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Will the Starliner ever enter service?

When will the Starliner succeed with crewed test? (multiple selections allowed)

  • Before SpaceX Starship enters regular non-crewed service

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • Sometime after SpaceX Spaceship enters regular uncrewed service

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • After Starship begins crewed operations

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • Soon, maybe in June or July of this year (2024)

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • Not until fall of 2024

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • Months and months away, maybe a year or more but they'll get there.

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • Never. Boeing and NASA cut losses and drop the effort

    Votes: 10 45.5%
  • Stick it inside a Starship and pretend that counts.

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • Option 7, but they revive the effort once Elon Musk's major mental malfunctions destroy SpaceX

    Votes: 5 22.7%

  • Total voters
    22

crescent

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Eight years behind schedule and counting.

The first crewed test flight was scheduled for May 6 (two weeks ago). That was delayed until May 17, then May 25. Now it is scrubbed indefinitely with NASA admitting that they don't currently have a clear path forward.

Boeing, NASA indefinitely delay crewed Starliner launch

There is still forward work in these areas, and the next possible launch opportunity is still being discussed. NASA will share more details once we have a clearer path forward.
 
It doesn't matter if a door falls off a space vessel in flight, does it?

C'mon. This is Boeing. Things fall off before it ever makes it to the pad:

https://x.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1521887273406640138
OFT-2: During the rollover to pad 41, as the Starliner neared the Vehicle Assembly Building, a protective window cover somehow fell off the capsule and tumbled to the road; after a brief stop to determine what had happened, the trip continued
 
Scheduled again for June 1.

Starship is also scheduled for that day. Starliner from Florida and Starship from Texas.
 
Question. Where in space would you never be affected by gravity? Technically, in space you are just in perpetual freefall?

Practically speaking?

It's true, if you are in orbit around anything, the earth, the sun, the barycenter of galaxy, etc. then you are affected by gravity. But you won't feel it if you are in space.
 
Practically speaking?

It's true, if you are in orbit around anything, the earth, the sun, the barycenter of galaxy, etc. then you are affected by gravity. But you won't feel it if you are in space.
The question was not of feeling but of falling.
If you are “feeling” weightlessness, it is because you are in freefall.
 
Made it to orbit. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Next big step is to dock with ISS. Eight days at ISS then come back down.

Presumably a whole bunch of tests and monitoring going on the whole time.

A key thing about Starliner is that it give the NASA/ESA and all of the other allied space agencies a second class of human-rated launch vehicle. Which means that if one (either Starliner or Crew Dragon) needs to be grounded for a time to deal with an issue, we still have access to the ISS - without relying upon Russia/Soyuz.

We can be in space to stay, and access ISS or any post-ISS things without needing to deal with Russia. And we can do that even if we have problems - nice to have backups/secondary systems. That'll be a win as far as I'm concerned.

Still gotta get through the rest of the test and get that crew down though. Fingers crossed.
 
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Does a crewed trip to the ISS count as Starliner entering service? Presumably the flight carried some kind of useful payload, and not just deadheading supercargo.

I mean, technically Apollo 11 was a test flight, but I'd count that mission as "entering service" according to the spirit and stated goals of the program.
 
Does a crewed trip to the ISS count as Starliner entering service? Presumably the flight carried some kind of useful payload, and not just deadheading supercargo.


Some replacement part for the urine/water recycling system that's urgently required, apparently.
 
From the Independent article: "Docking maneuvers with crew will pose another test for Starliner, followed roughly a week later by the test of returning to Earth."

I think they missed out a word - "safely" returning to the Earth is rather like the old adage of pilots, only takeoffs are optional, landings are mandatory.
 
From the Independent article: "Docking maneuvers with crew will pose another test for Starliner, followed roughly a week later by the test of returning to Earth."

I think they missed out a word - "safely" returning to the Earth is rather like the old adage of pilots, only takeoffs are optional, landings are mandatory.

Well technically if they successfully dock with ISS, they could return in a Soyuz. That's not the plan, but it could be a change of plans if it were to become necessary for some reason.
 
Well technically if they successfully dock with ISS, they could return in a Soyuz. That's not the plan, but it could be a change of plans if it were to become necessary for some reason.

That would leave them with the problem of what to do with the defunct Starliner using up a docking port on the ISS.

I guess they could just de-orbit it remotely?
 
That would leave them with the problem of what to do with the defunct Starliner using up a docking port on the ISS.

I guess they could just de-orbit it remotely?

Yeah, and I'm not even suggesting that this is likely at all. Just that it could be a backup option if for some reason it were necessary. Of course it all depends on successfully docking with ISS first. I don't know what could go wrong. Maybe if they discovered a fatal problem of some sort with the heat shielding or other mission-critical system.
 
Set to dock with ISS in about a half hour. Two reaction control thrusters are offline and they are trying to troubleshoot. But they have enough redundancy that the loss of two isn't mission critical, it will likely still be able to dock with two off line.
 
Starliner missed the time window for docking due to the thruster issue. It's holding position about a quarter kilometer from ISS and will try again in about an hour.
 
I'm not sure that's fair at all. Launch services for this mission was provided by ULA, which has a consistent track record of successful and on-time launches.

And is only half-Boeing! But at least one of the previous scrubs was caused by the rocket and not the spacecraft.

Getting pretty close to docking now.
 
And is only half-Boeing! But at least one of the previous scrubs was caused by the rocket and not the spacecraft.

Getting pretty close to docking now.

Scrubs do happen from time to time, sure. ULA's track record is still pretty good.

And it's Boeing Defense, Space & Security, not their commercial airliner division.
 

It seems that this flight won't count as "in service" regardless. Technically it won't enter service until after this flight, and then only if NASA thinks it's ready.

Personally, I count this as an in-service flight, since it aimed to deliver both crew and payload to the ISS. I would consider it in service for this reason, even if the flight ended in tragedy at launch. In-service flights are allowed to end in tragedy. What puts it in service, in my opinion, is doing a job other than testing the vehicle itself.

Apollo 7? Test flight. Apollo 11? In service.
 
Looks like the astronauts will be spending a bit longer on the ISS than originally planned.

Boeing’s Starliner capsule took astronauts to space — now it needs to bring them back

On Tuesday, NASA and Boeing officials confirmed that spaceflight veterans Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams will now return to Earth on June 26, instead of the originally planned date of June 14. In other words, they’ll be spending at least 20 days on board the International Space Station (ISS) instead of just eight.

The delay is to “give our team a little bit more time to look at the data, do some analyses and make sure we’re really ready to come home,” NASA official Steve Stich said during a news conference Tuesday.

I really think they are just being extra cautious here, which is a good idea. This is now the third model of spaceship currently capable of taking humans to the ISS and returning them. There's also the Soyuz and the Dragon 2 which has been operating since 2020. There are four active Crew Dragon capsules, one of which is currently docked at the ISS, and 3 Cargo Dragon capsules. So Starliner is playing catch-up here.
 
Return date pushed back again, to some unspecified date in July.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6pp29gdwe6o

Helium leak problems with the service module. Really minor leaks, no threat to reentry. But the service module will burn up during reentry, so the only chance to study the leaks in this specific service module is while the Starliner is still in orbit.

So they stay up a bit longer to get an understanding of the problem. Not perfect, but probably not enough to prevent certification if all else (including reentry) go well. Like I don't think that they will require a second crewed test flight.
 
Still no official word on when they will return. Problems with 5 of the thrusters may be a bigger issue than the helium leaks. Still, the word is that a minimum of 14 out of 28 thrusters are safe.

Sunita Williams, Safe On Space Station, To Address Earth On July 10

June 14th was the initially planned return date. This was pushed back to June 26th, and then until sometime in July. Here we are well into July but a concrete date for the return hasn't been announced yet.
 
Seems like my faith in Boeing Defense, Space & Security might be misplaced.

This delay means, what? Three more crew than anticipated. I wonder if this means the next supply run will need to happen sooner than originally planned.
 
From what I understand, the Atlas V is being retired and all remaining Vs are booked for things that are not Starliner. The plan is to use the Vulcan Centaur as the primary launch vehicle for Starliner.

The catch being that Vulcan Centaur has been only flown once so far and is not yet crew-rated.

Then again, one big improvement is that Starliner can be launched from any of a number of different rockets - Centaur, Falcon 9, or maybe even Ariane 6. I don't know if Crew Dragon can do that or not, or if Dreamchaser will be able to if the crew version is ever produced.

It's kinda nice to de-link the capsule from any specific launch vehicle. Adds flexibility and a sort of redundancy.
 
There was an failure of a Falcon 9 launch today. First stage performed as expected, but the second stage accumulated a bunch of ice so and the rocket failed to reignite as planned and apparently blew up instead.

It was a Starlink launch, the Starlinks were deployed but probably at too low of an orbit to be functional. They'll re-enter and burn up relatively quickly. The second stage was also apparently at a low orbit so it seems to me that it won't contribute much to orbital debris problems (but I'm just some rando on the internet can could totally be wrong on that).

https://x.com/BCCarCounters/status/1811769572552310799

The FAA is requiring an investigation and will ground the Falcon 9 for at least a little while (I have no idea how long).

Prior to this, the Falcon 9 had 344 successful flights in a row. The occasional grounding isn't uncommon in any frequently flown aircraft - Boeing 777 was grounded for a time with battery fire issues, Boeing 373 Max was very publicly grounded, I could probably look up others is I wasn't so lazy:rolleyes:.

But with aircraft, there are always other types of aircraft that can fill in for a while. Not so with spacecraft. This really highlights the need for ULA and Boeing to get the Centaur and Starliner working so there is a non-Russian alternative to Space X for crewed service to ISS and LEO. No matter how reliable Falcon 9 may be, it just isn't wise to rely exclusively on one type of craft for crewed launch.

ETA: Better source on the F9 failure:
https://techcrunch.com/2024/07/12/spacex-falcon-9-suffers-rare-failure-on-orbit-during-starlink-deployment/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAK8nDnu_wIVpvQCN3obtmzPRfOSmdejywLhr1YZpZSvMzVUTDNQNldH-RrtBOxnFUm9JAlnSqjexlihc097CCia21578BEwhs9exjMGEp8YMkTJQZiYHbVnuxv2DJUMjm-lDc96qy9X27sK5aUNOboszsxbJGnmsiFWnfh5jlUfo
 
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