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9/11 dialogue recommendation

Oliver

Penultimate Amazing
Oliver
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
17,396
After i saw Loose Change and got interested into the
issue i was interested in seeing a dialogue between both
parties after learning about both sides of the story.

I also post at both sides - in here but also in forums that
support MIHOP and LIHOP. In fact it is not easy to talk
such controversial opinions but i would like to suggest to
keep the progress as polite as possible and to ignore
attempts to discredit you if you join the discussions.

Because i think that many in here are also interested in
what exactly happend that day, i would like to invite
you to join the discussions in a polite way.

Whatever you might think about Dylan or Russel, they
also supported the idea for a dialogue - which is a big
progress in my point of view:

"Jref And Loose Change Dialogue"
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=474

I know it isn´t easy.

- Oliver
 
Well, our old friend P'doh is over there, and lets this little bit fly:

I agree with russell about the leader. Without gravy they fall apart. If that guy is just a tour guide then im a dutch man.

I was banned because I put gravy on ignore. The admin at JREF can spin it how they like. Go and register there then put gravy on ignore and see what happens
Click to expand...

So, just to test this "theory", I'd like to formally announce that I'm putting Gravy on ignore, for some indeterminate period of time, just to see if I can survive (and not be banned!) without his "leadership".

So, Gravy, if you read this, it's been nice knowing you.....maybe I'll see you again some time.....

Anyone want to bet how long it takes for me to be baned?
 
I agree with russell about the leader. Without gravy they fall apart. If that guy is just a tour guide then im a dutch man.

I was banned because I put gravy on ignore. The admin at JREF can spin it how they like. Go and register there then put gravy on ignore and see what happens
Click to expand...

In a coupla weeks I plan on putting gravy on my turkey and mashed potatos.

rim shot.........ducks for flying objects.
 
*lol* Well, it was this kind of fingerpointing that
inspired me to this message. Even Russel knows
that PD´s behavior doesn´t help and he told him
to take the "high road". So should JREF´ers.
 
Crungy said:
In a coupla weeks I plan on putting gravy on my turkey and mashed potatos.

rim shot.........ducks for flying objects.
Click to expand...

I'm Canadian, we did that a few weeks ago. He It looked quite silly.....
 
Oliver said:
*lol* Well, it was this kind of fingerpointing that
inspired me to this message. Even Russel knows
that PD´s behavior doesn´t help and he told him
to take the "high road". So should JREF´ers.
Click to expand...

The problem with the high road is, if someone's arguments are ridiculous, they should probably be ridiculed. We've tried so many times to convince them with reasonable discussion, which has had absolutely no effect, that eventually we figure they're either just plain crazy, or are being deliberatey obtuse.

If you look at the evolution of the CTist ideas, you can see, they're getting more insane, not less, as time goes by. They've evolved from CD, to Hushaboom C4, to directional micronukes, to Star wars Beam Weapons. How do you have a "high road" debate with someone who expects us to seriously consider the effects of a Death Ray 'O Doom?

Oh, and nope, not banned yet. 30 minutes and counting......How long did it used to take to get banned at LC?
 
I'm P D'oh his sock. I'm also a Dutchman. Does that mean Gravy is indeed 'just' a tourguide?
 
Horatius said:
The problem with the high road is, if someone's arguments are ridiculous, they should probably be ridiculed. We've tried so many times to convince them with reasonable discussion, which has had absolutely no effect, that eventually we figure they're either just plain crazy, or are being deliberatey obtuse.

If you look at the evolution of the CTist ideas, you can see, they're getting more insane, not less, as time goes by. They've evolved from CD, to Hushaboom C4, to directional micronukes, to Star wars Beam Weapons. How do you have a "high road" debate with someone who expects us to seriously consider the effects of a Death Ray 'O Doom?

Oh, and nope, not banned yet. 30 minutes and counting......How long did it used to take to get banned at LC?
Click to expand...

Well at the old board you could get banned within some
minutes after posting the wrong questions. Personally
i try to ask questions that disproofs some theories that
don´t sum up in my mind without attacking a theory directly.

For example: This is what i posted because i dont under-
stand the scenario of an inside job:

controlled demolitions said:
The problem i have is this:

I try to be the conspirator right now and i´m planning
to destroy the WTC:

How can i execute my plans the best way? Let´s see:
the 93 bombing is still in peoples mind and people believe
it was AQ.

The best thing would be to blow it with bombs and
say AQ did it again. No one would doubt it.

But this is to easy. We need some planes for no
reason to attract the whole world and as much
cameras as possible to hide our secret inside job.

Then we crash no plane into nowhere at shanksville
and we say nevertheless it was a plane.

We also crash no plane into the pentagon but to
make it as authentic and believable as possible we
say it was a plane nevertheless.

Seriously: Who writes this stuff?

Nothing personal at all. I simply don´t get it.
Click to expand...


Added:

confession tape said:
Why is the quality of this video so bad? I´m sorry
but i don´t understand that argument. Do you think
Spielberg is taping the Osama-movies? Someone
taped it and it looks like he had a bad camera.

BTW: If the gov had faked this video, they would
make sure it DOES look like Osama, don´t you
agree?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Bell said:
I'm P D'oh his sock. I'm also a Dutchman. Does that mean Gravy is indeed 'just' a tourguide?
Click to expand...

You can't possibly be a PDo'h sock. You're not posting enough dismissive one-liners.
 
I'm sorry - you talked about having a dialogue, and posted this thread here to tell us about your idea - and the thread on the LC forum is filled with invective.

So I should think we're onto a non-starter.

I for one am not in favour of gratuitously insulting people from the other side. I will, however, point out the essential problem with having a dialogue with the Loose Change forum. It isn't even anything to do with the 9/11 conspiracy. But the fact is that that forum is filled with people who think that Loose Change is the greatest, most principled, highest integrity piece of investigative journalism since Watergate. It's impossible to argue to people who feel that this film has "opened their eyes" or "changed their life" is the worst kind of innuendo-laden trash journalism, the first edition of which was filled with so many howlers they've pretty much had to withdraw it.

Maybe we should just ignore it. Even the Discovery Channel itself has broadcast pro-UFO documentaries in its time. There isn't any arguing with people who are unable to see the fallacies therein.
 
I think it's a 'fencesitter' issue (that could have been so much worse had I not been paying attention) where those who have a slight knowledge that a conspiracy theory exists will go to LC and watch the video and believe it all. Without some dissent within the forum the 'fencesitter' will become the committed CT'er.

But the other way to counter that is to get the debunking sites high up on google search returns, so that the next time some uninformed soul goes in search of 9/11 information, they will have as much chance of hitting a debunking site as they will a 'tinfoil' site.

But the committed 'troofers' are pretty much a lost cause, despite their internal bickering. They have too much invested now, and Dylan's foray into "Hollywooooood"(1941) will only help to keep on board those who see the possibility of a little bit of glamour and money coming their way.

"Bollocks to the deaths of 3000 people, we wanna be famous!"
 
Well, at least he gave us the chance to challenge them over
there without all the bannings of sceptics like at the old forum.

I did so to bring up the osama confession tape and some other
issues that don´t sum up and i had no big problems as long i
act in a gentle way.
 
Oliver said:
And i say it is indeed possible to discuss the issue
as long you are polite and ignore personal attacks
from people like PD.

For example:

"Osama confession tape:"
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=153
Click to expand...

Yes, but how many bumps did it take for anyone to notice and comment on your post? And after all that discussion, there seemed to be very little movement in anyone's positions. They still just spout off the old lines that people here have debunked dozens of times.
 
But the Ct'ers are the ones asking questions, so let them make the effort to go somewhere where those questions may be answered i.e here.

As far as I am aware, not many people here have questions to ask about the CT...in fact we have precious few questions to ask about the official version (lol) ...... so, let's talk about chicks.

(I would like to apologise for my use of sexist language and assure the chicks on this site of my utmost respect....oooops :D )
 
Horatius said:
Yes, but how many bumps did it take for anyone to notice and comment on your post? And after all that discussion, there seemed to be very little movement in anyone's positions. They still just spout off the old lines that people here have debunked dozens of times.
Click to expand...

*lol* It´s just the beginning of a dialogue. But people are
not as much close-minded than someone might think. On
both sides.

My initial message is about a polite conversation. Off course
you don´t have to join the dialogue if it does not make sense
to you.

@uk_dave: There are "chicks" in here?
 
I find the new LC boards impossible and painful to read. Their new colorscheme is truly horrific. I wonder if Darat can come up with such a terrible scheme.
 
I'm not sure how you have a dialogue with a person who is mentally ill. I find that many CTists demonstrate symptoms of psychiatric illnesses. There are borderline personalities, narcisists and full-blown psychotics. I mean, watching a plane hit a building and then disbelieving that a plane hit a building is just not healthy.

There is no ability to reason with a person whose organ of reason is defective.

Perhaps if there were some way to vet some of these people, a conversation could be possible. There are some who are simply wrong. Otherwise, it will be a futile and mutually frustrating experience.
 
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