UK Rape Gangs

[steenkh]

As far as I know, yes, women enter mosques, but usually have to gather in a special room separated from the men.

 

[catsmate]

> No we "know" no such thing as the whole thing is easily determined to be utter nonsense.


Why is it nonsense? Do women enter mosques on a regular basis?

Oh look, you're squirming like a squirming thing.......
You claimed that

I believe you guys know very well that this is true but some kind of „political corretness“, „tribe mentatlity“, peer pressure – or whatever you want to cal it – make you state otherwise.

This is of course utter nonsense. "We", if I may speak for others here, know that the allegations spread by the bigoted scum and their hangers on are lies.

And, by the way, women are not merely permitted to attend mosques but encouraged to do so. If I may be permitted a quote:

“Do not prevent the female servants of Allah from going to the mosque"

But, hey, you don't care about facts, do you?

 

[catsmate]

As far as I know, yes, women enter mosques, but usually have to gather in a special room separated from the men.

Rather like synagogues. Or some Xian churches today. Or the RCC into the 1950s and beyond.
Religion is weird.

 

[aniri]

Oh look, you're squirming like a squirming thing.......
You claimed that

This is of course utter nonsense. "We", if I may speak for others here, know that the allegations spread by the bigoted scum and their hangers on are lies.

And, by the way, women are not merely permitted to attend mosques but encouraged to do so. If I may be permitted a quote:

But, hey, you don't care about facts, do you?

I do. Every Friday, for many years, I attend a fitness club, which happens to be next to a mosque. Every Friday I see muslim prayers gatheing there at about the same time. I've never seen one single woman. Ever.

Or, and how many female mulllahs do we know about?

 

[zooterkin]

I believe you guys know very well that this is true but some kind of „political corretness“, „tribe mentatlity“, peer pressure – or whatever you want to cal it – make you state otherwise.

• The attitude towards women is very different in modern Christianity and modern Islam. I only mean modern times (no matter what the historical sources are). Christian women in the UK are allowed to be Bishops, maybe even the Archbishop of Kenterbury. Muslim women are not even allowed to enter a mosque.

Women can be bishops in the Church of England, but they can't be priests at all in the Roman Catholic Church, nor in some of the other Protestant churches.

 

[aniri]

Women can be bishops in the Church of England, but they can't be priests at all in the Roman Catholic Church, nor in some of the other Protestant churches.

I am in the UK, which is what this thread is abiut.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Catholic Church in the UK doesn't allow women priests.

 

[rdwight]

Which the new government is doing - they've only been in power since July of last year.

What was the timeframe it took the last government to implement after receiving the recommendations? Which have the new one done, which are they planning and in what time frame?

I know there have been improvements but for all the talk of how old this story is, i don't see any urgency. And this doesn't really answer my question of exactly why the backlash to the renewed interest?

Oh look Vixen's spewing out-dated, debunked, right-wing lies. Again.

The (alleged) study by the Quilliam Foundation dates back to 2017 and was debunked years ago. But that fact won't stop you from lying, as usual.

To save you the effort here is a piece from 2020 from ICL (a far less dubious source than the Quilliam Foundation).

So @Vixen, why are you spewing these viscous, right-wing, lies?

This is the problem with debunkers. They hear something is debunked and that's all they needed. To be clear, your article states total distortions of whats in the report. Let's compare what they say to what the report says.

-Home Office report has concluded that there is no credible evidence that any one ethnic group is over-represented in cases of child sexual exploitation.

Research on offender ethnicity is limited, and tends to rely on poor quality data. It is therefore difficult to draw conclusions about differences in ethnicity of offenders, but it is likely that no one community or culture is uniquely predisposed to offending.

-For many in Britain today the term “grooming gang” immediately suggests Pakistani-heritage Muslim men abusing white girls, but the Home Office researchers now tell us that “research has found that group-based offenders are most commonly White”.

While some of the research set out above suggests that there are high numbers of offenders of Asian or Black ethnicities committing group-based CSE offences, it is not possible to say whether these groups are over-represented in this type of offending. As set out in paragraph 75, research to date has relied on poor-quality data with a number of weaknesses. It remains difficult to compare the make-up of the offender population with the local demography of certain areas, in order to make fully informed assessments of whether some groups are over-represented. Based on the existing evidence, and our understanding of the flaws in the existing data, it seems most likely that the ethnicity of group-based CSE offenders is in line with CSA more generally and with the general population, with the majority of offenders being White.

If you think these statements are the same I don't what to tell you.

The main thing to notice is that the report references 5 studies. All of them have Asian overrepresentation in group CSE. They can comment on the shortcomings of data, but there is literally nothing that counters that fact. Why, 8 years after the 2016 change to what demographic information police are suppose to track do we not have better studies that actually refute that? I am not begging the question, I honestly don't know why.

 

[icerat]

To save you the effort here is a piece from 2020 from ICL (a far less dubious source than the Quilliam Foundation).

Link to that report?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Looks like the coverup is still going strong.

Police ask British victim of Pakistani rapist to take down posts warning people about child abuse crisis (yes, this actually happened)

The scandal surrounding the UK government's refusal to acknowledge or look into longstanding allegations of grooming, rape, and other crimes committed by largely Muslim gangs has only continued to grow, with calls coming from citizens, politicians, and celebrities alike for parliament to launch...

notthebee.com

Why should I take the word of a far right CT website?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Mainly that most of the posting on this topic is a joke. A chart that cuts off the qualifying information. Complaints of additional inquiry being unnecessary while complaining the last ones suggestions haven't even been implemented yet. Pointing out this was news years ago as if the underlying problem has been addressed, solved and moved on from.

I mean, the IICSA took 7 years to compile 20 suggestions, of which 5? have partially or fully been implemented in the 2 years since. In any other instance, renewed interest would be a good thing. Renews pressure on legislators to get things done etc. What is the main complaint about this that i am not getting?

You understand sweet fanny adams about this matter and yet you pontificate on it like you are the world's biggest expert on it.

For instance, all the people shouting about how disgraceful that nothing's being done these last 14 years are the people who spent that time in power deliberately making sure nothing could be done. And they're also repeating the racist lies that it's only Pakistanis doing this.

But hey, any lie told in the service of the far right must be good, right?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

> No we "know" no such thing as the whole thing is easily determined to be utter nonsense.


Why is it nonsense? Do women enter mosques on a regular basis?

Because it is a lie, as you well know.

 

[zooterkin]

Women can be bishops in the Church of England, but they can't be priests at all in the Roman Catholic Church, nor in some of the other Protestant churches.

I am in the UK, which is what this thread is abiut.

Not sure what your point is. The Catholic Church is also in the UK, and doesn't allow women to be priests at any level. Some Protestant denominations, present in the UK, also do not ordain women, for example the Free Church of Scotland, nor do Orthodox churches (beyond the diaconate).

The point is, Islam is not unique among religions in the UK in discriminating on the basis of sex in how it treats its followers.

 

[Stout]

Why should I take the word of a far right CT website?

Are we going to come right out and call Sammy Woodhouse a liar or are we satisfied with simply whinging about the source?

 

[Vixen]

Oh look Vixen's spewing out-dated, debunked, right-wing lies. Again.

The (alleged) study by the Quilliam Foundation dates back to 2017 and was debunked years ago. But that fact won't stop you from lying, as usual.

To save you the effort here is a piece from 2020 from ICL (a far less dubious source than the Quilliam Foundation).

So @Vixen, why are you spewing these viscous, right-wing, lies?

Nothing to do with right wing or left wing politics.

 

[Stout]

The Daily Mail has published a rather extensive exposé on this issue that's recently resurfaced and is currently all over the news. I mean, this is the "Daily Fail" it should be a fairly easy exercise to debunk this article and prove it didn't happen. Have at 'er.

Map reveals shocking extent of Asian grooming gangs across 41 UK towns

The full extent of the UK's paedophile Asian grooming gangs shame is laid bare by a shocking MailOnline investigation looking at cases spanning over the last two decades.

www.dailymail.co.uk

​

 

[Vixen]

What do you mean by 'called out'? Is prosecution and jail not enough?

Exactly this: it is not enough. Over 1,400 known victims yet only 47 perps jailed, one or two for life, the rest with 'sex trafficking' (= minors labelled as ''prostitutes') with on average a six-year sentence, out in three years, whilst their victims are traumatised for life.

 

[Vixen]

You are fully aware of the fact that the 84% is the percentage of Asians convicted within the context of grooming gangs?

So, to be clear, that is NOT 84% of cases of CSE nationally.

Haras Rafiq says:
“British white men they tend to work individually. They tend to work online where they groom and they are the majority of perpetrators."

It is right to restate here The Guardian's article on the Home Office report that states that:

Most child sexual abuse gangs made up of white men.

The article specifically mentions Nazir Afzal:
Nazir Afzal, the former chief crown prosecutor in the north-west, who brought prosecutions over the Rochdale grooming gangs, welcomed the report. “It confirms that white men remain the most common offenders, which is something rarely mentioned by right wing commentators,” he said.

“However, it is not shy in reflecting that south Asian and British Pakistani men are disproportionately found in high-profile cases."

(My emphasis).

This thread - as per the OP - is specifically about UK rape gangs grooming minors and young adults as gangs. To pretend that every UK guy is equally represented is what the scandal is about. It is putting the perps above the victims. Presumably because - as one poster puts it - it is 'bigoted' to differentiate.

 

[Vixen]

So no, you have no point, just more Mushie-esque distractions and Gish-galloping.

Mushie doesn't own it.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

People are talking way the hell past each other here.

Lack of ethnicity evidence does not mean there's no overrepresentation, it does mean we lack evidence.
Majority white offenders again does not mean there is no minority overrepresentation.

Much though I despise the previous government, I do not believe they were deliberately letting such crimes continue for some nefarious reason. Nor do I believe "it was only Pakistanis doing this" nor do I think 6 years jail is a lenient sentence.

 

[Vixen]

Will you be providing us with a source for this assertion?

The books Broken and Betrayed - the true story of the Rotherham abuse scandal by the woman who fought to expose it' ~ Jayne Senior, Pan 2016; and Violated - A SHOCKING and HARROWING SURVIVAL STORY from the notorious ROTHERHAM ABUSE SCANDAL ~ Sarah Wilson, Harper Element, 2015.

 

[steenkh]

Much though I despise the previous government, I do not believe they were deliberately letting such crimes continue for some nefarious reason.

Just like the government before that one did not deliberately let such crimes go unpunished - which is what this is all about, if I understand correctly.

 

[Vixen]

People are talking way the hell past each other here.

Lack of ethnicity evidence does not mean there's no overrepresentation, it does mean we lack evidence.
Majority white offenders again does not mean there is no minority overrepresentation.

Much though I despise the previous government, I do not believe they were deliberately letting such crimes continue for some nefarious reason. Nor do I believe "it was only Pakistanis doing this" nor do I think 6 years jail is a lenient sentence.

Of course they have the evidence - criminal statistics - but they just won't publish them. This is the scandal. The reports all concentrate on the victims:

• they were too drunk or drugged to be reliable witnesses
• they went back to the same guy/s who were abusing them.
• they were very young - some as young as 11 - vulnerable from care homes (what can we do to protect them more???)

Alex Jay's report looked at child sex abuse generically, i.e., mostly in-family abuse - and made a disingenuous claim it is not possible to identify any particular demographic except 'white' - a meaningless term in the UK when people are more likely to categorise by nationality (Albanian, East European, Irish, etc), religion, (Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Sikh, Hindu, etc) or ethnicity (traveller, Irish traveller, Roma). It's an evasion to claim it is 'not possible' to know which demographic is predominantly doing the UK rape gangs. Rubbish!

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Of course they have the evidence - criminal statistics - but they just won't publish them.

Can you be specific about who "they" are, and what information was collected and not published?

 

[Vixen]

Can you be specific about who "they" are, and what information was collected and not published?

You'll note the reports are about the victims. See Darat's reference to a report done a few years back which is about 'safeguarding the victims'. He thinks the issue has now been addressed, end of. But the core cause of the issue has been swept under the carpet.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Is there any contradiction between the claim that abused girls were returning to their abusers and the claim that social workers told police that girls from care homes were choosing to return to their abusers?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You'll note the reports are about the victims. See Darat's reference to a report done a few years back which is about 'safeguarding the victims'. He thinks the issue has now been addressed, end of. But the core cause of the issue has been swept under the carpet.

What recommendations were made regarding safeguarding victims, or potential victims, and have these been implemented?

What is the "core cause"?

 

[Vixen]

Is there any contradiction between the claim that abused girls were returning to their abusers and the claim that social workers told police that girls from care homes were choosing to return to their abusers?

What people are evading is that the rape gangs were NOT the run of the mill common-or-garden domestic abuse scenario, where abusive guy gets nicked but then the girlfriend or wife takes him back. You are missing that these girls were underaged yet they are labelled as prostitutes as though they were engaged in ordinary normal relationships.

 

[Poem]

This thread - as per the OP - is specifically about UK rape gangs grooming minors and young adults as gangs. To pretend that every UK guy is equally represented is what the scandal is about. It is putting the perps above the victims. Presumably because - as one poster puts it - it is 'bigoted' to differentiate.

I find your wording confusing Vixen.

Why do you suggest that anyone is contesting what you state as fact:
Well, peeps, are we any closer to NAMING the key demographic in the grooming gangs scandal?

Yes, that is a fact - one recognised by the Home Office report. Pointing out, as I did, that this does not constitute a spike because when when looks holistically (ie at all perpetrators - including those who are active outside of gangs which tend to be whites), then there is no clear evidence that there is an overrepresentation of Pakistanis.

The only caveat is the incompleteness of recording for ethnicity.

Do you accept that this is a correct understanding of the facts as we have them so far? If i am wrong then please do correct me.

 

[Darat]

What was the timeframe it took the last government to implement after receiving the recommendations? Which have the new one done, which are they planning and in what time frame?

I…snip

For the last government - infinity, they had two years and did nothing, the new government has a bill going through at this moment that deals with some of the recommendations. Because of the posture politics the ex-government is wanting to scupper the bill because ….? The likes of Musk want to also scupper the bill because…..? If anyone wanted to follow the reccomensations of the report in 2022 they would not want to scupper the bill going through at the moment. There is not an iota of sincere concern for children motivating the opposition, Farage, Musk et all. That is why for those of us that want children to be safer, to be more protected are pushing back at the fake outrage.

 

[Darat]

You'll note the reports are about the victims. See Darat's reference to a report done a few years back which is about 'safeguarding the victims'. He thinks the issue has now been addressed, end of. But the core cause of the issue has been swept under the carpet.

Unsurprisingly your mind reading failed.

 

[Darat]

What people are evading is that the rape gangs were NOT the run of the mill common-or-garden domestic abuse scenario, where abusive guy gets nicked but then the girlfriend or wife takes him back. You are missing that these girls were underaged yet they are labelled as prostitutes as though they were engaged in ordinary normal relationships.

You need to change your “are” to “were”.

 

[Vixen]

What recommendations were made regarding safeguarding victims, or potential victims, and have these been implemented?

What is the "core cause"?

As you know out of 25 (iirc) only a couple have been implemented, This includes believing the victims when they report a sex crime.

The core cause of the rape gangs are the perps who, because they come from a culture claiming they are in control of women, in terms of what 'their' women are allowed to wear, where they are allowed to go, who they are allowed to have sex with; can not only victimise girls who accept their free kebabs are now their property and being disgusting unclean girls - according to their belief system - who go out at one o'clock in the morning in sexy clothes enjoying flirting, they can now exert violence and rape on them with impunity because they are contemptible 'trash', is their rationale, whilst they have a right to practice their culture of controlling any female within their sphere and it is bigoted right wing propaganda for anyone to call them out on it.

This is why nothing much has been done to protect women and girl from violence. It is considered OK for crossbow killers to murder and rape their ex-girlfriend plus her sister and mother, for daring to express independence from the perp, and for a guy who beat and imprisoned three previous wives/girlfriends and yet still get custody of poor little Sarah who was then tortured to death by him, because of a belief these perps have more right to their oppressive beliefs than their victims have to be treated with dignity, and the right to not be controlled by the perp, just because they stupidly once accepted a free can of ice cold coca-cola from him or because they want to end the relationship. We are not allowed to refer to those beliefs. That is the scandal.

 

[Darat]

Is there any contradiction between the claim that abused girls were returning to their abusers and the claim that social workers told police that girls from care homes were choosing to return to their abusers?

When I first read about this story - something like 2010 - I found it almost unbelievable that children would be treated in such a way by the police and many in positions of authority. Sadly it was only almost unbelievable because I’ve followed many of the stories about institutions failing children time and time again, and not only failing children at the time but trying to cover up institutional failings. (Plus I have to also consider my own bias against the GM police, which will always lean towards them being scum.) Thankfully there were whistleblowers and some good journalists that wouldn’t accept the coverups. It’s still a sad fact that kids from our underclass and sadly kids in care homes are regraded as such by many are still not regarded the same as those from “good families”.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Yes, obviously it's considered okay to murder your ex and her family with a crossbow, but what has that to do with this case?

 

[Wildy]

Why has this suddenly become news now?

Wasn't there an investigation years ago that found that a couple of "gangs"/families of Pakistani descent in a couple of towns did this? Serious stuff, but localised/isolated.

Seems to me a new bout of racism has inflated this to a mass social panic.

Since this thread has a bunch of unsourced claims I may as well add another one to the mix: it's suddenly become news now because Musk made a big deal about it in order to divert attention/criticism away from his stance on skilled migration to the US.

 

[Lithrael]

Let me get this straight. It sounds like the problem was/is part 'police don't care much about working to help street kids' and part 'there are gangs that police/courts don't want to deal with and can a) ignore the problem and blame it on 'too much pressure to be racially sensitive' or b) actually feel so much pressure to be racially sensitive that they think they'll get slapped for things like... calling a guy of Pakistani descent 'too violent to be awarded custody of his daughter' for doing crossbow murder. And so they ignore the problem'

I have a hard time believing that any of it at the boots-on-ground level is actually about any mandate to be more racially sensitive. Reporting, maybe, but presumably even if you leave out the demographics you're still reporting WHERE it happened and that's what resource allocations are based on anyway.

Anyway I always feel like profiling puts the cart before the horse. It's not helpful to be extra-wary of Pakistani guys in general EVEN WHEN most crime is done by Pakistani guys, because MOST of EVERY demographic isn't doing any significant crime at all. Be extra wary of people in a position to be doing something shady. You don't need to be more or less sharp eyed about a car idling on the street corner at 1 am depending on who's driving it.

I suppose it would be useful in messaging to girls who are/will be stuck out on the street, though. Let's make an overly outragey person write an article about how muslims are being demonized in the eyes of girls with no options who are aging out of the system.

 

[Vixen]

Yes, obviously it's considered okay to murder your ex and her family with a crossbow, but what has that to do with this case?

The guy in question obviously thought he owned his ex-girlfriend. Because these harmful-to-women belief systems are considered sovereign to those who hold them over and above women's rights to safety and to do what they want, with freedom from violence, the issue never gets addressed. Hence the guy who brutally killed his daughter was never challenged by the courts as to his controlling beliefs about women. This guy beat up and imprisoned three former partners but that's OK, he's entitled to his belief system that he is in charge.

Even Labour minister Wes Streeting admits this is set in stone - today he is confirming that they dare not call it out in case there is a Christchurch-style massacre by an angry extremist. Brilliant logic, Wes!





_NOT!

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It's the courts' job to jail criminals for their crimes, not for thought-crimes, such as a sense of entitlement to commit crimes.

 

[Poem]

Labour minister Wes Streeting admits this is set in stone - today he is confirming that they dare not call it out in case there is a Christchurch-style massacre by an angry extremist. Brilliant logic, Wes!

Source?