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Would a Republican government turn its back on Ukraine?

I Am The Scum

Philosopher
I Am The Scum
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
5,416
Suppose Republicans take the House and Senate by 2024. Suppose that Donald Trump wins a second term. Suppose further that the war in Ukraine remains just as hot by that time.

Would a Republican-controlled government stifle aid to Ukraine? Would sanctions against Russia be reversed? Would Trump try to pull us out of NATO?

I have my own thoughts on the matter, but I'll let others comment.
 
Depends on what they can leverage out of Ukraine by withholding aide. That is a legal and accepted strategy for the republican party after all.

The question is clearly how much the want things from Ukraine and if Ukraine will give into their demands.
 
Of course.

The current support comes from pressure by the 'defense' industry, which delights in upgrading the equipment of NATO countries which have sent their outdated equipment to Ukraine. But that not going to continue.
Arguably, US weapons manufacturers will make more money if Ukraine loses than if it wins.

And, of course, the GQP Patron Saint Donald, First Of His Name, will get behind Putin's ass as soon as expedient, and the rest of the GQP will pretend that they never liked Ukraine in the first place.
 
I think a Republican Congress will stop aiding Ukraine. I think a President Trump will declare war on Ukraine.
 
To my eye, the Republicans are quite split on the issue. There's still plenty of anti-Russia sentiment in the more long-timer wings of the party, but Trump's little clique of neo-fascists are much more open to an isolationist world view, plus you have to consider how Ukraine/Russia play into all the various Q conspiracy theories.

If Trump were leading it I think it's very hard to predict considering how easily persuaded he seems to be on issues that aren't his personal hobbyhorses.
 
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Yes or no.

It just depends on which Conspiracy Theory they go with. That's not something that can be predicted with much confidence, but the CT movement generally leans pro-Russian.

And more and more the Republican Party is becoming the Conspiracy Theory party. There are still many GOP politicians who have opinions based on actual facts or philosophy or tradition or what, but the CT wing of the party gets stronger everyday.
 
I Am The Scum said:
Suppose Republicans take the House and Senate by 2024. Suppose that Donald Trump wins a second term. Suppose further that the war in Ukraine remains just as hot by that time.

Would a Republican-controlled government stifle aid to Ukraine? Would sanctions against Russia be reversed? Would Trump try to pull us out of NATO?

I have my own thoughts on the matter, but I'll let others comment.
Click to expand...

I expect that it all depends upon which way Trump decides to jump.

If Trump goes back to his original Putin butt-kissing, then I expect that nearly all of the Republicans will turn against Ukraine.

On the other hand, if Trump decides to stand up to Putin for once, then I expect that nearly all of the other Republicans will support Ukraine.
 
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The ******* ground level Maga idiots will believe whatever they are told to believe.
 
crescent said:
Yes or no.

It just depends on which Conspiracy Theory they go with. That's not something that can be predicted with much confidence, but the CT movement generally leans pro-Russian.

And more and more the Republican Party is becoming the Conspiracy Theory party. There are still many GOP politicians who have opinions based on actual facts or philosophy or tradition or what, but the CT wing of the party gets stronger everyday.
Click to expand...

This is pretty close to my thoughts.

Others have pointed out that Ukraine support polls highly (even among Republicans), but the right-wing populace has been an extremely fickle and unprincipled lot. Personal moral issues (such as marital infidelity) used to be a major qualification for a Republican candidate. Now, the right will look the other way. Balancing the budget used to be paramount. Now, they'll gladly blow it up.

I can easily imagine a series of events going like this:

1. Some rando on Twitter makes up a conspiracy theory that Zelensky stole the 2020 election for Biden.
2. Tucker Carlson reports on it like it's a fact.
3. The claim becomes God's honest truth as far as right-wing social media is concerned.
4. Trump shares it on his (Musk-restored) Twitter account.
5. Republicans fall in line, and Ukraine becomes the enemy of the people.
 
If Trump wins the presidency, the entire GOP (except maybe one or two members of Congress) would follow his lead whatever that is. If he said “Zelenskyy didn’t help me with my campaign. Can you believe that? He did a lot of bad things. A LOT of bad things. I can’t tell you how bad but when I spoke to Vlad, he said Sir! - he called me sir - he said Sir, there’s a lot of Nazis in Ukraine. A lot of Nazis. Nobody knows this but Russia was in a war against the Nazis back in World War Two - they were on our side, on our side! Nobody knows this but it’s true. And Hunter Biden was helping the Nazis. I would have won - well I did win - but I would have won even bigger without Zelensky….”

Tucker Carlson will go full on Triumph of the Will.

Also, has DeSantis said anything about Ukraine? Seems he has only said that it is Biden’s fault.

I expect either Trump or DeSantis will run with Tulsi Gabbard as their running mate.
 
I Am The Scum said:
This is pretty close to my thoughts.

Others have pointed out that Ukraine support polls highly (even among Republicans), but the right-wing populace has been an extremely fickle and unprincipled lot. Personal moral issues (such as marital infidelity) used to be a major qualification for a Republican candidate. Now, the right will look the other way. Balancing the budget used to be paramount. Now, they'll gladly blow it up.

I can easily imagine a series of events going like this:

1. Some rando on Twitter makes up a conspiracy theory that Zelensky stole the 2020 election for Biden.
2. Tucker Carlson reports on it like it's a fact.
3. The claim becomes God's honest truth as far as right-wing social media is concerned.
4. Trump shares it on his (Musk-restored) Twitter account.
5. Republicans fall in line, and Ukraine becomes the enemy of the people.
Click to expand...

Cross-posted but pretty much exactly this, although with DeSantis as a spare.
 
Crossbow said:
I expect that it all depends upon which way Trump decides to jump.

If Trump goes back to his original Putin butt-kissing, then I expect that nearly all of the Republicans will turn against Ukraine.

On the other hand, if Trump decides to stand up to Putin for once, then I expect that nearly all of the other Republicans will support Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Pretty much true, but there is one more issue to consider. Putin, or at least his government, is pretty much an ideological twin to the US religious right. Most of the things the religious right are tying to push though in the US have been implemented in Russia over the last 2 decades. This includes laws restricting people from even talking about the existence gay and transgender people, integration of religion into government policy and more restrictive abortion laws.
 
Yes, to turning their back on Ukraine

Yes, to pulling out of NATO

Anyone who thinks they wouldn't do it is lying to themself
 
Trump would pull out of Ukraine faster than he pulled out of Stormy Daniels.
 
100% yes. The Orange Blob would want revenge on Zelenskyy for not folding to his extortion attempts by providing him with the dirt he wanted on Biden
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
To my eye, the Republicans are quite split on the issue.
Click to expand...
They were also "split on the issue" about what to do about Trump post Jan6. And we all see how that worked out.

Never dismiss a republican's willingness to abandon any principles or integrity in the pursuit of power in the easiest manner.
 
Also Republicans are masters at being a split party... right up until the second it actually matters or makes a difference of any kind.
 
ANd then they can watch the American economy collapse because America will become a pariah nation.
 
Yes.

Here’s why.

Imagine it is July 2018 and you are V. Putin.
You are about to go into a two hour meeting with #45 and none of his aides will be present.

Which of the following things would you not say?

1 Donald, you and I are two of the most powerful people in the history of the world
2 and we each started with nothing only to rise to to very top
3 you and I are two people who know what it is like for every woman in the world to want to have sex with us
4 your cabinet and staff cannot understand how great a person you are -they can fathom the depths of your genius
5 therefore it is your job to tell them the best approach to every issue. You cannot rely on the limited minds of the little people. Giants like you and I have all the answers.
6 these little people will try to destroy you by telling lies. For instance, the lie that I interfered in the 2016 election and that I will interfere in the 2020 election.
7 I’ve set aside some prime real estate in central Moscow for you to build Trump Tower. I look forward to living in that building.

……
Now, why would President Chucklehead ever stop worshipping Putin?
FFS, #45 called the invasion a genius maneuver. How could anyone doubt where #45’s loyalties lie?
 
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crescent said:
It just depends on which Conspiracy Theory they go with. That's not something that can be predicted with much confidence, but the CT movement generally leans pro-Russian.
Click to expand...

I think you have their decision making order mixed up.
First they make the decision, based on contrarianism rather than policy then they generate\recycle the conspiracy theories
 
Mongrel said:
I think you have their decision making order mixed up.
First they make the decision, based on contrarianism rather than policy then they generate\recycle the conspiracy theories
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:
 
Stacyhs said:
Would that be before, during, or after Trump fires Patriot missiles into Mexico's drug labs?
Click to expand...

Simultaneously - he's a great multi-tasker, the best. Poeple have told him so. "Sir," they have said, they always call him 'Sir', "You are the best multi-tasker in the world!".
 
I Am The Scum said:
Suppose Republicans take the House and Senate by 2024. Suppose that Donald Trump wins a second term. Suppose further that the war in Ukraine remains just as hot by that time.

Would a Republican-controlled government stifle aid to Ukraine? Would sanctions against Russia be reversed? Would Trump try to pull us out of NATO?

I have my own thoughts on the matter, but I'll let others comment.
Click to expand...

America would turn its aid over to Russia or more specifically Putin as he is the undeclared leader of the Republican Party. Women and minorities would lose most rights they have in the USA, and in the case of women, several states will revoke a pregnant woman's right to life should she make the mistake and turn up with an ectopic pregnancy.

https://www.insider.com/missouri-seeks-to-ban-abortion-for-ectopic-pregnancies-new-bill-2022-3

Note, in most cases, unless you get rid of the misplaced fetus, ectopic pregnancies are fatal.
 
Crossbow said:
On the other hand, if Trump decides to stand up to Putin for once, then I expect that nearly all of the other Republicans will support Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Trump will never turn on Putin, as Putin knows where the "bodies are buried" including the underage girls.
 
I Am The Scum said:
This is pretty close to my thoughts.

Others have pointed out that Ukraine support polls highly (even among Republicans), but the right-wing populace has been an extremely fickle and unprincipled lot. Personal moral issues (such as marital infidelity) used to be a major qualification for a Republican candidate. Now, the right will look the other way. Balancing the budget used to be paramount. Now, they'll gladly blow it up.
Click to expand...

Polls, and elections will mean nothing in a Republican controlled government, as the old guard will be rounded up and silenced.
 
Here's a good backgrounder on US support for Ukraine over the last decade or so. Spoiler:

Obama was much worse on arms sales to Ukraine than Trump, even in the aftermath of the annexation of the Crimea.

Then-president Barack Obama, while providing millions of dollars in aid, resisted sending lethal support, fearing that such a military buildup might provoke Putin to strike.
Click to expand...

Snip

Yet in 2018, with Donald Trump as president, the U.S. reversed course and agreed to provide Ukraine with $47 million worth of lethal weapons, which included 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles and 37 launchers.
Click to expand...



Now you can argue that you'd don't poke the bear, but then why is Biden willing to do so?
 
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