Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

Jesus Christ that "news article" is a mess. It at no point quotes any UK based media outlet directly (although it does reportedly quote something the arrested man said to the Torygraph) despite saying that they got the story from various UK media reports.

It does however quote the contender for "biggest ****bag in the House of Lords" Toby Young, the borderline white supremacist and constant whinging man-baby. I love that it mentions he is the head of the Free Speech Union as if that were a meaningful organisation and not his own crybaby racist circle jerk group he founded 5 years ago that no one takes seriously or even cares about.

I think my personal favourite part though is where it constantly frames it as though he got arrested for saying "◊◊◊◊ Hamas" and then quietly slips in that his post also said "◊◊◊◊ Islam" and told people who want to protest against the actions of the Israeli state to "go to a Muslim country" if they want to protest. So he's whining that his free speech is being taken away, because he got arrested for telling people to stop using their free speech to say things he personally doesn't like.

No notes.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Jesus Christ that "news article" is a mess. It at no point quotes any UK based media outlet directly (although it does reportedly quote something the arrested man said to the Torygraph) despite saying that they got the story from various UK media reports.

It does however quote the contender for "biggest ****bag in the House of Lords" Toby Young, the borderline white supremacist and constant whinging man-baby. I love that it mentions he is the head of the Free Speech Union as if that were a meaningful organisation and not his own crybaby racist circle jerk group he founded 5 years ago that no one takes seriously or even cares about.

I think my personal favourite part though is where it constantly frames it as though he got arrested for saying "◊◊◊◊ Hamas" and then quietly slips in that his post also said "◊◊◊◊ Islam" and told people who want to protest against the actions of the Israeli state to "go to a Muslim country" if they want to protest. So he's whining that his free speech is being taken away, because he got arrested for telling people to stop using their free speech to say things he personally doesn't like.

No notes.
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You're joking right?

You think people should go to prison for saying "◊◊◊◊ Islam" or "go to a Muslim country if you want to protest Israel", on the internet???

What do you think Freedom of Speech is about, if it does not include offensive speech?

What good is Freedom of Speech, if only nice happy polite speech is protected?
 
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Hercules56 said:
You're joking right?

You think people should go to prison for saying "◊◊◊◊ Islam" or "go to a Muslim country if you want to protest Israel", on the internet???

What do you think Freedom of Speech is about, if it does not include offensive speech?

What good is Freedom of Speech if only nice happy speech is protected?
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Did I say that?

Please quote me saying any of that.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Did I say that?

Please quote me saying any of that.
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"I think my personal favourite part though is where it constantly frames it as though he got arrested for saying "◊◊◊◊ Hamas" and then quietly slips in that his post also said "◊◊◊◊ Islam" and told people who want to protest against the actions of the Israeli state to "go to a Muslim country" if they want to protest. So he's whining that his free speech is being taken away, because he got arrested for telling people to stop using their free speech to say things he personally doesn't like."



Ok, you're saying you DONT support his arrest over this?

Kool.

Sorry for my confusion.
 
Hercules56 said:
"I think my personal favourite part though is where it constantly frames it as though he got arrested for saying "◊◊◊◊ Hamas" and then quietly slips in that his post also said "◊◊◊◊ Islam" and told people who want to protest against the actions of the Israeli state to "go to a Muslim country" if they want to protest. So he's whining that his free speech is being taken away, because he got arrested for telling people to stop using their free speech to say things he personally doesn't like."



Ok, you're saying you DONT support his arrest over this?

Kool.
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"Kool"? What are you, 10?

I don't know if I support his arrest because I suspect that "news article" isn't accurately reporting anything beyond "man was arrested". If an actual reputable news site outlines exactly what the arrest was for and what specifically he had done then I may, or may not support his arrest.

On the face of it, no I don't think you should be arrested for saying ◊◊◊◊ Islam, but I could very very easily see this person saying things that I would be fine with him being arrested for about say, what people should do to anti-Israel protestors or Muslims.

ETA: Of course that absolutely does not say what you attempted to hamfistedly cram into my mouth. I merely pointed out that even in what that rag decided to print they included an expanded view of his words that went against the apparent claim of the article, vis a vis that he was arrested for saying ◊◊◊◊ Hamas. Even if he was arrested for simply saying ◊◊◊◊ Islam, which I do not agree with (the arrest I mean) that is very much not what the JPost site is trying to claim happened.
 
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MarkCorrigan said:
"Kool"? What are you, 10?

I don't know if I support his arrest because I suspect that "news article" isn't accurately reporting anything beyond "man was arrested". If an actual reputable news site outlines exactly what the arrest was for and what specifically he had done then I may, or may not support his arrest.

On the face of it, no I don't think you should be arrested for saying ◊◊◊◊ Islam, but I could very very easily see this person saying things that I would be fine with him being arrested for about say, what people should do to anti-Israel protestors or Muslims.
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Yes, if he called for violence, he should be arrested.

Other than that, nope, freedom of speech is paramount in a democracy. Even if you say rude things.
 
Hercules56 said:
Yes, if he called for violence, he should be arrested.

Other than that, nope, freedom of speech is paramount in a democracy. Even if you say rude things.
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The people you seem to think you're arguing against, are they in the room right now?

I posted that the article you clutched your pearls over is a ridiculous hack piece that is so poor it would barely qualify to go in the Daily Heil and you decided that meant I thought he should be arrested and that I think that free speech should be severely limited?

Where did you get your mindreading skills from, because if you paid to learn them you should get your money back.
 
Indeed, anyway...do you have a legitimate source for the claims in the comic book you linked to initially?

When I say legitimate I mean not a hysterical tabloid rag like the Daily Heil, or a paper that routinely praises the Likud government like the Jerusalem Post? Something like the Guardian, the BBC, the Times perhaps? Something people can take seriously?

Maybe La Monde? Der Berliner? Anything?
 
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Hercules56 said:
You're joking right?

You think people should go to prison for saying "◊◊◊◊ Islam" or "go to a Muslim country if you want to protest Israel", on the internet???

What do you think Freedom of Speech is about, if it does not include offensive speech?

What good is Freedom of Speech, if only nice happy polite speech is protected?
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I don’t think anyone from the US should lecture any other country about what is good for them given the US is currently a laughing stock.

In Australia we have racial and religious vilification laws. People here can’t say “◊◊◊◊ Islam” in public. I think this is just fine and part of living in a civilised country. Which the US currently isn’t.
 
It would appear that at the moment no one bar the police and the CPS and the folk arrested know what they have been arrested for, but in this post fact world they can have been arrested for anything we want to imagine.

I think he was arrested for wearing a blue hoodie on pink Thursday! We should all be able to wear what we want all the time or indeed not wear anything at all, all of the time! Otherwise we are living in a fascist dictatorship - sorry it's about the UK so that should be - a communist dictatorship.
 
Hercules56 said:
www.jpost.com

Yorkshire police arrest UK man for 'F*** Hamas' X post | The Jerusalem Post

Pete North, 47, was arrested over the meme on suspicion of committing a public order offence.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com

How is this possible?

In the UK if you post "◊◊◊◊ Hamas" or "◊◊◊◊ Palestine" on Facebook or Twitter, you go to jail???

When did this insanity start?
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:rolleyes: Oh the hypocrisy.

While you undoubtedly feel the need to stir things up and ◊◊◊◊-post, this is nonsense even by your usual low standards.
You fail to mention the comments that people who dare to criticise Israeli genocide should be expelled from Britain. But then that's the wrong sort of free speech, isn't it?
 
MarkCorrigan said:
"Kool"? What are you, 10?

I don't know if I support his arrest because I suspect that "news article" isn't accurately reporting anything beyond "man was arrested". If an actual reputable news site outlines exactly what the arrest was for and what specifically he had done then I may, or may not support his arrest.
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It's the Jerusalem Post, that noted unbiased source.
 
catsmate said:
:rolleyes: Oh the hypocrisy.

While you undoubtedly feel the need to stir things up and ◊◊◊◊-post, this is nonsense even by your usual low standards.
You fail to mention the comments that people who dare to criticise Israeli genocide should be expelled from Britain. But then that's the wrong sort of free speech, isn't it?
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I guess you also dont understand what Free Speech is really about.

Here's a hint:

Its about the government not being able to arrest and prosecute or sanction you for saying things that are rude, objectionable, hateful.

Yes, I should be allowed to say that all Muslims should be deported. Its a racist comment but its not a threat of violence therefore it should be legal. Im starting to see why the USA rebelled against England.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Is the threat to free speech in the room with us?

Are you still standing by your original sources claims?
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If you can't say hateful obnoxious things on the Internet that do not involve an actual threat of violence, then yes Freedom of Speech is in grave danger. Your ignoring this is very interesting.
 
Doesn't answer the question I asked, although it does hint at the answer I suppose.

Answer the question.
 
You quoted it in the post that I replied to. I don't think you're so stupid as to need spoonfeeding something that happened a couple of posts ago when you can just scroll up and find it, so stop being lazy and answer the question.
 
Hercules56 said:
I guess you also dont understand what Free Speech is really about.

Here's a hint:

Its about the government not being able to arrest and prosecute or sanction you for saying things that are rude, objectionable, hateful.

Yes, I should be allowed to say that all Muslims should be deported. Its a racist comment but its not a threat of violence therefore it should be legal. Im starting to see why the USA rebelled against England.
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Should you be able to say a hotel being used to house asylum seekers should be burnt to the ground?
 
Darat said:
Should you be able to say a hotel being used to house asylum seekers should be burnt to the ground?
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Thats a good question. According to our courts, if the threat is not immediate, its legal. But that's pretty specific and detailed. I really dont know.
However you cannot say "im gonna throw a Molotov cocktail into your house".

However, saying the government should deport people of course should not be criminal. Its offensive but we shouldn't make things illegal simply based on feelings.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Thats a good question. According to our courts, if the threat is not immediate, its illegal. But that's pretty specific and detailed. I really dont know.

However, saying the government should deport people of course should not be criminal. Its offensive but we shouldn't make things illegal simply based on feelings.
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What about saying that all homosexuals should be put to the death?
 
I find it very interesting and educational that the Brits here are happy criminalizing statements like "islam is garbage!!!" And "black people are stupid!!!"

They don't see what a slippery slope this is to authoritarianism.
 
Hercules56 said:
I guess you also dont understand what Free Speech is really about.

Here's a hint:

Its about the government not being able to arrest and prosecute or sanction you for saying things that are rude, objectionable, hateful.

Yes, I should be allowed to say that all Muslims should be deported. Its a racist comment but its not a threat of violence therefore it should be legal. Im starting to see why the USA rebelled against England.
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Oh good grief.....
Speech has consequences, but then you don't really care about that, do you?

And perhaps, in future, you could try researching you claims before posting? Looking for decent sources would be a start.
 
Hercules56 said:
You mean like literally quoting the Bible?
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So what? Not everyone grovels to the Big Book of Bronze Age Campfire Stories.
Hercules56 said:
I find it very interesting and educational that the Brits here are happy criminalizing statements like "islam is garbage!!!" And "black people are stupid!!!"

They don't see what a slippery slope this is to authoritarianism.
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I see you're back to spewing straw.
 
Hercules56 said:
I find it very interesting and educational that the Brits here are happy criminalizing statements like "islam is garbage!!!" And "black people are stupid!!!"

They don't see what a slippery slope this is to authoritarianism.
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Quote a Brit saying what you just claimed.

ETA and answer my question. You're clearly just ignoring it now which is the height of rudeness and intellectual dishonesty.
 
catsmate said:
Oh good grief.....
Speech has consequences, but then you don't really care about that, do you?

And perhaps, in future, you could try researching you claims before posting? Looking for decent sources would be a start.
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Speech that does not pose a specific and immediate threat of violence, should face ZERO government censorship or persecution.

That's a recipe for authoritarianism. Like the Nazis or Soviets.

Interesting you guys dont get this, I guess its why we rebelled against you long ago.
 
catsmate said:
So what? Not everyone grovels to the Big Book of Bronze Age Campfire Stories.

I see you're back to spewing straw.
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Criminalizing non-violent, non-threatening speech that harms NOBODY, is the path to Nazism or Stalinism.

Its not a strawman.
 
catsmate said:
Obviously. After all "free speech" is far more important than people being killed.....
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Offensive strawman. Ironic huh?

However I dont want your offensive words to be criminalized of punished, cuz I can take hurtful words without demanding consequences.
 
It's the usual BS. Someone like this claims they were arrested for just using hurtful words, then it turns out they were inciting violence or making death threats, or trying to cause a mistrial in a child abuse case. But there were always be useful idiots like Hercules56 to parrot their nonsense, and hopefully make a nice donation to fund their next trip abroad.
 
I guess the UK and the USA have VERY different standards as to what qualifies as to "inciting violence".

One standard seeks to only prosecute TRUE threats of immediate violence, while the other seeks to persecute prosecute mere fantasy.

No, saying "all Muslims are stupid and must be deported!!!", should not be considered a criminal act. Its ridiculous to think otherwise.
 
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Hercules56 said:
I guess the UK and the USA have VERY different standards as to what qualifies as to "inciting violence".

One standard seeks to only prosecute TRUE threats of immediate violence, while the other seeks to persecute prosecute mere fantasy.

No, saying "all Muslims are stupid and must be deported!!!", should not be considered a criminal act. Its ridiculous to think otherwise.
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Look we get it your country is going to hell and you need to try and feel better by pretending other places are worse but no one is buying your ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.
 
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