What's wrong with bank asking for star sign?

Ian Osborne

JREF Kid
Ian Osborne
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
8,951
I can't agree that Barclays Bank is endorsing astrology by asking for a customer's star sign as part of an identification confirmation for telephone banking. My own bank (HSBC) asks for trivia like my mother's maiden name, place of birth and a memorable date - none of these things has any great commercial significance, but it's useful for establishing I am indeed who I say I am. Some people might not want to share their birthday over the phone (why is beyond me but it takes all sorts). Asking for a star sign seems a useful alternative. So what's the problem? After all, there was no implication that the bank's services and products were tailored according to customers' star signs...
 
I cannot believe that if a bank asks for your starsign, it has something to do with any "religious" belief. May be some sort of control word - in establishing identification.

Imagine coming into the bank, applying for a loan - and your advisor says; i am afraid your horoscope says that you financially are very unstable at the moment, and you may loose your job next month, and btw - it seems like your girlfriend will leave you tonight.;)
 
Well, a fraudster would have a 1 in 12 chance of guessing correctly, so I would say it's not a very good security question.

Plus, it does tend to encourage the propogation of nonsense, so I don't blame the guy for complaining.
 
Asking the person's star sign is a trick I was taught as a waiter. The idea is that if a person has a fake ID, they may know the birth date on it, but they may not know the star sign on the ID.

Despite being incredibly skeptical of astrology, I still know my sign is Taurus. However, given any other birthdate, I couldn't tell you what the sign was.

If the fake ID suspect showed any hesitation, or had to think what his/her sign was, you would suspect they had a fake ID.
 
thatguywhojuggles said:
[...] if a person has a fake ID, they may know the birth date on it, but they may not know the star sign on the ID.

Despite being incredibly skeptical of astrology, I still know my sign is Taurus. However, given any other birthdate, I couldn't tell you what the sign was.
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The moral is: when making fake ID, use your actual month and day of birth and just use a fake year.
 
The idea said:
The moral is: when making fake ID, use your actual month and day of birth and just use a fake year.
Click to expand...

I think what usually happens most of the time is not that a person makes a fake ID, but they use the ID of another person who looks like them but are older.
 
I must say I think Ian (who I know a tiny bit because we both post on the SDMB) has over-reacted a tiny bit here.

I once read something on phone bank security systems that banks like Barclay's use. One of their concerns is that the operator could (or could be perceived to) rip off a customers account, by subsequently ringing up and giving all the correct answers to the identification questions asked.

This is why they ask for (as an example) only the last three digits of your phone number and not the whole thing: they (the operator) only gets to see the three digits, not the whole thing. So that if they subsequently tried to access your accounts, the system would ask for something else (say the first three digits) and they wouldn't know.

The trick is to ask questions that require the customer to have the primary information (whole phone number, DOB) to answer but from which you can't "reverse engineer" the primary information.

I do think Ian goes a bit over the top in going from "they asked my star sign" to "they believe in astrology". I think they are just using "star signs" as a convenient security question that most people can answer.

It is not inherent in the fact that I know that my birthday falls into a particular span of dates (known as Aries, as it happens) that I believe this has anything to do with predicting the future, blah blah blah.
 
A phone banking service which I use once asked for my favourite band. Apparently I had told them that information when I signed up.

I didn't have a clue, since I don't really have one. I gave a few half-hearted guesses, and in the end the guy felt sorry for me and told me (great security eh?).

Mind you, I never thought that the bank were actually interested in pop trivia. I think the star sign thing is an over-reaction.
 
You guys don't get it do you?

Barclays should stop asking that question, otherwise they are going to upset Ian, myself, and thousands like us who DON'T WANT TO BE ASKED WHAT STAR SIGN WE ARE BECAUSE WE THINK ASTROLOGY IS BULLSH!T

Thank you.

BillyJoe
 
What if everyone answered "I dunno" when they asked the question the first time?
 
I'd be grateful if a bank asked my starsign. Would save me a lot of time, since I would immidiately hang up and dial the number of another bank.

Hans
 
BillyJoe said:
You guys don't get it do you?

Barclays should stop asking that question, otherwise they are going to upset Ian, myself, and thousands like us who DON'T WANT TO BE ASKED WHAT STAR SIGN WE ARE BECAUSE WE THINK ASTROLOGY IS BULLSH!T

Thank you.

BillyJoe
Click to expand...

If you were asked in a general knowledge quiz to complete this sentence:

"The red suited, reindeer sleigh driving man is Santa ????"

would you START YELLING THAT YOU ARE REALLY UPSET AND HAVING A COMPLETE DUMMY SPIT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH IT'S A LEGITIMATE QUIZ QUESTION THAT MIGHT VALIDLY BE USED TO TEST YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF WESTERN CULTURE YOU'RE SO ANXIOUS TO SHOW WHAT A GOOD INDIGNANT SKEPTIC YOU ARE THAT YOU HAVE TO GET ANNOYED BECAUSE SANTA CLAUS IS BULLSH!T?

Zep said:
What if everyone answered "I dunno" when they asked the question the first time?
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And that would be an honest answer for how many people?

Look I don't like astrology more than any of you but I think you're all being a wee bit precious, here.
 
The idea said:
The moral is: when making fake ID, use your actual month and day of birth and just use a fake year.
Click to expand...

And if you're an 18 year old pasty white girl don't try to use a fake ID with the name Dr. Pedro Gonzalez.
 
princess,

princhester said:
If you were asked in a general knowledge quiz to complete this sentence:

"The red suited, reindeer sleigh driving man is Santa ????"

would you START YELLING THAT YOU ARE REALLY UPSET AND HAVING A COMPLETE DUMMY SPIT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH IT'S A LEGITIMATE QUIZ QUESTION THAT MIGHT VALIDLY BE USED TO TEST YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF WESTERN CULTURE YOU'RE SO ANXIOUS TO SHOW WHAT A GOOD INDIGNANT SKEPTIC YOU ARE THAT YOU HAVE TO GET ANNOYED BECAUSE SANTA CLAUS IS BULLSH!T?
Click to expand...
My dear little one, do not fret so.
Lightning might strike and you might be left with that furrowed brow for all of eternity.

Love and flowers from
BillyJoe
 
princhester said:
If you were asked in a general knowledge quiz to complete this sentence:

"The red suited, reindeer sleigh driving man is Santa ????"

would you START YELLING THAT YOU ARE REALLY UPSET AND HAVING A COMPLETE DUMMY SPIT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH IT'S A LEGITIMATE QUIZ QUESTION THAT MIGHT VALIDLY BE USED TO TEST YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF WESTERN CULTURE YOU'RE SO ANXIOUS TO SHOW WHAT A GOOD INDIGNANT SKEPTIC YOU ARE THAT YOU HAVE TO GET ANNOYED BECAUSE SANTA CLAUS IS BULLSH!T?
Click to expand...

Santa Claus is widely recognized as ********, even by the non-rational. Pretending to believe in Santa Claus does not reinforce the idea that subjective and biased perceptions qualify as "evidence".

And that would be an honest answer for how many people?

Look I don't like astrology more than any of you but I think you're all being a wee bit precious, here.
Click to expand...

As we try to build and maintain a rational structure, all attempts (however tiny) to damage the foundation require attention, lest a well-placed blow allows it to become a pile of rubbish.

Some days I actually believe this.

I'm new here.
 
fls said:
Santa Claus is widely recognized as ********, even by the non-rational. Pretending to believe in Santa Claus does not reinforce the idea that subjective and biased perceptions qualify as "evidence".
Click to expand...

So why does referring to a star sign reinforce the idea that our lives are mapped out by the stars?
 
Ian Osborne said:
So why does referring to a star sign reinforce the idea that our lives are mapped out by the stars?
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By not laughing in our face when we know our star sign.

We are not asked which of the four humours or phrenologic topography applies to us. That information became irrelevant when those beliefs were dropped.

Every mention of a star signs acts as reinforcement that someone, somewhere takes Astrology seriously - else why even have something called a "star sign". Every mention by a mainstream organization acts to dissipate the silliness that one would normally associate with the idea. They do not need to publicly support the idea. The fact that they don't ridicule you when you know the answer is enough.

I do agree that the bank likely gave no thought to the validity of Astrology. It is, as others have pointed out, likely a useful security question. However, it is a constant reminder of others' desire to delude themselves. Every mention drives the knife a little deeper.

But my perception is that we are losing ground, otherwise I wouldn't care. Only in isolation can it be considered an over-reaction.
 
For me the most worrying thing about this is the fact that Barclays (and some other banks) are willing to use, as part of their so-called security procedure, information that is not at all confidential: date of birth, place of birth, mother's maiden name, etc - all of which have been seen by hundreds of people and are available in public records such as birth registers. Using an astrological sign is useless since it can be derived from the birth date with no effort.

From the point of view of security, it is completely irrelevant whether that bank, or the customer, or somebody trying to steal the customer's money, believes that astrology is b*llsh*t or horse feathers. Don't waste time questioning your bank about their superstitions: question them about their concept of secure identification.
 
RichardR said:
Well, a fraudster would have a 1 in 12 chance of guessing correctly
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Nope. There are more people born in Leo and Aquarius than any other signs.

Why is that?

Once you answer that, you can think about why there are more people born in Leo than in Aquarius.

:)
 
BillyJoe said:
princess,

My dear little one, do not fret so.
Lightning might strike and you might be left with that furrowed brow for all of eternity.

Love and flowers from
BillyJoe
Click to expand...

No, no, BJ. You've forgotten who is in which role, here.

You are the one who said (nay, yelled) "Barclays should stop asking that question, otherwise they are going to upset Ian, myself, and thousands like us who DON'T WANT TO BE ASKED WHAT STAR SIGN WE ARE BECAUSE WE THINK ASTROLOGY IS BULLSH!T."

I'm the one who took the piss out of you for talking it so seriously.

You are the uptight one with the frown. I'm the one telling you to lighten up. Give love and flowers to yourself, sweetie, you're the one as needs it.

Do try to keep up.
 
Most common starsign

I have had to consult Shelley Von Strucknel's horoscope page of the London Evening Standard to see what months Aries and Leo cover - they are sort of spring and autumn. So I am guessing that it is just our animal instincts that get the better of us and we reproduce in the spring. And during those long dark winter evenings everone is bonking each others brains out, which of course accounts for all the births in the autumn.

This is just a guess - since like all true Gemini's I don't believe in all this astrology guff.
 
Re: Most common starsign

Billy said:
I have had to consult Shelley Von Strucknel's horoscope page of the London Evening Standard to see what months Aries and Leo cover - they are sort of spring and autumn. So I am guessing that it is just our animal instincts that get the better of us and we reproduce in the spring. And during those long dark winter evenings everone is bonking each others brains out, which of course accounts for all the births in the autumn.

This is just a guess - since like all true Gemini's I don't believe in all this astrology guff.
Click to expand...

A good guess, though! :)

Leo is (primarily) in August, and most births occur in August (due to the darkening 9 months earlier).

But why Aquarius, then? That's 6 months later......(oops, I gave it away...)
 
Re: Re: Most common starsign

CFLarsen said:
A good guess, though! :)

Leo is (primarily) in August, and most births occur in August (due to the darkening 9 months earlier).

But why Aquarius, then? That's 6 months later......(oops, I gave it away...)
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Aquarius, I'm going to guess 9 months after spring starts.

But, for which regions is this valid? I'm from the Tropics, and for me things like "seasons" and extremely long nights are a complete novelty. (Currently it's 13 to 11 hours for night versus day in Mexico City, 16 to 8 in Copenhagen). I can't see how "darkening" would affect the the birthrate in the tropics much. Or Spring.
 
Re: Re: Most common starsign

CFLarsen said:
A good guess, though! :)

Leo is (primarily) in August, and most births occur in August (due to the darkening 9 months earlier).

But why Aquarius, then? That's 6 months later......(oops, I gave it away...)
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Southern hemisphere?

I'm puzzled though. Surely mid-winter has the longest nights. That's be December, which would indicate Virgo or Libra births.

My birthday is Oct 2nd, so I know how my parents celebrated NYE.
 
You guys are so close.

Look at a globe. Then tell me if there are more people on the Northern hemisphere or on the Southern hemisphere.

When it gets dark, people go to bed earlier. They seek warmth. Hubba hubba. Humpa humpa.
 
Good thinking Richard - the southern hemisphere.

Here is my next thoery - yet to be verified by the scientific community........sperm travels at a different speed in the southern hemisphere, which accounts for the delay in births.
 
CFLarsen said:
You guys are so close.

Look at a globe. Then tell me if there are more people on the Northern hemisphere or on the Southern hemisphere.
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I give up.

Do you have a source for this "There are more people born in Leo and Aquarius than any other signs"?
 
RichardR said:
I give up.

Do you have a source for this "There are more people born in Leo and Aquarius than any other signs"?
Click to expand...

In an upcoming article, yes. :)

There are more people living in the Northern Hemisphere than the Southern. Ergo, Leos are more plentiful than Aquariusses (what's the plural of "Aquarius"?).
 
Ian Osborne said:
I can't agree that Barclays Bank is endorsing astrology by asking for a customer's star sign as part of an identification confirmation for telephone banking. My own bank (HSBC) asks for trivia like my mother's maiden name, place of birth and a memorable date - none of these things has any great commercial significance, but it's useful for establishing I am indeed who I say I am. Some people might not want to share their birthday over the phone (why is beyond me but it takes all sorts). Asking for a star sign seems a useful alternative. So what's the problem? After all, there was no implication that the bank's services and products were tailored according to customers' star signs...
Click to expand...

If only there were another widely recognised method of dividing the calendar year up into twelve that did not involve overtones of woo-woo nonsense.
 
Re: Re: What's wrong with bank asking for star sign?

Jaggy Bunnet said:
If only there were another widely recognised method of dividing the calendar year up into twelve that did not involve overtones of woo-woo nonsense.
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... and which people knew as regards their own birthday but which people may well not have bothered to learn off in order to know other people's birthdays.
 
This sounds like a case for the promotion of biometrics. If the bank asked for your fingerprint or iris scan, there would be no problem with identifying you..
 
pauldmin said:
This sounds like a case for the promotion of biometrics. If the bank asked for your fingerprint or iris scan, there would be no problem with identifying you..
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A bit tricky over the phone.
 
I am brand new here and have never posted before so if my short comment doesn't fit with this thread I apologise.It seems, however, a logical place for this. If anyone asks me what my sign is I say "do not disturb".

Bill
 
bromac said:
I am brand new here and have never posted before so if my short comment doesn't fit with this thread I apologise.It seems, however, a logical place for this. If anyone asks me what my sign is I say "do not disturb".

Bill
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It seems to have worked.

Linda
 
bromac said:
I am brand new here and have never posted before so if my short comment doesn't fit with this thread I apologise.It seems, however, a logical place for this. If anyone asks me what my sign is I say "do not disturb".

Bill
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Happy birthday, and welcome!
 
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