UPS like advice

[Wudang]

Short version: a sister-in-law lives in Kenya and has frequent power outages to deal with. Ideally she wants to be able to recharge her laptop when mains power is down. The domestic UPS units I've looked at seem to be more geared to dealing with very short outages and are more about protecting against variations in the supplied power. Pretty soon prices start going high and outside her presumed budget.I may be looking at the wrong things as power supplies etc are outside my comfort zone.

My own thought is she'd be better with a bunch of power banks (I have a couple of INIU brand that have lasted years) and use her phone and a tablet of some kind. I have a Lenovo P11 and an old iPad and have used both happily.
So advice sought. Is there a simple domestic UPS type device that can recharge a laptop or is the tablet/phone/power bank path better for varying value of better?
I can't see her remembering to keep a spare laptop battery charged. Or being happy swapping one out.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Check out commercial under-desk UPS units, such as for critical services like hospitals. Designed to keep a standard desktop running for 30 minutes to a couple of hours, depending on the model.

Also, Kenya uses 240V rather than 120V. So a basic US model might not be suitable.

Caution! Any UPS needs to be handled with care. Disconnecting the power input does not stop the dangerous output socket voltages and amps, at least while there is charge in the battery (as designed). E.g. picking the unit up to relocate.

 

[Wudang]

Thanks, she's Irish and part based in the UK so 240v is her standard. Though we do use 110 for building sites as I found when I bought my wife a "professional" power saw.
I guess one thing I am unsure of is when looking at specs for UPS how do I work out how long it would power/charge a laptop? Actually as she has a degree in architecture she may no more on that than me.

It also occurred to me that another option would be a solar powered USB charger as a friend found one useful camping on the Western Isles.

 

[Dabop]

Most of the world uses '230v nominal' (220-240v) lol...

As such, there is a far wider range of products available for such usage than the US typically has...

(Kenya also uses the type G (UK) 13A style socket with a 240v,50hz supply, so no- a US plug with 120v 60hz UPS would definitely be a bad idea...)

A UPS would be 'usable'- but many aren't designed for long run times (even at the reduced power levels drawn by a laptops PSU)- although one of the larger (1000w or 1200w units) would be able to tolerate the longer run times...

(UPS's are notorious for this, as their heatsinking is pared down to the bare minimum needed to handle the short run times for a desktop's shut down times... heatsinking costs $$$)

APC is one of the better brands, and even make a 750Va (1000w) UPS with UK plugs on it, cost about 90 pounds from the UK Dell dealers and APC are available worldwide (I have used them in Australia as well lol, very common here with the Australian 230v plugs, found in many offices under the desk...)

A 'jerryrig' using a 12v automotive inverter, running off a deep cycle battery with a 'smart' car charger designed to be left on and connected to the battery permanently is another option- 'some assembly required' LOL (literally connect charger to battery terminals, and connect inverter to battery terminals- use a lithium LFP battery or AGM deep cycle battery- NOT a 'car battery'!!! (again, all this stuff is best sourced outside the US due to the US being one of the few countries that actually uses that 100-125v range at 60hz!!!) all readily available online

The second would be the better option, as the right combination would tolerate long running periods better than a 'normal' UPS's would, and all three components are again readily available outside the US- this would also allow adding a small 100-150w solar panel with MPPT charge controller if sunlight is available nearby for extended running time/blackouts

A third (but more expensive) option is using any of the 'mains power banks' such as Jackery, Anker or Ecoflow- all are good quality units available with UK outlets (and voltages), and are quite capable of running 24/7 being recharged by the mains (so effectively running as UPS's) and many are capable of handling quite large solar panels as well- anything rated at 500w or more would do the job, although the three I mentioned are the best known, there are cheaper units in other brands as well, but their quality can vary... (again, these need to be sourced outside the US as the US ones will be totally unsuitable for use in most countries, being 120v/60hz inverters and inbuilt mains chargers...)

 

[Norman Alexander]

Laptops use about 20V and roughly 1Amp. P=VI. Your charge and run times may vary greatly.

ETA. Laptops already have batteries, and should run for some time, a few hours, if charged. So they sort of have a UPS already. As Dabop described, plenty of more radical options available that might suit Kenya.

 

[Dabop]

As she is based in the UK,that makes it easy, just buy one in the UK and take it with her (you can usually fly with them, BUT- notify the airline beforehand and they will usually require it to be transported in its own bag, and you will be required to fill out a 'dangerous goods' form beforehand- check with the airline involved)- this would make the third option the best choice...

 

[Trebuchet]

Is a generator an option? We have a fair number of outages and love ours.

 

[Dabop]

Is a generator an option? We have a fair number of outages and love ours.

Generators are again a peculiarly US loved option- they are not so popular in 'TROTW' due to their noise, petrol consumption and maintenance requirements- something like a Anker or Jackery with a portable solar panel array is FAR more likely to be found in use while camping... (here, firing up a genny at a campsite will likely get you a 'sternly worded' request to 'shut that POS off- or you'll be pulling it out of your 'backside' lol!!!

:-O

 

[Dabop]

Re the UK '110v' requirement on building sites- something to be wary of- US 120v 60hZ powertools are NOT recommended- as the UK 110v is a different animal- its a 55v-0v-55v 50hz supply, not the US style 110v 60hz supply- power tools designed for the US can run 20% slower and will be less powerful on the 50hz UK supply, and will not have the double pole power switch required for UK usage!!!! (the UK is alone in this particular requirement, elsewhere the use of 230v nominal tools with a 'earth leakage' breaker is acceptable)

 

[Wudang]

Thanks people. After passing some of this to her and getting feedback she reckons her main concern is actually power surges. - a recent one fried her laptop motherboard - so the APC recommendation is very useful. I think understanding her needs now the surge protection is the bigger concern (and I found a few APC reviews that look good) and we'll buy her some of the same power banks my family use and have found long lasting and reliable.
She recently moved from somewhere else to Kimana where she sees less outages.

 

[Wudang]

Sorry, a lot of the discussion was with my wife as intermediary (she has a BEEng) and some details were miscommunicated. They've both been working silly hours

 

[Dabop]

You'll need to check- there are two kinds of UPS-one runs the load continuously from the inverter, other are a 'switchover'- the second is actually running the load from the mains until the power fails- this will NOT protect it from surges and the like!!! (if the UPS specifies a 'switchover time' then it won't stop surges...)

A mains 'powerbank' would be the better solution in this case (or the separate inverter/battery/charger route) as that would isolate the laptops PSU from the mains entirely- no matter how 'dirty' it is, it doesn't care... because it is always running from the inverter (be it the separate one or the inbuilt one in the powerbank)- the battery will act as a buffer between the incoming mains and the laptops PSU...

 

[Wudang]

Thanks mate you're filling a lot of gaps in my knowledge. My wife probably knows more but her brain's fried from a massive data migration project she's been running. My birthday gift to her was a new WTF (brand) notebook labelled "My research into working with time wasting morons" or words to that effect.

eta : Actually "My research into working alongside a bunch of morons".

 

[Wudang]

Thanks to all of you btw. One of the few places I can come to when I don't really know the question I want to ask.

 

[welshdean]

Try these.

 

[novaphile]

I have a couple of these:

NETYS PE

Practical and cost-effective protection - from 600 to 2000 VA

apac.socomec.com

They continuously 'condition' the incoming power, and provide power for about half an hour in a blackout.
(This depends on the load of course, in my case, one runs the internet modem and phone, and the other runs my computer, hub and monitors).

The power fluctuates here from 220 to 255 volts, but the Socomec puts out continuous clean power.

 

[Dabop]

I have a couple of these:

NETYS PE

Practical and cost-effective protection - from 600 to 2000 VA

apac.socomec.com

They continuously 'condition' the incoming power, and provide power for about half an hour in a blackout.
(This depends on the load of course, in my case, one runs the internet modem and phone, and the other runs my computer, hub and monitors).

The power fluctuates here from 220 to 255 volts, but the Socomec puts out continuous clean power.

Ironically, all of those run on switchmode PSU's- so are quite happy running without it at all lol...

One thing that does need clean power on the other hand in a office setup is if you have a laser printer- voltage fluctuations can cause 'shading changes' as the voltage changes...

But apart from that, all of those are quite happy anywhere from '100v to 240v' officially- in practice down as low as 50v or so in most cases, and up to about 300v at the top end before you are hitting the voltage limit for the caps inside!!!

Note that for Australia's '230v nominal' voltage supply, the legal limit for the mains variation is from as low as 216v, up to 252v- all of that range is classified as '230v'... and within acceptable voltage limits where no damage will occur to any appliance (beyond them, motors can be damaged below that 216v limit (aka a 'brownout') where a motor can stall ie 'locked rotor'- which means too little voltage to get it spinning, but its drawing the maximum current the resistance of the windings will allow- this invariably will burn out the windings if left in that state for too long...)

 

[Norman Alexander]

Another aspect to consider is a UPS ability to ride out a special class of power surge: incoming power spikes.

Usually these are massive but short voltage jumps caused by lightning, and tend to be the power events that blow stuff up. Spikes can also be caused by power company transformer switching, heavy duty equipment switching such as old lift motors, and when a blackout has power resumed (switch-on spikes and surges). Rural areas are especially prone to spikes because the power delivery systems are less protected.

Voltage spikes can go through many PC and printer PSU's, and laptop and modem transformers, which make them so destructive. Because spikes can be high voltage but low amperage, sometimes household fuses will not prevent them. Good UPS's will have some spike protection built in - a spike disperser of some sort. The cheaper switchover UPS models are renown for not stopping spikes. But regenerative UPS models are more resilient. Same goes for other power systems.

 

[novaphile]

The issue that I was dealing with, was network components (in particular the two devices that connect between my network and the national broadband network) were failing.

This was occurring because they were built for a nominal 220V (this is quite common, with equipment being made for 110V or 220V, and in many cases, switchable between the two.)

Since the incoming voltage here is typically 250V*, components were getting cooked over time, leading to early failure.
(Replaced three units in two years.)

Since I've added the two UPS units, I've had no issues. (Six years and counting.)

Note that having these two devices on a UPS also means that I don't lose internet connectivity during a power outage.
(My POE security cameras are also powered from that UPS, which means that the security system can't be disabled by cutting mains power.)





*My local electricity distributor will not investigate 'over voltage' of less than 258V
(I have spoken with them, and they said: "So sorry, but that's the way it is.")

I'd originally wondered if it is my local solar setup that was causing the issue, but have confirmed that incoming voltage remains at 250V overnight. So... my current guess is that I'm near the transformer, on a long 240V leg.

However, if the distributor sets the transformer voltage too high, houses close to the transformer may sometimes experience voltages above the maximum allowed 253 V, which also risks damaging appliances. Most transformers cannot vary their voltage dynamically—any tweak requires a truck visit and possibly a brief local blackout.

Source​

 

[Dabop]

The issue that I was dealing with, was network components (in particular the two devices that connect between my network and the national broadband network) were failing.

This was occurring because they were built for a nominal 220V (this is quite common, with equipment being made for 110V or 220V, and in many cases, switchable between the two.)

Since the incoming voltage here is typically 250V*, components were getting cooked over time, leading to early failure.
(Replaced three units in two years.)

Since I've added the two UPS units, I've had no issues. (Six years and counting.)

Note that having these two devices on a UPS also means that I don't lose internet connectivity during a power outage.
(My POE security cameras are also powered from that UPS, which means that the security system can't be disabled by cutting mains power.)





*My local electricity distributor will not investigate 'over voltage' of less than 258V
(I have spoken with them, and they said: "So sorry, but that's the way it is.")

I'd originally wondered if it is my local solar setup that was causing the issue, but have confirmed that incoming voltage remains at 250V overnight. So... my current guess is that I'm near the transformer, on a long 240V leg.

Source​

Must be old kit if it has a switch for selecting '110 or 220'- thats a linear PSU (the old type that are extremely susceptible to voltage spikes, and the type that gained gennies the reputation as 'electronics killers'...

Switchmode PSU's have no switch- they just accept any voltage/frequency between 100-240v (actually closer to 40v-300v in reality, but defined as 100-240v because those are the 'legal' 'nominal' voltages) and use it to output their regulated voltages- far superior to the older linear supplies as they don't require 'user' selection' of the voltage (always a source of 'magic smoke getting out' when people plug it in when set to the wrong voltage lol) plus their tolerance of extremely wide input voltages means they are far less susceptible to overvolt spikes than the linear PSU's...
Our voltages here are a 'nominal 230v' (used to be classed as '240v' lol- but the actual voltage never changed!!!) but with a tolerance ie 216v to 253v is all classified as 'nominal 230v' anything outside that is NOT acceptable (despite what your supplier claims- there are legal specifications for mains voltage here in Australia, and 258 is WELL outside those limits...)
:-(

Where I am (rural Qld) we have the old SWER (single wire, earth return) powerlines out the front, and especially in dry/drought conditions, those are responsible for so many motor burnouts it isn't funny- our locals have wised up and most now have voltage data recorders, because if they lose a fridge/freezer/A/C during a brownout (under that 216v lower limit) then the supplier (Ergon in their case, I'm offgrid lol) is actually responsible for repair/replacement under the legislation- for years they got around it by simply not recording the voltage, so 'it never went down, so not our fault'...
:-(

With so many voltage data recorders now around, they have been hit repeatedly for replace/repair claims, that they are actually starting to fix the root problem, rather than just palming it off on the end users...
They hate the idea of course, but hey- it's their JOB to provide power to the specs, if they can't do it and they damage someone else's gear, then it is their responsibility to make good on the damage they caused...

They hate that of course, but thats the rules...


https://electricalconnection.com.au/when-voltage-varies/