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Wifi repeater/extender questions

8enotto

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Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
3,883
Location
Mexico
To try to cure a problem of poor signal at the other side of the house we installed one.
I am digitally torpe so my son downloaded an app and set it up.

It's a TP-Link AC750 dual band wall wart thing.

Of three devices only one displays a boost in signal strength. All seem to work better for not dropping signal once, which would be normal any given weekend before.

Should we be seeing higher signal on all devices?
Do the access controls on this device replace or augment the access controls of the modem itself? My wife blocks out unwanted "guests" using our WiFi when the palapa is rented out.
 
I don't know if this applies to your WiFi router, but I find that 5g connections only work when the device isn't too far from the router. Dropping the connection down to 2.4g massively extends the range and particularly around walls or through ceilings.
 
5GHz (which is different than cell phone 5G, by the way) does have less range, but tends to be much less crowded. We have a dual band router, the 2.4GHz band is very crowded and tends to perform poorly, whereas the 5Ghz has no issues.

We tried a repeater at one point, but it didn't improve anything for us. I think repeaters are very hit-and-miss.

Note that if your device has an Ethernet port there is an alternative, Ethernet over Powerline. That is also hit-and-miss, but it works for us.
 
I looked at the manual and I see it's intended to be a relay point, which you place about halfway between your router and the area with bad wifi. The device has LEDs for the two wifi bands (2.4GHz and 5GHz) which turn green if it has a good radio link to your router. ( I guess that's all okay?)

When setting up, the extender needs to be connected to your existing 2.4Ghz wifi and 5GHz wifi. I guess it's possible only one of those got set up which might result in some devices using the extender and others not using it (since some only use one band and others use either). The LED colours will probably tell you - if one is red or off then something's not right.

As it's possible for the extender's two wifi frequencies to be set up with different names, or with different passwords, it would be worth checking that in case some devices are set up on one but not the other.
 
It shows both bands active, it was set up right next to the modem.
Near everything we have is at least five years old and my TV goes offline when the service drop 3G service at the tower. Three of our phones are 4.5G, whatever that is, but those are on carrier service as well as the Telmex WiFi.

It was set up at a strong WiFi point in the upstairs hallway, the módem is two walls and a cement with white tiles floor away below in the living room.
The target devices are six yards more distant through another cement wall. Can't be putting the upstairs bathroom in line as the white tile walls (colored with titanium oxide) block every signal we use.
 
The thing I don't like about extenders is they very rarely are used for the problem they can actually solve. If you're seeing issues with WiFi signal strength indoors, it's not likely because of range, but because of intervening walls or floors. The dilemma then becomes, do you put the extender where the signal is strong, so that the repeated signal is what's attenuated, or do you put it where you need the signal but then the extender can't get a good signal from the router? They do fine if you're extending a signal over open space but that's almost never the case in a residential home.

They also cause problems if you're in an area with a lot of surrounding WiFi networks, since they use an additional set of channels for the backhaul and the repeated broadcast. When there might be channel saturation from surrounding networks, they don't have much to work with and can make the problems worse.

A far, far better option (where possible) is to put in one or more Ethernet runs from the current location of the wireless router to where you're having problems with reception and put in a second hardwired access point at that location. No issues with attenuation between the router and the extender, no additional channel overhead, no ping delays due to half-duplex signaling on the backhaul, it's just an overall better solution than an extender.

I've been installing wifi and networking now for about 18 years, and I can't once think of a circumstance where I would rather have an extender than a hardwired access point. If you can run wiring, you'll be happier.
 
It's a cement block and cast post construction house. Putting wires inside walls has to be done at the building stage of the construction. I can't rebuild the walls to smooth again, so no way I go cutting through the surfaces. My wife doesn't want exposed wires anywhere, nor do I.

This limits any options and the need is my son to play war thunder, myself to watch yt vids instead of network TV. Not exactly important goals.

There are five WiFi signal detected from our home, one is our own. Two are neighbors at least 300' distant from our yard. The rest I can't guess. The four others are too weak to connect at all.

The problem we won't fix at all is white paint and floor tiles use titanium oxide for color and this stuff messes with radio signals. We have copius amounts of this stuff in our decor and didn't plan for the side effect. We didn't know. I read labels and did research later to solve why.

One night in on a typical spotty service weekend night wasn't spotty at all. Maybe it's working for us?

I researched a bit, my wife actually suggested we just use the crapshoot method of seeing what might work. And she works computer stuff all week at her job. I can't afford that method.
 
We've had some success in the past with powerline connections, but I woldn't claim to know how reliable they are.
 
With respect to Yalius's suggestion, as Worm says you could use Ethernet over powerline to get the network to other spots in the house - and, given that you don't have an issue with the frequency being crowded, you could install WiFi access point at the other end of the Ethernet over powerline. Doesn't require any cable installation, but does depend on your house electrical wiring; how old is the wiring?

We ourselves use older Netgear devices, current ones are at https://www.netgear.com/ca-en/home/wired/powerline/. There are many other brands, of course; look up reviews. I think there are some that are specifically both a powerline connector and an access point, although Netgear doesn't show any at the link.
 
The house wiring is maybe 14 years after install. I put it all in myself so I know pretty much anything about it. It's all in plastic tubes running through cast cement. Most of the lighting is LED through the house. That should mean minimal interference there.

We will give this extender a shot for a while, it's already paid for. But in the future if it doesn't play well we can try the power line option. This TP-Link device was on clearance at HD for 450 pesos. I trust the name enough we tried it.
 
I expect you've considered other power outlets you could experimentally plug the extender into, like another downstairs location to transmit up to the rooms with weak reception without going through so many solid walls. Or in any loft space, to pass over the top of the walls if the construction permits.

I guess this is one upside of having a house with just wood and plasterboard/drywall interior walls, floors and ceilings: one wifi router floods our whole house. I still ran several wired extensions though, before every connected device got wifi as standard. And even with such a lightly built house it was less heartache to go out, around and back in with exterior grade Cat 5 cable rather than create a concealed route indoors.
 
Typical of Mexico our home has no third ground wire in the wiring. Just the two wire basics like a DC system. But it is 120 ac service.
Would that make a powerline extender not work here?

No attic space, just a flat cement roof. The design of the house is unusual as some rooms have five to six walls, they are built on angles to the main body of the back of the structure.
It's hard to describe but it looks great from a street view.
That puts a lot of walls/floors between anything and the modem.
 
Thanks all. I now feel I have enough information to go ahead with maybe upgrading to powerline. I could put the resending unit in the room with the devices.

The big test comes on xmas vacation coming up. During peak tiktok and fartbuk hours we can lose all signal until the traffic decreases.
 
Good luck. It's worked well for us, but I understand it can vary depending on the wiring.
 
Thinking as the usual sort of cheapskate here, might one other possibility be to move the router? I don't know what your source of internet to the router is, but if the signal is strong at one end of the house and weak at the other, it seems as if you might get away with moving the router to a more central location, either extending the cable/DSL input, or if your router is separate from your modem, using a longer ethernet cable between the two.
 
My son rushed through setup on the repeater. Missed a detail but he fixed it.

Now the repeater doubles the signal strength on the second floor. I am not sure the error.
But, he fixed it.

The fiber optic cable heads into a pre-existing hole the wire telephone once used. That's in the corner of the living room. We don't want any more holes in the house.
Moving the router would put it in a narrowish central hallway. The cement staircase in the center of the house would block out signal in other parts. There is a heap of material in that structure. It would also run fiber optic cable across a room or the front porch.
 
8enotto said:
My son rushed through setup on the repeater. Missed a detail but he fixed it.

Now the repeater doubles the signal strength on the second floor. I am not sure the error.
But, he fixed it.

The fiber optic cable heads into a pre-existing hole the wire telephone once used. That's in the corner of the living room. We don't want any more holes in the house.
Moving the router would put it in a narrowish central hallway. The cement staircase in the center of the house would block out signal in other parts. There is a heap of material in that structure. It would also run fiber optic cable across a room or the front porch.
Click to expand...
Yes, definitely a different sort of place. I can get anywhere with a drill! Good you got the repeater properly repeating.
 
Getting wi-fi working in a difficult house has been one of my ongoing technical nightmares. The technology is much better these days. At least it can be made to work.

I was talking to a guy who used to do custom, professional wifi installs for those who could afford it. He made good money. He used expensive, professional level equipment and wired in the best locations for the router with network cable. He use the junk the rest of have to make do with from the retail appliance shop.

I remember when I bought a Linksys wifi router. I thought it would be good because the brand was owned by Cisco. It was no better than the rest of them. Hopes dashed.
 
Then there is also the wifi aerial scam. I saw a lot of devices with aerials that were twice the length of others. With aerials, rule of thumb is bigger is better, add long as they are a proper multiple of the signal frequency. So I didn't buy the device with the half as long aerials.

I accidentally broke one of the long aerials and saw what was inside. That's right, a half length aerial with the top half just useless plastic that gets in the way.
 
8enotto said:
My son rushed through setup on the repeater. Missed a detail but he fixed it.

Now the repeater doubles the signal strength on the second floor. I am not sure the error.
But, he fixed it.
Click to expand...
Nice. That probably solves your problem. Fingers crossed.
 
a_unique_person said:
Then there is also the wifi aerial scam. I saw a lot of devices with aerials that were twice the length of others. With aerials, rule of thumb is bigger is better, add long as they are a proper multiple of the signal frequency. So I didn't buy the device with the half as long aerials.

I accidentally broke one of the long aerials and saw what was inside. That's right, a half length aerial with the top half just useless plastic that gets in the way.
Click to expand...
My experience with this stuff is obsolete and steam powered, but as I seem to recall, the higher the frequency (and wifi signals are pretty high) the less important aerial length is compared to matching wavelength. I don't even know what's inside that little blob on the roof of my car that drags in FM from way far away, but back in the day, when car antennas were straight pieces of metal, there was a reason they were supposed to be 30 inches long.
 
bruto said:
My experience with this stuff is obsolete and steam powered, but as I seem to recall, the higher the frequency (and wifi signals are pretty high) the less important aerial length is compared to matching wavelength. I don't even know what's inside that little blob on the roof of my car that drags in FM from way far away, but back in the day, when car antennas were straight pieces of metal, there was a reason they were supposed to be 30 inches long.
Click to expand...
Whip aerials usually aim to be a quarter of the wavelength they're meant to receive. They selectively absorb the intended radio frequency most efficiently. If that's inconveniently long, you can use a shorter whip with a small inductive coil added in to correct the mis-match, or make the whole antenna a short helix ("rubber duck" aerials are this type) at the cost of a bit less gain (doesn't receive quite so much signal).

Beyond that it's all magic and far surpasses me.
 
I like the small, barely notable stuff to cut back on visual clutter. A wall wart repeater seems to be doing quite well, the router is on a table lower floor about a yard from outlets. It keeps that unclurttered look without wires or huge devices being really prominent. It's a pseudo colonial style house with vintage and handmade light fixtures in place and the modern stuff kept discrete or downplayed.

She even insisted on woodgrain on the alu frames of the windows/sliding doors. Low maintaince and it looks good.
The few iron framed windows require paint.
 
bruto said:
My experience with this stuff is obsolete and steam powered, but as I seem to recall, the higher the frequency (and wifi signals are pretty high) the less important aerial length is compared to matching wavelength. I don't even know what's inside that little blob on the roof of my car that drags in FM from way far away, but back in the day, when car antennas were straight pieces of metal, there was a reason they were supposed to be 30 inches long.
Click to expand...
The little blob on the roof, is most likely a phased array, basically just a fancy, fractal, pattern etched in copper.

Loads of tiny little aerials all gathering a part of the signal.

The fractal arrays in modern mobile phones are a joy to behold.

en.wikipedia.org

Fractal antenna - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
This thing is deceptive. I knew the modem was off but my TV was pulling a strong signal from the repeater. Sadly it was a null signal as there was nothing to repeat.
But it looked good on screen.

It uses the same name as the modem plus an EXT suffix. Same password too. Practically sets all that itself.
Darn thing is pretty slick now it's dialed in.


Success, the TP link thing is good.
 
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