I guess that rivalry is true after all. Kiwis will get you next year.
It may be that attitude that makes you happier.
World Happiness Rankings: 2024
- Thread starter angrysoba
- Start date
It may be that attitude that makes you happier.
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
I can see a country that ranks eight places higher than mine from my chair. I know I'd be happier if I could move there.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I am not understanding how Israel is in the top ten, as I was terrified the whole time I was there, apart from a day in Tel Aviv, with their beautiful beaches. When our tourist party crossed over the West Bank to see Bethlehem and the famous sepulchre I was looking around expecting angry Palestinians any moment. On the coach trip to the Golan Heights a group of armed Israeli policemen boarded at one point, closely looking into everybody's faces. Landscape was a whole bunch of flattened villages. At the Garden of Getsemane, walking down from the famous Mount (actually a hill) a car screamed to a halt behind us and a guy jumped out admonishing us, "Why won't you buy my wares?' . Thankfully, he was no more threatening than that. Worst of all, whilst we were there, two or three Rabbis were butchered at a synagogue (this was a few years ago). I was so glad to land safely at Heathrow again. Even when one of our group dashed across the road for a street seller, the tour guide freaked out and said, don't separate from our group like that! Strangely, I felt most relaxed on the Palestinian side, the jewellery and leather goods market were great and the Palestinains really nice friendly guys (as were the Israelis, who taught us Israeli dance). But I don't see how living in fear of terrorists and rocket attacks any moment can make for a 'happy' country!I was wondering about that one, too. Maybe Israelis are good at returning wallets - unless they belong to Palestinians.
There's something else about Israelis that I was reminded of in late 2024 when Israeli football fans clashed with (not only) protesters in several European cities: the reputation of Israelis abroad! At first the clashes were blamed on antisemitism, but the media reports began to change when the Israelis turned out to have been the instigators.
One thing is football fans in general. Hooliganism is well-known. And the Israelis may have been provoked by Palestinian flags in 2024. (But why would they provoke them to that extent?)
But try googling "Israeli tourists"! It's not a new thing. And it's not due to antisemitism. When I was teaching English and German to Danish hotel receptionist students in the late 1980s, one class told me that, of all nationalities, Israeli hotel guests were the absolute worst. And when I questioned the reason for this, the one who had mentioned it said: 'I don't know, but [a name I don't remember] can confirm it, and she's a Jew.'
And she did confirm it. It was not due to antisemitism. They said that American Jews were well liked. But Israeli, not Jewish, travellers abroad tended to be more obnoxious than average.
Is it possible that the feeling of unity, togetherness, a desire to help each other (but not outsiders; on the contrary) is what makes Israelis happier than average but also hostile towards other peoples?
I'm hypothesizing. I don't know.
Would Germans, Italians and the Japanese have been happier than most other nationalities in the 1930s?
I also don't know.
Post-WW2 Danes didn't miss the German occupation as such, but in the '60s and '70s, you could hear the elderly miss the feeling of togetherness during WW2, of having something in common, i.e. the common enemy.
As quoted above in post 75, the CNN article speculates: “Those [
] are individuals caring about the people with whom they live." In the case of the Nordics, however, I don't think it stops there, i.e. with "the people with whom they live."
This may also be the reason why Nordic football fans tend to be less aggressive those of (some) other nations.
Again: I don't know.
Could this have something to do with it?
Based on my experience with Cubans and other Latin Americans, I think that they tend to have a high "sense of community and social connection." Higher, in fact, than people in Nordic countries, which may make up for their lack of material wealth and even peace.
I don't know about Japan in this respect.
It just occurs to me that people lacking in empathy don't seem to be particularly happy in spite of all their worldly goods. People like Musk and Trump, for instance. They are as far from kind that it's possible to get.
As for 'happiness' being to do with being with people around you, I am not seeing that, either. Newspapers, too, are speculating it's to do with households of four to five people 'caring for each other'. Well whilst that might be typical for a young family with two or three kids, here in my part of 'happy' Finland something like 50% of people live alone! (Many of them students, admittedly.) Whilst in countries, such a Japan and the USA, it is not unusual to have two or three generations of a family in the same household; in Japan because housing is so scarce and extremely expensive, and in the USA because of ridiculous medical bills and cost of higher education, in Finland - and also, Sweden - it is customary for young people to leave home at age 16 to 18, either to gain independence, do their military service and move out, or for higher education, so it cannot be said that four or five person households are the reason for the happiness index. I would say the reverse is true. People are happy because they have lots of personal space. They can go out jogging or hiking without having to bump into loads of other people, as in London. They don't have to compete with masses of other people in their commute to work. Because necessity is the mother of invention, as it were, having relatively extreme climates in the winter months, means having technically advanced buildings and communications systems. It is no coincidence the mobile phone networks were developed most rapidly under these northern skies; buildings are absolutely solid, air-conditioned, triple glazed and 100% draught-free.
Having lived in both the UK and Finland, I can attest that whilst I love London to bits because of the civilisation - the happiness hits as soon as one steps into Heathrow, with the sound of happy London cheeriness - the infrastructure is crumbling. Whilst its buildings look grand from the outside and the architecture amazing, mostly the rot is covered by impressive stucco and twirly bits. A wealthy friend of mine has a lovely town house in Bloomsbury, beautiful spacious architecture in a prime location and postcode to die for, but my dears, they have had to tolerate frightful flooding from above, seeping down to the basement, causing so much disruption, they had to relocate to their pile in Norfolk whilst it was being fixed. And that is what I remember growing up, draughts, no matter how much you tried to warm the place up, the water tank causing huge bulges in the ceiling every now and then, followed by steady flooding, broken pipes in freezing weather, chilblains bursting onto sheets so needing to wrap feet in towels, unable to put shoes on due to same, eczema at the back of my knees and front of my elbows so bad, I couldn't bend them without great pain: everything I associate with terrible infrastructure. Colds and flu ocassionally turning into bronchitis, thanks to the notoriously damp British climate. Since I have lived in Finland, my asthma and occasionally recurring eczema have vanished completely! I am completely stress free and haven't a care in the world! The only stress really, is when the snow and ice are so bad, and you need to go out somewhere with the car. The extreme winters were the only shock. In England, if it snows, it only last two or three days and then you're fine! Last winter, in Finland the snow went on nigh on three months. Even in March, going out for a walk, there were huge ice balls by the road side. (This year, we have had hardly any snow at all!) But we have the sauna which brings succour to our lives on the darkest days, which can be daylight from circa 9:00am to 3:00pm. Newspapers reflecting good old British envy always make sure to mention Finland being 'dark and cold' but they fail to state that it is only above the Arctic Circle (further north than Rovaniemi) that it gets dark all day and then only for a short period of time. Because, conversely, we have almost all day daylight in summer! There is also the nature and the beautiful skies, due to the sun setting low on the horizon.
I dislike tourist board-type fantasizing and nationalistic nonsense. Most Finns find it hilarious that they are supposed to be 'happy'. I think 'content' is more a better description. Because people have often had to be highly practical and self-sufficient, that conveys a quiet sense of self-confidence and self-reliance, in that you don't have to ingratiate yourself with various people to feel safe and secure.
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arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
No invitation - Scandinavia and the World
Webcomic: They’re finally here! Finland and Iceland (and Germany)! The joke behind this is that everybody agrees that Sweden, Norway and
satwcomic.com
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
The idea of national stereotypes is all rather silly. It's all a form of oneupmanship. My Norwegian friend gets very angry when Finland is described as 'Scandinavian'. This is because she teaches languages and I daresay she sees the languages of Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Iceland as 'Scandinavian'. Indeed, Norwegian studies at Uni London are classed under German Studies. Poor old Finnish is shoved under the School of Slavonic and East European Studies (SSEES) but is not Slavic either and politically it is western Europe not East Europe (although geographically it is quite far east). But if we are going to look at geography - as 'Scandinavian' refers to the Scandinavian Peninsula [the sticking out bit at the top of Europe] - then neither Denmark nor Iceland qualifies as 'Scandinavian', either. But hey, Finland does, as the very top part of the country that extends across into Sweden and Norway is geographically part of the Scandinavian mountain range, ergo Finland is geographically Scandinavian, but not Denmark nor Iceland.
As for the annoying stereotype of the Finn as the taciturn suicidal guy with a knife, drinking Koskenkorva, that stereotype went out with the immediate post-war era, when most of Europe was in a state of PTSD, depression and rebuilding, except for the 'neutral' countries who stayed out of it (Sweden, I am saying nothing) . Haha, but our dear cousins the Swedes like to think of themselves as our big brother, but hey we carried you and protected you from the Russians. ...And who won the hockey, anyway..?
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arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
This is covered in a fair bit of detail in the many-year history of the comic, and with more humour (and homosexuality).
The Nordic (not Scandinavian) Council: Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, the Faroe Islands, Greenland and Åland. The latter is Finnish (in about the same way that the Faroe Islands and Greenland are Danish) but the official language is Swedish.
Danes, Norwegians and Swedes understand each other's languages to some extent, but we often resort to English as the Nordic lingua franca.
Icelandic and Faroese may be Nordic languages, but Scandinavians understand them about as well as native speakers of English would understand somebody speaking Old English.
Finnish and Greenlandic are not only not (North) Germanic languages. They aren't even Indoeuropean.
Danes, Norwegians and Swedes understand each other's languages to some extent, but we often resort to English as the Nordic lingua franca.
Icelandic and Faroese may be Nordic languages, but Scandinavians understand them about as well as native speakers of English would understand somebody speaking Old English.
Finnish and Greenlandic are not only not (North) Germanic languages. They aren't even Indoeuropean.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
This might explain how the happiness quotient works.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
'Greenland is to Denmark as Åland is to Finland' is not really a fitting analogy. Whilst 86% of Åland is Swedish-speaking, and indeed, Swedish is the only official language, plus it has an autonomous government, nonetheless, geographically, it is Finnish, as part of the archipelago and in the same relatively shallow waters. When I was there not long ago, people had no problem understanding or speaking Finnish, I think the fact they identify as Swedish is more to do with a small handful of flag-waving elitists, who managed to persuade people to vote and lobby for them at the time. It's demilitarized now but come any war situation it will be as heavily militarised, as it was during the Crimean War, (cf the Battle of Bomarsund), when Finland and the Ålands were a part of Tsarist Russia and the war was Britain & France ~vs~ Russia. This time round it'll be Finland and Ålands against Russia.
In addition, Greenlanders are a separate ethnic group to the Danes, with 50:50 Y- and Q-haplotypes versus predominantly R, respectively. Finns are 50% N1 haplotype. However, there is bigger division between West and East Finland than there is between West Finland and Sweden, with the I1a-haplotype making an appearance in 35% of the west-side population, as is common in Sweden and Norway. Not to mention the fact Finland and Sweden were once one empire for nigh on 800 years (i.e., below the so-called Noteburg line, which strangely, follows the same east-west divide as the genetic difference).
Does ethnicity have anything to do with 'happiness'? You could say that - as an example - with the Scots being renowned as being 'dour', perhaps the UK happiness index would rise were the Scots element to be excluded.
<fx deep US warning voice> "Vixen, don't go there!"
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Ryan O'Dine
OD’ing on Damitol
What I hear you saying is that to increase one's happiness, one should cut down everyone else's trees.
Thermal
August Member
Pretty sure, if number of trees is the barometer, the United States should be in a perpetual state of orgasm?
Ryan O'Dine
OD’ing on Damitol
Aren't we? Oh wait, I'm thinking of hangovers. Nevermind.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Heh heh.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Does that include high school shooters and suicide by cop...?
Don't think that would bump Finland up to the top of the list
Thermal
August Member
My personal happiness ranking just dropped several notches. I looked at the thread title, and realized that I wasn't sure if the current year was 2024. I thought for a few minutes and couldn't recall if it was 2024 or 2025. I went to the search bar preparing to type in "what year is it?" and had an existential breakdown. What is my life coming to? I wish I was joking.
A Danish article linked to the new Unicef report of children's well-being. I haven't seen links to it anywhere else, but I didn't search for it yet:
Børns trivsel er faldet markant siden covid, slår Unicef fast i ny rapport (DR.dk, May 14, 2025)
Children's well-being has deteriorated considerably since Covid, according to new Unicef report
However, the paragraph Covid-konsekvenser (Covid consequences) in the Danish article mentions only lockdowns. The consequences of the disease itself are not considered at all. I would really like to see statistics of the level of C19 infections in children and the direct impact of those infections on children's well-being, but it doesn't seem to concern anybody.
You can find the UNICEF article here:
#2 Denmark
#10 Sweden
#17 Finland
#22 Iceland
Along with four other countries, Australia, Belgium, Israel, and USA, there are no data for Norway in the category mental health, so those five countries haven't been ranked, but Norway is doing pretty well in the categories physical health and skills.
Børns trivsel er faldet markant siden covid, slår Unicef fast i ny rapport (DR.dk, May 14, 2025)
Children's well-being has deteriorated considerably since Covid, according to new Unicef report
However, the paragraph Covid-konsekvenser (Covid consequences) in the Danish article mentions only lockdowns. The consequences of the disease itself are not considered at all. I would really like to see statistics of the level of C19 infections in children and the direct impact of those infections on children's well-being, but it doesn't seem to concern anybody.
You can find the UNICEF article here:
The ranking of the five Nordic countries (well ... four of them) is:
#2 Denmark
#10 Sweden
#17 Finland
#22 Iceland
Along with four other countries, Australia, Belgium, Israel, and USA, there are no data for Norway in the category mental health, so those five countries haven't been ranked, but Norway is doing pretty well in the categories physical health and skills.
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Canada ranked 19th out of 36 countries in child well-being, UNICEF says (CBC.ca, May 14, 2025)
UNICEF: Children in the Netherlands have the best wellbeing in the world (IAmExpat.nl, May 15, 2025)
Japan ranks 14th in UNICEF report on child well-being (NHK World, Japan, May 14, 2025)
UNICEF report: Child well-being has declined since pandemic, Romania ranks well in mental health but low in physical health (Romania Insider, May 14, 2025)
Korean kids top academics, near bottom in physical, mental health: Unicef (Korea Joonang Daily, May 14, 2025)
UK near bottom of child happiness and wellbeing league table (Sky News, May 14, 2025)
British teenagers among world's unhappiest (Telegraph, May 14, 2025)
Irish teens among least happy in developed world - report (RTE.ie, May 14, 2025)
Irish teens 'succeeding in school but struggling in life' (TheJournal.ie, May 14, 2025)
Finland slips in UNICEF's Child Well-Being ranking (Daily Finland, May 14, 2025)
New Zealand ranks near bottom for child wellbeing in new Unicef report (Stuff.co.nz, May 14, 2025)
New Zealand has highest child suicide rate, a survey of wealthy countries shows (RNZ.co.nz, May 15, 2025)
Hmmm, is it possible that the mainstream media in the USA just doesn't give a ◊◊◊◊ about children's well-being?
USA ranks #38 in physical health and #29 in skills. As mentioned in the previous post: no data for the USA in the mental-health category.
And how about Australia?!
UNICEF: Children in the Netherlands have the best wellbeing in the world (IAmExpat.nl, May 15, 2025)
Japan ranks 14th in UNICEF report on child well-being (NHK World, Japan, May 14, 2025)
UNICEF report: Child well-being has declined since pandemic, Romania ranks well in mental health but low in physical health (Romania Insider, May 14, 2025)
Korean kids top academics, near bottom in physical, mental health: Unicef (Korea Joonang Daily, May 14, 2025)
UK near bottom of child happiness and wellbeing league table (Sky News, May 14, 2025)
British teenagers among world's unhappiest (Telegraph, May 14, 2025)
Irish teens among least happy in developed world - report (RTE.ie, May 14, 2025)
Irish teens 'succeeding in school but struggling in life' (TheJournal.ie, May 14, 2025)
Finland slips in UNICEF's Child Well-Being ranking (Daily Finland, May 14, 2025)
New Zealand ranks near bottom for child wellbeing in new Unicef report (Stuff.co.nz, May 14, 2025)
New Zealand has highest child suicide rate, a survey of wealthy countries shows (RNZ.co.nz, May 15, 2025)
Hmmm, is it possible that the mainstream media in the USA just doesn't give a ◊◊◊◊ about children's well-being?
USA ranks #38 in physical health and #29 in skills. As mentioned in the previous post: no data for the USA in the mental-health category.
And how about Australia?!
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Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
I was disappointed with the UNICEF report's presentation, both on the web page and the PDF. For almost all the graphs they limited the number of countries reported on to 42—and each graph contains a different set of countries! So I was unable, for example, to see how well Canada fared on many aspects because it wasn't included in a graph. 
Link to report's web page
Link to PDF (English)
Link to report's web page
Link to PDF (English)
The limited number is no coincidence, see post 100: "In this report, 43 countries in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and the European Union (EU) are ranked ..."
But you are right about (most of) the other graphs - especially on the web page.
The first one, UNICEF Innocenti ranking of child well-being in OECD and EU countries, lists 41 countries, but only 36 of them are ranked. This was also mentioned in post 100.
The second graph, Changes in high life satisfaction in 15-year-olds, shows the same 36 countries ranked.
The third graph has 41 countries, but it names only every second country, which is both weird and annoying.
And the rest of the graphs also names only every second country - not always the same countries.
I wonder if it's due to some kind of layout glitch. It doesn't seem to be something you would do on purpose.
I have only skimmed the PDF version, but I think it's a pity that some of the graphs are based on the kids' own impression of their skills, e.g.:
Figure 20: Children who felt (!) they could tell if a website is trustworthy, 10-year-olds.
It shouldn't be too difficult to measure this objectively, i.e. find out if they can actually tell truth from propaganda lies.
So far, I have only found this in the U.S. media:
UNICEF: Western children took multiple hits to their wellbeing from COVID-19 (UPI/yahoo!news, May 14, 2025)
In spite of the headline, it not about children's wellbeing being impacted directly by the virus.
But you are right about (most of) the other graphs - especially on the web page.
The first one, UNICEF Innocenti ranking of child well-being in OECD and EU countries, lists 41 countries, but only 36 of them are ranked. This was also mentioned in post 100.
The second graph, Changes in high life satisfaction in 15-year-olds, shows the same 36 countries ranked.
The third graph has 41 countries, but it names only every second country, which is both weird and annoying.
And the rest of the graphs also names only every second country - not always the same countries.
I wonder if it's due to some kind of layout glitch. It doesn't seem to be something you would do on purpose.
I have only skimmed the PDF version, but I think it's a pity that some of the graphs are based on the kids' own impression of their skills, e.g.:
Figure 20: Children who felt (!) they could tell if a website is trustworthy, 10-year-olds.
It shouldn't be too difficult to measure this objectively, i.e. find out if they can actually tell truth from propaganda lies.
So far, I have only found this in the U.S. media:
UNICEF: Western children took multiple hits to their wellbeing from COVID-19 (UPI/yahoo!news, May 14, 2025)
In spite of the headline, it not about children's wellbeing being impacted directly by the virus.
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
I missed that detail. Thanks for pointing it out.
However, in my opinion it's very poor presentation.
