|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#1 | |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
Doing the least to save your life...
My paper. It's not written as well as it could have been. It's not as scientific, in that it does not go point by point through alternative medicines and treatments, as it could have been. It's not very polite at times. It's my story, and it's how I feel about those that would offer me alternative medicine in lieu of proper medical treatments for my cancer. Read at your leisure. I hope you enjoy it. There's some great pictures of my spine in there, both before the surgery and after. I'll quote a little here:
Quote:
Sorry about that. Cheers. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,007
|
I read it and I have nothing negative to say about it so I will say nothing at all.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Tea-Time toad
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,516
|
![]() Thanks for that Fowlsound, it said all of the things I wanted to say to the rule 8's who tried (successfully unfortunately) to push SCAM onto my sister when she had cancer. Unfortunately at that time I was too young (and emotional) to really articulate what I wanted to say, so i spent a lot of time very frustrated, except on the one occasion when I did actually resort to physical violence. My youth and emotional stat providing a pretty good shield from serious repercussions. I'm, none too proud of what I did, but I have to admit, it felt good. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Canis Doctorius
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,786
|
Yowza fowldood,
I had a suspicion those were implants you either had or currently have. I guess things could be worse. Damn.. Not sure what to say. I read your story and of course you are preaching to the choir here so to speak but right on. I will pray to FSM that you continue to win all your battles. |
__________________
![]() |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
![]() Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,009
|
Good luck to you FS. You have a quiet steady courage about you and I am inspired by it. You'll be missed at TAM. Get better soon!
-z |
__________________
"Man, if Socrates thought like Rick, I don't think Socrates would have ever written a word." - "Red" (@ Red Pill Philosophy FB page) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Adult human female
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 50,672
|
|
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Biomechanoid
Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Texas (aka SOMD)
Posts: 32,491
|
Dude...um...dude. No, really, Dude.
ETA: The MRIs of the spine "before" I sat ![]() |
__________________
-Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Munroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,438
|
My thoughts are with you, Fowlsound. No excuses for TAM5, okay?
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Apathetic Agnostic
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,583
|
Jumpin' Jeebus!!
The pics of your spine made me reach for a handfull of Advil just for the sympathy pain. I publicly bow before you in recognition of your courage. I hope I'd show the same were I in your shoes. Please pardon me if I also fervently hope I never have the chance to find out. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 664
|
Well said, fowlshound.
I wouldn’t worry about it not being a scientific document, or that there’s some bad language in it – it’s from the heart, and that’s what really gets the point across. Will it be staying up on that URL? I’d like to link to it if I may. I’m rooting for you too. Well I will be unless you slag Newcastle Utd off again. ![]() |
__________________
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 664
|
Thanks fowlshound,
I'll save a copy and put it on my server then I'll take the bandwidth hit. I'll use it "as is". Cheers, John |
__________________
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 664
|
http://www.skeptics.org.uk/documents/SpinePaper.pdf
I've put it up there. Anyone can link to it or copy it from there - I have the bandwith, no problem. |
__________________
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 664
|
Yes, I'm definitely going to make something of it. It will be featured on the site.
|
__________________
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,522
|
Sounds like you've had a real "interesting" life there fowl, I hope it gets a lot less interesting in 06. Keep up the writing, maybe somebody else out there with similar problems to you will read it and get something positive from it.
My crystal balls tell me you've got lots of TAMS in front of you. ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
Perfectly Poisonous Person
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wacky Washington Way Out West
Posts: 4,432
|
Isn't there a curse that goes "May you have an interesting life"?
Great paper, fowlsound... and I shall think good thoughts for you in the new years. |
__________________
I used to be intelligent... but then I had kids "HCN, I hate you!" ( so sayeth Deetee at http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1077344 )... What I get for linking to http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/ ![]() |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,522
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#21 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,109
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#22 |
LogMu
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,050
|
Hey fowl... Beautifully and powerfully written. I'm going to print this out and give it to a friend of mine who's father is very ill and has been sucked in by some fraudulent peddlers of alternative treatment.
Thank you. |
__________________
how to spell definitely evolution is not just a theory "Far from terminating the vicious regress, God aggravates it with a vengeance." -- Richard Dawkins |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#23 |
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 116
|
This question leaked into another thread from this one, so I brought it back here.
Well I guess I would be if I had experienced all that. fowlsound, I read your paper with interest. What do you think would have happened if you had been treated using alternative medicine at any point? How does your anger serve you? Does it protect you from using bogus treatments? How in control of your life do you feel? I wish you a full recovery. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#24 |
Perfectly Poisonous Person
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wacky Washington Way Out West
Posts: 4,432
|
|
__________________
I used to be intelligent... but then I had kids "HCN, I hate you!" ( so sayeth Deetee at http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1077344 )... What I get for linking to http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/ ![]() |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#25 |
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 116
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#26 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#27 |
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,041
|
Thanks for that, Fowlsound... I was wondering how I could link it over at the skepchick.org site but Mr Jackson (thanks!) said he'd put it up and that's brilliant. I have a few people in mind who should definitely read it.
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#28 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,279
|
Damn, FS....
Thanks for that. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#29 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#30 |
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 116
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#31 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#32 |
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 116
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#33 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
love, I am trying to decide whether you are honest in this line of questioning or if you are trolling. Ok let's put it this way: You have multiple myeloma. Do you attempt to shrink your many tumors using, say, Revlimid, which is tested and shown to have a high effective rate in shrinking tumors (well over 85%) or would you take the sugar pill (20%?) If you choose placebo you are worthy of a Darwin Award. Do you have a point here, or are you just trolling? ETA: show me one placebo that puts back the vertabrae destroyed by the tumor I had in my spine. Are you honestly suggesting that homeopathy could have cured that condition? Did you even read the paper, or are you talking out of your rear? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#34 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,438
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#35 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#36 |
Canis Doctorius
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,786
|
Quote:
|
__________________
![]() |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#37 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 577
|
Yes, clearly employing multiple placebo effects is the future of medicine...
So if you were diagnosed with cancer, you would: a.) take a bunch of Vitamin C b.) pray like the dickens c.) wear a healing crystal around your neck d.) wear a copper bracelet while lying on a mattress filled with tiny magnets e.) and gulp handfulls of sugarpills f.) (insert other hokey bunch of jackalope crap here) If so, well.... good luck with that. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#38 |
Student
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 41
|
In the awful event that you're ever diagnosed with cancer, make sure to keep a detailed log and let us know how sampling from the placebo dessert tray works out for you.
It's funny that for thousands of years humanity had nothing but placebos with which to treat their diseases. They had placebos coming out the wazoo. A cornucopia of placebos of many different shapes, sizes, and styles. Yet they lived dramatically shorter lives overall and died much more rapidly when they were diagnosed with diseases. I wonder why that is? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#39 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,587
|
thanks FS. That is an excellent piece. It will come in handy.
Love's comments are exactly why your paper is needed. Thank you again. |
__________________
Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#40 |
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 116
|
Although I may be coming from a very different viewpoint to you, and certainly had very different experiences, I am interested in what you think and feel. Maybe my interest is that I used to be a very angry person myself. And maybe also because I still feel some anger towards doctors.
Quote:
I do use homeopathy. Last time I had dental pain, for example, I treated myself using a homeopathic remedy. I guess I am just one of those 20%. Perhaps I am extra suggestible.
Quote:
![]()
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In the end, I believe people heal when they take responsibility for their own health.
Quote:
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
|
|