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2008 -- Dem do's and dont's

hgc

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
15,892
Don't nominate Hillary Clinton. I know she is popular in the party, but too much of America hates her guts. Frankly she is charismatically challenged to the point of making Kerry look Clintonian (the other Clinton). This choice would lead to disaster.

Do nominate John Edwards. A real liberal who won't hide from it, but also appeals to middle America. Very charismatic and connects to people.

I don't know who else may be available, but they'll start to come out of the woodwork in January '07. Obama will be too young still.
 
What Kerry-Edwards screwed up on was the bible belt and it was the bible belt states like Kansas, Ohio, Kentucky and others who put it over the top for Bush by so many votes. Although its his home state, even Texas is a bible belt state, with many areas where even whisky is illegal to sell or drink.

Any president who talks to god and god talks back can do no wrong, and god talks through him, he was not only not the anti-Christ, he was the last scion. Michael Moore should've figured that out.

My advice for the democrats in 2008 is to start telling people you pray, talk to god and whatever you have done is because god wanted it. It works.
 
hgc said:
Don't nominate Hillary Clinton. I know she is popular in the party, but too much of America hates her guts. Frankly she is charismatically challenged to the point of making Kerry look Clintonian (the other Clinton). This choice would lead to disaster.

Hillary should try to become Minority Leader since Daschle's out. She'd be a good one, though she may be too junior for the position.

Edwards is going to have a hard time running for President. How will he stay in the public eye for the next four years?

I agree (if this was your point) that if the Democrats want to capture the White House they're going to need to run someone from the South.

Clinton, Carter, and Johnson would all agree, no doubt.
 
materia3 said:

My advice for the democrats in 2008 is to start telling people you pray, talk to god and whatever you have done is because god wanted it. It works.

But then the entire world will think that the whole of the US has gone insane.
 
Do fight the issue on real issues like education and national debt.

Don't associate with the likes of Michael Moore, or try and win purely on 'George W Bush thinks Disneyland is a country' style personal abuse.
 
Re: Re: 2008 -- Dem do's and dont's

aerocontrols said:
Hillary should try to become Minority Leader since Daschle's out. She'd be a good one, though she may be too junior for the position.
I don't have any inside scoop, but I'd be willing to bet that her colleagues there would not want to boost her standing thusly. They probably already think of her as having enough standing out of the starting gate, and not in need of their assistance by elevating her. Frankly I have no idea if she's personally liked within the Democratic caucus. I hear that she's really good at her job vis-a-vis the attention to detail/hard work angle. But frankly as a public voice, she's like nails on a blackboard.
Edwards is going to have a hard time running for President. How will he stay in the public eye for the next four years?
Ahem. By running for president. He started running this last time in 2001. I have a feeling that he's known ever since he ran for Senate in 1998 exactly what he's wanted to do.
I agree (if this was your point) that if the Democrats want to capture the White House they're going to need to run someone from the South.

Clinton, Carter, and Johnson would all agree, no doubt.
Well, it could be the midwest or west, but it can't be another northeasterner. I heard some Republican yahoo around the office last week squawking about "Kerry, that Massechusetts tax-and-spend liberal." I find it hard to believe that that old chestnut has currency in the age of Bush profligacy. But then I find it hard to believe that Bush was reelected.
 
- 2008? Feh, I'm officially a cynic. By that time the only question will be "who can we nominate that's most like W?"

- I'm betting it will be Jeb. Ten cyberbucks says it's Jeb. Ten more says the ignorant, buck-toothed masses in all those red states eat it up like peanut butter and we get an unofficial royal family of dumb-ass right wing nutters.
 
Well, you always have the problem of the record of votes with a Senator. People have an annoying tendency to look closely at that record, and if it's a long one there's bound to be trouble.

Don't ever say, "I'm voting for anybody but ____________". That scheme apparently doesn't hold up too well.

Edwards looked pretty bad at the concession speech, imo. Kerry appeared to contradict him and put him in his place. I think Edwards is already off to a bad start if he intends to run for anything else.

EDIT: Introducing Edwards last night as "The next Vice President of the United States" looked pretty bad too, since all he did was come out to say they would fight on for one more day.
 
AtheistArchon said:
- 2008? Feh, I'm officially a cynic. By that time the only question will be "who can we nominate that's most like W?"

- I'm betting it will be Jeb. Ten cyberbucks says it's Jeb. Ten more says the ignorant, buck-toothed masses in all those red states eat it up like peanut butter and we get an unofficial royal family of dumb-ass right wing nutters.
Thing about Jeb is that he ain't dumb like his big brother. Is that better or worse? I don't know.
 
AWPrime said:
But then the entire world will think that the whole of the US has gone insane.

So you think they don´t already think so? :)

Sorry, bad joke. In fact, you´re right. At least, I know I would think so.
 
I already think that a large part of them is insane and 1inC isn't helping any.
 
Re: Re: 2008 -- Dem do's and dont's

aerocontrols said:
Edwards is going to have a hard time running for President. How will he stay in the public eye for the next four years?
For starters:

1. Start a War on Abortion, consisting of full, accurate, and honest sex education, greater access to birth control, more funding for foreign agencies that seek to reduce abortions by providing training and access to alternative methods of birth control. All while supporting a woman's right to choose. Sieze the moral high ground in the abortion debate. Highlight the hypocisy of the right on this issue.

2. Demand more funding for protective gear and other equipment to protect the lives of American troops. Hang the cost, but get behind any weapons systems that lessen the exposure of American troops.

3. Sponsor a law requiring the president to provide written guidelines for the treatment military prisoners any time the Geneva Convention is not being applied to them. Specifically declare that they cannot be prosecuted if they are following these guidelines.

4. Develop a plan for peace in the Middle East. While emphasizing our commitment to Israel's security, develop closer ties to the Palestinians, including non-conditional aid. Counter every provocative act by either side with expanded aid to the other. Tirelessly promote the idea that the war on terror will never be won until substantial progress is made on this issue. Because we are so closely allied with Israel, we may have to develop a partnership with a more neutral third party to promote the plan.

5. Promote a complete energy policy that includes improving efficiencies and reducing demand as well as improving supplies. Emphasize the business opportunities beyond the supply side and the importance of making America a leader in this area. Include every american in energy policy, not just energy producers.

6. Get behind the constitutional amendment defining marriage, but insist it also include explicit protection against spousal abuse.

7. Insist the president explicitly state the reasons, goals, and end points before voting to authorize military actions.

8. Drop the national health plan nonsense. Instead, work on programs to reduce the cost of health services. Promote new technologies and research to improve the quality of health care. A bit of a balancing act, since part of the rising cost is due to the expanding technologies... Stirke a compromise on stem cell research by allowing funding for the research as long as federal dollars are not used in creating or acquiring the stem cells.
 
Alas, I don't see Edwards, or any democrat, having the vision and courage to do half of the above.
 
Re: Re: Re: 2008 -- Dem do's and dont's

patnray said:
8. Drop the national health plan nonsense. Instead, work on programs to reduce the cost of health services. Promote new technologies and research to improve the quality of health care. A bit of a balancing act, since part of the rising cost is due to the expanding technologies... Stirke a compromise on stem cell research by allowing funding for the research as long as federal dollars are not used in creating or acquiring the stem cells.
Maybe you don't work in healthcare. I do. The problem is only partially technology, and it's only tangentially addressed by tort reform. There are two main problems that no one wants to address. #1, new procedures are being created all the time to make those last 5 minutes, or 5 days, or whatever, longer. Procedures like chopping off the bottom half of your lungs to make emphysema kill you more slowly. These procedures are very expensive.#2, doctors are in major short supply. Corollaries to these are the Baby Bulge getting ready to squeeze itself through our system as old people, who need healthcare the most, and furthermore as old people who frankly have taken really lousy care of themselves vis-a-vis smoking, drinking, and generally living it up. Reference point #1 to see where I'm leading with that.

People who are terrified of national healthcare try to point out its "failures" in other countries but are apparently incapable of turning their eyes inward to watch the collapse of our own. Hospitals are by their very code of ethics prohibited from turning away sick people. Most of the uninsured turn up at the emergency room to be treated. This is causing a cascade of emergency room closures as hospitals burn their resources on people who can't pay. As the number of uninsured grows, something which the election of Bush is just going to excaberate, more and more pressure is going to be put on these facilities until they simply collapse. Hospitals will go bankrupt (they already are). Major illnesses will run wild through the population. What will probably do it in will be an epidemic of something like the flu.

The sensible thing to do would be to create a government program for catastrophic insurance, and take those costs out of the pool of the private insured. Anything over $7,000, or some reasonable threshold, would be covered under this program. Secondly, businesses should be ever-so-gently discouraged from offering insurance benefits anymore, unless they are transferable in some way. This will force insurance companies to offer real free-market plans for sub-catastrophic coverage at competitive prices. Because what we have right now is neither free nor a market.

However, I doubt such a plan will be implemented, especially since Kerry advocated something similar. Instead, we'll run along until we bankrupt our system, and in a major political tidal wave we will introduce a system cloned wholesale from Canada's. Libertarians and conservatives will scream and gnash their teeth, and in 10 years we'll all be used to long waiting lists and rationed healthcare (as if we don't have them now) and no out-of-pocket costs, deductibles, or other horsesh*t.

So if we wanted to ensure the rise of socialized medicine in the US, we couldn't have chosen a better course than to put the most clueless man on the planet in charge of our nation when our private system was at its maximum distress.
 
Edwards is a lightweight. Stay away from Edwards. Far away from Edwards. Don't even let him stump for you.

Do look at Wesley Clark.
 
Try to find a fiscal conservative who has a southern accent and isn't a womanizer. Good Luck. May the Schwartz be with you.

Perhaps Bob Dylan's song Positively 4th Street (1965) best expresses the majority voter's view of the Democrat party in 2004:

You got a lotta nerve
To say you are my friend
When I was down
You just stood there grinning


You got a lotta nerve
To say you got a helping hand to lend
You just want to be on
The side that's winning


You say I let you down
You know it's not like that
If you're so hurt
Why then don't you show it

You say you lost your faith
But that's not where it's at
You had no faith to lose
And you know it


I know the reason
That you talk behind my back
I used to be among the crowd
You're in with


Do you take me for such a fool
To think I'd make contact
With the one who tries to hide
What he don't know to begin with

You see me on the street
You always act surprised
You say, "How are you?" "Good luck"
But you don't mean it

When you know as well as me
You'd rather see me paralyzed
Why don't you just come out once
And scream it


No, I do not feel that good
When I see the heartbreaks you embrace
If I was a master thief
Perhaps I'd rob them

And now I know you're dissatisfied
With your position and your place
Don't you understand
It's not my problem


I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment
I could be you

Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You'd know what a drag it is
To see you
 
hgc said:
Do nominate John Edwards. A real liberal who won't hide from it, but also appeals to middle America. Very charismatic and connects to people.

I wonder if his background as a scum sucking bottom feeder, er, I mean a trial lawyer will be a detriment to him. I know the issue wasn't really played up in the last election compared to Kerry's "flip flops", but it would provide a prime target for a smear campaign if he were to become a presidential candidate.

(and I did use 'bottom feeder' as an example of how he might end up getting portrayed, rather than the way he really is.)
 
hgc said:
Thing about Jeb is that he ain't dumb like his big brother. Is that better or worse? I don't know.

The things that Jeb has done to Florida, I'd like to see him as ambassador to the Friendly Islands, or something else that doesn't matter.
 
Re: Re: Re: 2008 -- Dem do's and dont's

patnray said:

4. Develop a plan for peace in the Middle East. While emphasizing our commitment to Israel's security, develop closer ties to the Palestinians, including non-conditional aid. Counter every provocative act by either side with expanded aid to the other.
You don't have that much money.:p
 
Maybe nominate Ted Rall? He looks like just the sort of person to reach out and bring voters back to the fold:

"...So our guy lost the election. Why shouldn't those of us on the coasts feel superior? We eat better, travel more, dress better, watch cooler movies, earn better salaries, meet more interesting people, listen to better music and know more about what's going on in the world. If you voted for Bush, we accept that we have to share the country with you. We're adjusting to the possibility that there may be more of you than there are of us. But don't demand our respect. You lost it on November 2."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...0041110/cm_ucru/confessionsofaculturalelitist
 

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