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911, investigation

cornelius

Student
C
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
27
Hello people,

i am new to this forum! sorry my english is not so good, but i hope you can understand! i was reading two nights interesting things here. i did researching 911 a few days now because my co-worker is crazy for this things , and he believes the conspiracy theorie. so he never stops talking about this in the lunch break. so i watched the films he told me about. anyway, long story, the result is this: after looking all those things and also reading the other side arguments (i was looking the screw version of loose change hehe) i have to say i don't believe the conspiracy story. its not possible, i think. anyway, but what i think is that one thing the conspiracy people have right, and that is that there was not enough investigation !! and also, not enough people fired!! really, this is soo big a scandal, why not? i know, if there is a new investigation, the conspiracy people will just say its not a 'real' investigation, but, as it is now, i dont think we can say there is enough investigation already done. i think we need learn from the horrible event!! and that is possible only when more is known of why it was possible to happen like this. really. also, when there is a big big investigation, maybe international, then i am sure the conspiracy people will be less! i know, they will not go away, but become less!! and i hope that something can be learned for this to never happen again!!
many many people believe this conspiracy thing so i think it is important to do investigation. because the people want trust their leaders. and now many do not. this is not good for everyone.
what is your opinion on this? thank you for read!
greetings
cornelius
 
no one was fired because of politics, not a conspiracy or inside job. Certainly we need to find out what went wrong in the US government and even other governments to help protect people better from future attacks.
 
Welcome, Cornelius.

I believe any investigation into the administration's handling of 9/11 would reveal all sorts of incompetence and criminality. It would also conclude, once again, that 9/11 was not an inside job, and that the Administration did not let the attacks happen.

At that point, the Truthers would all reject the study as being a whitewash, using some silly pretext, and we'd be back to square one again.
 
cornelius said:
but what i think is that one thing the conspiracy people have right, and that is that there was not enough investigation !! and also, not enough people fired!! really, this is soo big a scandal, why not? i know, if there is a new investigation, the conspiracy people will just say its not a 'real' investigation, but, as it is now, i dont think we can say there is enough investigation already done. i think we need learn from the horrible event!! and that is possible only when more is known of why it was possible to happen like this. really.
Click to expand...

Welcome, Cornelius.

Please explain what it is that you would like to investigate. We know who committed the 9/11 attacks. We know how they accomplished the attacks. We know how they were trained, how they were funded, what their goals were and what their political philosophy was. We know exactly where they flew and at what speed. We know what damage they did to the buildings and how that damage led to the collapse of the WTC. We know the names of the people who helped them and their general locations. We know how and why our intelligence and immigration systems failed. And we know basically how to fix things so that a similar attack is far, far less likely.

What else needs investigating? What questions remain? Let us know what investigation you think needs to be done and maybe we can help show you that it probably has already been done.

Thanks for asking questions.
 
thank you for answer everybody!
i know , some conspiracy people will never accept investigation. (i think some will , but never all). anyway, this is not what i mean to be the important thing. you also say it will discover alot of incompetence. i think so too. and this is what i mean. this incometence need to be discovered! so we can learn and not be incompetent in the future!

i know, because politics there is no one fired. but, i think we musst ask for this still! do you not? or maybe you think it is hopeless? because i am not american i not know so much about politics there like you. But i hope people want to be safe and not incompetent people and no protection!
 
Loss Leader said:
Please explain what it is that you would like to investigate. We know who committed the 9/11 attacks. We know how they accomplished the attacks. We know how they were trained, how they were funded, what their goals were and what their political philosophy was. ..
Click to expand...


Thank you Loss Leader for your answer. I think maybe i have not learn enough yet about 911! i have not read all the big comission report. only some parts. but i think it sais that how they were funded is not so important, no?
maybe i remember not right. does it know exact who funded? then maybe this is a lie in conspiracy film!
Also i dont think investigating planes or towers. i mean warning that was not take serious enough. and when this warning was, why not evacuate towers when a plane goes in other tower? i think the person that said 'not evactuate' should be fired!!
thank you again for your time! i think i can get some information here from this website that my co-worker will not like when i tell him! :)
 
cornelius said:
Also i dont think investigating planes or towers. i mean warning that was not take serious enough. and when this warning was, why not evacuate towers when a plane goes in other tower? i think the person that said 'not evactuate' should be fired!!
thank you again for your time! i think i can get some information here from this website that my co-worker will not like when i tell him! :)
Click to expand...
Hi, cornelius. After the north tower was hit and people began evacuating, an announcement was made in the south tower for people to stay in the building, because it was so dangerous outside: people were being killed and wounded by falling glass, flaming debris, and jumpers. At that time it was assumed that the north tower impact was an accident. Many people ignored that announcement and left anyway. Seconds before the south tower was hit, another announcement was made: "If conditions warrant on your floor you may wish to start an orderly evacuation."
 
hello Gravy,
thank you for the explain. i don't understand why assume it was an accident. of course we all would, but the people who know of warnings about something like this happen they dont think accident! do you think it was not enough time for this information from the people who know the warning?
 
Gravy said:
Hi, cornelius. After the north tower was hit and people began evacuating, an announcement was made in the south tower for people to stay in the building, because it was so dangerous outside: people were being killed and wounded by falling glass, flaming debris, and jumpers. At that time it was assumed that the north tower impact was an accident. Many people ignored that announcement and left anyway. Seconds before the south tower was hit, another announcement was made: "If conditions warrant on your floor you may wish to start an orderly evacuation."
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to further this point The securty personnel at the WTC were doing as instructed by their protocol. The FDNY would have evacuted the South Tower through the underground mall under their protocol had their been sufficient time.
 
cornelius said:
Thank you Loss Leader for your answer. I think maybe i have not learn enough yet about 911! i have not read all the big comission report. only some parts. but i think it sais that how they were funded is not so important, no?
maybe i remember not right. does it know exact who funded? then maybe this is a lie in conspiracy film!
Click to expand...
Many of the sources of funding are known, but not all. The report says that the ultimate source of funds was of little practical significance, not to investigators, but to the conspirators:

Ultimately the question of the origin of the funds is of little practical significance. Al Qaeda had many avenues of funding. If a particular source of funds dried up, it could have easily tapped a different source or diverted money from a different project to fund an attack that cost $400,000– $500,000 over nearly two years. (9/11 Commission terrorist staff financing monograph, page 144.)
Click to expand...

I recommend http://www.9/11myths.com for answers to most of the questions and claims commonly posed in 9/11 conspiracy videos and websites.
 
cornelius said:
hello Gravy,
thank you for the explain. i don't understand why assume it was an accident. of course we all would, but the people who know of warnings about something like this happen they dont think accident! do you think it was not enough time for this information from the people who know the warning?
Click to expand...
The security personell did not have the resource to evacuate the South Tower occuapants safely when debris from the North Tower would have been falling on people evacuating the South Tower plus people evacuating the lower floors of the North Tower.

Whether it was an accident or a terror attack they had no idea a 2nd plane was coming.
 
cornelius said:
hello Gravy,
thank you for the explain. i don't understand why assume it was an accident. of course we all would, but the people who know of warnings about something like this happen they dont think accident! do you think it was not enough time for this information from the people who know the warning?
Click to expand...
There was no specific warning of an imminent attack of this nature. Once it was known that the explosion was caused by an aircraft, the World Trade Center security desks and the Port Authority Police Department thought it was an accident.
 
Gravy said:
There was no specific warning of an imminent attack of this nature. Once it was known that the explosion was caused by an aircraft, the World Trade Center security desks and the Port Authority Police Department thought it was an accident.
Click to expand...
I am not sure everyone knew it was an aircraft or even an airliner. There was alot of confusion.
 
thanks everybody. but , gravy, i think there was warnings of quite specific , mentioning world trade center (this randy glass story). i think everybody who know about things like this need interviewd under oath! this is important and was not so in commission. i dont understand why. and i dont understand why usa has not yet in prison or killed osama bin laden. why? this is very strange, and i think very incompetent too. but this is another topic i know. sorry for confusion.
what is also not good about the commission that was is that first they did not start one, only after long time they did , after people complain. this should not be again like this. and this is also why i think more investigation is still need. because the one before looked like people dont want to investigate because scared get fired.
 
Welcome to the forums,

I think it is important to make some clarifications here...

In the realm of the military and intelligence gathering, "incompetence" is a very hard thing to quantify.

In the civilian world it is very straight forward. There is a great deal of control, and expectations are rather high. If a car company produces a vehicle that is dangerous, they are held accountable.

The same rigorous standards cannot be applied to the military and intelligence communities when dealing with national threats from abroad. Failure is an inherent part of the game.

Should the commanders as Pearl Harbor have been punished for failing to prevent the Japanese attack in 1941? The commanders of the Phillipines?

Should the AA gunners on warships that were hit be punished for failing to prevent dive bombers that sunk their vessels?

Of course not.

It this realm you strive as hard as you can with the resources you have to maintain your defenses. Sometimes you fail, because you were poorly equipped. Sometimes because of faulty intelligence. Sometimes you fail simply because the enemy were superior at that time and place.

It would be a mistake to punish those that failed to protect the United States on 9/11 and in the months and years leading up to it. They tried as best they could with the resources made available to them. You cannot ask any more.

Should the NORAD fighter pilots be court martialled for failing to intercept the airliners? Or perhaps we should court martial the staff at NEADS for failing to launch the fighters sooner? Maybe we should fire the FAA staff for notifying NEADS too late? What about firing the members of government who repeatedly over years stripped NORAD of its resources?

Why not go back and punish those who first created NORAD for failing to make their mission looking inwards as well as outwards.

As you can see, such a train of thought is ridiculous. What we do is we find out what went wrong, and we make sure it doesn't go wrong again. NORAD have more resources and better equipment. They now look out and in. The FAA and they have better communication. Intelligence agencies are now taking the threat of terrorism seriously.

-Gumboot
 
thank again for all answer.
i am from Poland, but at the moment i am in Switzerland (work...).
here in switzerland many many people believe the conspiracy story. also many intelligent people, which i think strange. there also was 2 building engineer of famous swiss university in newspaper saying WTC7 was controlled demolition. maybe this why so many believe. but i think because so many other say not so they are maybe just crazy!! i dont know if you know about this..?
anyway, sorry again for confusion. again another topic.
thanks to gumbot. i can see it is not easy to say how and where it was going wrong. and its not so easy to fire people! but still, i think more investigation needed. is it true that only less 10 million dollar spent on 911 report and 60 million dollar spent on clinton sex affair? i think this is strange and not good for the world. i hope you can understand. 911 is important for all of the world. clinton sex live not so much important.
thank again for your time. im happy for all information to show my crazy conspiracy co-worker !!
 
Welcome Cornelius.
I must say your spelling is very good for someone with such a pronounced Polish accent. I hope you stick around for a while and learn all you can from this site so you can educate your coworker.
 
thank you Brainache :) but i admit , for many words when im not so sure i use a little helper for spelling :) i became very quick to using it because i need so much here for german too :) someday my grammar will be better too
 
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