[Merged] US may close Cuba Embassy over 'health attacks'
- Thread starter dann
- Start date
looks fine to me, but I'm not a vet.Additional symptoms
It may look dramatic, but it isn't, usually:
But since TIs tend to see any kind of ailment as sign of a 'Havana syndrome' attack, they aren't satisfied with any other explanations.
(By the way, in the specific case, Russia is assumed to be the perpetrator.)
Very recently somebody, not an actual TI but definitely TI adjacent, dissed doctors because they won't consider RF attacks (or the use of BCI = computer-brain interface) as the cause if somebody has the sniffles.
He has now blocked me, so I can't present you with a link to his tweet.
It may look dramatic, but it isn't, usually:
But since TIs tend to see any kind of ailment as sign of a 'Havana syndrome' attack, they aren't satisfied with any other explanations.
(By the way, in the specific case, Russia is assumed to be the perpetrator.)
Very recently somebody, not an actual TI but definitely TI adjacent, dissed doctors because they won't consider RF attacks (or the use of BCI = computer-brain interface) as the cause if somebody has the sniffles.
He has now blocked me, so I can't present you with a link to his tweet.
'Syndrome' misc.
Heavy Psych/Spacerock/Doom Improv from my band. The first track off our full-length Havana Syndrome (Jharkhand Assembly - The Decree, MeFiMusic, Jan 9, 2024 - 4:58 min.)
I wonder why those rock bands never make use of the sound from the cricket recordings when they make songs called Havana Syndrome. Allusions to Cuban rhythms would also be an interesting touch.
Since it's The Heritage Foundation, it's the kind of reporting one might expect, but how on earth did they come up with the absurd idea that Cuban troops would chant about shooting Obama in the head? And why would they do so in 2017?
I assume that most of the participants in the polls are either TIs or at least TI-adjacent.
Heavy Psych/Spacerock/Doom Improv from my band. The first track off our full-length Havana Syndrome (Jharkhand Assembly - The Decree, MeFiMusic, Jan 9, 2024 - 4:58 min.)
I wonder why those rock bands never make use of the sound from the cricket recordings when they make songs called Havana Syndrome. Allusions to Cuban rhythms would also be an interesting touch.
Since it's The Heritage Foundation, it's the kind of reporting one might expect, but how on earth did they come up with the absurd idea that Cuban troops would chant about shooting Obama in the head? And why would they do so in 2017?
Most current references to the 'syndrome' appear to be due to the film Leave the World Behind.
This new podcast is one example:
The main story is about the 'syndrome', but its jumping-off point is the film.
A new article about the film also mentions the 'syndrome' and actually taught me something that I should have known but didn't. In spite of the title, it didn't teach me anything about Obama. It taught me that H.G.Wells' novel The War of the Worlds was inspired by the history of British imperialism:
Another article, not about the 'syndrome', includes more of the quotation from Wells:
This new podcast is one example:
The main story is about the 'syndrome', but its jumping-off point is the film.
A new article about the film also mentions the 'syndrome' and actually taught me something that I should have known but didn't. In spite of the title, it didn't teach me anything about Obama. It taught me that H.G.Wells' novel The War of the Worlds was inspired by the history of British imperialism:
Another article, not about the 'syndrome', includes more of the quotation from Wells:
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
It was reported in the Miami Herald by someone by the name of Fabiola Santiago. I can find no verification or source other than this article.
However I did find this:-
Republican Group Under Fire for Email Featuring Obama Shot in Head
So apparently the idea isn't so 'out there' for some people in the US - when it suits them.
Yes, the link in the quotation was to cubacenter.org, which linked to the Miami Herald, and then I found nothing else after that.
12 years ago or so, I translated the subtitles from two documentaries into Danish, one was by Saul Landau, Will the Real Terrorist Please Stand Up, and the other one was by Bernie Dwyer. It was either The Day Diplomacy Died or Mission against Terror, but I no longer remember which one.
But one of those three documentaries ends with a scene in Havana where a Cuban who has pretended to be a dissident while working for the US-financed Radio y Televisión Martí in Miami says that they will broadcast whatever he tells them without doing any fact-checking. To prove it, he calls them on camera a little later his message is on the air from Miami.
The tweet includes a short (10 sec.) video clip from 60 Minutes, but it seems to be from the episode in 2022:
"William Burns told us, 'One thing is already clear: After early disbelief, these injured Americans can no longer be doubted."
It is a dishonest way to present the 60 Minutes clip since the episode never gave any credence to the TI idea that they are being targeted in the USA by Americans or by "one engineer," as claimed in the tweet. In another tweet HaunticonHunter talks about the "family behind the orchestrated attacks." 60 Minutes claimed the exact opposite of the claim that “it’s not a foreign adversary behind the attacks.”
In post 2,119, I mentioned that Len Ber had presented the idea that elevated levels of "neurofilament light chain (NfL) protein and glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP)" in 'syndrome'/AHI patients proved that the 'Havana Syndrome' wasn't caused by mass psychogenic illness.
I pointed out that it proved no such thing since the same pattern is seen in patients with exhaustion disorder (ED). I referred to this study: Biomarkers of brain injury in patients with stress-related exhaustion: A longitudinal study (ScienceDirect/Psychoneuroendocrinology, Volume 146, December 2022).
Now Len Ber is back again with his complaint, both on Robert Bartholomew's Twitter/X page and on his own.
I love the audacity of making up a new sciency-sounding term for 'Havana Syndrome' and then claiming that it is the correct one: "Havana Syndrome (a term grossly outdated, as it is correctly called NKBI - non-kinetic brain injury)".
He also accuses me of not reading the study:
However,
I pointed out that it proved no such thing since the same pattern is seen in patients with exhaustion disorder (ED). I referred to this study: Biomarkers of brain injury in patients with stress-related exhaustion: A longitudinal study (ScienceDirect/Psychoneuroendocrinology, Volume 146, December 2022).
Now Len Ber is back again with his complaint, both on Robert Bartholomew's Twitter/X page and on his own.
I love the audacity of making up a new sciency-sounding term for 'Havana Syndrome' and then claiming that it is the correct one: "Havana Syndrome (a term grossly outdated, as it is correctly called NKBI - non-kinetic brain injury)".
He also accuses me of not reading the study:
However,
As if we didn't know already: It's not just for schoolgirls anymore!
Sweden appears to have had a 'syndrome' case last week:
Larm om gasutsläpp vid Säpos högkvarter – flera till sjukhus (SVT.se, Feb 23-24, 2024)
Gas-leak alarm at Säpo headquarters
Säpo (Wiki) is Sweden's secret service. Maybe people know about it from the TV series Agent Hamilton (Wiki).
Swedish intelligence headquarters hit by gas leak, seven people in hospital (newsrnd.com, Feb 23, 2024)
Hundreds evacuated after possible gas leak at Säpo headquarters (IScanInfo, Feb 23, 2024)
Gas leak alarm at Säpo (RadioSweden, Feb 23, 2023)
The idea that people at Säpo were the victims of a phosgene attack wasn't really consistent with the description of the chemical: Phosgene (Wikipedia)
For instance, you wouldn't expect phosgene to smell like gas: "its musty odor resembles that of freshly cut hay or grass."
However, this didn't stop right-wing media to proclaim that the Säpo agents had been harmed by actual combat gas:
Mass evacuation at Säpo after combat gas leak
Nor did it prevent a Swedish doctor from claiming that he could see 'no natural explanation' for what had happened at Säpo. It just had to be a case of sabotage:
Läkaren: Ser ingen naturlig förklaring – klart tanken går till sabotage (Aftonbladet)
By Monday, however, the last of the secret agents had been sent home from the hospital, and clearer heads dismissed the idea that the Swedish secret agents were the victims of a combat gas attack:
* So says toxicologist Kai Knudsen at Sahlgrenska University Hospital
* According to him, the gas is very unusual
Expert dismisses the combat gas alarm at Säpo
I suspect that this piece of news, which was released very soon after the incident, may have been what caused people at the Säpo headquarters to be on edge:
Sweden clears final hurdle in bid to join NATO after Hungary approves accession (CNN, Feb 26, 2024)
Sweden appears to have had a 'syndrome' case last week:
Larm om gasutsläpp vid Säpos högkvarter – flera till sjukhus (SVT.se, Feb 23-24, 2024)
Gas-leak alarm at Säpo headquarters
Säpo (Wiki) is Sweden's secret service. Maybe people know about it from the TV series Agent Hamilton (Wiki).
Swedish intelligence headquarters hit by gas leak, seven people in hospital (newsrnd.com, Feb 23, 2024)
Hundreds evacuated after possible gas leak at Säpo headquarters (IScanInfo, Feb 23, 2024)
Gas leak alarm at Säpo (RadioSweden, Feb 23, 2023)
The idea that people at Säpo were the victims of a phosgene attack wasn't really consistent with the description of the chemical: Phosgene (Wikipedia)
For instance, you wouldn't expect phosgene to smell like gas: "its musty odor resembles that of freshly cut hay or grass."
However, this didn't stop right-wing media to proclaim that the Säpo agents had been harmed by actual combat gas:
WWI may have come to Säpo when several hundred people were forced to evacuate the buildings after gas alarm
Mass evacuation at Säpo after combat gas leak
Nor did it prevent a Swedish doctor from claiming that he could see 'no natural explanation' for what had happened at Säpo. It just had to be a case of sabotage:
Läkaren: Ser ingen naturlig förklaring – klart tanken går till sabotage (Aftonbladet)
By Monday, however, the last of the secret agents had been sent home from the hospital, and clearer heads dismissed the idea that the Swedish secret agents were the victims of a combat gas attack:
* It is very unlikely that the combat gas phosgene is what caused the gas warning at the Säpo headquarters last Friday
* So says toxicologist Kai Knudsen at Sahlgrenska University Hospital
* According to him, the gas is very unusual
Expert dismisses the combat gas alarm at Säpo
I suspect that this piece of news, which was released very soon after the incident, may have been what caused people at the Säpo headquarters to be on edge:
Sweden clears final hurdle in bid to join NATO after Hungary approves accession (CNN, Feb 26, 2024)
Last edited:
It has been a year since the news broke that there was never any adversary with directed energy weapons attacking the brains of CIA agents and U.S. diplomatic staff. Later that same month, the DoD even stopped its attempts to reproduce those imaginary attacks by microwaving 
brains.
The ODNI report made it pretty clear that there had never been any brain-damaging DEW attacks:
However, many U.S. politicians just won't let the syndrome die. This piece of fiction is just too valuable for them and their politics:
This is the very best way to cause "more incidents," which doesn't bother people like this and is also not the least bit "mysterious."
brains.The ODNI report made it pretty clear that there had never been any brain-damaging DEW attacks:
However, many U.S. politicians just won't let the syndrome die. This piece of fiction is just too valuable for them and their politics:
This is the very best way to cause "more incidents," which doesn't bother people like this and is also not the least bit "mysterious."
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 25,534
A quick Google indicates that the detection of phosgene gas at low levels is easily done. Vide: Selectively Light-up Detection of Phosgene with an Aggregation-Induced Emission-Based Fluorescent Sensor. I wonder if such a test was done . . . and what the results were. 
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster., Tagger
A quick Google indicates that the detection of phosgene gas at low levels is easily done. Vide: Selectively Light-up Detection of Phosgene with an Aggregation-Induced Emission-Based Fluorescent Sensor. I wonder if such a test was done . . . and what the results were.
It's hard to tell from what the media writes. The messaging from Säpo has been as inconsistent and confusing as reports about the 'Havana syndrome' six years ago.
Säpochefen efter gaslarmet: ”Helt trygg” (TV4.se, Feb 29, 2024)
Google's English translation of the short article is fine. The media is clearly confused by the reports from Säpo.
This case, a 50-year-old woman, is obviously a TI/EHS sufferer even though the terms are never used in the report:
I don't understand why the title of the report seems to distinguish between MPI and social contagion.
A short thread on Twitter/X (Mar 8-9, 2024)
I don't understand why the title of the report seems to distinguish between MPI and social contagion.
A short thread on Twitter/X (Mar 8-9, 2024)
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster., Tagger
Sad that there is apparently nothing could be done to treat her delusions.
gabeygoat
Master Poster
Particularly because it prevented her from receiving the treatment that she was there to get:
I assume that they are talking about this kind of surgical closure and not about a lobotomy!
I have mentioned Simon Wessely favorably a couple of times in the thread, most recently in December '23 in post 2,112.
However, a recent article describes how Wessely 30 years ago claimed that ME/CFS was not a physiological disease:
It stresses that physiological symptoms or complaints should not be diagnosed as MPI unless doctors are 100% sure that no physiological damage is present in the patients. As we have seen in the COVID-19 thread in recent months, some people are eager to dismiss ME/CFS and Long Covid as "mental illnesses" even after they were presented with documentation showing that blood tests can reveal if patients have Long Covid:
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14241366#post14241366
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14243674#post14243674
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14243862#post14243862
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14240690#post14240690
or CFS:
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14238312#post14238312
It is still a favourite among C19 minimizers.
By the way, I noticed that my post 2,112 about Wessely referred to "malicious intent" when it should have been malicious incidents. I don't know if I myself or the spell checker caused the error.
However, a recent article describes how Wessely 30 years ago claimed that ME/CFS was not a physiological disease:
It stresses that physiological symptoms or complaints should not be diagnosed as MPI unless doctors are 100% sure that no physiological damage is present in the patients. As we have seen in the COVID-19 thread in recent months, some people are eager to dismiss ME/CFS and Long Covid as "mental illnesses" even after they were presented with documentation showing that blood tests can reveal if patients have Long Covid:
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14241366#post14241366
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14243674#post14243674
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14243862#post14243862
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14240690#post14240690
or CFS:
https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14238312#post14238312
It is still a favourite among C19 minimizers.
By the way, I noticed that my post 2,112 about Wessely referred to "malicious intent" when it should have been malicious incidents. I don't know if I myself or the spell checker caused the error.
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 25,534
Thank goodness we can finally put this issue to rest!
5-year study finds no brain abnormalities in 'Havana Syndrome' patients
An actual paper here:
Neuroimaging Findings in US Government Personnel and Their Family Members Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents
If only.
5-year study finds no brain abnormalities in 'Havana Syndrome' patients
An actual paper here:
Neuroimaging Findings in US Government Personnel and Their Family Members Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents
If only.
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster., Tagger
Thank goodness we can finally put this issue to rest!
5-year study finds no brain abnormalities in 'Havana Syndrome' patients
An actual paper here:
Neuroimaging Findings in US Government Personnel and Their Family Members Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents
If only.
Once again, it has been stressed that the symptoms of the 'syndrome' sufferers are real, but since one can't prove a negative they avoid saying outright that even though the symptoms are real, the alleged sonic and/or microwave DEW attacks aren't:
People with 'Havana Syndrome' Show No Brain Damage or Medical Illness (Scientific American, Mar 18, 2024)
New study finds no brain injuries among 'Havana syndrome' patients (Washington Post, Mar 18, 2024)
NIH probe of 'Havana Syndrome' finds no sign of brain injuries (MSN.com, Mar 18, 2024)
For some reason, CNN's article about the NIH reports is accompanied by an old video with the first CIA investigator of the 'syndrome' to arrive in Cuba where he stayed at the Hotel Nacional:
CIA doctor investigating mysterious injuries suddenly injured himself (CNN, Sep 25, 2024)
It's reminiscent of the story about the white van told by Adam Entous and Jon Lee Anderson: It is possible to imagine that a Russian might be able to hide in a service chase like that, wielding a directed-energy weapon, aiming it (blindly!) through two doors at the CIA doctor in the room across the hallway.
We don't even know if the service chase is actually big enough since the footage doesn't show how much space is actually there. The door remains closed! (Why didn't they ask a Cuban maid or janitor to open it? I assume they didn't since that would have been a story in and of itself: 'Cubans refuse to open a broom closet full of Russian agents and ray guns!') But as long as the door remains closed, it's possible to imagine that anything might be hiding behind it.
I find it more interesting to hear about the CIA doctor's state of mind as he comes down with the 'syndrome': "I slept in my jeans and a T-shirt, in case I had to evacuate quickly."
How do you say that the suffering of the AHI victims was mass psychogenic illness, caused by stress and the idea of an attack rather than by a real attack - without actually saying so?!
FND according to Wikipedia:
So real symptoms but no sign of actual brain injury or any other kind of physiological damage.
As could be expected, David Relman isn't pleased with the new NIH reports about what he likes to call "abrupt-onset, location-dependent sensory phenomena" (i.e. the scary sound of crickets). He writes a much-too-long editorial about how awfully complicated the whole thing is, referring primarily to his own NAS and 'expert panel' reports and ignoring the JASON reports.
This is how he summarizes the ODNi report:
In other words, he insinuates that the result of the ODNI investigation was biassed ('influenced') by their assessment as if the assessment wasn't a result of the investigation but was the established bias guiding the investigation - the way Relman would do it.
But mainly the whole thing is all so very complex that it is almost impossible to understand for mere mortals:
Whereas David Relman's superiority made him not only willing but eager to expose "the possible involvement of malefactors" from the get-go.
It's worth remembering this WP article from as long ago as 2018:
Scientists and doctors zap theory that microwave weapon injured Cuba diplomats (Washington Post, Sep 6, 2018).
It is one of the mainstream-media articles that have aged well.
People with 'Havana Syndrome' Show No Brain Damage or Medical Illness (Scientific American, Mar 18, 2024)
New study finds no brain injuries among 'Havana syndrome' patients (Washington Post, Mar 18, 2024)
NIH probe of 'Havana Syndrome' finds no sign of brain injuries (MSN.com, Mar 18, 2024)
For some reason, CNN's article about the NIH reports is accompanied by an old video with the first CIA investigator of the 'syndrome' to arrive in Cuba where he stayed at the Hotel Nacional:
CIA doctor investigating mysterious injuries suddenly injured himself (CNN, Sep 25, 2024)
It's reminiscent of the story about the white van told by Adam Entous and Jon Lee Anderson: It is possible to imagine that a Russian might be able to hide in a service chase like that, wielding a directed-energy weapon, aiming it (blindly!) through two doors at the CIA doctor in the room across the hallway.
We don't even know if the service chase is actually big enough since the footage doesn't show how much space is actually there. The door remains closed! (Why didn't they ask a Cuban maid or janitor to open it? I assume they didn't since that would have been a story in and of itself: 'Cubans refuse to open a broom closet full of Russian agents and ray guns!') But as long as the door remains closed, it's possible to imagine that anything might be hiding behind it.
I find it more interesting to hear about the CIA doctor's state of mind as he comes down with the 'syndrome': "I slept in my jeans and a T-shirt, in case I had to evacuate quickly."
How do you say that the suffering of the AHI victims was mass psychogenic illness, caused by stress and the idea of an attack rather than by a real attack - without actually saying so?!
FND according to Wikipedia:
So real symptoms but no sign of actual brain injury or any other kind of physiological damage.
As could be expected, David Relman isn't pleased with the new NIH reports about what he likes to call "abrupt-onset, location-dependent sensory phenomena" (i.e. the scary sound of crickets). He writes a much-too-long editorial about how awfully complicated the whole thing is, referring primarily to his own NAS and 'expert panel' reports and ignoring the JASON reports.
This is how he summarizes the ODNi report:
In other words, he insinuates that the result of the ODNI investigation was biassed ('influenced') by their assessment as if the assessment wasn't a result of the investigation but was the established bias guiding the investigation - the way Relman would do it.
But mainly the whole thing is all so very complex that it is almost impossible to understand for mere mortals:
Whereas David Relman's superiority made him not only willing but eager to expose "the possible involvement of malefactors" from the get-go.
It's worth remembering this WP article from as long ago as 2018:
Scientists and doctors zap theory that microwave weapon injured Cuba diplomats (Washington Post, Sep 6, 2018).
It is one of the mainstream-media articles that have aged well.
Last edited:
From the article mentioned in the post above, People with 'Havana Syndrome' Show No Brain Damage or Medical Illness (Scientific American, Mar 18, 2024):
It is obvious that "group psychology" is a reference to mass psychogenic illness, which is only explicitly mentioned once, in the title of Robert Baloh and Robert Bartholmew's book, Havana Syndrome: Mass Psychogenic Illness and the Real Story Behind the Embassy Mystery and Hysteria (Goodreads).
The article quotes objections to the new study from both David Relman and 'Havana syndrome' lawyer Mark Zaid, but it lets Bartholomew have the last word:
The next time I go to Havana, I'll ask the management of the Hotel Nacional if they'll let me see what's behind that door to the service chase. It's probably the last place Bigfoot can still be hiding.
The Scientific American article also contains a list of recommended articles:
It is obvious that "group psychology" is a reference to mass psychogenic illness, which is only explicitly mentioned once, in the title of Robert Baloh and Robert Bartholmew's book, Havana Syndrome: Mass Psychogenic Illness and the Real Story Behind the Embassy Mystery and Hysteria (Goodreads).
The article quotes objections to the new study from both David Relman and 'Havana syndrome' lawyer Mark Zaid, but it lets Bartholomew have the last word:
The next time I go to Havana, I'll ask the management of the Hotel Nacional if they'll let me see what's behind that door to the service chase. It's probably the last place Bigfoot can still be hiding.
The Scientific American article also contains a list of recommended articles:
Last edited:
David Relman revisited
I have mentioned David Relman's theory of sound dissipation a couple of times, for instance in post 1,306:
David Relman mentions it again in the new JAMA editorial:
Over the years, the descriptions of this experience have been adapted to the respective narratives they are meant to support. Notice, for instance, how it was described when the general public first heard about it.
From the OP, Sep 17, 2017:
Inside the head is an adaptation to the microwave/Frey effect narrative. It is inconsistent with the cricket recordings, which made it obvious that it couldn't possibly be the Frey effect: It was not a 'sound' inside the head. It was an actual, physical sound outside the head. Otherwise, it would not have been recordable.
Does David Relman mention crickets or recordings in the new JAMA editorial? No, of course he doesn't!
Does actual, physical sound exhibit a "strong location dependence"? Yes, of course it does, and we all know that it does. The closer you get to the source of a sound, the louder the volume is. And when you move away from it, it "dissipates." Even children know this, but researchers are unaware of this phenomenon - or at least they appear to be when they are trying to make sound sound much more mysterious than it actually is.
Another adaptation to the narrative of a DEW attack is this: "a sensation of pressure, sometimes in one ear, on one side of the head, or in the face or chest."
After all, sound can't cause pressure in the face or chest, can it?!
Well no, not in and of itself, but Anxiety May Be Causing Your Chest Pressure (CalmClinic, Oct 10, 2020) and A tingling, number, or burning face is symptom of anxiety that can cause a great deal of fear. (CalmClinic, Mar 1, 2021).
So the cricket sounds didn't cause the sensation of pressure felt by the 'Havana Syndrome' suffers. The interpretation of the cricket sounds did - whether or not the anxiety victims came up with that interpretation on the spot on their own or had been instructed to look out for these alleged brain-damaging and life-destroying symptoms of alleged directed-energy attacks.
'Mystery' solved! No need for microwaves or "the possible involvement of malefactors."
I have mentioned David Relman's theory of sound dissipation a couple of times, for instance in post 1,306:
David Relman mentions it again in the new JAMA editorial:
Over the years, the descriptions of this experience have been adapted to the respective narratives they are meant to support. Notice, for instance, how it was described when the general public first heard about it.
From the OP, Sep 17, 2017:
Inside the head is an adaptation to the microwave/Frey effect narrative. It is inconsistent with the cricket recordings, which made it obvious that it couldn't possibly be the Frey effect: It was not a 'sound' inside the head. It was an actual, physical sound outside the head. Otherwise, it would not have been recordable.
Does David Relman mention crickets or recordings in the new JAMA editorial? No, of course he doesn't!
Does actual, physical sound exhibit a "strong location dependence"? Yes, of course it does, and we all know that it does. The closer you get to the source of a sound, the louder the volume is. And when you move away from it, it "dissipates." Even children know this, but researchers are unaware of this phenomenon - or at least they appear to be when they are trying to make sound sound much more mysterious than it actually is.
Another adaptation to the narrative of a DEW attack is this: "a sensation of pressure, sometimes in one ear, on one side of the head, or in the face or chest."
After all, sound can't cause pressure in the face or chest, can it?!
Well no, not in and of itself, but Anxiety May Be Causing Your Chest Pressure (CalmClinic, Oct 10, 2020) and A tingling, number, or burning face is symptom of anxiety that can cause a great deal of fear. (CalmClinic, Mar 1, 2021).
So the cricket sounds didn't cause the sensation of pressure felt by the 'Havana Syndrome' suffers. The interpretation of the cricket sounds did - whether or not the anxiety victims came up with that interpretation on the spot on their own or had been instructed to look out for these alleged brain-damaging and life-destroying symptoms of alleged directed-energy attacks.
'Mystery' solved! No need for microwaves or "the possible involvement of malefactors."
A new article by Robert Bartholomew in Scientific American. I don't have access, so no quotation or summary. I assume that it adresses the health bill mentioned in post 2,131.
A 'Havana Syndrome' Investigation in Congress Rests on Politics, Not Science (ScientificAmerican, Mar 15, 2024)
As could be expected, Targeted Individual Len Ber doesn't like Bartholomew's article:
Len Ber is thinking of the report from David Relman's so-called 'expert panel' in 2022 "while completely ignoring" the much more recent and substantive report with a different conclusion, i.e. the ODNI report from March 1, 2023, which concluded:
Len Ber is enthusiastic about David Relman's JAMA editorial (mentioned in previous posts in this thread):
Much like astrologers and other new-wave communities, the argument of TIs (and David Relaman) is that, whatever their preferred belief is, it does not conflict with real (i.e. imaginary) science. There's just the slight current problem that actual science isn't quite there yet, but some day in the near future when science has acquired the necessary tools and skills, it will align with ideas like Saturn's impact on personal growth or the impact of DEW attacks on the brains of U.S. intelligence agents and diplomatic staff stationed in Havana and elsewere.
Any day now ...
The truth is out there!
A 'Havana Syndrome' Investigation in Congress Rests on Politics, Not Science (ScientificAmerican, Mar 15, 2024)
As could be expected, Targeted Individual Len Ber doesn't like Bartholomew's article:
Len Ber is thinking of the report from David Relman's so-called 'expert panel' in 2022 "while completely ignoring" the much more recent and substantive report with a different conclusion, i.e. the ODNI report from March 1, 2023, which concluded:
Len Ber is enthusiastic about David Relman's JAMA editorial (mentioned in previous posts in this thread):
Much like astrologers and other new-wave communities, the argument of TIs (and David Relaman) is that, whatever their preferred belief is, it does not conflict with real (i.e. imaginary) science. There's just the slight current problem that actual science isn't quite there yet, but some day in the near future when science has acquired the necessary tools and skills, it will align with ideas like Saturn's impact on personal growth or the impact of DEW attacks on the brains of U.S. intelligence agents and diplomatic staff stationed in Havana and elsewere.
Any day now ...
The truth is out there!
'Havana syndrome': FND but not MPI?!
A short podcast about the two new NIH reports and their implications:
Jon Stone describes functional neurological disorder (FND) as "a software problem of the brain."
It makes me wonder if Julian Borger never heard about the cricket recordings. It is obvious that the cricket sounds were enough to trigger an "unpleasant sensory experience."
Otherwise, the 'Havana syndrome' sufferers wouldn't have played them for each other and on TV as evidence of an attack:
'Seized by some invisible hand': What it feels like to have Havana Syndrome (NBC News, Oct 13, 2021)
I wonder if Julian Borger would have been as dismissive of MPI as the explanation for the incidents in Havana if the people afflicted had been schoolgirls instead of CIA agents and diplomats.
Julian Borger (unlike Jon Stone?!) seems to find it hard to believe in "these conditions as genuine medical conditions that can happen to anyone."
A short podcast about the two new NIH reports and their implications:
Jon Stone describes functional neurological disorder (FND) as "a software problem of the brain."
It makes me wonder if Julian Borger never heard about the cricket recordings. It is obvious that the cricket sounds were enough to trigger an "unpleasant sensory experience."
Otherwise, the 'Havana syndrome' sufferers wouldn't have played them for each other and on TV as evidence of an attack:
'Seized by some invisible hand': What it feels like to have Havana Syndrome (NBC News, Oct 13, 2021)
I wonder if Julian Borger would have been as dismissive of MPI as the explanation for the incidents in Havana if the people afflicted had been schoolgirls instead of CIA agents and diplomats.
Julian Borger (unlike Jon Stone?!) seems to find it hard to believe in "these conditions as genuine medical conditions that can happen to anyone."
A new article by Robert Bartholomew in Skeptic focusses on the two recent NIH studies* in JAMA and on how they have been received by people like David Relman and James Giordano:
An article that Bartholomew's article links to mentions James Giordano's response to the NIH studies:
It's safe to say that I don't remember ever hearing or seeing Giordano describe the 'syndrome' as a functional neurological disorder (FND) until the Daily Mail quotation. In order for me to claim that he actually never did, it would require that I went through all his articles and interviews, which I have no intentions of doing.
However, I do remember his conversation with Len Ber in October '23:
These ideas would have been enough to inspire people prone to paranoid ideas to develop FND, and they no doubt were an inspiration for Len Ber's attempts to find nanobots in medicine and blood samples. Len Ber seems to have given up on this quest after members of ISF came up with a much more likely explanation for what he saw in his microscope.
I doubt that James Giordano will ever give up his dream of "literally vast arrays of sensors and transmitters to be able to real-time remotely read from the living brain and write into the living brain." The brain-computer interface (BCI) idea is popular on X and in TI circles. It's sometimes also referred to as digital or synthetic telepathy!
I don't know that you have to inhale in order to come up with this stuff, but I hope that an FFP2 filter will offer enough protection.
*
Clinical, Biomarker, and Research Tests Among US Government Personnel and Their Family Members Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents (JAMA, Mar 18, 2024)
Neuroimaging Findings in US Government Personnel and Their Family Members Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents (JAMA, Mar 18, 2024)
An article that Bartholomew's article links to mentions James Giordano's response to the NIH studies:
It's safe to say that I don't remember ever hearing or seeing Giordano describe the 'syndrome' as a functional neurological disorder (FND) until the Daily Mail quotation. In order for me to claim that he actually never did, it would require that I went through all his articles and interviews, which I have no intentions of doing.
However, I do remember his conversation with Len Ber in October '23:
These ideas would have been enough to inspire people prone to paranoid ideas to develop FND, and they no doubt were an inspiration for Len Ber's attempts to find nanobots in medicine and blood samples. Len Ber seems to have given up on this quest after members of ISF came up with a much more likely explanation for what he saw in his microscope.
I doubt that James Giordano will ever give up his dream of "literally vast arrays of sensors and transmitters to be able to real-time remotely read from the living brain and write into the living brain." The brain-computer interface (BCI) idea is popular on X and in TI circles. It's sometimes also referred to as digital or synthetic telepathy!
I don't know that you have to inhale in order to come up with this stuff, but I hope that an FFP2 filter will offer enough protection.
*
Clinical, Biomarker, and Research Tests Among US Government Personnel and Their Family Members Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents (JAMA, Mar 18, 2024)
Neuroimaging Findings in US Government Personnel and Their Family Members Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents (JAMA, Mar 18, 2024)
Correction from the previous post:
I shouldn't trust my memory! What I thought was a conversation between Len Ber and James Giordano was actually Len Ber's conversation with Don Prosser. However, the quotations were correctly attributed to James Giordano. They were excerpts from HDIAC Podcast - Weaponizing Brain Science: Neuroweapons - Part 1 of 2 (YouTube, June 19, 2020) and McCain Conference 2022 Panel: Brain Computer Interface (YouTube, Sep 1, 2022) played during Len Ber's conversation with Don Prosser.
I shouldn't trust my memory! What I thought was a conversation between Len Ber and James Giordano was actually Len Ber's conversation with Don Prosser. However, the quotations were correctly attributed to James Giordano. They were excerpts from HDIAC Podcast - Weaponizing Brain Science: Neuroweapons - Part 1 of 2 (YouTube, June 19, 2020) and McCain Conference 2022 Panel: Brain Computer Interface (YouTube, Sep 1, 2022) played during Len Ber's conversation with Don Prosser.
60 Minutes may be about to repeat the stunt they pulled immediately after the CIA interim report in early 2022.
New teaser from their show on Sunday - and I fear it's not meant as an April Fools' Day joke. (I just noticed that it's also one day too early for that.)
The TIs will love the title!
The first bit has footage of a car chase, but the masterpiece is the footage of a woman with an actual scar above one ear! It's not something I've ever heard mentioned in the 'syndrome' cases.
I think they also used the combination back in 2022: evidence that something might have happened.
New teaser from their show on Sunday - and I fear it's not meant as an April Fools' Day joke. (I just noticed that it's also one day too early for that.)
The TIs will love the title!
The first bit has footage of a car chase, but the masterpiece is the footage of a woman with an actual scar above one ear! It's not something I've ever heard mentioned in the 'syndrome' cases.
I think they also used the combination back in 2022: evidence that something might have happened.
Last edited:
The 'Havana Syndrome' in Germany: Soft-boiled brains
The German skeptics in GWUP write about a recent episode of the crime-fiction series Tatort:
Geschmolzene Gehirne: Das Havanna-Syndrom im „Tatort“ (GWUP blog, Mar 20, 2024)
Melted brains: The Havana Syndrome in "Tatort" (Tatort = crime scene)
In the episode, the murder victim's brain is also described as "soft-boiled."
The conclusion of the GWUP piece is that "As always, "psychogenic mass psychology effects" are the best explanation for the Havana syndrome."
German is usually a pretty precise language, so I don't think that the translation of MPI would usually need two references to psychology.
Earlier in the short article, Relman and his 'expert panel' are criticized:
"However, skeptics dismissed the report as "junk science".
The last one of the seven comments so far is a link to Bartholomew's most recent article in Skeptic.
On Facebook.
The German skeptics in GWUP write about a recent episode of the crime-fiction series Tatort:
Geschmolzene Gehirne: Das Havanna-Syndrom im „Tatort“ (GWUP blog, Mar 20, 2024)
Melted brains: The Havana Syndrome in "Tatort" (Tatort = crime scene)
In the episode, the murder victim's brain is also described as "soft-boiled."
The conclusion of the GWUP piece is that "As always, "psychogenic mass psychology effects" are the best explanation for the Havana syndrome."
German is usually a pretty precise language, so I don't think that the translation of MPI would usually need two references to psychology.
Earlier in the short article, Relman and his 'expert panel' are criticized:
"However, skeptics dismissed the report as "junk science".
The last one of the seven comments so far is a link to Bartholomew's most recent article in Skeptic.
On Facebook.
Last edited:
Despite clashes over reality of Havana Syndrome, CIA agents have been paid for injuries (Miami Herald, Mar 29, 2024)
The CIA agents and U.S. diplomats were harmed by the DEW-attack narrative.
So were all the TIs.
They still are.
Would people like Karen Coats and Kate Husband (post 1,677) have developed EHS if 'syndrome' doctors hadn't first convinced them that their brains had been damaged by DEWs?
The CIA agents and U.S. diplomats were harmed by the DEW-attack narrative.
So were all the TIs.
They still are.
Would people like Karen Coats and Kate Husband (post 1,677) have developed EHS if 'syndrome' doctors hadn't first convinced them that their brains had been damaged by DEWs?
A longer teaser for the upcoming CBS 60 Minutes episode about the 'syndrome':
It doesn't look like a smoking ray gun to me.
The Russian's name is Vitali Kovalev (spelling according to the subtitles). I don't know if this may be the guy: Vitaly Nikolayevich Kovalev (SecretService.gov)
Maybe it's just a common name. This is a Russian soccer player: Vitali Kovalev (Bold.dk)
It doesn't look like a smoking ray gun to me.
The Russian's name is Vitali Kovalev (spelling according to the subtitles). I don't know if this may be the guy: Vitaly Nikolayevich Kovalev (SecretService.gov)
Maybe it's just a common name. This is a Russian soccer player: Vitali Kovalev (Bold.dk)
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Cuba wasn't exactly a paradise under Batista.
Cuban Agriculture Before 1959: The Social Situation
Freeing Cuba from the 'tyranny of communism' would almost certainly improve relations with the US, which should then allow their economy to improve through trade. OTOH there is no guarantee that the people most in need would benefit from it.
The big question you didn't address is - what are you going to replace it with? Our efforts to free other countries countries from tyranny have not turned out as well as expected. IMO it would be better to improve relations and let Cubans 'free' themselves. Unfortunately a certain vindictive US president was only interested in ripping down anything Obama did - and that got us here.
Please don't jump onboard Random person's attempts to derail this thread. There is another thread Protests Erupt in Cuba where the lack of food and electricity in Cuba would be a relevant theme of discussion, but for some reason nobody is interested. People prefer to mention Cuba in threads where it's entirely irrelevant instead of in the thread where it might be.
Besides, take a look at Random person's body of work! The point of those posts are never about the themes of the respective threads.
Besides, take a look at Random person's body of work! The point of those posts are never about the themes of the respective threads.
Last edited:
A third teaser for the CBS 60 Minutes episode about 'Havana Syndrome' tomorrow:
Once again, the combination of the words evidence and may. Apparently, there was "an incident at last year's NATO summit in Lithuania. ... Multiple sources tell us that a senior official of the Department of Defense was struck by the symptoms and sought medical treatment."
The NATO summit in Vilnius took place on July 11-12, 2023.
So four months after the ODNI investigation of 1,500+ cases concluded this:
Four months after the ODNI report, one new U.S. official came down with the symptoms (without the cricket sound, I assume!) of AHI:
I wonder what Vitali Kovalev (see post 2,154), the guy who was pulled over in Florida, has to do with this. Did he happen to be in Vilnius at the time?! Did one of the notes of bank accounts found in his car have a reference to Lithuania? Or can the "device that looks like a walkie-talkie [and] can erase the car's computer data including its GPS record" also be used to cause mild confusion, nausea and slowed thinking in senior DoD officials?
All of this and more on CBS 60 Minutes tomorrow, I assume.
Once again, the combination of the words evidence and may. Apparently, there was "an incident at last year's NATO summit in Lithuania. ... Multiple sources tell us that a senior official of the Department of Defense was struck by the symptoms and sought medical treatment."
The NATO summit in Vilnius took place on July 11-12, 2023.
So four months after the ODNI investigation of 1,500+ cases concluded this:
Four months after the ODNI report, one new U.S. official came down with the symptoms (without the cricket sound, I assume!) of AHI:
I wonder what Vitali Kovalev (see post 2,154), the guy who was pulled over in Florida, has to do with this. Did he happen to be in Vilnius at the time?! Did one of the notes of bank accounts found in his car have a reference to Lithuania? Or can the "device that looks like a walkie-talkie [and] can erase the car's computer data including its GPS record" also be used to cause mild confusion, nausea and slowed thinking in senior DoD officials?
All of this and more on CBS 60 Minutes tomorrow, I assume.
New podcast:
Jon Lee Anderson repeats his favorite hypotheses from his and Adam Entous's VICE podcast series, i.e. that Castro got upset by the many Americans coming to Cuba after the 'Cuban thaw' (Wiki) and then had a faction attack U.S. spyplomats with ray guns. Unlike most others, Anderson thinks that the Cubans would have been able to make the imaginary directed-energy weapons themselves.
Earlier posts about the VICE podcast series: 1,642, 1,646, 1,656, 1,657, 1,658, 1,662, 1,679 + 1,816 1,705 1,817, 1,818, 1,819, 1,822 & 1,823.
Jon Lee Anderson repeats his favorite hypotheses from his and Adam Entous's VICE podcast series, i.e. that Castro got upset by the many Americans coming to Cuba after the 'Cuban thaw' (Wiki) and then had a faction attack U.S. spyplomats with ray guns. Unlike most others, Anderson thinks that the Cubans would have been able to make the imaginary directed-energy weapons themselves.
Earlier posts about the VICE podcast series: 1,642, 1,646, 1,656, 1,657, 1,658, 1,662, 1,679 + 1,816 1,705 1,817, 1,818, 1,819, 1,822 & 1,823.
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster., Tagger
The CBS trailer isn’t viewable in my country.
However, if the show is anything like Australia’s 60 Minutes, it’ll be 45% TDI interviews and believers, 10% Bartholomew et Al, and a 5 minute wrap-up of “you decide”. (Not counting time for ads.)
However, if the show is anything like Australia’s 60 Minutes, it’ll be 45% TDI interviews and believers, 10% Bartholomew et Al, and a 5 minute wrap-up of “you decide”. (Not counting time for ads.)
Can't you access it on YouTube?!
I can guarantee you that there will be no Bartholomew. And I don't think that there'll be any et al either. There was not the least bit of skepticism in 60 Minutes' last episode about the 'syndrome' two years ago - soon after the CIA interim report.
I don't think that it's a coincidence that this one comes immediately after the two NIH studies. Mark Zaid seems to be involved. He has been busy posting and reposting teasers on X for a couple of days:
But both country and perpetrator have already been revealed since Vitali Kovalev was the guy driving the Mustang in Florida, and he had a (gasp!) Russian passport!!!
I can guarantee you that there will be no Bartholomew. And I don't think that there'll be any et al either. There was not the least bit of skepticism in 60 Minutes' last episode about the 'syndrome' two years ago - soon after the CIA interim report.
I don't think that it's a coincidence that this one comes immediately after the two NIH studies. Mark Zaid seems to be involved. He has been busy posting and reposting teasers on X for a couple of days:
But both country and perpetrator have already been revealed since Vitali Kovalev was the guy driving the Mustang in Florida, and he had a (gasp!) Russian passport!!!
60 Minutes has combined its episodes about the 'syndrome' from 2019 and ´22:
So line up the shot glasses, lean back and take a drink every time a skeptic appears!
If there are more of you, rest assured that you won't need a designated driver!
So line up the shot glasses, lean back and take a drink every time a skeptic appears!
If there are more of you, rest assured that you won't need a designated driver!