for saying this. Logically speaking, you are right," said God.

I can do better that giving an empirical proof that the Creator exists -- I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists. To me existence of God is not a matter of faith but of logical necessity.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

It is possible in principle to provide an empirical proof that God exists. However, not everyone will accept it, everything depends on individual's personal preferences.

This is a tale of two atheists, a smart one and a mediocre one, who met God. "Give us a proof that you are the Creator, " said one of them. "All right. I will snap my fingers and a new universe will come to be, " said God. " So God snapped his fingers and a new universe appeared. "This is a hallucination. You either spiked my drink with LSD or something else, or hypnotized me without my consent, " said the mediocre atheist. "God turned to the smart atheist and said, "What do you think?" "Everything is real here, there is no hallucination. You snapped your fingers and the universe appeared, as you predicted. But this was just a coincidence, the new universe would have came out of nothing even if we have not had this conversation. I know, the chance of such coincidence is minimal, but it is still not zero, " said the smart atheist. "I must give you a credit for saying this. Logically speaking, you are right," said God.

I can do better that giving an empirical proof that the Creator exists -- I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists. To me existence of God is not a matter of faith but of logical necessity.

Where is the empiricism? I only see a made up story.

 

[ddt]

Where is the empiricism? I only see a made up story.

Moreover, a made-up story that starts from the assumption there is a creator. It's circular reasoning, IOW, an epic fail.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

And another strawman "Them stoopid atheists" story so beloved of fundamentalists.

 

[Cheetah]

Surely that was just a story and not the actual methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists. Those must still be coming, lets be patient.

 

[Pixel42]

I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists.

Then do so.

I wait with interest.

 

[SOdhner]

It is possible in principle to provide an empirical proof that God exists.

Well so far in the history of mankind nobody has done so.

So God snapped his fingers and a new universe appeared. "This is a hallucination. You either spiked my drink with LSD or something else, or hypnotized me without my consent, " said the mediocre atheist."

That's reasonable. The "mediocre" atheist is suggesting several alternative explanations that have a higher probability based on what he already knows. Hallucinating is a much simpler explanation than "god exists, and created an entire universe just to prove a point for me".

"Everything is real here, there is no hallucination. You snapped your fingers and the universe appeared, as you predicted. But this was just a coincidence, the new universe would have came out of nothing even if we have not had this conversation. I know, the chance of such coincidence is minimal, but it is still not zero," said the smart atheist.

Wow, the "smart" atheist has a way worse suggestion. It's still arguably more likely than god existing and doing it, but it's far from the most likely explanation and it's not testable which means he can't really state it with that kind of confidence.

"I must give you a credit for saying this. Logically speaking, you are right," said God.

Okay so in this scenario god doesn't know how logic works?

I can do better that giving an empirical proof that the Creator exists -- I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists.

I doubt it's one we haven't heard and poked holes in a hundred times.

 

[Loss Leader]

"This is a hallucination. You either spiked my drink with LSD or something else, or hypnotized me without my consent, " said the mediocre atheist. "God turned to the smart atheist and said, "What do you think?" "Everything is real here, there is no hallucination. You snapped your fingers and the universe appeared, as you predicted. But this was just a coincidence, the new universe would have came out of nothing even if we have not had this conversation. I know, the chance of such coincidence is minimal, but it is still not zero, " said the smart atheist.

Neither atheist suggested a repeatable, falsifiable test? Neither asked God to even define what the word "God" means to him? Neither listed out all of the potential ways a new universe could appear to exist and then asked how they could or could not be ruled out? Neither wondered how they could even observe a new universe seeing as they already existed inside a universe which is already defined as having no exterior? Neither offered to grant that this guy could create universes, but that the ability to make universes doesn't necessarily mean that the creator is immortal, omnipotent, omnipresent, a moral authority, or had ever even interceded in human affairs?

Imaginary atheists really suck at logic in your view. Let's see how you do against, you know, atheists you don't just make up in your own head.

 

[Dancing David]

This thread has been split to its own topic.

Posted By: Loss Leader

It is possible in principle to provide an empirical proof that God exists. However, not everyone will accept it, everything depends on individual's personal preferences.

This is a tale of two atheists, a smart one and a mediocre one, who met God. "Give us a proof that you are the Creator, " said one of them. "All right. I will snap my fingers and a new universe will come to be, " said God. " So God snapped his fingers and a new universe appeared. "This is a hallucination. You either spiked my drink with LSD or something else, or hypnotized me without my consent, " said the mediocre atheist. "God turned to the smart atheist and said, "What do you think?" "Everything is real here, there is no hallucination. You snapped your fingers and the universe appeared, as you predicted. But this was just a coincidence, the new universe would have came out of nothing even if we have not had this conversation. I know, the chance of such coincidence is minimal, but it is still not zero, " said the smart atheist. "I must give you a credit for saying this. Logically speaking, you are right," said God.

I can do better that giving an empirical proof that the Creator exists -- I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists. To me existence of God is not a matter of faith but of logical necessity.

Oh my!

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

I can do better that giving an empirical proof that the Creator exists -- I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists. To me existence of God is not a matter of faith but of logical necessity.

Why not start with your better option, then? Let's see where you "use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists."

I don't think anything can be "proven" about the real world (see Kant's synthetic apriori).

 

[MuDPhuD]

This thread has been split to its own topic.

Posted By: Loss Leader

It is possible in principle to provide an empirical proof that God exists. However, not everyone will accept it, everything depends on individual's personal preferences.
<....>
I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists. To me existence of God is not a matter of faith but of logical necessity.

Then do proceed...one step at a time, please, so we can verify each premise along the way.

 

[The Norseman]

Neither atheist suggested a repeatable, falsifiable test? Neither asked God to even define what the word "God" means to him? Neither listed out all of the potential ways a new universe could appear to exist and then asked how they could or could not be ruled out? Neither wondered how they could even observe a new universe seeing as they already existed inside a universe which is already defined as having no exterior? Neither offered to grant that this guy could create universes, but that the ability to make universes doesn't necessarily mean that the creator is immortal, omnipotent, omnipresent, a moral authority, or had ever even interceded in human affairs?

Imaginary atheists really suck at logic in your view. Let's see how you do against, you know, atheists you don't just make up in your own head.

Might be worth some exploration, though I guarantee you OP will fail at the first hurdle, just like pretty much every theist does — "define 'god' in a rational, meaningful, coherent way."

 

[JayUtah]

However, not everyone will accept it, everything depends on individual's personal preferences.

Then that's not a proof.

I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists. To me existence of God is not a matter of faith but of logical necessity.

Go for it. A guy a few threads down spent five years here trying to prove that immortality was a mathematical certainty. Of course what he proved -- repeatedly -- was that he knew nothing about logic or math, so we have to ask how open you are to the possibility that your skill in logical reasoning may not be as strong as you think. Keep in mind that many thousands of logicians have lived before you and that proof of the existence of God is a much-sought-after item. One of the questions you'll eventually be asked is why you think you can succeed were so many other eager, able people have failed.

 

[Thor 2]

Yes we all await with interest.

Buddha has God snapping his fingers I notice, so He would have other human bits I imagine. This must be a God made in our image then ........ oh hang on ...... it was supposed to be the other way around wasn't it.

 

[smartcooky]

This thread has been split to its own topic.

Posted By: Loss Leader

It is possible in principle to provide an empirical proof that God exists. However, not everyone will accept it, everything depends on individual's personal preferences.

This is a tale of two atheists, a smart one and a mediocre one, who met God. "Give us a proof that you are the Creator, " said one of them. "All right. I will snap my fingers and a new universe will come to be, " said God. " So God snapped his fingers and a new universe appeared. "This is a hallucination. You either spiked my drink with LSD or something else, or hypnotized me without my consent, " said the mediocre atheist. "God turned to the smart atheist and said, "What do you think?" "Everything is real here, there is no hallucination. You snapped your fingers and the universe appeared, as you predicted. But this was just a coincidence, the new universe would have came out of nothing even if we have not had this conversation. I know, the chance of such coincidence is minimal, but it is still not zero, " said the smart atheist. "I must give you a credit for saying this. Logically speaking, you are right," said God.

I can do better that giving an empirical proof that the Creator exists -- I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists. To me existence of God is not a matter of faith but of logical necessity.

It all comes down to faith.

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."

 

[Dancing David]

Guess #1: Prime cause
The universe exists, therefore it is caused. Call that cause god

 

[Giordano]

I'm expecting: "Nothing comes from nothing. Except God. Because! QED"

 

[Joecool]

There's a 9 year old boy genius who will be attempting to prove that God exists.

“Well because there’s these atheists that try to say that there is no God, when in reality it takes more faith to believe that there’s no God than it does to believe that there is a God… Because it makes more sense that something created the universe than that the universe created itself. It takes more faith to say the universe created itself than to say something other created the universe because that is more logical.”

https://faithit.com/11-year-old-genius-prove-stephen-hawking-wrong-death-god-exist/

 

[fromdownunder]

Proof of God.

 

[smartcooky]

If the general picture of an expanding universe and a Big Bang is correct, we must then confront still more difficult questions. What were conditions like at the time of the Big Bang? What happened before that? Was there a tiny universe, devoid of all matter, and then the matter suddenly created from nothing? How does that happen?

In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from. And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and decide that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question? Or, if we say that God has always existed, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?

-Carl Sagan