A million dollars isn't enough!

[severin]

If I were truly psychic, I'd keep damn quiet about it. I wouldn't want to end up as some sort of lab rat or be pressurized into doing dodgy things for the military. I know some people are desperate for fame but a million dollars wouldn't be enough for me to make up for being prodded and poked and electrodes being attached to my brain. It's not like being a super athlete or a scientist making a breakthrough discovery, you'd be treated like a freak and hounded by the press forever. No amount of money is worth that.

What does everyone think? Would you be emailing Randi if you could turn water into wine?

 

[Brown]

Would you be emailing Randi if you could turn water into wine?

Hell, yes!

As I've said before, if I really had a supernatural ability, I would be eager to demonstrate it for the million dollar prize. I'd be first in line, and I wouldn't insist on changing the experiment or having options for trickery left open to me.

Many of the claimed extraordinary abilities are actually quite trivial, with little or no known military value. Other abilities clearly would have military value if they were real, and it would be a hell of a lot easier to sell these skills to the military for a lot more money if the skills had been validated by JREF.

 

[Torlack]

If I was a fraud I would make up all sorts of excuses for not to try the million dollar test.

 

[uneasy]

People don't have to display useful powers to win the challenge. If they could make eggs explode by just staring at them, but only hummingbird eggs laid on a Tuesday, I think that would win it, if they could really do it.

If I were to develop super powers, I would display the bare minimum required to win the money. All my other mighty powers would be used for my own ends. hahahahaha, you'll pay, you will all pay!!!

 

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

**** the millions dollar challenge. As I have said before we are just the imagination of a evil alien that doesn't exist so there is no point!

 

[Rolfe]

.... you'd be treated like a freak and hounded by the press forever. No amount of money is worth that.

The point about the Challenge, certainly as I see it, is to shove it in the faces of people who are already very public about their alleged powers. And very useful it is too.

Oh, you say you can talk to the dead / foretell the future / find water with a forked stick / cure disease with shaken-up water? Prove it!

Naw, can't be bothered. What's in it for me anyway?

A million bucks?

This ploy was used just last week in a veterinary journal.

Human nature doesn't often turn up its nose at an easy £600,000 plus. Even if the money is irrelevant, what about the publicity value? Winning that prize for homoeopathy would stun the critics dead in their tracks. The system and its proponents would be resoundingly vindicated. The world would be at your feet. But still, nobody seems to want to try.

That's the rest of the pont, isn't it? Winning the prize would give their powers enormous publicity, and validate their claims better than anything else I can think of. The fact that the prize is still sitting there unwon is in itself a good pointer to the claims being bogus.

Actually, I thought this thread might mean something else. £630,000 (or a bit more) isn't wealth beyond the dreams of avarice these days. For one person it's certainly a tidy sum, and I for one would go for it if I thought there was anything in the woo-woo claims. However, what if the prize has to be split?

The guy the quoted text was aimed at had another letter on the same page in which he claimed it needed a team of 10 people to identify the homoeopathic remedy, because each might experience slightly different symptoms and you had to put it all together. At that point, you're starting to look at just £63,000 each. Well, it's still better than a slap in the face with a wet fish, and my points about the publicity value still stand, but it doesn't look quite so tasty all of a sudden.

I still think it's reasonable bait though, and for it's intended purpose of allowing anyone to say to a charlatan or quack "put up or shut up", it works very nicely.

Roilfe.

 

[severin]

Even if all I could do was levitate a ping pong ball, I don't think I'd tell anyone. You'd attract a whole array of nutters, for a start - people who thought they had powers too, people who wanted to see you do it, people who were convinced you were faking it, journalists, chat show researchers, etc etc. It's not like you could just pop round to Randi's house for a private demonstration. Your life would never be your own again. And if you knew you could do it for real, why would you want 'validating'?

As far as I'm concerned, the prize is there to weed out the loonies.

 

[Dorian Gray]

If I could turn water into wine, I could make far more than a million dollars by planting a cover vineyard and digging a well in a bottling plant on the property.

In a sense, this means that Randi's prize is sort of the same kind of trick that he routinely debunks.

He knows no one will ever claim the prize, because frauds can't claim it and someone with legitimate powers won't claim it.

 

[Brown]

Even if all I could do was levitate a ping pong ball, I don't think I'd tell anyone. You'd attract a whole array of nutters, for a start - people who thought they had powers too, people who wanted to see you do it, people who were convinced you were faking it, journalists, chat show researchers, etc etc. It's not like you could just pop round to Randi's house for a private demonstration. Your life would never be your own again. And if you knew you could do it for real, why would you want 'validating'?

As far as I'm concerned, the prize is there to weed out the loonies.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Let's use the ping pong ball as an example. There are lots of ways to perform a simple stunt like levitating a ping pong ball. Some of them involve known principles of science, such as suspending a ping pong ball in a column of air. Some of them involve trickery, with hidden apparatus that makes the ping pong ball appear to levitate in violation of physical laws.

But if you could levitate a ping pong ball, I mean really levitate it in violation of physical laws without any trickery, then why not take the challenge? It would be easy money which could more than pay your expenses. As for publicity, that is largely a matter within your control. You can choose to shove yourself into the limelight or not.

Also, I understand that it is possible to drop by the JREF to give a demonstration of claimed powers, and I understand many claimants have done so. Calling ahead, of course, will assure that Mr. Randi or other qualified witness will be present.

If I could levitate a ping pong ball, I mean really levitate it, I would have no hesitation about signing up for the challenge. These excuses that "I don't need the money" or "I don't need validation" or "The test is going to be unfair" ring hollow.

 

[roger]

Even if all I could do was levitate a ping pong ball, I don't think I'd tell anyone. You'd attract a whole array of nutters, for a start - people who thought they had powers too, people who wanted to see you do it, people who were convinced you were faking it, journalists, chat show researchers, etc etc. It's not like you could just pop round to Randi's house for a private demonstration. Your life would never be your own again. And if you knew you could do it for real, why would you want 'validating'?

As far as I'm concerned, the prize is there to weed out the loonies.

Objection 1
Given that Randi in fact has an endless stream of people who sincerely think that they have the ability they claim, what does this do to your hypothesis.

To be very clear:

your hypothesis: anyone who knows they can do the act will not apply.

reality: hundreds of people who know they can do the act (they just happen to be deluded, so far at least) do apply for the prize.

Objection 2
your hypothesis: people wouldn't want to be paid a million dollars for moving a ball because of the change in life status.

reality: people routinely get paid a million dollars (sometimes much more, sometimes much less) for moving a ball around, and this choice has all the attendent stalking by the press, by fans, nutcases, etc. These people are called professional atheletes.

In short, your objections are clearly shown to be false by the facts.

 

[jimmygun]

If I could change water into beer I wouldn't contact Randi or anyone else. Well maybe my drinking buddies, the local liver transplant people, meals on wheels, that sort of person.

Now that I think about it I can change water into beer. It's just that it takes about two weeks and about a hundred dollars. Never mind.

 

[Rolfe]

Even if all I could do was levitate a ping pong ball, I don't think I'd tell anyone.

As far as I'm concerned, the prize is there to weed out the loonies.

OK, have I got this right? There are lots of people who are absolutely sure they can do something which would win the prize. But only the ones who are deluded will actually try.

Well, we know one thing, the ones who have tried certainly have all been deluded. But does this imply that there are people who can do it and aren't deluded?

T'ai Chi said some time ago that you couldn't say for sure that nobody has superpowers unless you've tested absolutely everybody - past and present (and then of course there still might be superpowered people in the future). Logically, he's right. But practically?

This argument has to suppose that every ping-pong-ball levitator who isn't deluded is more concerned with personal privacy than becoming rich. You can't be sure there aren't one or two shy superpowered guys in hiding, but human nature being what it is, any more than a couple, and somebody wouldn't be able to resist going for it.

One thing's for sure. The world is full of people who claim to be able to do things which would win the prize. So far as they are concerned, they either go for it, and (so far, always) are shown to be deluded, or by repeatedly weasling out of the challenge, demonstrate that they are total charlatans. There is no reason at all for anyone who is already claiming the powers in public not to try for the money (and the attendant fame, validation, "I told you so" opportunity etc.).

If genuine powers exist in more than one or two coincidentally very shy people, common sense suggests that the offer of all that money would have flushed at least one of the endowed-ones out of hiding.

I'm cool with that.

Rolfe.

 

[severin]

Jeez, guys. All I'm saying is that I would keep quiet about it, not that this proves or disproves anything or that you can extrapolate anything about human nature from my own personal reaction!

I do have a psychic power, by the way. I can turn money into cake.

 

[uneasy]

Jeez, guys. All I'm saying is that I would keep quiet about it, not that this proves or disproves anything or that you can extrapolate anything about human nature from my own personal reaction!

Nope, doesn't mean one thing one way or another. But you are making a comment on an extraordinary claim, a real supernatural ability.

I could say these two things:

If I got Halle Berry to marry me, I wouldn't tell anyone.

If I took out the trash tonight, I wouldn't tell anyone.

For one of those, I should expect a skeptical or humorous rebuttal because it's an extraordinary premise. Hint: It's the one involving a beautiful movie star.

 

[severin]

I wasn't making a comment on a real supernatural ability, I was merely using it as an example. I could just have easily have picked remote viewing as PK. I'm just interested in the psychology of the claimants. I think maybe the tone of my original post was misunderstood, judging by the responses.

So let me say it again - if I were psychic, I would keep it to myself because my fears would be that I might be exploited or things might get out of my control. And a million dollars wouldn't make up for that. In my opinion. That's all. No comment on other people. Clearer? Is it because I'm English? I'm doing my best.

 

[apoger]

>What does everyone think? Would you be emailing Randi

To help bring about a stunning breakthough that would change science as we know it and possibly be of immense practical benefit to mankind? Yes! I would be proud to allow myself to be "poked and prodded" for such a cause.

You're telling me that you would hold back new information that might increase our knowledge and transform our society? Shame on you.

 

[roger]

I wasn't making a comment on a real supernatural ability, I was merely using it as an example. I could just have easily have picked remote viewing as PK. I'm just interested in the psychology of the claimants. I think maybe the tone of my original post was misunderstood, judging by the responses.

severin, speaking for myself, I apologize, as I did assume you were criticizing the challenge, rather than offering a personal opinion. I went back and read your opening post, and I see where you are coming from. We've had a rash of posters, who in there very first post, come to this forum and start criticizing either Randi or how the challenge is structured. "if Randi would just X, then Y would occur". That sort of thing, ignoring that Randi structured the challenge to take into account all of his past dealings with scepticism. So I guess I was a little quick on the draw.

Also, it is a favorite tactic to attack the challenge, trying to show that it is invalid or unfair, to explain why the famous mediums refuse to take the test.

So, in the spirit of the question that you asked, yes, I would take the million. I'd probably work very hard to make as much money from the talent that I could (talk shows and such), then I would work w/ the scientists to study the talent, then I'd use my millions to buy myself a nice quiet life somewhere. I'm sure the celebrity angle would become trying (I don't aspire to celebrity in any way), but I don't fear getting dragged away by the government or anything.


Welcome to the forum!

 

[uneasy]

I have to repeat a little what Roger said. I think it's a combination of where you are posting (challenge forum), and your number of posts that make people apprehensive. I haven't done a study, but it seems that people signup so they can make one of their first posts a hit and run attack on JREF and then disappear. Only time can tell.

I still don't agree with you.

 

[FoundIn]

Objection 1
Given that Randi in fact has an endless stream of people who sincerely think that they have the ability they claim, what does this do to your hypothesis.

To be very clear:

your hypothesis: anyone who knows they can do the act will not apply.

reality: hundreds of people who know they can do the act (they just happen to be deluded, so far at least) do apply for the prize.

Objection 2
your hypothesis: people wouldn't want to be paid a million dollars for moving a ball because of the change in life status.

reality: people routinely get paid a million dollars (sometimes much more, sometimes much less) for moving a ball around, and this choice has all the attendent stalking by the press, by fans, nutcases, etc. These people are called professional atheletes.

In short, your objections are clearly shown to be false by the facts.

If someone could defy the laws of physics and say float a ping-pong ball, that would put them in a seperate catagory than anyone else.
So deducing this "special" person's motivations by comparing "ordinary" people's motiviations is not logical.

I tend to agree with the original point of this thread. The Million prize only tests those that have a power beyond the normal AND yet maintain normal motivations.

 

[roger]

If someone could defy the laws of physics and say float a ping-pong ball, that would put them in a seperate catagory than anyone else.
So deducing this "special" person's motivations by comparing "ordinary" people's motiviations is not logical.

It's very logical. There is no reason to suppose that this person will have different motivations because they can float a ping pong ball using their mind.