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Tuttletwins.com... super not socialist homeschool material.

I would not want children learning that their GOP governments are doing the exact opposite of what these books say they should be doing. Or that the reality of how other countries work things better than the USA is contrary to what these books say are "good things". No, better to indoctrinate them young.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I would not want children learning that their GOP governments are doing the exact opposite of what these books say they should be doing. Or that the reality of how other countries work things better than the USA is contrary to what these books say are "good things". No, better to indoctrinate them young.
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In one of the books, the twins make fun of the child labor laws, but are these laws really a problem?

ETA: /sarcasm for clarity
 
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AmyStrange said:
In one of the books, the twins make fun of the child labor laws, but are these laws really a problem?

ETA: /sarcasm for clarity
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Well, given a Sunday, I browsed it a bit. It is the weirdest kettle of crazy that I would not inflict on anyone's child let alone my own.
 
The left wing propaganda that teachers often teach to children is equally as biased.

We should not be teaching philosophies like these to primary children because they are generally not ready for critical thinking so whatever they get taught becomes indoctrination.
 
psionl0 said:
The left wing propaganda that teachers often teach to children is equally as biased.
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V097MA8

WTAF.

Teachers gave some left wing agenda?

I was a teacher back in the 90s. I know a hatload of other teachers. Where do you get such nonsense?
psionl0 said:
We should not be teaching philosophies like these to primary children because they are generally not ready for critical thinking so whatever they get taught becomes indoctrination.
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Nope. I have two of my own and I made sure they learned critical thinking before they even reached double digits in age.
 
abaddon said:
Soooooo, you can't read the thread title and find the website in question? Jeez.
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Here is how the OP looked to me when I first read this yesterday:




Since the OP mentions an "ad" and there was a blue question mark for an image missing, I just assumed that it was a bad link. I didn't open the Tuttle url because I thought it might be NSFW or something.
 
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carlitos said:
Here is how the OP looked to me when I first read this yesterday:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_33467620ad4b4d9764.jpg[/qimg]


Since the OP mentions an "ad" and there was a blue question mark for an image missing, I just assumed that it was a bad link. I didn't open the Tuttle url because I thought it might be NSFW or something.
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Oh I opened all the links. Not recommended. It was bonkers starting with the inability to piece together actual links..

No my kids are grown up adults. I love them and I love how they say "WTF is this now?"

Were they to sign up here, they would not long avoid a ban, because they would be too honest.

Perhaps that is something to think about.
 
abaddon said:
Nope. I have two of my own and I made sure they learned critical thinking before they even reached double digits in age.
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They may have learned to make the right noises (to you) but I doubt that they were truly critical thinkers pre-teen. Their brains would normally not be developed enough. (Filling their heads with propaganda of any sort is still a bad thing).
 
psionl0 said:
The left wing propaganda that teachers often teach to children is equally as biased.

We should not be teaching philosophies like these to primary children because they are generally not ready for critical thinking so whatever they get taught becomes indoctrination.
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Yeah! Teaching children the values of cooperation, fairness and consideration for others is a total left wing plot to indoctrinate children into socialism!!! :rolleyes:

(See I included the sarcasm smiley!)
 
AmyStrange said:
In one of the books, the twins make fun of the child labor laws, but are these laws really a problem?

ETA: /sarcasm for clarity
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To some USAian employers, yes indeed. One of the reasons the USA lags so far behind the rest of the 'developed' world.
 
psionl0 said:
The left wing propaganda that teachers often teach to children is equally as biased.

We should not be teaching philosophies like these to primary children because they are generally not ready for critical thinking so whatever they get taught becomes indoctrination.
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Can you provide examples?
 
This paragraph from their site says a lot starting off:

Our books recognize that the world is full of companies, people, and politicians who want to expose your children to ideas you do not support.

Gee. "companies" get listed first. I thought they were against Marxism/Socialism.
 
Looks like great stuff. Our philosophy though was to have the kids reading adult level books from the earliest possible date.

So they didn't have a problem with the Austrian School material by what would be second grade. Von Mises is a slow, pondering, weighty writer but compared to Dr. Seuss there is a lot more life value.

The older boy is 12 now and codes in 6 languages. He is working with a top micro-controller field applications engineer for Renesas Corporation, on their suite of products. The 11 year old is making $100/hour running the bulldozer.
 
psionl0 said:
The left wing propaganda that teachers often teach to children is equally as biased.
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Got a source for this or is this your version of the opposite-twins and just as an imaginary world as the ones the Libertarians live in?

psionl0 said:
We should not be teaching philosophies like these to primary children because they are generally not ready for critical thinking so whatever they get taught becomes indoctrination.
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That needs a bit of modification. Kids would be ready for critical thinking if schools taught those skills. But I do agree those books are not teaching to the level the kids are at given the age of the twins in the ad. It's definitely indoctrination.
 
psionl0 said:
They may have learned to make the right noises (to you) but I doubt that they were truly critical thinkers pre-teen. Their brains would normally not be developed enough. (Filling their heads with propaganda of any sort is still a bad thing).
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:rolleyes:

Good grief! Just what do you know about child development? Not much I gather from your posts in this thread.

I also taught my son critical thinking skills beginning at an early age and I can guarantee you he had and still has the skills. He's 32 now. It's clear he wasn't just mouthing words as a preteen.
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
Looks like great stuff. Our philosophy though was to have the kids reading adult level books from the earliest possible date.

So they didn't have a problem with the Austrian School material by what would be second grade. Von Mises is a slow, pondering, weighty writer but compared to Dr. Seuss there is a lot more life value.

The older boy is 12 now and codes in 6 languages. He is working with a top micro-controller field applications engineer for Renesas Corporation, on their suite of products. The 11 year old is making $100/hour running the bulldozer.
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Or you could expose them to something more intellectually robust....

It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history.
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Just what do you know about child development?
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My formal training is limited to Piaget's theory about the stages of cognitive development and Kohlberg’s stages of moral development.

These theories have their limitations but evidently trying to teach a child "critical thinking" before they have reached a sufficient level of development is ineffective.
 
psionl0 said:
My formal training is limited to Piaget's theory about the stages of cognitive development and Kohlberg’s stages of moral development.

These theories have their limitations but evidently trying to teach a child "critical thinking" before they have reached a sufficient level of development is ineffective.
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That level would be about the age of 5. Before that the lessons are closer to home: sharing, not hitting and why, how not to hurt the cat, how to deal with bullying and so on. But I started teaching my son critical thinking about toy commercials pretty early on. You need to start as early as the commercials start deceiving them.


This isn't the video I had but it's similar. This one is for kids about 7 or 8. The one I had was from Consumer Reports and showed kids how commercials were edited, for example to make a toy game look easy to use but when you see the unedited one kids drop the game toy more times than they catch it. It showed how all the extras were added to action figure commercials that didn't come with the action figure. That's not too complicated for a 5 yr old to understand.

This video starts with how they make some fake sounds in commercials. Skip to minute 2 where they address ads telling you to "buy them all." Next they show actually testing shoes to see if they make you jump higher or run faster. They don't just tell the kids the shoes don't do those things. It teaches the kids how to test the claims before deciding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgP3_ZJVs7k


Mind you the Tuttletwins video and books are pure propaganda. Kids might need to be about 10 or so to learn about those indoctrination type tools. They can certainly learn critical thinking about indoctrination early on.

For example my son got a Christmas card with a candy cane from school. The message was a lie about the first candy cane and a Christian candy maker. I looked into the story and found it started with a kid's book only a couple years earlier, not a thousand years ago by a shepard and a candy maker. (I thought the teacher had given out the cards but it turned out it was from another student but that's another story.)

If I were going to teach my kid about the Tuttletwin books, I would point out there is no rebuttal or even different POVs. Kids are smart enough to understand that maybe in middle school but definitely by high school.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
That level would be about the age of 5.
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There is no one size fits all here. For some kids, it will probably be a lot older than 5.

By all means, teach children the correct behaviours but be prepared to accept that it may take longer before they understand why you teach them those behaviours.
 
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