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Who shall inherit the crown after Randi?

I think the discussion about Penn is very much on topic. If someone who is discussed as a possible (or potential) successor of Randi happens to such absurdly woo-woo opinions as Penn does, should this factor into any considerations about his suitability as the potential head of skeptic organization?

It has been stated - by both Randi and Jeff Wagg - that JREF is not an atheist organization. How could that position be maintained, if JREF were to be headed by someone with such "provocative opinions" as Penn?
 
Chaos said:
I think the discussion about Penn is very much on topic. If someone who is discussed as a possible (or potential) successor of Randi happens to such absurdly woo-woo opinions as Penn does, should this factor into any considerations about his suitability as the potential head of skeptic organization?

It has been stated - by both Randi and Jeff Wagg - that JREF is not an atheist organization. How could that position be maintained, if JREF were to be headed by someone with such "provocative opinions" as Penn?
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Why not? They are opinions. And Randi is every bit as atheist as Penn, and just as vocal. The vocabulary may be different, but thank (insert deity here) for that. Don't forget that they come from different times, with a 27 years age difference. You can't expect them to talk the same way.

Is this the only reason why you dismiss Penn? One provocative sentence?
 
Chaos said:
I think the discussion about Penn is very much on topic.
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I don't dispute that, however the argument between you and CFL that already has another thread, is very much off topic.

And to clear up any confusion thatwas what I meant I would split off to AAH, not the whole thread.
 
@Chillzero: Point taken. Thanks.


CFLarsen said:
Why not? They are opinions. And Randi is every bit as atheist as Penn, and just as vocal. The vocabulary may be different, but thank (insert deity here) for that. Don't forget that they come from different times, with a 27 years age difference. You can't expect them to talk the same way.

Is this the only reason why you dismiss Penn? One provocative sentence?
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No it is not.

Sure, Randi is an atheist - but I´m not sure about "as atheist as Penn". At least he does not spend his on-stage time at TAM (or his commentaries) gratuitiously insulting religious people. Sure, he piles on specific groups who adhere to specific disproven claims, but I see no evidence for an "I am an atheist, and all who believe differently are mentally ill retards" attitude like Penn´s.
 
Chaos said:
No it is not.
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What, exactly, is it you have against Penn, then?

You didn't like the comment he made. What else?

Chaos said:
Sure, Randi is an atheist - but I´m not sure about "as atheist as Penn". At least he does not spend his on-stage time at TAM (or his commentaries) gratuitiously insulting religious people.
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What do you think religious people make of this?

Chaos said:
Sure, he piles on specific groups who adhere to specific disproven claims, but I see no evidence for an "I am an atheist, and all who believe differently are mentally ill retards" attitude like Penn´s.
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Whoa, whoa. That's about attitude. Not how atheist they each are.

Don't mistake one for the other. You are not more of an atheist if you have a bad-ass attitude about it.
 
For those interested:

Randi's wishes are that the JREF keep running in perpetuity, including after his departure in whatever capacity that might be. Steps have been taken to ensure that is the case.

There is no chosen successor, and there may not be. Randi cannot be replaced. Hopefully, what he does can be picked up by one or more people.

Lots of names have been bandied about here, but none of them have been asked to take over after Randi departs.

One I can assure you that will not take over for Randi is Penn. Neither Randi nor Penn would wish this, as Penn is not interested in heading an organization. Penn remains very close with Randi, but not in the capacity of successor.
 
I think the Mythbusters guys would be good candidates, if they were so inclined.
 
Walter Wayne said:
Loan? Imagine the embarrassment if the loan was up just before an important television appearance. You'd have to sign over ownership.
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I'm not sure my Better Half would go for that arrangement. She is rather fond of my beard...

Seriously, though: nobody will replace Randi.

Will whoever runs the MDC after Randi's retirement have to be a conjurer? I would think that whoever it is, they would consult with experts in fields which are outside their expertise, much as Randi does now with statisticians and such. If the next person who runs the MDC is not an expert in conjuring methods, he or she will consult one. Maybe Randi himself.
 
Everyone keeps saying Penn Jillete would be a great sucessor.

What about Teller?

A good chance to finally open his mouth.
It'd be like that episode where Bob what's-his-last-name hosts Krusty's show.
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
Everyone keeps saying Penn Jillete would be a great sucessor.

What about Teller?

A good chance to finally open his mouth.
It'd be like that episode where Bob what's-his-last-name hosts Krusty's show.
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Sideshow Tellerwilliker has spoken at every TAM the two of them have appeared at. Hearing him speak would be old news for many of us. :)

I asked Jeff this in chat but he wouldn't say, and it's making me crazy wondering who is the possessor of Randi's secret phrase that he'd say if ever contacted by a spirit medium ala Houdini. That's a mystery I'm much more interested in than who his successor might be.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
Sideshow Tellerwilliker has spoken at every TAM the two of them have appeared at. Hearing him speak would be old news for many of us. :)

I asked Jeff this in chat but he wouldn't say, and it's making me crazy wondering who is the possessor of Randi's secret phrase that he'd say if ever contacted by a spirit medium ala Houdini. That's a mystery I'm much more interested in than who his successor might be.
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Oh I know he has spoken. I've heard him before. But in general lines, his public image is mostly quiet (I was amazed that even in serious interviews where they're out of the "character", Teller still doesn't do any talking and Penn is the only one who talks).
So if he went to become the sucessor, it would be interesting seeing him lead the "show" now a la Randi.


What's this Secret Phrase you're talking about? Randi promised to say a secret phrase if someone actually proves he has paranormal powers?
 
Teller has a wonderfully melifluous (sic) delivery and I wish he'd speak more - despited loving his mime/pantomime act - during interviews, off stage appearances, etc.

Ron_Tomkins said:
What's this Secret Phrase you're talking about? Randi promised to say a secret phrase if someone actually proves he has paranormal powers?
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I was referring to Houdini's phrase that he told to people he trusted and that, if it were possible to communicate from the dead, he would use it to do so. After all these years, no one has guessed it correctly. I was just wondering if Randi has a similar pact so the van Frauds and Sylvia Frowns of the world couldn't claim to speak for him ex post facto.
 
I psychically predict that said secret phrase is written in the envelopes dated 10-24 that Criss Angel has. Raymond "Weels" Hill should've been able to confirm that a few weeks ago; maybe he had some indigestion or something and had to go. :rolleyes:

Teller would be a nice choice if he's so inclined.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
I was referring to Houdini's phrase that he told to people he trusted and that, if it were possible to communicate from the dead, he would use it to do so. After all these years, no one has guessed it correctly. I was just wondering if Randi has a similar pact so the van Frauds and Sylvia Frowns of the world couldn't claim to speak for him ex post facto.
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So let me see if I understand: Randi is the only other person besides Houdini who knows this phrase?
 
zenotter said:
I psychically predict that said secret phrase is written in the envelopes dated 10-24 that Criss Angel has. Raymond "Weels" Hill should've been able to confirm that a few weeks ago; maybe he had some indigestion or something and had to go. :rolleyes:

Teller would be a nice choice if he's so inclined.
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I think you're THIS close to stealing Ferj's thunder. :D
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
I think you're THIS close to stealing Ferj's thunder. :D
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Oh whatEVER. ;)

I keep trying to come up with names of other skeptics who would be a good fit, even branching out in thought to various countries and disciplines (medicine, writing, general geekery), and I can't really think of anyone. Sigh.
 
Jeff Wagg said:
For those interested:

Randi's wishes are that the JREF keep running in perpetuity, including after his departure in whatever capacity that might be. Steps have been taken to ensure that is the case.

There is no chosen successor, and there may not be. Randi cannot be replaced. Hopefully, what he does can be picked up by one or more people.

Lots of names have been bandied about here, but none of them have been asked to take over after Randi departs.

One I can assure you that will not take over for Randi is Penn. Neither Randi nor Penn would wish this, as Penn is not interested in heading an organization. Penn remains very close with Randi, but not in the capacity of successor.
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Jeff, thank you very much for this clarification.

It spurs my following thoughs (weigh them as you choose)

JREF needs someone to step in as an organizer when Randi dies. The Skeptic Movement (there, I've said it) needs someone to herd all the cats in the same general direction.

JREF forums could go to Shermer's site. The Challenge could be trumpeted by magicians everywhere, both high and low profile. TAM could become more widespread, coordinated with Dawkins, Hitchens (yes, I know), the Mythbusters, Criss Angel's site, and the participants of the Skeptic Web Ring.

Efforts would be focussed more, such that RS Lancaster and CFLarsen weren't kind of hanging their own butts out there, and grass roots education of kids, and media exposure could become more coordinated.

(Here's a barrell of good ole Canadian Crude for the fire) I am reminded of Girl6 and her passion for Skepticism.(Kiless, Athon, Teek, Rebecca, Wolfman, etc. please don't take offense) She contributed immensely to the JREF. Involvement with the first Skepchick calendar, the first TAM, bringing skepticism to disadvantaged inner city children in her area....

I don't mean to say she should be "the one" as I'm sure she has a life and stuff. What I mean to say is that I, personally, would like to see an organizer who has passion for this such that the herd of cats sees why they need to stay in line (and is not afraid to contact any cats that they think will help the quality and dissemination of the herd), and has passion for this such that they are constantly putting themselves in the front line as well.

My 2 cents (Cdn) for whatever that may be worth in your currency.
 
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Since I think Penn Jillette is one of the coolest guys on earth, I would love to see him taking over after Randi. I don't know how plausible that is, but I would be very excited if that happened. Also Penn Jillette would help JREF become even more known.

With that being said, I ofcourse hope that our amazing Randi lives to be a 100 or more. :)
 
Badger said:
Efforts would be focussed more, such that RS Lancaster and CFLarsen weren't kind of hanging their own butts out there, and grass roots education of kids, and media exposure could become more coordinated.
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Okay, now there's an image I think we all could have done without... :boggled:
 
Randi should make, in addition to the Million Dollar Challenge, a Be-The-Next-Randi challenge.
 
Maybe now since a media presence is so important to furthering skepticism, that the next person should have more of a media presence.
 
T'ai Chi said:
Maybe now since a media presence is so important to furthering skepticism, that the next person should have more of a media presence.
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Oh ha ha.

You should try a bit harder to be curmudgeonly. This post just came off as whiny.
 
This thread reminds me of the time that my parents sat me down to tell me about their will.

:covereyes

I will just say this and go on with not thinking about it anymore. Penn - No, better as the big, boisterous sidekick of the JREF. Mythbusters guys - No, well not unless Adam stops pretending he's british. I can't think of any yesses. I therefore conclude that it will never happen.
 
A couple of points:

1. I agree with those who have observed that a successor need not be a conjurer, as the JREF could always consult with one. It's not as if Randi walks around doing Million Dollar Challenges on the street and has to be constantly ready to catch some sleight-of-hand.

2. I'd also say that there's no particular need for a "high profile" individual. I think many here might be overestimating how well known Randi is outside the "skeptical community." When I first stumbled across this site years ago, it triggered at most vague memories of some guy with a money challenge for proof of the paranormal, and of some conjurer named the "Amazing" Randi. I'm pretty sure I had never connected the two.

It's dangerous to extrapolate from my own ignorance, but whenever I've mentioned Randi or the JREF to other people, I usually get blank stares. And I could be wrong, but I don't think CNN or other media organizations are putting Randi on the air because they think their audience recognizes him.

That doesn't mean fame wouldn't be an asset, but I don't think it's a requirement. You would need someone who can handle him- or herself well on television or other speaking engagements, but that's a different issue.
 
I've read the thread from the beginning, but I don't believe anyone has mentioned Jamy Ian Swiss. Doesn't he have the appropriate magic and skeptical background?

Has he said that he's not interested?
 
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Math Maniac said:
I've read the thread from the beginning, but I don't believe anyone has mentioned Jamy Ian Swiss. Doesn't he have the appropriate magic and skeptical background?

Has he said that he's not interested?
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I´m not sure anyone has ever asked him yet.:)
 
Apology said:
Someone will be appointed to head the JREF in Randi's absence of course. However, I don't think anyone else will ever be able to fill his shoes. James Randi was alone in stating his skepticism when he started. The fact that we're debating so many different candidates suggests that whoever becomes the new face of skepticism will not be as iconic as James Randi.
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Agreed.
I don't think Penn is a good choice to fill Randi' shoes,though. His recent trend toward using "BullSh-t" to push his own political views is not good,IMHO. The head of JREF,although certainly welcome to his own political views,should not use the forum to push them. I think Penn probably would.
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
Yes, that's exactly that came to my mind a couple minutes after posting the topic: Penn Jilette would be a perfect candidate for that.
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I vote for Teller. I think Penn would have a hard time getting up early enough in the morning to handle randi's job. I mean, Penn couldn't handle a radio show at noon.
 
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