• Due to ongoing issues caused by Search, it has been temporarily disabled
  • Please excuse the mess, we're moving the furniture and restructuring the forum categories

Will JREF Go On Without Randi?

six7s said:
So what? You don't control the purse strings
Click to expand...

That also goes to my point. If the MDC will not go on, what else won't go on?

The MDC was a signature tool of Randi's.

Before it was the million dollar challenge, it was the ten thousand dollar challenge. I recall a show with Penn and Teller and Randi which I think was a one hundred thousand dollar challenge.

So that statement that "ten years is enough" is not entirely factual. The Challenge has been around much longer than that. I remember talking to Randi about it in 1996.
 
The foundation will maybe have to come up with a new schtick to get people to focus on who's telling stories and who ain't.
 
If I could show that membership on paranormal forums was growing faster than this one, would that be of any significance as to JREF's success?
 
Luke T. said:
That also goes to my point. If the MDC will not go on, what else won't go on?
Click to expand...
Ah, I see your lack of logic here. So it a slippery slope fallacy.
The MDC was a signature tool of Randi's.

Before it was the million dollar challenge, it was the ten thousand dollar challenge. I recall a show with Penn and Teller and Randi which I think was a one hundred thousand dollar challenge.

So that statement that "ten years is enough" is not entirely factual. The Challenge has been around much longer than that. I remember talking to Randi about it in 1996.
Click to expand...
So?
 
This forum is puny compared to some paranormal forums out there. And the TAMs are puny compared to the turnouts at their gatherings.
 
Luke T. said:
If I could show that membership on paranormal forums was growing faster than this one, would that be of any significance as to JREF's success?
Click to expand...

No. Many skeptics also join other forums ... just as various believers join this one.

I'm not sure why the fact that Randi passed significant responsibility to Phil, and has clearly indicated there are plans to keep the JREF going with or without him isn't enough of an answer.
 
Magnifico2.0 said:
The foundation will maybe have to come up with a new schtick to get people to focus on who's telling stories and who ain't.
Click to expand...

It's all about teaching critical thinking. For instance, if YouTube were to suddenly pull JREF's videos off the internet, it would not be critical thinking to leap to the conclusion that creationists were behind it with absolutely no input data.
 
chillzero said:
No. Many skeptics also join other forums ... just as various believers join this one.

I'm not sure why the fact that Randi passed significant responsibility to Phil, and has clearly indicated there are plans to keep the JREF going with or without him isn't enough of an answer.
Click to expand...

"Indicated there are plans."

Secret plans, I guess.
 
Luke T. said:
You know, a leading member of JREF once said that 97 percent of the topics on this forum were valueless to the cause of skepticism and the foundation.
Click to expand...

There is a point to this, although of course I'm going to ignore the 97 percent value. ;)

I think in all honesty members of JREF should concern themselves with providing accurate information on contemporary skeptical issues with articles that are easily accessible and readable by the general public. For example, in the Science subforum, I am of the opinion there should be a main "sticky" on points and counterpoints to the Intelligent Design & Evolution arguments. In Religion, current United States Supreme Court decisions and precedents, along with past overturned decisions - with clarification on cases such as Roe v. Wade, various school prayer rulings, etc.

I'd be happy to write a United States Supreme Court decisions summary if you guys think it would be a good idea.
 
Luke T. said:
It's all about teaching critical thinking. For instance, if YouTube were to suddenly pull JREF's videos off the internet, it would not be critical thinking to leap to the conclusion that creationists were behind it with absolutely no input data.
Click to expand...
You mean Creationist prior behavior of doing exactly that should not be taken into account when determining cause? Interesting definition of "critical thinking".
 
paximperium said:
You mean Creationist prior behavior of doing exactly that should not be taken into account when determining cause? Interesting definition of "critical thinking".
Click to expand...

No, it should not. If I flipped a coin and got tails six times in a row, would that affect the outcome of my next toss?
 
Luke T. said:
"Indicated there are plans."

Secret plans, I guess.
Click to expand...
He assigned someone else to run the JREF. That would indicate very clearly that it's business as usual. As I said - not sure why you think there wouldn't be JREF in years to come.
 
Luke T. said:
No, it should not. If I flipped a coin and got tails six times in a row, should that be a determining factor in guessing my next toss?
Click to expand...
Yes. The chance of that happening is low. You have to consider the possibility that the coin is weighted or bias or you are flipping it wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Luke T. said:
Randi's base of operations is in the U.S.

Are you suggesting JREF has had a measurable global impact in the last few years?
Click to expand...
He must have missed the European TAM and the popularity of skepticism in Australia. Sorry for the ignorant US-centric American.
 
Harpyja said:
There is a point to this, although of course I'm going to ignore the 97 percent value. ;)

I think in all honesty members of JREF should concern themselves with providing accurate information on contemporary skeptical issues with articles that are easily accessible and readable by the general public. For example, in the Science subforum, I am of the opinion there should be a main "sticky" on points and counterpoints to the Intelligent Design & Evolution arguments. In Religion, current United States Supreme Court decisions and precedents, along with past overturned decisions - with clarification on cases such as Roe v. Wade, various school prayer rulings, etc.

I'd be happy to write a United States Supreme Court decisions summary if you guys think it would be a good idea.
Click to expand...

Hey, go to the Forum Spotlight and open up the oldest original topics that were placed there. Look at the italicized introductions in the opening posts and see who wrote them. ;)
 
Last edited:
Luke T. said:
So what will happend to JREF when Randi crosses over, you think? Will it go on? Will this forum survive or be unplugged?
Click to expand...

Yes and it will survive.

It seems obvious to me that the forum and the foundation will both vanish from the face of the Earth. I realize that a terrific guy has been given the titular reins, but there doesn't seem to be anything forthcoming. If you live outside the JREF bubble, there is dead silence out in the real world.
Click to expand...

The "JREF bubble"? Seems to me that, more now than ever, the JREF is getting more and more involved with the "real world", as you put it.

Is the man in the street even aware of the JREF's existence any more?
Click to expand...

I would say that more people are aware of JREF or, at least by extension, the skeptical movement.

It just feels like the whole thing is winding down.
What say you?
Click to expand...

Funny, I had exactly the opposite impression.
 
paximperium said:
Yes. The chance of that happening is low. You have to consider the possibility that the coin is weighted or bias or you are flipping it wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

Actually, I do. People came to conclusions with no evidence.

I guess it is a good enough criteria to start a war over, though, huh? The "wouldn't put it past 'em" school of skepticism.
 
paximperium said:
No. Why should it?
Click to expand...

Simple. If the rate of growth of this forum is below the rate of growth of the opposition's forums, then the effectiveness of the foundation is below that of the competition's and is therefore failing.

It wasn't me who made the growth of this forum a measure of the foundation's success. But you can't measure it in a self-referential bubble.
 
I am very disappointed that not a single 'Look at me I am getting 17.3 million in bonuses'-CEO has stepped up and donated 1 million in the past years to the JREF just for the MDC. Surely there must be a few generous freethinkers among the captains of industry????
 
Luke T. said:
Actually, I do. People came to conclusions with no evidence.
Click to expand...
Good for you. Great response when your false analogy has been dismantled.
I guess it is a good enough criteria to start a war over, though, huh? The "wouldn't put it past 'em" school of skepticism.
Click to expand...
No it is the "The vast majority of all prior DMCA take down notices against Skepticism and Atheism videos are attributed to Creationists." therefore we need to look into this.
 
Luke T. said:
Simple. If the rate of growth of this forum is below the rate of growth of the opposition's forums, then the effectiveness of the foundation is below that of the competition's and is therefore failing.

It wasn't me who made the growth of this forum a measure of the foundation's success. But you can't measure it in a self-referential bubble.
Click to expand...
No. The original point is that Forum is growing and hence a marker that the JREF will not suddenly vanish like you've been claiming similar to the growth of TAM. It is not a marker for how successful the JREF is overall.

Glad I could correct your "error". Glad to see you've abandoned your "JREF will die without Randi" to "JREF is an epic failure" smear.
 
six7s said:
Wouldn't a more reliable data set be a national poll on UFOs, ghosts, psychics, and such?
Click to expand...
Why suggest such a geographically limited sample size?
Click to expand...

Luke T. said:
Randi's base of operations is in the U.S.

Are you suggesting JREF has had a measurable global impact in the last few years?
Click to expand...
No... I wasn't - simply because, rather than making a jump to the left and speculate on what is likely to be unquantifiable, I was trying to follow your 'idea' that a poll on UFOs, ghosts, psychics, and such might be useful

Sorry I can't keep up
 
[quote="paximperium]No. The original point is that Forum is growing and hence a marker that the JREF will not suddenly vanish like you've been claiming similar to the growth of TAM. It is not a marker for how successful the JREF is overall.

Glad I could correct your "error". Glad to see you've abandoned your "JREF will die without Randi" to "JREF is an epic failure" smear.[/quote]

Would you be kind enough to quote my posts where I said JREF will die without Randi, please?

Also, my JREF is an epic failure posts.

Thanks.
 
paximperium said:
No. The original point is that Forum is growing and hence a marker that the JREF will not suddenly vanish like you've been claiming similar to the growth of TAM. It is not a marker for how successful the JREF is overall.
Click to expand...

I think if something is being outpaced by its competition, it does not bode well for its future. That's usually how it ends up working out.


TICKETS NOW ON SALE FOR 2009

Thank you to everyone that attended.

Attendance for 2008 almost 5,000 fans

Stay tuned for major announcements soon about the 2009 event.
Click to expand...

The Largest Horror and Paranormal Convention In The Southeast
 
Luke T. said:
Would you be kind enough to quote my posts where I said JREF will die without Randi, please?
Click to expand...

Uh, from the OP:

Luke T. said:
So what will happend to JREF when Randi crosses over, you think? Will it go on? Will this forum survive or be unplugged?

It seems obvious to me that the forum and the foundation will both vanish from the face of the Earth.
Click to expand...
 
paximperium said:
Good for you. Great response when your false analogy has been dismantled.

No it is the "The vast majority of all prior DMCA take down notices against Skepticism and Atheism videos are attributed to Creationists." therefore we need to look into this.
Click to expand...

Actually, it is, "We have absolutely no input from the JREF staff as to why YouTube took the videos down. Therefore, we need to wait until we hear from them as to what happened before we go off half-cocked."

A couple people got it right.
 
Luke T. said:
Would you be kind enough to quote my posts where I said JREF will die without Randi, please?
Click to expand...
Luke T. said:
It seems obvious to me that the forum and the foundation will both vanish from the face of the Earth. I realize that a terrific guy has been given the titular reins, but there doesn't seem to be anything forthcoming. If you live outside the JREF bubble, there is dead silence out in the real world.
Click to expand...
/
Also, my JREF is an epic failure posts.
Click to expand...
Luke T. said:
This forum is puny compared to some paranormal forums out there. And the TAMs are puny compared to the turnouts at their gatherings.
Click to expand...
Luke T. said:
Randi's base of operations is in the U.S.

Are you suggesting JREF has had a measurable global impact in the last few years?
Click to expand...
Luke T. said:
Simple. If the rate of growth of this forum is below the rate of growth of the opposition's forums, then the effectiveness of the foundation is below that of the competition's and is therefore failing.

It wasn't me who made the growth of this forum a measure of the foundation's success. But you can't measure it in a self-referential bubble.
Click to expand...
Thanks.
Click to expand...
You're welcome

Oh yeah and after you posted all of the above, one more:
Luke T. said:
I think if something is being outpaced by its competition, it does not bode well for its future. That's usually how it ends up working out.
Click to expand...
 
Luke T. said:
Ah. Very good.

Too bad for paximperium I have not abandoned my opinion that JREF won't long survive after Randi.

Time will tell.
Click to expand...
So that justifies your lie about not making this claim?

or how you abandoned it once you realized you didn't have anything relevant to advance your nonsense? Well, we can see the credibility of your "opinion" here.
 
The Penn State Paranormal Research Society (PRS) has come along way since organizing in 2001. And so has UNIV-CON, a nationally renowned paranormal conference that, in 2007, saw attendance reach well over 1,200 people.

What started out as a small college program has evolved in to a grand scale event, dubbed by many in the paranormal community as one of the largest paranormal conferences of its kind.
Click to expand...

UNIV-CON 2008
 
paximperium said:
So that justifies your lie about not making this claim?

or how you abandoned it once you realized you didn't have anything relevant to advance your nonsense? Well, we can see the credibility of your "opinion" here.
Click to expand...

I have not abandoned my opinion. That's unskeptical wishful thinking on your part.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom