Will tariffs make America great?

And because the machines are in China, the infrastructure to build and maintain them is, too.
Until the US builds up an army of mechanics, many industries cannot come back.
 
it's likely both. in the industries the us is competitive in, it's because of automation. in china, it's because the labor is cheaper, the regulations are eased, all as they've begun to automate. either way, you'll have to either develop more efficient processes and equipment on products you're unfamiliar with, or cut costs elsewhere (labor), in order to compete. or hope the tariffs are high enough that the consumer will pick up the difference.

i've worked in automated manufacturing for a long time. you don't just buy the equipment, put it down, and make product. it's much more difficult and complex than that, particularly if you're integrating into a line of other equipment which is often the case, and requires a lot of pretty technical ongoing support. we've bought foreign equipment before, the programs aren't in english. the hmi screens aren't in english. the software isn't american, the parts aren't american.

and then if you want to get into raw materials and supply chains.

i just don't know who thinks they want to work in an industry that you're trying to steal from the chinese as a production worker. what kind of margins do you think they have? good production work today, in the upper end industries, is starting at like $22 an hour. that's in a profitable, american company today. it's a little better than retail work, longer hours in worse conditions for slightly better pay.

it just doesn't add up
 
Just wondering...isn't America's so-called "unfair trade relations" basically authored by capitalist ideals that prioritized profits and stock market performance encouraging companies to set up their production abroad primarily promoted by Republican governments?
 
The Don said:
It may be both, but either way the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back to the US. If more manufacturing is done in the US it's because it requires little or no labour. The days of thousands of people working in a plant in developed economies making widgets are long gone.
Click to expand...
If the USA is going to have the most bestest modernest factories, the millions of screws in the iPhones will be put in by robots. There will be zero workers on that production line.

Also, Lutnick is a complete ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ moron. Just putting that out there.
 
i’d wait this out a bit anyway. the market is celebrating like it’s over but gdp still contracted 2%, they’re about to borrow $4t and drive up yields, and the tariff pause still has a 30% rate on china and 10% reciprocal which is still a large tariff
 
Hopefully the court will finish naming me executor of my parents' estate soon and I can unload their stock before Trump firebombs the market again.
 
Norman Alexander said:
And China will sell the USA their best, most modern machines? Thereby undercutting their own industries?
Click to expand...
The best, most modern machines come from Netherlands. China currently has nothing that can even remotely compare.

Also, you'd think that imposing a high tariff on the exploitation of cheap labor would be an incredibly welcome progressive and prosocial policy, at least in the West.
 
theprestige said:
That generational wealth grindset.
Click to expand...

My mother inherited the stock from her aunt, and since the company dramatically cut their dividend payments a number of years ago (GE), I'm pretty sure she didn't realize what it was worth. When my father was in hospice and later when she was in the hospital, she kept worrying about paying things like his funeral expenses (which were covered by his life insurance anyway) when the stock would have covered all her expenses easily.
 
Armitage72 said:
My mother inherited the stock from her aunt, and since the company dramatically cut their dividend payments a number of years ago (GE), I'm pretty sure she didn't realize what it was worth. When my father was in hospice and later when she was in the hospital, she kept worrying about paying things like his funeral expenses (which were covered by his life insurance anyway) when the stock would have covered all her expenses easily.
Click to expand...
Mismanagement of generational wealth is practically a Jane Austen novel. I hope you get a chance to make the most of what's left of your inheritance.
 
steenkh said:
So the U.S. manufacturers will have to pay tariffs to get them?

Sorry, I forgot: the Netherlands will have to pay the tariffs! :)
Click to expand...
Especially since we're an evil EU/DEI/communist country that isn't bowing enough. Oh well, maybe China wants the machines.
 
theprestige said:
Do you have in mind some industry where the best, most modern machines are of Chinese origin?
Click to expand...
I would not say they quite dominate in any category just yet, but China has highly cost-competitive offerings in sintering ovens, 3D printers and ancillary tools in additive manufacturing. It is also a leading manufacturer of the powders themselves. Thanks to its Ti deposits, Australia leads in cold spray, especially high pressure models, but medium pressure units out of China are now penetrating the pipeline repair market (crack repair with no downtime, due to the "cold" spray (<300ºC)).

The importance of 3D laser printing lies in its so-far unique capability to produce hitherto unobtainable alloys (paywall, sorry, but abstract is legible) via rapid heating and cooling using metals that otherwise would separate out into intermetallics during the long cooling process in a traditional vat, with gravity also playing a role. Cold spray is rumored to allow that as well, with one research group claiming to have successfully created a high entropy alloy (most likely mostly an intermetallic, peppered with "true" HEA molecules, which is still pretty good).

Additive manufacturing is expensive, mostly due to the high cost of the powders themselves, but also the high initial capital costs and, in the case of 3d printing, low scalability. Its investment boom is well over, but the industry is now in the "solid proposition" phase following the early hype. Sintering, in particular, has really taken off, though, mostly in the automotive industry, as in the case of my neighbor down the highway, AMES Sintering. The CEO of that company is such a cool dude (answers company inquiries himself, and gives helpful hints to boot). Billion dollar company now.
 
Last edited:
theprestige said:
Sorry. I was fixated on photolithography.

But I wouldn't be surprised it's similar in every industry that depends on high tech machinery.

Why do you ask? Do you have in mind some industry where the best, most modern machines are of Chinese origin?
Click to expand...
No, I was just fascinated by the (apparent) blanket claim that the Netherlands is responsible for all the best, most modern machines. That would be quite the feather in the cap of any country.

You "wouldn't be surprised" if the Netherlands was actually responsible for the best, most modern machines in every (undefined) high tech industry? I find that fascinating too.

For industries requiring mass production, such as Trump and his sycophants naively claim to want to "bring back" to the USA, the best, most modern machines are not always the best choice. Reliable, rugged equipment that can be obtained and maintained economically for the long term is often a better choice.

Regardless of the source and technology the USA is going to be paying vast sums to other countries, plus the cost of their own tariffs, to obtain the equipment and training required to kickstart their new industries.
 
ok so here’s another interesting thing about manufacturing. when you have a large market capture, companies stop making machines for that particular product since they don’t have any customers. for example, the company i work for has an 80% United States market capture of a particular product, so many of the companies that make equipment to produce that particular product are all out of business long ago, because we are basically their only customer and we’re not interested in buying. in fact we go out of our way to make sure competitors can’t get a hold of any process or tech we use.

so in essence, this creates an environment where we hire engineers and process groups to upgrade and develop our own equipment since nobody else is doing it.

so if you think about what the chinese lead the global market in, it’s likely those industries where they have the edge in producing the best equipment. that’s not to say they’re necessarily the best at it, maybe the dutch or italians or whatever are capable of making high tech equipment for these industries, but there’s no demand for it. in any case, finding engineering groups to develop equipment and processes that we don’t have any experience in is a major hurdle for american companies attempting to break into new industries. the chinese may not want to sell any of it
 
Last edited:
The grift with tanking the markets intentionally and buying on the low, then renouncing your catastrophic policies continues.
And will continue until the markets stop reacting
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The grift with tanking the markets intentionally and buying on the low, then renouncing your catastrophic policies continues.
And will continue until the markets stop reacting
Click to expand...
"The grift" as in Pam Bondi dumping over $1 million in Trump Media stock on "Liberation Day", which was followed by a 10 percent drop in the stock price? (IMHO, the Attorney General owning millions of dollars in stock in a company in which the POTUS is the majority owner is a scandal all by itself.)
 
Last edited:
Andy_Ross said:
Trump already tried this on "liberation day" and it was such a disaster that he walked it back in short order
Click to expand...
The billionaire overlords wish to purchase on another big drop and thus it is being arranged for them. Be ready with your pennies as well, we peasants mayhap make a pittance on it as well. (Which we can then donate to the overlords by purchasing a Rump watch or the king's family's imaginary digital money.)
 
Norman Alexander said:
And the countries getting these letters will say "Aaah, no, thanks. We're good with other more sane, more reliable trading partners. Best of luck on your own!"
Click to expand...
Wasn't it Mark Twain who said something about a cat that's been burned by a stove will not only avoid the stove, but the entire room from then on?
 
Norman Alexander said:
And the countries getting these letters will say "Aaah, no, thanks. We're good with other more sane, more reliable trading partners. Best of luck on your own!"
Click to expand...

Donald could just let Elon handle it. He would absolutely love to have 150 world leaders come for a sleepover in the WH. There would be ice cream and everything!
 
dirtywick said:
www.cnbc.com

Trump tells Walmart to 'eat the tariffs' after retailer warned it will raise prices

Trump blasted Walmart after the retailer warned it would raise prices due to tariffs.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

trump tells walmart to eat the tariff cost, indirectly acknowledging that tariffs are paid here and not at the export side
Click to expand...
People have said that Pres. Trump doesn't know how tariffs work. I have maintained that he really does, but he hopes that you don't know how they work. He wants to maintain that he's a shrewd businessman who knows The One Weird Trick that makes all the other countries pay the United States so that the U.S. doesn't have to tax its own population. He needs importers and retailers to eat the tariff in order to maintain that illusion. If the conversation goes per form, we'll see something like.

Trump: No, the other country pays the tariff.
Reporter: But hasn't Walmart has acknowledged importers have to pay the tariff and want to raise prices to do so?
Trump: Who do you work for?
Reporter XYZ News.
Trump: That was a very bad question. You shouldn't be asking that question. That's why your organization is failing.

Trump can't decide whether we're going to be stuck in an austerity economy or a command economy. But on the other hand, Democrats have been saying for quite some time now that corporate profiteering is what's driving inflation and high prices, and have argued for a higher tax rate on corporations to bring some of that profit back into the public sector. It seems Pres. Trump agrees.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom