Trump's Second Term

Trump gave his two week warning. Only a lot of people knew he was going to act and demand things from Iran. As soon as Israel acted june 13th, iran made plans to truck everything out of the facilities. Trump's surprise "two days after" was no surprise.
 
Can't help but think the USA may have just bombed some cardboard and tinfoil decoys... Doubtful that any country developing nuclear weapons has signs on the fences advertising the sites.
 
Tero said:
Trump gave his two week warning. Only a lot of people knew he was going to act and demand things from Iran.
As soon as Israel acted june 13th, iran made plans to truck everything out of the facilities. Trump's surprise "two days after" was no surprise.
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Says who? The Trump administration? This is a central problem. Trump and his administration has proven itself over and over and over again to be dishonest. Why would anyone believe them?
 
acbytesla said:
Says who? The Trump administration? This is a central problem. Trump and his administration has proven itself over and over and over again to be dishonest. Why would anyone believe them?
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This is one of those things where it's reasonable to question the source of the claim, yes, but it would be thoroughly unsurprising to be true. Trump's track record with regards to Iran is horrendous enough that Iran rapidly taking steps to guard against his all too likely aggression is outright sensible. With that said, Israel's strikes would have also made it entirely sensible for Iran to take similar precautions.

As a side note, those complaining about Biden not bringing back the Iran deal do have something of a point, but it's a point that's practically irrelevant compared to the fallout from Trump and the Republicans' actions. Trump disregarding and nullifying any deal made with Iran, again, would pretty much be expected by everyone, especially Iran, after all.
 
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Garrison said:
To prove they could? As a bargaining chip? To improve their technological capabilities? The fact is that is that all the evidence presented says they didn't even have a functional bomb program let alone being weeks away from building one. All Trump has done is further destabilize the Middle East and increase the risks to US citizens around the world.
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For decades, US foreign policy has been clear. If you don't have nukes, doing something that even mildly annoys us will get you bombed and/or invaded. If you have nukes, you can do whatever you want and you'll get little more than a firmly-worded letter.
If a nation is worried that the US may dislike them at some point, it's in their best interests to look into the possibility of nukes.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Not a cult

Q: The DNI concluded in March that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon. So what new intelligence does the US have since then that Iran changed its position?

HEGSETH: The president has made it very clear that he's looked at all the intelligence and come to the conclusion that the Iranian nuclear program is a threat

https://twitter.com/x/status/1936764279090245889
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The president has made it very clear that [lorem ipsum]…
 
I really have problems with the Iran is an innocent party belief common in these threads.
There are colficting ideas of how close Iran was t a nuclaer weapon, but I think poo pooing of Iran's Nulcear ambitions I see here is wrong and dangerous.
There really is a if Trump does not like you, you must be a good guy attitude among some poseter hers.\Of course they will deny it.
 
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Andy_Ross said:
BRENNAN: Why would Iran agree to any peace deal if the US has already pulled out of one that they had, as President Trump did in 2018, and now launched surprise attacks?

RUBIO: The ones that shouldn't be trusted are the Iranians

https://twitter.com/x/status/1936799388921102766
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JFC! He didn’t answer the question, Marge! Ask it again and again and don’t stop until he does, directly! ◊◊◊◊!
 
Andy_Ross said:
WELKER: Do you and President Trump trust the US intelligence community and its assessments?

JD VANCE: Of course we trust our intelligence community, but we also trust our instincts

https://twitter.com/x/status/1936792767935488140
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Now…ask the follow up to his insipid answer: And when the two are 180 degrees out of alignment?

◊◊◊◊ the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ incompetent ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ media!
 
dudalb said:
I really have problems with the Iran is an innocent party belief common in these threads.
There are colficting ideas of how close Iran was t a nuclaer weapon, but I think poo pooing of Iran's Nulcear ambitions I see here is wrong and dangerous.
There really is a if Trump does not like you, you must be a good guy attitude among some poseter hers.\Of course they will deny it.
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No one is saying that. Least of all me. Still, I have much less faith in Trump than I did in George W. Bush. I mean Bush only lied occasionally. I trusted George W. Bush and he was lying about Iraq.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.....
 
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Both Ukraine and Iran got attacked because they didn't have nukes.
This is the result of the Israeli and US attacks: every State will want to have nukes.
 
acbytesla said:
I don't think anyone should trust the Ayatollah.
I don't think anyone should trust Netanyahu.
I don't think anyone should trust Putin.
And I don't think anyone should trust Trump and his collection of sycophants.

I'm not sure where that leaves us.
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As regular people living ordinary lives, with no power over the affairs of nations, no matter how strongly we feel about current events?
 
Planigale said:
What you say makes sense. I think Trump is genuinely anti-war, he would just see it as a waste of money. I think he genuinely wants a 'deal'. So I did wonder what precipitated this attack. What did Netanyahu say to him? Perhaps Netanyahu said he'd nominate him for the Nobel peace prize if he attacked Iran? Perhaps some influential people have purchased oil futures and need the oil price to rise? Perhaps fundamentalist end times Christians working to bring Armageddon and the rapture closer whispered in his ear.
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No offense but you sound like Senator, "I think he learned his lesson" Collins.

 
newyorkguy said:
I'm not sure this was answered. trump announced the B2s returned to "Missouri." Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri -- about 50 miles southeast of Kansas City -- is reported to be the current home of the B2 Spirit bombers. By the way, Iran is over 7,000 miles from the base. The B2's cruising speed is reportedly 560 mph so it would have been a round-trip of over 24 hours.
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And they refueled in flight.
 
Hercules56 said:
Surely Iran understands that enrichment to 60% would scare the crap out of the USA and Israel, causing them to consider military action. If they kept enrichment levels to purely civilian numbers, 4%, they would have a damn good argument that their intentions are purely peaceful.
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They agreed to this previously, they got rid of their stocks of enriched uranium, then Trump backed out of the deal. So doing this was not successful. Been there done that Iran could say.
www.statista.com

Infographic: The Development Of Iran's Uranium Stockpile

This chart shows Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium by quarter.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
The object was to do what worked before use the enriched uranium as an incentive for the US to return to negotiations.
 
Hercules56 said:
None of those nations are funding and arming religious nutcase militias that have killed thousands of people and call for other nations to be destroyed on a daily basis.

None of the former Soviet republics posess nukes, so you're clearly not very knowledgeable about this subject.
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Well, it has certainly been suggested the US has funded religious nut case militias, as has Pakistan. India certainly has a right wing religious government. North Korea may not technically be a theocracy but it certainly is based on a cult of personality. Israel has an extreme right wing religious government whose members have called on a regular basis for the destruction of the Palestinian people.
 
D VANCE: Of course we trust our intelligence community, but we also trust our instincts
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This is unfortunately recurrently true, that instincts trump (pun deliberate) facts in the current US government. From the view on the origin of Covid-19, to the effect of tariffs on the economy, to RFK and his clique on vaccines, we see irrational policy making.
 
TragicMonkey said:
As regular people living ordinary lives, with no power over the affairs of nations, no matter how strongly we feel about current events?
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It has ALWAYS been this way, friend.
In the US we have or maybe had..some power because next election we could throw the rascals out..no doubt Iraq cost the GOP hugely in the 2006 and 2008 elections...but still, history seems to move with little regard to what average people want.
 
Planigale said:
Well, it has certainly been suggested the US has funded religious nut case militias, as has Pakistan. India certainly has a right wing religious government. North Korea may not technically be a theocracy but it certainly is based on a cult of personality. Israel has an extreme right wing religious government whose members have called on a regular basis for the destruction of the Palestinian people.
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North Korea designated that Kim Il Sun, and his son Kim Jong Un are both gods.
 
psionl0 said:
I don't know if the nuclear facilities at Fordow were destroyed or not but if Trump says they were then they are probably unharmed.
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The Fog Of War has set in big time over how much damage was done.
it not easy to asses damage to an industrial target a lot of the time. During WOrld War the intial aerial photos made USSAF commanders beleive they had done serous damage in 1943 to Germany's industrail complex,but it turned out that alhtough the building were badly damages, the machinery was intact or repairable. This was particulry true with the attacks on the ball bearings factories.
 
dudalb said:
The Fog Of War has set in big time over how much damage was done.
it not easy to asses damage to an industrial target a lot of the time. During WOrld War the intial aerial photos made USSAF commanders beleive they had done serous damage in 1943 to Germany's industrail complex,but it turned out that alhtough the building were badly damages, the machinery was intact or repairable. This was particulry true with the attacks on the ball bearings factories.
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We have much better capabilities today. But with an underground facility like this, it was always going to be difficult.
 
I throw up when I see that photo of Trump in the Crisis Room with the freaking MAFA cap on. A freaking insult to the airmen risking their lives on these missions.
I now favor a constituional amendment forbidding anybody who has a TV show from becoming President.
 
And now the news of the attack on the Greek Orthodox Church in Damascus, killing 20. Suicide bomber ,probably ISIS.
Man, things just keep getting better in that part of the world.
 
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