Psychics and Missing People - Page 14

Zoinked168 · 2nd April 2006, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by delphi_ote

Take the test and use the money to feed starving children. Prove to the world and all the skeptics once and for all that psychic powers are real. Win the Nobel Prize and feed more starving children. Start a revolution in science and alter the course of history.

One simple test is all it would take.

I'll prove that this is the real deal. But feeding starving children for a day isn't going to make a big impact is it? I'd sooner take the money, and live life as I do now, and help solve the bigger problems of the world. But for now, one small step at a time aye?

Kelly · 2nd April 2006, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Zoinked168

Kelly, Before I can answer your valid questions, I have one for you. What is a "normal ability"? The whole concept behind ESP is that everyone could potentially tap into this unused resource in our brain. This is why I suggest you try it yourself.

I have briefly talked about locating people with my past mentor sometime ago now. I have some rough idea where to start but even with a natural ability, it is useless without a good technique. Everything connected to humans has evolved and improved over time, even thinking and logic for example. It would require a lot of my time to develop this independently. This is one skill out of dozens of known phenomena, and there are still limitless of unknown ones too yet to be developed. If you have looked into energy practices such as Qi-Gong you will notice that the technique has practically not evolved at all since it was established and there is only "one way of doing it", this I believe to be false not to question and improve upon something which dates back thousands of years.

I really hope you can see my view-point on this and see if it makes a little sense.

I hope that once I have established myself as genuine you will take my words more to heart. Until then, take it as you will. I force feed no one. I only ask for everyone and anyone who takes an interest in ESP to experiment for themselves before they apply straight-up knock'em down approach. Perhaps I am naive in my belief's, but regardless I see the practicalities and possible usages for the world we live in today.

I'm off to bed now. I hope that this has partly answered your questions. I will elaborate and answer any more questions you may have when I am able too

You need to start your own thread with this. You did not answer any of my questions, but instead posed new ones which are off topic for this subject matter. Please be considerate and not hijack this thread with your desired topic.

Dr Adequate · 2nd April 2006, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Zoinked168

This term is coined too loosely for start and what I do know is that I deal with the manipulation of quantimbioelectromagnetic energy.

Really? Now my Magical Superpowers are caused by radiotelebiomagnoelectric radiation ... which makes my Magic Superpowers even more scientific than yours.

And, alas, equally undemonstrable.

Quote:

I have nothing to prove but to myself. I hope people will understand that one day ... This is bigger than the material world...doesn't anyone see that yet?!

Since apparently you refuse to demonstrate your supposed powers to the waiting world, it seems no-one's ever going to "see" or "understand" anything.

Put up or shut up.

Quote:

I have no intentions of being a lab rat for the rest of my life.

You should consider it. Muridae is a step up from Mustelidae.

ysabella · 2nd April 2006, 06:12 PM

Dr.Adequate, don't make my avatar come after you.

meg · 2nd April 2006, 07:01 PM

Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you.

Can we look at what you just did?

You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright.

Here's something I dare you to do.

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?"

"Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?"

For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo.

I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up.

On a different thread.

RSLancastr · 2nd April 2006, 08:15 PM

kelly, i think the jokes about psychics is a bad idea.

Helianthus · 2nd April 2006, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by meg

Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you.

Can we look at what you just did?

You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright.

Here's something I dare you to do.

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?"

"Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?"

For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo.

I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up.

On a different thread.

Hey Zoe,
I'm agreeing with Meg wholeheartedly, in a kind way, on all of this and if you look at my earliest posts you'll know that I have been fully open about being a believer. You appear to be very well meaning but I think you need to examine yourself clearly and take her criticisms as constructive (and kind).

Kelly · 2nd April 2006, 08:56 PM

Hey Zoe,

When you return, please be sure to start your own thread as strongly suggested. I would still like to know the answers to my previous questions.

RL: I'm not going to do a post with psychic jokes. While generic psychic jokes don't bother me, they might bother other people. Not only that, but I do think a post like that would detract from the seriousness of the subject matter. I was at a low when I asked that, but sense is prevailing now.

All: I just love Meg, and especially when she gets riled up. The thing about Meg is, that even though angered, she still is dead on in her reasoning. It's that mom in her.

Kelly

meg · 2nd April 2006, 09:16 PM

Aw..

I love you too, Kelly

delphi_ote · 2nd April 2006, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by meg

Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you.

Can we look at what you just did?

You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright.

Here's something I dare you to do.

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?"

"Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?"

For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo.

I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up.

On a different thread.

tonyyouens · 3rd April 2006, 05:14 AM

I've just put this on my own site but although it's about the UK it might be worth adding it here. After reading about yet another psychic being called in by a family whose son is missing I wrote to the Metropolitan Police and asked if they could confirm the use of psychics. Their reply was interesting...

"Dear Mr Youens

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the use of psychics by the police, which has been forwarded to me by our Public Access Office. We have conducted a search of our indexes but have been unable to identify any relevant records relating to any official use of psychics."

They did add...

"There is, however, a historical case where this played a major part."

I've begun looking at this case but early days yet.

Tony Youens

Kelly · 3rd April 2006, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by tonyyouens

I've just put this on my own site but although it's about the UK it might be worth adding it here. After reading about yet another psychic being called in by a family whose son is missing I wrote to the Metropolitan Police and asked if they could confirm the use of psychics. Their reply was interesting...

"Dear Mr Youens

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the use of psychics by the police, which has been forwarded to me by our Public Access Office. We have conducted a search of our indexes but have been unable to identify any relevant records relating to any official use of psychics."

They did add...

"There is, however, a historical case where this played a major part."

I've begun looking at this case but early days yet.

Tony Youens

Hi Tony,

Thank you for the link.

Let us know what happens with your research on that case. I checked out your summary, and it looks like it's "business as usual" with the psychic claims of aiding police.
(sigh)

Take care,
Kelly

Kelly · 3rd April 2006, 11:58 AM

A comment about the blog series received via email from a woman who does not have a missing person in her life, and who was also neutral on the subject beforehand:

"Kelly I am blown away with your recent postings. I wish this series could post on every site that mentions missing people. Everyone needs to read this series. It is such an important education for those of us who don't know the details of these missing people cases. The pain just jumps off the pages and gets you thinking about the real harm caused by psychics. I never had a clue what the harm was in hearing these people out until I read this series of postings. I can say now that I am outraged by shows that are doing these readings on TV -- it is sick.

I'm sure it was very difficult to post things that brought back your own suffering but bless you for doing it. I've got such insight that I didn't have before. Thank you so much for your postings."

meg · 3rd April 2006, 12:06 PM

Wow. That's awesome, Kelly! Great work on the blog. It looks like you're really reaching people with it.

John Jackson · 3rd April 2006, 12:12 PM

Again this is in the UK, but we've collected responses from police forces here regarding psychics' claims of 'helping the police'.

See: http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=57.0

The replies speak for themselves.

tonyyouens · 3rd April 2006, 12:21 PM

That's excellent John. I'll stick in a link to that as well.

Tony

delphi_ote · 3rd April 2006, 12:26 PM

KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic.

If you even visit at the next TAM, you'll receive a hero's welcome (I for one volunteer to carry you through the door of the casino yelling "HUZZAH FOR KELLYJ!")

Dr Adequate · 3rd April 2006, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by tonyyouens

That's excellent John. I'll stick in a link to that as well.

Tony

Also linked in [swiki]Psychic Detectives[/swiki]

Very nice. Are there any Americans who'd like to do something similar?

TY --- [swiki]Psychic Detectives[/swiki] links to some of your articles --- are there any other relevant ones we've missed?

tonyyouens · 3rd April 2006, 01:47 PM

Okay SkepticWiki link put in as well.

The main links on my site other than Dennis McKenzie and the current commentary are;

The Christine Holohan case which was much debated on the JREF forum at one time.
http://www.tonyyouens.com/ruislip_murder.htm

and a commentary 'The unpleasant world of the psychic detective' at:
http://www.tonyyouens.com/commentary.htm#detectives
which deals with the case of Lisa Dorrian. I was contacted by the psychic in question who thought my tone a little abrasive. I told him he would be of no use and indeed he wasn't.

I think this is a perfect opportunity for us all to work together. A challenge maybe?

Kind regards to all.

Tony

Kelly · 3rd April 2006, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by delphi_ote

KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic.

If you even visit at the next TAM, you'll receive a hero's welcome (I for one volunteer to carry you through the door of the casino yelling "HUZZAH FOR KELLYJ!")

Hello Delphi_ote,

Early on in the thread, there is some talk about me attending TAM on a scholarship and giving a report. I believe Luke T. initiated this discussion. I'm not the greatest public speaker, but I would be happy to do this if the foundation wishes.

I hope you are a robust fellow, and have decent medical coverage, as I am not a petite little thing.

Your post made me smile. Thank you!

Kelly

meg · 3rd April 2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by tonyyouens

I think this is a perfect opportunity for us all to work together. A challenge maybe?

I'll help any way I can. What do you have in mind, Tony?

Meg

tonyyouens · 3rd April 2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

I'll help any way I can. What do you have in mind, Tony?

To be honest I haven't given it much thought. I was thinking maybe those of us in the UK might be able to offer a join challenge on various websites challenging psychics to come up with evidence that they a) have been asked to assist by the police and b) the information helped solve the crime. I wasn't thinking of offering a cash challenge just asking for some kind of proof.

Anyway something like that - but as I say I haven't really thought about it. Any suggestions?

Tony

Kelly · 3rd April 2006, 02:27 PM

Perhaps we could initiate something from the US via the in progress Psychic Predators site.

Claus? Fowlsound? What say you?

We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site.

tonyyouens · 3rd April 2006, 02:38 PM

Quote:

We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site.

I doubt that we would get many UK psychics actually contact us but certainly we should be ready to follow up if needed.

I don't know if there's anyone here from the Irish Skeptics Society but they could join in too. Probably it would be a good idea to see a show of hands before we go much further.

I'm in!

Kelly · 3rd April 2006, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by tonyyouens

I doubt that we would get many UK psychics actually contact us but certainly we should be ready to follow up if needed.

I don't know if there's anyone here from the Irish Skeptics Society but they could join in too. Probably it would be a good idea to see a show of hands before we go much further.

I'm in!

I doubt that we would get a large number of submissions here either, as they would have to submit:

A) Their true identity and contact info
B) Information about how they assisted with a specific case and the outcome of the information and "help" they provided
AND
C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, all of which would be verified

Gr8wight · 3rd April 2006, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by KellyJ

I doubt that we would get a large number of submissions here either, as they would have to submit:

A) Their true identity and contact info
B) Information about how they assisted with a specific case and the outcome of the information and "help" they provided
AND
C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, all of which would be verified

Based on that information requirement, I predict you will be able to count on one hand the number of submissions you will receive over the lifetime of the project.

Kelly · 3rd April 2006, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Gr8wight

Based on that information requirement, I predict you will be able to count on one hand the number of submissions you will receive over the lifetime of the project.

I suppose we could just do C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, which would be verified.

We could then try to satisfy the question as to whether or not LE requests their help and pays for it, and if in their opinion, the psychics' tips ever solved a crime. We would then have a survey that reflected LE's opinion about the matter.

Adding A and B would give us a more well rounded answer to the question of psychics' abilities to solve cases.

The UK study was done by going directly to LE and asking the question. To survey all LE in the US would be quite a task. I wonder what percentage of LE asked and responses received would suffice to give an accepted result.

delphi_ote · 3rd April 2006, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by KellyJ

Perhaps we could initiate something from the US via the in progress Psychic Predators site.

Claus? Fowlsound? What say you?

We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site.

Fowlsound hasn't had internet for a while. Hopefully he'll be back up and online soon! I just wanted to let you know he wasn't ignoring you.

RSLancastr · 3rd April 2006, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by delphi_ote

KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic.

Kelly, this is definitely a good idea. And I think that if you have trouble being there financially, there are people here, myself included, who would gladly contribute to your registration.

And I'm glad you changed your mind about the "humor" thing!

Gr8wight · 4th April 2006, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by KellyJ

I wonder what percentage of LE asked and responses received would suffice to give an accepted result.

It wouldn't matter to the psychics. As I found when I queried them, they simply claim that the LE agencies are reticent about admitting to using psychics. They have an excuse for everything.

(edited to add: damn, Kelly, now you've got me using your short forms)

elaine · 4th April 2006, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by KellyJ

A comment about the blog series received via email from a woman who does not have a missing person in her life, and who was also neutral on the subject beforehand:

"Kelly I am blown away with your recent postings. I wish this series could post on every site that mentions missing people. Everyone needs to read this series. It is such an important education for those of us who don't know the details of these missing people cases. The pain just jumps off the pages and gets you thinking about the real harm caused by psychics. I never had a clue what the harm was in hearing these people out until I read this series of postings. I can say now that I am outraged by shows that are doing these readings on TV -- it is sick.

I'm sure it was very difficult to post things that brought back your own suffering but bless you for doing it. I've got such insight that I didn't have before. Thank you so much for your postings."

One down....

Congratulations Kelly!!

As an aside, I haven't heard from the Denver Post reporter, yet regarding her article on a local medium. I'm hoping it's because she's too busy reading your blog.

Kelly · 4th April 2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by delphi_ote

Fowlsound hasn't had internet for a while. Hopefully he'll be back up and online soon! I just wanted to let you know he wasn't ignoring you.

Thank you for letting me know. I noticed he hadn't been around.

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

Kelly, this is definitely a good idea. And I think that if you have trouble being there financially, there are people here, myself included, who would gladly contribute to your registration.

I don't know much about the scholarship, other than its existence. I would guess we should see what comes of that first. Thank you for your generosity.

Originally Posted by Gr8wight

It wouldn't matter to the psychics. As I found when I queried them, they simply claim that the LE agencies are reticent about admitting to using psychics. They have an excuse for everything.

(edited to add: damn, Kelly, now you've got me using your short forms)

LOL If I can learn something from you, I would guess you might learn something from me.

Yes, they would have an excuse for everything, but the more we can help the general public understand, isn't that the bottom line? I'm not sure how many psychics will come clean because of education.

Kelly · 4th April 2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by elaine

As an aside, I haven't heard from the Denver Post reporter, yet regarding her article on a local medium. I'm hoping it's because she's too busy reading your blog.

Hi Elaine,

Let's hope thats what she's doing!

Kelly · 5th April 2006, 10:38 AM

It's somewhat off topic, but we were featured in an article in the Columbia News Service today. We hope it will be picked up by many newspapers across the country. I am very pleased that Jason's photo is on here so prominently!

http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/20...-missingpeople

Roadtoad · 5th April 2006, 02:05 PM

I would hardly consider that to be off-topic. If anything, it reiterates what we should have been concentrating on all along, except the "psychics" insist on interfering for their own selfish reasons.

Great article, and congrats, Kelly!

Kelly · 6th April 2006, 11:31 AM

Thanks, RT!

Here's another media outlet giving psychics validity:
http://www.nbc4i.com/news/8474636/detail.html

I wonder if they'll do a follow up to tell us that they were wrong. I doubt it. They even name the psychics.

Gr8wight · 6th April 2006, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by KellyJ

Thanks, RT!

Here's another media outlet giving psychics validity:
http://www.nbc4i.com/news/8474636/detail.html

I wonder if they'll do a follow up to tell us that they were wrong. I doubt it. They even name the psychics.

I have opened an email correspondence with the reporter who did the story. He basically said that unless the psychics are directly responsible for finding the missing college student, they will not be mentioned again. I outlined my concerns about that, and pointed him to your blog series, Kelly. I'll let you know if anything further comes of it.

Kelly · 6th April 2006, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Gr8wight

I have opened an email correspondence with the reporter who did the story. He basically said that unless the psychics are directly responsible for finding the missing college student, they will not be mentioned again. I outlined my concerns about that, and pointed him to your blog series, Kelly. I'll let you know if anything further comes of it.

Thank you for contacting him and giving him the blog link. I just don't see the reason for even bringing it up. I hope the reporter will open to understanding what impact this has. I know you did a fine job in acting as a voice of reason amidst this insanity.

Kelly · 7th April 2006, 12:39 AM

Our own meg is the guest writer on the blog series today.

You can read it here:
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com...ws-things.html

Thank you, meg, for sharing your story and doing a great job in putting a real life slant on things.

Kelly

Mr. Stick · 7th April 2006, 03:45 AM

I've just read Marie Parker's story about her missing friend Audrey http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com...s-part-ii.html and I watched the clip with Sylvia Brown. I've never seen her "live" before, but I had a pretty good impression of her voice thanks to Randi's commentaries.
That clip made me sick!

2nd April 2006, 05:04 PM	#521
Zoinked168 New Blood Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 18	Originally Posted by delphi_ote Take the test and use the money to feed starving children. Prove to the world and all the skeptics once and for all that psychic powers are real. Win the Nobel Prize and feed more starving children. Start a revolution in science and alter the course of history. One simple test is all it would take. I'll prove that this is the real deal. But feeding starving children for a day isn't going to make a big impact is it? I'd sooner take the money, and live life as I do now, and help solve the bigger problems of the world. But for now, one small step at a time aye?
Zoinked168 New Blood Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 18

2nd April 2006, 05:23 PM	#523
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 17,766	Originally Posted by Zoinked168 This term is coined too loosely for start and what I do know is that I deal with the manipulation of quantimbioelectromagnetic energy. Really? Now my Magical Superpowers are caused by radiotelebiomagnoelectric radiation ... which makes my Magic Superpowers even more scientific than yours. And, alas, equally undemonstrable. Quote: I have nothing to prove but to myself. I hope people will understand that one day ... This is bigger than the material world...doesn't anyone see that yet?! Since apparently you refuse to demonstrate your supposed powers to the waiting world, it seems no-one's ever going to "see" or "understand" anything. Put up or shut up. Quote: I have no intentions of being a lab rat for the rest of my life. You should consider it. Muridae is a step up from Mustelidae.
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 17,766

2nd April 2006, 06:12 PM	#524
ysabella Muse Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 701	Dr.Adequate, don't make my avatar come after you.
ysabella Muse Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 701	__________________ "The greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism." - Sir William Osler

2nd April 2006, 07:01 PM	#525
meg psychic reader Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kansas USA Posts: 1,811	Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you. Can we look at what you just did? You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright. Here's something I dare you to do. Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?" "Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?" For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo. I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up. On a different thread.
	__________________ "I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." —Alan Greenspan

2nd April 2006, 08:15 PM	#526
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 17,135	kelly, i think the jokes about psychics is a bad idea.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

2nd April 2006, 05:06 PM	#522
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by Zoinked168 Kelly, Before I can answer your valid questions, I have one for you. What is a "normal ability"? The whole concept behind ESP is that everyone could potentially tap into this unused resource in our brain. This is why I suggest you try it yourself. I have briefly talked about locating people with my past mentor sometime ago now. I have some rough idea where to start but even with a natural ability, it is useless without a good technique. Everything connected to humans has evolved and improved over time, even thinking and logic for example. It would require a lot of my time to develop this independently. This is one skill out of dozens of known phenomena, and there are still limitless of unknown ones too yet to be developed. If you have looked into energy practices such as Qi-Gong you will notice that the technique has practically not evolved at all since it was established and there is only "one way of doing it", this I believe to be false not to question and improve upon something which dates back thousands of years. I really hope you can see my view-point on this and see if it makes a little sense. I hope that once I have established myself as genuine you will take my words more to heart. Until then, take it as you will. I force feed no one. I only ask for everyone and anyone who takes an interest in ESP to experiment for themselves before they apply straight-up knock'em down approach. Perhaps I am naive in my belief's, but regardless I see the practicalities and possible usages for the world we live in today. I'm off to bed now. I hope that this has partly answered your questions. I will elaborate and answer any more questions you may have when I am able too You need to start your own thread with this. You did not answer any of my questions, but instead posed new ones which are off topic for this subject matter. Please be considerate and not hijack this thread with your desired topic.

2nd April 2006, 08:25 PM	#527
Helianthus Student Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 32	Originally Posted by meg Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you. Can we look at what you just did? You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright. Here's something I dare you to do. Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?" "Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?" For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo. I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up. On a different thread. Hey Zoe, I'm agreeing with Meg wholeheartedly, in a kind way, on all of this and if you look at my earliest posts you'll know that I have been fully open about being a believer. You appear to be very well meaning but I think you need to examine yourself clearly and take her criticisms as constructive (and kind).
Helianthus Student Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 32

2nd April 2006, 08:56 PM	#528
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Hey Zoe, When you return, please be sure to start your own thread as strongly suggested. I would still like to know the answers to my previous questions. RL: I'm not going to do a post with psychic jokes. While generic psychic jokes don't bother me, they might bother other people. Not only that, but I do think a post like that would detract from the seriousness of the subject matter. I was at a low when I asked that, but sense is prevailing now. All: I just love Meg, and especially when she gets riled up. The thing about Meg is, that even though angered, she still is dead on in her reasoning. It's that mom in her. Kelly

2nd April 2006, 09:16 PM	#529
meg psychic reader Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kansas USA Posts: 1,811	Aw.. I love you too, Kelly
	__________________ "I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." —Alan Greenspan

2nd April 2006, 11:49 PM	#530
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994	Originally Posted by meg Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you. Can we look at what you just did? You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright. Here's something I dare you to do. Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?" "Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?" For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo. I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up. On a different thread.
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994

3rd April 2006, 05:14 AM	#531
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96	I've just put this on my own site but although it's about the UK it might be worth adding it here. After reading about yet another psychic being called in by a family whose son is missing I wrote to the Metropolitan Police and asked if they could confirm the use of psychics. Their reply was interesting... "Dear Mr Youens Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the use of psychics by the police, which has been forwarded to me by our Public Access Office. We have conducted a search of our indexes but have been unable to identify any relevant records relating to any official use of psychics." They did add... "There is, however, a historical case where this played a major part." I've begun looking at this case but early days yet. Tony Youens
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96

3rd April 2006, 06:06 AM	#532
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by tonyyouens I've just put this on my own site but although it's about the UK it might be worth adding it here. After reading about yet another psychic being called in by a family whose son is missing I wrote to the Metropolitan Police and asked if they could confirm the use of psychics. Their reply was interesting... "Dear Mr Youens Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the use of psychics by the police, which has been forwarded to me by our Public Access Office. We have conducted a search of our indexes but have been unable to identify any relevant records relating to any official use of psychics." They did add... "There is, however, a historical case where this played a major part." I've begun looking at this case but early days yet. Tony Youens Hi Tony, Thank you for the link. Let us know what happens with your research on that case. I checked out your summary, and it looks like it's "business as usual" with the psychic claims of aiding police. (sigh) Take care, Kelly

3rd April 2006, 11:58 AM	#533
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	A comment about the blog series received via email from a woman who does not have a missing person in her life, and who was also neutral on the subject beforehand: "Kelly I am blown away with your recent postings. I wish this series could post on every site that mentions missing people. Everyone needs to read this series. It is such an important education for those of us who don't know the details of these missing people cases. The pain just jumps off the pages and gets you thinking about the real harm caused by psychics. I never had a clue what the harm was in hearing these people out until I read this series of postings. I can say now that I am outraged by shows that are doing these readings on TV -- it is sick. I'm sure it was very difficult to post things that brought back your own suffering but bless you for doing it. I've got such insight that I didn't have before. Thank you so much for your postings."

3rd April 2006, 12:06 PM	#534
meg psychic reader Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kansas USA Posts: 1,811	Wow. That's awesome, Kelly! Great work on the blog. It looks like you're really reaching people with it.
	__________________ "I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." —Alan Greenspan

3rd April 2006, 12:12 PM	#535
John Jackson Muse Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 664	Again this is in the UK, but we've collected responses from police forces here regarding psychics' claims of 'helping the police'. See: http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=57.0 The replies speak for themselves.
John Jackson Muse Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 664	__________________

3rd April 2006, 12:21 PM	#536
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96	That's excellent John. I'll stick in a link to that as well. Tony
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96

3rd April 2006, 12:26 PM	#537
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994	KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic. If you even visit at the next TAM, you'll receive a hero's welcome (I for one volunteer to carry you through the door of the casino yelling "HUZZAH FOR KELLYJ!")
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994

3rd April 2006, 12:41 PM	#538
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 17,766	Originally Posted by tonyyouens That's excellent John. I'll stick in a link to that as well. Tony Also linked in [swiki]Psychic Detectives[/swiki] Very nice. Are there any Americans who'd like to do something similar? TY --- [swiki]Psychic Detectives[/swiki] links to some of your articles --- are there any other relevant ones we've missed?
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 17,766

3rd April 2006, 01:47 PM	#539
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96	Okay SkepticWiki link put in as well. The main links on my site other than Dennis McKenzie and the current commentary are; The Christine Holohan case which was much debated on the JREF forum at one time. http://www.tonyyouens.com/ruislip_murder.htm and a commentary 'The unpleasant world of the psychic detective' at: http://www.tonyyouens.com/commentary.htm#detectives which deals with the case of Lisa Dorrian. I was contacted by the psychic in question who thought my tone a little abrasive. I told him he would be of no use and indeed he wasn't. I think this is a perfect opportunity for us all to work together. A challenge maybe? Kind regards to all. Tony
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96

3rd April 2006, 01:48 PM	#540
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by delphi_ote KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic. If you even visit at the next TAM, you'll receive a hero's welcome (I for one volunteer to carry you through the door of the casino yelling "HUZZAH FOR KELLYJ!") Hello Delphi_ote, Early on in the thread, there is some talk about me attending TAM on a scholarship and giving a report. I believe Luke T. initiated this discussion. I'm not the greatest public speaker, but I would be happy to do this if the foundation wishes. I hope you are a robust fellow, and have decent medical coverage, as I am not a petite little thing. Your post made me smile. Thank you! Kelly

3rd April 2006, 02:08 PM	#541
meg psychic reader Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kansas USA Posts: 1,811	Originally Posted by tonyyouens I think this is a perfect opportunity for us all to work together. A challenge maybe? I'll help any way I can. What do you have in mind, Tony? Meg
	__________________ "I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." —Alan Greenspan

3rd April 2006, 02:22 PM	#542
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96	Quote: I'll help any way I can. What do you have in mind, Tony? To be honest I haven't given it much thought. I was thinking maybe those of us in the UK might be able to offer a join challenge on various websites challenging psychics to come up with evidence that they a) have been asked to assist by the police and b) the information helped solve the crime. I wasn't thinking of offering a cash challenge just asking for some kind of proof. Anyway something like that - but as I say I haven't really thought about it. Any suggestions? Tony
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96

3rd April 2006, 02:27 PM	#543
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Perhaps we could initiate something from the US via the in progress Psychic Predators site. Claus? Fowlsound? What say you? We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site.

3rd April 2006, 02:38 PM	#544
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96	Quote: We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site. I doubt that we would get many UK psychics actually contact us but certainly we should be ready to follow up if needed. I don't know if there's anyone here from the Irish Skeptics Society but they could join in too. Probably it would be a good idea to see a show of hands before we go much further. I'm in!
tonyyouens Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 96

3rd April 2006, 02:50 PM	#545
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by tonyyouens I doubt that we would get many UK psychics actually contact us but certainly we should be ready to follow up if needed. I don't know if there's anyone here from the Irish Skeptics Society but they could join in too. Probably it would be a good idea to see a show of hands before we go much further. I'm in! I doubt that we would get a large number of submissions here either, as they would have to submit: A) Their true identity and contact info B) Information about how they assisted with a specific case and the outcome of the information and "help" they provided AND C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, all of which would be verified

3rd April 2006, 08:06 PM	#546
Gr8wight red-shirted crewman Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,661	Originally Posted by KellyJ I doubt that we would get a large number of submissions here either, as they would have to submit: A) Their true identity and contact info B) Information about how they assisted with a specific case and the outcome of the information and "help" they provided AND C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, all of which would be verified Based on that information requirement, I predict you will be able to count on one hand the number of submissions you will receive over the lifetime of the project.
	__________________ Aurora Walking Vacation "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding."--Marshall McLuhan

3rd April 2006, 08:31 PM	#547
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by Gr8wight Based on that information requirement, I predict you will be able to count on one hand the number of submissions you will receive over the lifetime of the project. I suppose we could just do C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, which would be verified. We could then try to satisfy the question as to whether or not LE requests their help and pays for it, and if in their opinion, the psychics' tips ever solved a crime. We would then have a survey that reflected LE's opinion about the matter. Adding A and B would give us a more well rounded answer to the question of psychics' abilities to solve cases. The UK study was done by going directly to LE and asking the question. To survey all LE in the US would be quite a task. I wonder what percentage of LE asked and responses received would suffice to give an accepted result.

3rd April 2006, 09:01 PM	#548
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994	Originally Posted by KellyJ Perhaps we could initiate something from the US via the in progress Psychic Predators site. Claus? Fowlsound? What say you? We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site. Fowlsound hasn't had internet for a while. Hopefully he'll be back up and online soon! I just wanted to let you know he wasn't ignoring you.
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994

3rd April 2006, 09:44 PM	#549
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 17,135	Originally Posted by delphi_ote KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic. Kelly, this is definitely a good idea. And I think that if you have trouble being there financially, there are people here, myself included, who would gladly contribute to your registration. And I'm glad you changed your mind about the "humor" thing!
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

4th April 2006, 06:06 AM	#550
Gr8wight red-shirted crewman Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,661	Originally Posted by KellyJ I wonder what percentage of LE asked and responses received would suffice to give an accepted result. It wouldn't matter to the psychics. As I found when I queried them, they simply claim that the LE agencies are reticent about admitting to using psychics. They have an excuse for everything. (edited to add: damn, Kelly, now you've got me using your short forms)
	__________________ Aurora Walking Vacation "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding."--Marshall McLuhan

4th April 2006, 06:17 AM	#551
elaine Killer Squirrel Killer Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,145	Originally Posted by KellyJ A comment about the blog series received via email from a woman who does not have a missing person in her life, and who was also neutral on the subject beforehand: "Kelly I am blown away with your recent postings. I wish this series could post on every site that mentions missing people. Everyone needs to read this series. It is such an important education for those of us who don't know the details of these missing people cases. The pain just jumps off the pages and gets you thinking about the real harm caused by psychics. I never had a clue what the harm was in hearing these people out until I read this series of postings. I can say now that I am outraged by shows that are doing these readings on TV -- it is sick. I'm sure it was very difficult to post things that brought back your own suffering but bless you for doing it. I've got such insight that I didn't have before. Thank you so much for your postings." One down.... Congratulations Kelly!! As an aside, I haven't heard from the Denver Post reporter, yet regarding her article on a local medium. I'm hoping it's because she's too busy reading your blog.

4th April 2006, 11:58 AM	#552
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by delphi_ote Fowlsound hasn't had internet for a while. Hopefully he'll be back up and online soon! I just wanted to let you know he wasn't ignoring you. Thank you for letting me know. I noticed he hadn't been around. Originally Posted by RSLancastr Kelly, this is definitely a good idea. And I think that if you have trouble being there financially, there are people here, myself included, who would gladly contribute to your registration. I don't know much about the scholarship, other than its existence. I would guess we should see what comes of that first. Thank you for your generosity. Originally Posted by Gr8wight It wouldn't matter to the psychics. As I found when I queried them, they simply claim that the LE agencies are reticent about admitting to using psychics. They have an excuse for everything. (edited to add: damn, Kelly, now you've got me using your short forms) LOL If I can learn something from you, I would guess you might learn something from me. Yes, they would have an excuse for everything, but the more we can help the general public understand, isn't that the bottom line? I'm not sure how many psychics will come clean because of education.

4th April 2006, 11:59 AM	#553
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by elaine As an aside, I haven't heard from the Denver Post reporter, yet regarding her article on a local medium. I'm hoping it's because she's too busy reading your blog. Hi Elaine, Let's hope thats what she's doing!

5th April 2006, 10:38 AM	#554
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	It's somewhat off topic, but we were featured in an article in the Columbia News Service today. We hope it will be picked up by many newspapers across the country. I am very pleased that Jason's photo is on here so prominently! http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/20...-missingpeople

5th April 2006, 02:05 PM	#555
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 15,468	I would hardly consider that to be off-topic. If anything, it reiterates what we should have been concentrating on all along, except the "psychics" insist on interfering for their own selfish reasons. Great article, and congrats, Kelly!