Woman who burned herself on Dunkin’ coffee settles for $3 million

[Puppycow]

It's not impossible, and may prefer it piping hot. But more to the point, the temperature drops rapidly after it hits the paper cup and is out in the open, so I guess the idea is that it might be a few minutes before the takeout user gets to actually drink it, so it has a few minutes to cool down to more palatable?

The volume of liquid is also important, not just the temperature.

Within a few seconds of pouring it into a cup, you can take small sips off the top. A big gulp would burn you, of course, but sipping a little bit from the topmost layer is fine.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Note that I never suggested that she did it intentionally.

Perhaps you didn't intend it, but yes you did.

Now you have established that if you were a god you would punish people for thought crimes.

What's the point of knowing what's in the hearts of men if you can't act on it? The Christian god doesn't shy away from His duty, and I wouldn't either. Every one of those Deplorables would get a non-refundable one-way ticket to Hell.

 

[Puppycow]

Perhaps you didn't intend it, but yes you did.

Then it should be easy for you to back up that assertion by quoting me. Show me where I suggested that she did it intentionally.

What's the point of knowing what's in the hearts of men if you can't act on it? The Christian god doesn't shy away from His duty, and I wouldn't either. Every one of those Deplorables would get a non-refundable one-way ticket to Hell.

If everyone who ever had a bad thought were to be damned to hell, regardless of whether they actually acted on the thought, we'd all be damned.

 

[jeremyp]

If everyone who ever had a bad thought were to be damned to hell, regardless of whether they actually acted on the thought, we'd all be damned.

I’m pretty sure that’s exactly the thesis of Christianity and that’s also what Roger was alluding to.

 

[catsmate]

And then the proper procedure is to let them cool a bit before drinking them carefully, not seize the teapot and pour it directly onto one's genitals in a moving car. At least, they never did it that way on Downton Abbey, except for Matthew, and look what happened to him when he did!

True. The proper way to apply hot tea to the genitals is to soak a small towel or cloth in the tea, and then twist it around the (male) genitalia.
Of course youu'd need to remove the cage first.

 

[catsmate]

The volume of liquid is also important, not just the temperature.

Within a few seconds of pouring it into a cup, you can take small sips off the top. A big gulp would burn you, of course, but sipping a little bit from the topmost layer is fine.

In addition to evaporative cooling there is also the additio of old milk or ice chips.

 

[ponderingturtle]

It wasn't stupid or frivolous, and you are perpetuating the stupidity.

Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants160-185, not 180-190.

Face it, you're wrong. Your temperature range is higher than the actual temperature at Starbucks and other places.

The idea that this incident is just a case of 'crap happens' is wrong too. When coffee is being served at a dangerous temperature it's not 'crap happens' if someone gets 3rd degree burns from it. Even if every vendor on the planet served their coffee at 190 °F that wouldn't make it safe, and "but everybody else does it too!" is not a valid defense.

Until/unless outfits like McDonald's, Starbucks and Dunkin' et al. lower the temperature of their coffee there will continue to be lawsuits like this, and they will be justified. Unfortunately that means the news media will continue to breathlessly report 'huge' settlements with a veiled (or overt) implication that they are opportunistic shakedowns - and the usual bunch of idiots will still fall for it.

Not that I'm calling you an idiot. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to figure out the truth - you just chose not to.

Trusting 70 year Olds with freshly brewed coffee is clearly a negligent act. Freshly brewed coffee is to dangerous to trust the public with, it must be held until it cools to safe temperatures.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Certainly. Auto manufacturers have been sued for all sorts of problems, and often these end in a settlement. Of course, you need a plausible reason to blame the manufacturer if there's an accident. It can't be because you willfully disobeyed traffic laws, typically.

If they limited speeds to 10 mph there would be much fewer deaths, so clearly the manufacturers are responsible for the deaths due to excessive if legal speeds, like the excessively hot freshly brewed coffee here.

 

[ponderingturtle]

No. It's not like on TV and movies: healing truly serious burns is not something easily done or completely done with our current level of medicine and technology. You'd be looking at permanent damage, permanent disfigurement, and permanent loss of functionality. Burns are terrible things. There is a reason why so many ancient religions posited hell as being a place of fire.

Which is why we should ban the sale of hot beverages.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I dunno if the job description is barista and I don’t know if they have thermometers, but they probably have thermostats.

Let’s say, and I am ignorant here of the whole case, that Dunkin Donuts were found to have thermostats set too high for industry standard. Let’s say they had a paper trail of complaints and warnings about their coffee’s temperature, and then let’s say they ignored the recommendations they received. Then finally someone ends up with horrific life-altering burns. Does anyone really think Dunkin Donura should not get sued?

That tends to be how these things play out in real life but usually we only hear the last chapter and think “oh stupid old lady outing coffee in her lap and surprised it’s hot! Then sues company cos Murica!”

And forget about expresso that is far to dangerous for human consumption.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Coffee, and especially tea, need to be hot to properly brew

Hence why freshly brewed coffee is not fit for human consumption and should be illegal.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

If you can't serve a customer without being afraid you might seriously hurt them, yes it is too hot.

Yes, I know they often have seriously hot food served in restaurants, but that's generally served on tables, not peoples' laps.

 

[ponderingturtle]

If you can't serve a customer without being afraid you might seriously hurt them, yes it is too hot.

Yes, I know they often have seriously hot food served in restaurants, but that's generally served on tables, not peoples' laps.

So as regulations are written in blood what should the regulations here be?

 

[angrysoba]

And forget about expresso that is far to dangerous for human consumption.

Way back in my youth, before Starbucks was heard of in the UK, I used to work in a cafe at an airport. British customers asking for “expresso” was always a red flag. Unfortunately espresso was five pence cheaper than large filtered coffee so customers would ask for an “expresso”. When they received it they would invariably complain that it was too small and wanted a big one.

When they did I would hurl it at their groins.

 

[Puppycow]

Way back in my youth, before Starbucks was heard of in the UK, I used to work in a cafe at an airport. British customers asking for “expresso” was always a red flag. Unfortunately espresso was five pence cheaper than large filtered coffee so customers would ask for an “expresso”. When they received it they would invariably complain that it was too small and wanted a big one.

When they did I would hurl it at their groins.

Not British but I have to admit that I probably thought it was "expresso" when I was younger. In my youth there was only "coffee" at most establishments. Nobody had yet figured out to use various fancy foreign words to label it.

 

[catsmate]

Hence why freshly brewed coffee is not fit for human consumption and should be illegal.

Or, at the risk of introducing a speck of reality into your assertions, it could be allowed to cool, or served in a suitable container.

 

[Chanakya]

I've looked on this thing as an instance of Karen's paradise, and a completely weird litigatory environment. (Not that I've given it much/any deliberate thought, but that was definitely my opinion of it.)

Well, having very recently been at the receiving end of it, I've completely changed my mind.

Had been out in a group, and for the moment holding a small child on my lap. My coffee turns over, THANKFULLY the baby was untouched, and my left leg and foot got all it, squarely. Not pleasant. But, and although my first reaction was complete relief that the baby was unhurt; but no big deal really, nothing scalded, no damage to me.

And that's how it should be. Hot enough to be good and nice, but not so hot as to burn and scald. That hot is ******* criminal, it can ******* HURT a child, and hurt an adult as well for that matter. Not a joke. And not necessarily the customer's negligence, might well be a genuine accident that he/she couldn't help, and can't be blamed for.

Good she got the 3M. They should have fined the establishment another 30M, to be donated to a fund earmarked for raising awareness on this specific issue, and to help finance other such cases for crippling damages. Even if that means that establishment goes bankrupt in the process.

A few such exemplary damages, preferably completely crippling damages, and no other coffee seller will dare to treat this issue cavalierly.

I used to think this case a joke. I don't any more.

 

[HansMustermann]

If you can't serve a customer without being afraid you might seriously hurt them, yes it is too hot.

LMAO. Dude... like... duude... *takes a long puff out of the joint*... DUUDE. Then you can't sell a car to a customer, because they might drive it straight into a wall. (It's happened.)

Like, literally, between someone having an accident with their new car on the first year, and someone scalding their crotch with coffee by trying to squeeze it between their thighs to fiddle with the lid, the former thousands of times per year vs the latter being like once every decade at best.

Yes, I know they often have seriously hot food served in restaurants, but that's generally served on tables, not peoples' laps.

Which is kinda the point. I doubt that the restaurant shoved it between her legs. I mean, Í've shopped at McDonald, Burger King, and several Chinese / Italian / Dönner / whatever restaurants for decades, and I don't remember them serving ANYTHING directly to my crotch

It's like protesting that some restaurants sell vodka (40% alcohol by volume) or even absynthe (70%) or even Everclear (95%), but if you spill any of those on your pussy, well, I've no first hand experience, but I'm told it hurts like the nineth cicrcle of hell. So here's an idea: JUST DON'T DO IT

 

[Roger Ramjets]

LMAO. Dude... like... duude... *takes a long puff out of the joint*... DUUDE. Then you can't sell a car to a customer, because they might drive it straight into a wall. (It's happened.)...

I doubt that the restaurant shoved it between her legs. I mean, Í've shopped at McDonald, Burger King, and several Chinese / Italian / Dönner / whatever restaurants for decades, and I don't remember them serving ANYTHING directly to my crotch

The unnamed woman claimed the incident, which happened in February 2021 at an Atlanta-area location, occurred because the cup’s lid was not secured.

According to the woman’s attorney, the lid came off the cup after she was given the drink and the hot coffee spilled on her lap causing second- and third-degree burns to her thighs, groin and abdomen. She also required “extensive” skin grafts, a statement said. The injury resulted in her spending weeks at a burn unit in a Georgia hospital, costing her $200,000 in medical bills.

If a business sells a car to a customer, and the brakes are faulty causing them to crash straight into a brick wall, do you think that business might be liable?

You trivialize an incident which - if true - was caused by faulty product. A product which is inherently harmful if not properly contained. The lid was supposed to be secured in such a way that the hot liquid would not come out. It wasn't. The burning hot liquid did come out, causing well over $200,000 worth of damage. How you can minimize this so jovially is beyond me.

The business settled for $3 million. If they weren't at fault they could have defended themselves in court and won the case. But they didn't. This tells you something - they weren't so sure that they didn't bear some responsibility for it.

There is no doubt that the burns occurred, no doubt about the damage the product caused and the cost of repairing it. The only doubt was about who was liable. The CNN article says the lid came off the cup after the drink was handed to the woman. However other reports like this one from USA Today say the lid came off 'when', 'while', or 'as' the cup was handed to her. Here's the quote from USA Today:-

law firm Morgan & Morgan said in a press statement. The law firm said that the lid was allegedly not secured on the coffee cup, causing the spill...

As a Dunkin' employee handed the woman her the coffee, the lid came off of the cup spilling the coffee onto her lap and burning her skin. She suffered second and third-degree burns to her thighs, groin and abdomen and required extensive skin grafts...

“We hope this settlement sends a message to all restaurants and franchisees: this isn’t complicated; train your employees properly and prioritize customer safety," said Morgan & Morgan founder John Morgan, in a statement.

No, the restaurant didn't 'shove it between her legs' (which would be a crime even it didn't burn her), but they did ('allegedly') hand her a cup with unsecured lid. Burning hot liquid ('allegedly') spilled out onto her abdomen, crotch, and legs. If true then this suggests the cup was not 'between her legs' when it spilled out. The use of words like 'as' and 'while' suggest it occurred before she was able to put the cup down.

We can imagine what might have happened. As she was being handed the cup the lid came off and spilled hot coffee all over her lower body. If that was what happened would you change you mind about the validity of this lawsuit? Even if so it doesn't matter, because your dismissive misogynistic attitude is clear and you can't take it back now.

Like, literally, between someone having an accident with their new car on the first year, and someone scalding their crotch with coffee by trying to squeeze it between their thighs to fiddle with the lid...

if you spill any of those on your pussy... here's an idea: JUST DON'T DO IT

According to undisputed facts the victim did not 'squeeze it between their thighs to fiddle with the lid'. You just made that up. The CNN article was ambiguous, so as a skeptic you shouldn't have drawn any conclusions about the position of the cup when the lid came off. But instead you fantasized about it being 'shoved between her legs' close to her 'pussy'. That warrants a , not a .

 

[novaphile]

Here's another one, from the world of organisations doing coffee right...

I was flying from Adelaide to Melbourne, flight attendants were serving tea and coffee.
My seat was the aisle seat, and the guy by the window asked for tea.
The flight attendant leaned across two seats, to pour the tea, and while doing so accidentally poured hot black coffee from the pot onto my shoulder and sleeve.

The only casualties were a business shirt (which I replaced at Melbourne airport) and her embarrassment.

(I made a point of letting her know that it was OK and just an accident, but she was terribly upset about what had happened. I'm guessing that she was relatively new to the job and quite stressed about the error.)

Note that I didn't require skin grafts, or to have my arm replaced, because airlines serve coffee at a temperature that doesn't cause third degree (or any degree) burns.