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Can Trump legally dump Vance?

acbytesla

Penultimate Amazing
acbytesla
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
36,063
Since Biden's abdication and Kamala's ascension, Republicans have been saying the Democrats can't do that.

But the combination of that and many Republicans expressing regret of the choice of Vance got me wondering. Never mind whether Harris can be the Democratic Presidential Nominee. Can Trump dump Vance from the ticket?

Now, there is precedent for a Vice Presidential Nominee withdrawing from the race after the Convention nominates that candidate. In 1972, Senator Thomas Eagleton withdrew a few weeks later after it was discovered that he had been treated a decade earlier for clinical depression. He was replaced by Sargent Shriver.
 
I think there are two scenarios here:

- Trump unilaterally picks a new VP, Republicans struggle to find a way to make it above board.
- Trump gets Vance to step away "to spend more time with the family". Then he tells Republicans who to get for him instead.

But in either case it would have to happen very soon.
 
Particularly since the GOP is terrified of Trump, he can do anything he wants so long as the VP is just the nominee as opposed to the elected VP. Once elected, he'd have to go through Congress. My hunch is that he could care less about the Vance controversy, he even stated before picking him that "nobody cares about the VP" In his narcissistic mind he would win even with Hannibal Lecter as VP, and he certainly would never concede he made a mistake in his decisions.
 
Trump picked Vance so by definition that was the best choice. You have to believe that.

The other point is that MAGA loves Vance. They would never consider dumping him anyway even if the left think it was a mistake. Like Trump, everything he says is what they want to hear.

Swing voters may have another opinion but Trump views all people who are not totally loyal to him as traitors anyway.
 
stanfr said:
Particularly since the GOP is terrified of Trump, he can do anything he wants so long as the VP is just the nominee as opposed to the elected VP. Once elected, he'd have to go through Congress. My hunch is that he could care less about the Vance controversy, he even stated before picking him that "nobody cares about the VP" In his narcissistic mind he would win even with Hannibal Lecter as VP, and he certainly would never concede he made a mistake in his decisions.
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I get your point. But no. Vance would be the duly elected Vice Presidential Nominee. The delegates voted for Vance to be their nominee.

Trump can not unilaterally overturn a free and fair election. ::dl::dl: :D:rolleyes:

Or can he? Is there some kind of Convention rule that allows him to fire Vance and pick someone else at his discretion?
 
Trump can "truth" some nasty things bout Vance, calling on his mob to make his life and that of his family a living hell.

He'll drop out fast and say that, actually, he did never fill out the VP candidate paperwork so Trump can pick whoever he wants.
 
If Trump decided to dump Vance, they'd change the rules to allow it without blinking. Duh, he's the cult leader.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Trump can "truth" some nasty things bout Vance, calling on his mob to make his life and that of his family a living hell.

He'll drop out fast and say that, actually, he did never fill out the VP candidate paperwork so Trump can pick whoever he wants.
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I totally agree. Vance is so weak and such a sycophant he definitely would withdraw long before that happened.

But could Trump legally fire him without his consent?
 
Let's see...

could there be consequences for the GOP having no principles at all?

Yet to see it happen.

I suppose whatever happens, it could go to the Supreme Court where five justices make up some ruling about how, if you are the Democrats you have to do things democratically, but if you are the Republicans, you can do things republicanly. I see nothing in this dictionary from grade school that says otherwse, therefore... it's fine.
 
The GOP should be forced to carry their VP to term even if it endangers the life of the party.
 
According to the GOP rules, Vance could be replaced, but it would have to happen soon:
Under Rule 9, the Republican National Committee explains how it fills a vice-presidential vacancy "which may occur as the result of death, declination, or otherwise."

The rule allows the party to reconvene its national convention if it chooses or to move ahead with a vote of the smaller group of Republican National Committee members who would determine Vance's replacement.
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Time arguably poses more complications than the specific rules, says Amy Dacey, a former CEO of the Democratic National Committee who's now the executive director of the Sine Institute of Policy & Politics at American University.

"I think sometimes what people forget is that people start voting in September," Dacey told Business Insider. "There's an early vote in some states in September. So this is not just a November election. And the worst-case scenario would be for your nominees not to appear on a ballot in a state."

Crucially, the rule explicitly applies to a scenario in which Vance voluntarily steps aside, says Kenneth Mayer, a recently retired political-science professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He told BI there was no precedent for forcibly ripping the nomination away from a vice-presidential candidate after the convention.

Mayer also said impending state deadlines posed a significant issue, and the complications would only snowball once ballots were printed. It would be, he said, "extraordinarily disruptive" both logistically and politically to replace Vance as the vice-presidential nominee.
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varwoche said:
If Trump decided to dump Vance, they'd change the rules to allow it without blinking. Duh, he's the cult leader.
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The chair of the RNC will be a good dog as do as she's told to make sure the stupid **** can do what it wants.
 
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acbytesla said:
I get your point. But no. Vance would be the duly elected Vice Presidential Nominee. The delegates voted for Vance to be their nominee.

Trump can not unilaterally overturn a free and fair election. ::dl::dl: :D:rolleyes:

Or can he? Is there some kind of Convention rule that allows him to fire Vance and pick someone else at his discretion?
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It doesn't say he can't and he has total immunity for all presidential actions.
 
even if it is illegal, for him it's pretty small potatoes in terms of how illegal of a thing he's willing to do

i think panic firing vance right after publicly announcing your choice will come off as a desperate and weak move. then again, the whole pool of trump vp candidates is a bunch of losers like vance
 
Let’s remember why he isn’t using his first choice for VP.

Moving to a third would be small potatoes by comparison.
 
I wasn't able to Google the reason Vance is considered being dumped. Or is it just because of the "childless cat ladies" statement? That barely registered with me because of all the things The FPaCFDJT has said.
 
alfaniner said:
I wasn't able to Google the reason Vance is considered being dumped. Or is it just because of the "childless cat ladies" statement? That barely registered with me because of all the things The FPaCFDJT has said.
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nothing to do with his wife and kids.
seriously, why would you think that?
 
As a former POTUS Trump can legally do anything he damned well wants. He has been granted blanket immunity by his very own supreme court.
 
alfaniner said:
I wasn't able to Google the reason Vance is considered being dumped. Or is it just because of the "childless cat ladies" statement? That barely registered with me because of all the things The FPaCFDJT has said.
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He is the toxic male. Trump already has every toxic male voting for him. Because...women.
 
alfaniner said:
I wasn't able to Google the reason Vance is considered being dumped. Or is it just because of the "childless cat ladies" statement? That barely registered with me because of all the things The FPaCFDJT has said.
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It's because he's the Sarah Palin of Dan Quayles. He's been shattering approval records with the bigliest dislike ever, and his response is to call Diet Mountain Dew racist and get caught googling for dolphin porn.

The Great Zaganza said:
nothing to do with his wife and kids.
seriously, why would you think that?
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No, he said that about other people, specifically about Harris not having children of her own, that the US is being run by "a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they've made and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too." Nevermind that Harris has two stepchildren, they're not of her blood so they don't count for the weird stripe of fertility fetishists that Vance subscribes to.

That was back in 2021, but with the media being "balanced" how it is he keeps getting offered softball chances to backpedal or reframe that, but instead keeps doubling down like the world's biggest dumbass.
 
Steve said:
As a former POTUS Trump can legally do anything he damned well wants. He has been granted blanket immunity by his very own supreme court.
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It's unclear what laws, if any, are implicated. The selection of a party's candidates is governed entirely by the private by-laws of the party. Statute is mostly irrelevant.

Parties that hold primary elections as part of the selection process may avail themselves of state mechanisms to administer and certify those elections. When that occurs, the party must comply with any laws regarding those elections. However, the party can do whatever it wants with the outcome of that election. No statute governs that.

Each state has laws that govern the submission of a party's candidates for President and Vice President for inclusion on the ballot. But those include policy for replacing candidates who die, withdraw, or become ineligible. The only real deadlines are the day of the general election and the day the state electors vote. Other statutory deadlines are subject to state law and the policies they enforce. In some cases the party by-laws are implicated (but not incorporated) in state election law: the statutes may require a party to perform some legally required action "according to its by-laws," but has no say in what those by-laws are or how they are mde.

Violation of a party's by-laws is otherwise an internal matter between the members or officers of the party and the violators. Any legal remedy would be a civil matter. In practical terms, nothing prevents the RNC from convening an executive session to amend the by-laws to permit whatever action might become necessary to change the Vice Presidential candidate.

To the point, however, the former-President immunity doctrine holds only for acts committed while President. What Trump does today is not covered. For now.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
...of Dan Quayles.
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I actually met Dan Quayle after his term of office. He's not a bad guy in person, and not nearly as dumb as he was portrayed. Kinda like Vance and the parody couch thing. Once the media takes hold of something, it's hard to get it to let go. Dunno, I guess with Vance the casting couch is just...the couch?

No, he said that about other people, specifically about Harris not having children of her own...
* * *
Nevermind that Harris has two stepchildren, they're not of her blood so they don't count for the weird stripe of fertility fetishists that Vance subscribes to.
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Yeah, that's a weird, toxic alpha-male proposition. And as you say, he seems to be entirely serious about it. I can't imagine what kind of echo chamber would lead to a sincere belief that a woman's value is principally as a baby factory, and that emphasizing this would be a good look for a party that took a big hit following Dobbs.
 
"Oh Mr. Vance, please stay back from that open window! We're several stories up! Here, let me close it for you, it's kind of tricky -- woops. Well, that's a shame. My bad. Thoughts 'n prayers, everybody."
 
sackett said:
"Oh Mr. Vance, please stay back from that open window! We're several stories up! Here, let me close it for you, it's kind of tricky -- woops. Well, that's a shame. My bad. Thoughts 'n prayers, everybody."
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Putin's playbook.:thumbsup:
 
Steve said:
As a former POTUS Trump can legally do anything he damned well wants. He has been granted blanket immunity by his very own supreme court.
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Yes but to be clear... It's not a matter of legality. It's a matter of GOP rules.
 
varwoche said:
Yes but to be clear... It's not a matter of legality. It's a matter of GOP rules.
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Yes and maybe no.

Courts enforce contracts between individuals as well as groups. Some contracts are unenforceable. Some are definitely enforceable. If the language isn't clear, courts will often decide for the parties. If a group of people, say a country club hold a golf tournament and award the winner 10,000 dollars, and then post hoc decide not to award the ten thousand dollars, they may or may not be ordered by the courts to pay it.

So if the rules are ambiguious, the courts could theoretically get involved.
 
JayUtah said:
.. Snip..





To the point, however, the former-President immunity doctrine holds only for acts committed while President. What Trump does today is not covered. For now.
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You are forgetting that Trump is right now the legitimate President, remember the 2016 election wasn't valid.
 
Another revealing moment by JD Vance.

CNN found that Vance said in a 2022 episode of the podcast “Very Fine People,” that he would “certainly” like for “abortion to be illegal nationally.”
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“Ohio bans abortion … in, let’s say, 2024. And then, every day, George Soros sends a 747 to Columbus to load up disproportionately Black women to get them to go have abortions in California. And of course, the left will celebrate this as a victory for diversity.”
“If that happens, do you need some federal response to prevent it from happening?” Vance added. “I’m pretty sympathetic to that, actually. So hopefully we get to a point where Ohio bans abortion, and California and the Soroses of the world respect it.”

In 2021, the then-Senate candidate told Spectrum News he didn’t believe in exceptions to abortion restrictions for rape or incest because “two wrongs don’t make a right.”
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Trump and Vance make a weird combo: Trump is a sexual predator, 34X convicted felon, fraudster, twice divorced, 3 times married, has 5 children by 3 women, serial adulterer, pathological liar and Vance is a converted atheist to Catholic who said ending marriages and encouraging divorce, even when domestic violence was involved, is not necessarily good for the children in those families. I guess the spouse, usually the wife, getting beat up and terrorized should just hang in there until s/he get killed, heh? And the kids get to see it?
 
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Stacyhs said:
Another revealing moment by JD Vance.





Trump and Vance make a weird combo: Trump is a sexual predator, 34X convicted felon, fraudster, twice divorced, 3 times married, has 5 children by 3 women, serial adulterer, pathological liar and Vance is a converted atheist to Catholic who said ending marriages and encouraging divorce, even when domestic violence was involved, is not necessarily good for the children in those families. I guess the spouse, usually the wife, getting beat up and terrorized should just hang in there until s/he get killed, heh?
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A match made in hillbilly heaven.
 
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