Part of the problem is that in 'natural' settings, where people are looking for sources of water, if you dig down far enough, you're pretty much guaranteed to find water eventually, at least in countries like the UK.
You’d need to demonstrate that the subconscious works in such a way before you start to use it as an explanation for anything. That aside, the JREF challenge was always careful to only test the claim the dowsers made, if the dowsers themselves believe they can do X then testing for X is done. And the actual test was mutually agreed prior to the testing, if both sides couldn’t agree then no test went ahead. None of the dowsers who wanted to be tested could do what they claimed they could when doing a test they had agreed to.
That is why Randi always gave the dossiers a “dry” run where they could prove to themselves that they were in surroundings where their dowsing still worked, despite the unnatural surroundings (and negative vibes from the skeptics).
No the poring comes after you've located the water source.
"poring"No the poring comes after you've located the water source.
true!
A “hot” dowsing could explain it, but locating records for an area before the dowsing, seems to be an awful lot of work for 25$.
"See Civil Engineers."
We are not boring, we are exciting and fascinating people.
This. The myths were 'write-ins' that the Mythbusters team had to test by trying it themselves with their own equipment, not by the person making the claim. And the 'myths' always involved some effect that was scientifically 'plausible', at least on the surface. I don't remember them testing any 'myth' that involved psychic powers or nonscientific principles - which makes sense because to make the show interesting they wanted things that had a non-zero chance of being confirmed.
That isn't the only explanation that has been suggested this time, and I very much doubt it was the only one offered the last time you posted it either. I'd also be surprised if the ideomotor effect, and how it can be influenced by the fact that the subconscious mind picks up and processes much more information than is ever brought to the attention of the conscious mind, wasn't mentioned.
There's no need for new alternatives when the old ones are perfectly adequate. The only thing that would make your anecdote interesting would be if the dowser in question had at any time taken and passed a blind test.
They once tested if plants would grow better if you loved them or hated them, but gave them the exact same treatment. The plants didn’t care.
Well I have to disagree that the old ones (you didn't say which) are adequate, when they are not, as they can always have caveats attached to them, like the one I suggested for pre-knowledge. The right answer is there, it's just that it is elusive, and so, as I indicated we have to leave it there. My own view for the record and for what it's worth, is that it was a lucky guess as to the tracking of the pipe. I would add, that I didn't see the size of the excavations and how close to the stick line they were where they found the pipe itself, so if the trench had been quite wide, that could help with the luck element. I find my explanation far more credible and convincing than the pre-knowledge, or any ideometer explanation.
So what caused the dowsing device to twitch/move? It can't have been electromagnetic or gravity (we know how to test for these and how indeed to use them to find stuff underground) the only forces that can interact with the device are from the person holding the device, so if it isn't "ideometric" then it has to be a "conscious" decision of the dowser to use force to move the device. Do you hold that dowsers are knowingly moving their device?
