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#41 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 39,348
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There's an amusing column about Behe's testimony by Mike Argento.
Some more of Argento's columns are linked from the ACLUPA blog. |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#42 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,279
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Argh! I have become a transcript junky! I need my fix!
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#43 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,658
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#44 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 39,348
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#45 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,279
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#46 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,279
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...but it is mere methadone...I need my transcripts...
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#47 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 130
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For deeper scientific insights into ID Creationism and the Dover case, try The Panda´s Thumb. Granted, the above column is fun to read, and these IDC clowns get all the ridicule they deserve.
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"Where there´s a will, there´s a lawyer" - Kinky Friedman "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture" - Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA “We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further” - Richard Dawkins "Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes." "Scientist" is a profession. Science is a method. "Scientism" is neither a political ideology, nor a religion. |
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#48 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 117,320
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Could someone get a list of all these good links together so I can add them to the box on the forum homepage? - TIA
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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#49 |
![]() Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,265
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Witness says God isn't only possible designer
Quote:
Anyway, this is really why I linked the article:
Quote:
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"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
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#50 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,248
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Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously. |
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#51 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,771
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Being offended by someone questioning your beliefs is a sign that you should be questioning them. In the beginning there was nothing. And the Lord said "Let There Be Light!" And still there was nothing, but at least now you could see it. |
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#52 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,462
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I think the plaintiffs should call Hovind to the stand.
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#53 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,658
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#54 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 39,348
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__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#55 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,420
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#56 |
Atheistic Aesir
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 806
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![]() I want to known on which day did God created Suzy, since she appears to be becoming intelligently designed into a hamster. And if YOU believe in Evolution instead of Jesus (and how in Chickworld could you believe in both?) you'll end up in hell. So thats almost everyone I've ever known, most of whom are Christians, in Hell. What a nice loving religion Chick has, the worship of the appeal to fear. ![]() |
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Nothing to see here "Then we didn't evolve! The system has been feeding us THE BIG LIE!" -Jack T Chick "Educators are actually evil for refusing to teach students Nature's 4 World Time Cube." -Gene Ray "Leo Jean has attained the highest spiritual status of any person on Earth. His spirit is one of the oldest and most powerful in the universe, and is the most powerful on Earth." -Leo Jean |
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#57 |
Muse
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Denmark, yo
Posts: 629
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#58 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,006
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#59 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 117,320
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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#60 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 117,320
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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#61 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478
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From the New Scientist article (Mojo's link above) -
Talking about Behe's cross examination - "“You've got to admire the guy. It’s Daniel in the lion’s den,” says Robert Slade, a local retiree who has been attending the trial because he is interested in science. "But I can’t believe he teaches a college biology class."" Sorry, Mr. Slade, I just cannot admire Behe. |
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#62 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,092
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Well, it's a fine line between courage and stupidity, and I think I know which side Behe's on. Still, I think Mr. Slade's incredulity concerning Behe's academic chops is of more import to this case than his admiration of Behe's guts.
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"Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He’d been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason, and was now a post-graduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me." - Terry Pratchett, Jingo ![]() ![]() |
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#63 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478
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Agreed. Personally I read into Mr. Slade's comments that possibly the only thing he admired about Behe was his guts.
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#64 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,064
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#65 |
Self-Propelled Road Hazard
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 418
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Okay, I think I'm officially in "transcript withdrawl". These short articles aren't doing it for me anymore.
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#66 |
Copper Alloy Canid
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,993
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I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts. If he had them, he'd come up with a testable ID hypothesis and test it.
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Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel |
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#67 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 42,371
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#68 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478
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#69 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,766
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"And this is the theory of intelligent design, which emerges from this end."
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#71 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478
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ACLUPA blog
A "creationist science" text book becomes an "intelligent design" textbook Dover trial transcripts (Not yet updated with days 7, 8 and 9) Audio analysis Mike Argento column Mike Argento column 2 New Scientist column Witness says God isn't only possible designer How's that? |
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#72 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 117,320
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Great thanks
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__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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#73 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 39,348
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__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#74 |
Self-Propelled Road Hazard
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 418
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#75 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,064
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Arrgah! I can't stand it when people try claiming that science and religious faith are compatible. They're nothing of the sort, which is precisely why it's inappropriate to teach religious doctrines in a science class.
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#76 |
Refusing to be confused by facts
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 879
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I'm not a scientist, but I do look like one.
In glancing through Behe's testimony, nuch is made of the fact that biological structures are referred to as machines, and that this is not a metaphor, but a definition of the structure. Behe then says that because it is a machine, that means it's designed. If I toss a loose deck of cards into a corner, one or more of the cards may be propped against the wall. That propped card is an inclined plane, a simple machine. Would Behe's "inductive reasoning" lead him to believe that it was designed, or would he concede that a machine can be produced through random processes? The other point I'd like to make is about the "simple test" that neither side will do: take a bacteria with no flagellum and, over the course of a couple of years, apply selective pressures over 10,000 generations. If the bacteria develop flagella, that would, according to the article, "prove" evolution. To me, this a very poorly designed test that would prove nothing to either side. Outcome 1: No flagellum. ID: See? God/Designer did it. Evolutionist: What made us think we could apply just the right combination of selective pressures to produce the predetermined outcome? This is stupid! It proves nothing. Outcome 2: Flagellum. ID: See? God/Designer did it. Evolutionist: Wow! I did it! Man, I hope someone else is able to read my notes and replicate this sucker! |
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"Humanity is slipping into the void of ignorance while you cheer and wave." - Tirdun, in reference to geggy and the 9/11 conspiracy theorists |
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#77 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,098
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http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/new...10_18_2005.asp
please read the last paragraph carefully... This is really, really troubling. Frightening, even... science standing in the way of an education? |
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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#78 |
King of the Pod People
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,649
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#79 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,098
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One thing that bothers me about all the legal wrangling is that logic goes out the window.
The "Watchmaker" bit about assuming a designer bothers me. If I see an inanimate mechanism, yes, I assume a designer. A Chevy small block canot reproduce, or we'd all be up to our ears in them. some things-An arch, for example, I can ascribe to natural processes-the Desert Southwest is full of the bloody things. But the anthropomorphization (Huh?) of watches and such by comparing them to living beings escapes me. Maybe I'm not logical enough? |
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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#80 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,448
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I feel the same way about mousetraps. The most damning aspect of the mousetrap as a useful analogy is the fact that it requires a human (or a clever orangutan, perhaps) to set it and bait it in order for it to have any capability whatsoever for trapping mice. How can this be compared to a living thing?
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