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Trump Org. and CFO Indicted

Bob001

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New York State has indicted the Trump Organization and its CFO for extensive tax fraud.
Criminal charges were unsealed Thursday against the Trump Organization and its chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg, detailing an alleged tax evasion conspiracy spanning more than a decade, representing the most serious threat yet to the Trump family real estate enterprise long managed by former President Donald Trump.

The Trump Organization and its CFO Allen Weisselberg were charged with criminal tax fraud, conspiracy and falsifying business records. Weisselberg, the CFO who was walked to the courtroom in handcuffs, was also charged with grand larceny in connection with failing pay taxes on $1.7 million on fringe benefits from the company.
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...isselberg-indicted-charges-coming/7818461002/
 
And win-win turns into lose-lose on both sides of the federal taxes.

Pay employees in goods and services and the employer avoids paying payroll taxes while the employee avoids paying FICA and the income taxes.

And I'll bet they exaggerated the expenses when deducting them from the profit line.
 
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Trump's expected and typical response using many of his broken record terms:

"The political Witch Hunt by the Radical Left Democrats, with New York now taking over the assignment, continues. It is dividing our Country like never before!"

:dl:
 
I worked for a company that had CEO that went to jail for giving himself stuff. Why do they do that? Why don't the CEOs just pay themselves a higher salary? It's not like they are going to pay much tax on it.
 
this gives every lender the excuse to call in the debts of the Trump organization at once - the first to do so might even get some of their money back.
 
Well, this one’s pretty simple. They either paid the taxes or they didn’t.

More interesting though is the defense, which isn’t we did nothing wrong but everyone does it and it’s not fair to go after us.
 
dirtywick said:
Well, this one’s pretty simple. They either paid the taxes or they didn’t.

More interesting though is the defense, which isn’t we did nothing wrong but everyone does it and it’s not fair to go after us.
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So they are going to squeal on everyone?

not sure I have enough popcorn for that.
 
Well, it's possible. We'll find out how much loyalty empty posturing about a witch hunt commands from a guy who doesn't have the pardon power to back it up.
 
Doesn't matter if Disaster Don gets personally collared or not. If Trump Org gets convicted, the lenders will all call their markers and it will fold. Absolutely no love lost with them, and they will never loan to him again because he will scream at them all the way to the bottom. Also, declaring bankruptcy has been Donny's escape hatch since forever. Dear old Fred taught him that one.

The only potential deal breaker to this would be some "white knight" bailing Donny and Trump Org out. Or at least trying to. I imagine Pootie will turn his back on the small-handed dope, but the Middle East may yet have some spare pocket change to help out. Although I don't know what the NYC legal system or the Feds would think of "dirty foreign commie Muslim terrorist" money as bail for a serial bankrupt crook.
 
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Tero said:
I worked for a company that had CEO that went to jail for giving himself stuff. Why do they do that? Why don't the CEOs just pay themselves a higher salary? It's not like they are going to pay much tax on it.
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It’s not always easy to shield wages from taxes.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Doesn't matter if Disaster Don gets personally collared or not. If Trump Org gets convicted, the lenders will all call their markers and it will fold. Absolutely no love lost with them, and they will never loan to him again because he will scream at them all the way to the bottom. Also, declaring bankruptcy has been Donny's escape hatch since forever. Dear old Fred taught him that one.
The only potential deal breaker to this would be some "white knight" bailing Donny and Trump Org out. Or at least trying to. I imagine Pootie will turn his back on the small-handed dope, but the Middle East may yet have some spare pocket change to help out. Although I don't know what the NYC legal system or the Feds would think of "dirty foreign commie Muslim terrorist" money as bail for a serial bankrupt crook.
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He'll just start up a GoFundMe page. There are still enough suckers in the country to respond to his plea for a bailout.
 
I would hope that Dump's supporters might give a fleeting thought to the Law charging an ex Prez's business for tax fraud committed before, *during* and after his time in the White House. For some unbroken 15 years that is known of. A *President* cheating on taxes.

Yeah, we all know that to them Dump is practically a Saint. And that the whole world is wrong about everything, and everyone is out to get him for no reason but hate, if Dump says so. But at least one would hope the niggling little worm of doubt would begin to gnaw. That here's this rich business giant they saw as spiffed up and propped up by Mark Burnett, who risked criminal charges over what amounts to small potatoes in respect of his claimed wealth.

Maybe the avalanche of charges to come might work to dislodge their messiah from the mantle in their deluded minds.
 
eeyore1954 said:
It’s not always easy to shield wages from taxes.
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Yeah, but if the company really wanted to pay him more, they could just gross it up. Gross up the gross up even. I have worked for people like this before - worth millions and try to nickel and dime every expense they can. I really do not get it.
 
Lurch said:
I would hope that Dump's supporters might give a fleeting thought to the Law charging an ex Prez's business for tax fraud committed before, *during* and after his time in the White House. For some unbroken 15 years that is known of. A *President* cheating on taxes.

Yeah, we all know that to them Dump is practically a Saint. And that the whole world is wrong about everything, and everyone is out to get him for no reason but hate, if Dump says so. But at least one would hope the niggling little worm of doubt would begin to gnaw. That here's this rich business giant they saw as spiffed up and propped up by Mark Burnett, who risked criminal charges over what amounts to small potatoes in respect of his claimed wealth.

Maybe the avalanche of charges to come might work to dislodge their messiah from the mantle in their deluded minds.
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It's not that his supporters believe Trump is "innocent", it's that they don't trust the government and don't think they should have to pay taxes either. They will justify this as Trump fighting back against the big evil government that wants to take your guns, your freedoms, and all of your money.

They believed all of this before Trump ever came along.
 
Lurch said:
I would hope that Dump's supporters might give a fleeting thought to the Law charging an ex Prez's business for tax fraud committed before, *during* and after his time in the White House. For some unbroken 15 years that is known of. A *President* cheating on taxes.

Yeah, we all know that to them Dump is practically a Saint. And that the whole world is wrong about everything, and everyone is out to get him for no reason but hate, if Dump says so. But at least one would hope the niggling little worm of doubt would begin to gnaw. That here's this rich business giant they saw as spiffed up and propped up by Mark Burnett, who risked criminal charges over what amounts to small potatoes in respect of his claimed wealth.

Maybe the avalanche of charges to come might work to dislodge their messiah from the mantle in their deluded minds.
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I would love to see this, but I'm afraid I would be a nice shade of blue and a long time dead if I held my breath waiting.
 
dirtywick said:
Well, this one’s pretty simple. They either paid the taxes or they didn’t.

More interesting though is the defense, which isn’t we did nothing wrong but everyone does it and it’s not fair to go after us.
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They might be going to claim these were gifts from that oh so generous Dump.

But there are still problems. The gift giver is required to report said gifts and over the limit gifts are taxable.

For example there is a $15,000 annual exclusion in 2020 and 2021, and the $11.58 million lifetime exclusion.

Of course the organization will have the same issue claiming certain things like free apartments were not worth much. But the IRS isn't going to allow that and some of the 'gifts' were fixed rates like the CEO's grandkid's tuition.

Ivanka claiming to be a contractor and an employee at the same time is also a problem.
 
Doesn't the NY AG have Trumps personal taxes? I'm surprised that they were unable to find anything to charge Pres. Trump with.

According to the New York Times, who is no friend of Trump, the NY AG is going after Allen for taxes that were not paid for fringe benefits. Another New York Times article stated that it is uncommon enough to prosecute tax evasion on fringe benefits that tax experts were unable to volunteer any examples of this type of prosecution occurring.

When compared to the amount of effort, time, or money expelled to perpetually investigate any one individual or corporation; the amount of effort, time, and money being spent to investigate Trump, his family, and anybody associated with him can be easily labeled as excessive.

1. Are these charges a personal vendetta against a former president, for whom many found despicable, being done with the hope that it will limit Trump's prospects of running for president in the future?

2. Or has the lack of taxes paid on these fringe benefits by the Trump organization done real harm to citizens and can be viewed as a justified use of government funded prosecution?

3. Perhaps they hare better nderstood by a different narrative?
 
ServiceSoon said:
1. Are these charges a personal vendetta against a former president, for whom many found despicable, being done with the hope that it will limit Trump's prospects of running for president in the future?
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If Trump Org broke the law, then Trump Org broke the law. Whether they're going after Trump specifically for this or as revenge, I'm not sure. I'm not really sure that, as just mentioned, it's even related to Trump's actual taxes. This is all based off of the Trump Org and Allen. The fact these laws aren't prosecuted is the ******** part, imho.

ServiceSoon said:
2. Or has the lack of taxes paid on these fringe benefits by the Trump organization done real harm to citizens and can be viewed as a justified use of government funded prosecution?
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From the one article I saw it was claimed that just the taxes on the benefits was >USD$1.1mm. That's about a $100k a year. I'd think that would do some good for the city, state, and nation.

ServiceSoon said:
3. Perhaps they are better understood by a different narrative?
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They broke the law. The fact that Trump's boasting about how he pays little in taxes, the times he's got caught breaking campaign finance laws, and his pompous boasting about how awesome he is brought him unwanted attention. The narrative is the squeaky wheel gets the grease, that's not always a good thing.
 
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ServiceSoon said:
Doesn't the NY AG have Trumps personal taxes? I'm surprised that they were unable to find anything to charge Pres. Trump with.

According to the New York Times, who is no friend of Trump, the NY AG is going after Allen for taxes that were not paid for fringe benefits. Another New York Times article stated that it is uncommon enough to prosecute tax evasion on fringe benefits that tax experts were unable to volunteer any examples of this type of prosecution occurring.

When compared to the amount of effort, time, or money expelled to perpetually investigate any one individual or corporation; the amount of effort, time, and money being spent to investigate Trump, his family, and anybody associated with him can be easily labeled as excessive.

1. Are these charges a personal vendetta against a former president, for whom many found despicable, being done with the hope that it will limit Trump's prospects of running for president in the future?

2. Or has the lack of taxes paid on these fringe benefits by the Trump organization done real harm to citizens and can be viewed as a justified use of government funded prosecution?

3. Perhaps they hare better nderstood by a different narrative?
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Different narrative: maybe there haven't been other prosecutions because no one has been as blatant as the Dump organization. And remember, had Dump not made such a big deal hiding his tax returns no one would have looked so closely at them.

Continuing different narrative: There is no need to rush in on Dump. Yes they have his tax returns, and he signed the checks like the one paying for the 30K tuition.

But one would want to build as strong a case as one could before indicting him. There are plenty more fish here to fry first, most importantly Dump's kids.

Dump as usual is trying to say they have no evidence on him or they would have indicted him. He has to keep that 'big lie' up as long as the grifting is still good. And he probably believes it himself like he believed the pandemic would just go away.
 
What's clear now is that the IRS does **** all to audit the taxes of the President, as is its job.
Democrats were 100% right in demanding to see what the IRS was doing with Trump's tax returns (pretend they are not there).
Heads need to roll.
 
ServiceSoon said:
Doesn't the NY AG have Trumps personal taxes? I'm surprised that they were unable to find anything to charge Pres. Trump with.

According to the New York Times, who is no friend of Trump, the NY AG is going after Allen for taxes that were not paid for fringe benefits. Another New York Times article stated that it is uncommon enough to prosecute tax evasion on fringe benefits that tax experts were unable to volunteer any examples of this type of prosecution occurring.

When compared to the amount of effort, time, or money expelled to perpetually investigate any one individual or corporation; the amount of effort, time, and money being spent to investigate Trump, his family, and anybody associated with him can be easily labeled as excessive.

1. Are these charges a personal vendetta against a former president, for whom many found despicable, being done with the hope that it will limit Trump's prospects of running for president in the future?

2. Or has the lack of taxes paid on these fringe benefits by the Trump organization done real harm to citizens and can be viewed as a justified use of government funded prosecution?

3. Perhaps they hare better nderstood by a different narrative?
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They are taking away all the brat's toys BEFORE they put the brat in the naughty corner.
 
timhau said:
Will they? If they were regular Western banks they would, but they haven't been doing business with Donny for a while.
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Dump is losing sway however. Can he still launder money for the Russian oligarchs? Probably not, he's under too much scrutiny. Does he have a chance of winning in 2024? Doubt it. Do his assets cover his debts? If they did the Western banks probably wouldn't have cut him loose.

It might be a free-for-all if more than one entity holds outstanding debt and they want to get anything out before the rush.
 
ServiceSoon said:
Doesn't the NY AG have Trumps personal taxes? I'm surprised that they were unable to find anything to charge Pres. Trump with.

According to the New York Times, who is no friend of Trump, the NY AG is going after Allen for taxes that were not paid for fringe benefits. Another New York Times article stated that it is uncommon enough to prosecute tax evasion on fringe benefits that tax experts were unable to volunteer any examples of this type of prosecution occurring.

When compared to the amount of effort, time, or money expelled to perpetually investigate any one individual or corporation; the amount of effort, time, and money being spent to investigate Trump, his family, and anybody associated with him can be easily labeled as excessive.

1. Are these charges a personal vendetta against a former president, for whom many found despicable, being done with the hope that it will limit Trump's prospects of running for president in the future?

2. Or has the lack of taxes paid on these fringe benefits by the Trump organization done real harm to citizens and can be viewed as a justified use of government funded prosecution?

3. Perhaps they hare better nderstood by a different narrative?
Click to expand...


"Narratives." Uh-huh. All a propaganda war, you might say, unless...gee, there is a pesky paper trail and a set of legally-binding declarations and assertions within. Sometimes, facts speak for themselves, and "understanding" is a question of listening to them.

Reality, please take the stand.
 
I don’t find the argument that it’s not fair to prosecute this guy for defrauding the government of over a million dollars because most of the time they don’t care when people do this both improbable and unconvincing. Avoiding paying over a million dollars whether it’s by fringe benefits or some other means is incredibly greedy. The defense that this is standard industry behavior is something everyone should be skeptical of.
 
dirtywick said:
I don’t find the argument that it’s not fair to prosecute this guy for defrauding the government of over a million dollars because most of the time they don’t care when people do this both improbable and unconvincing. Avoiding paying over a million dollars whether it’s by fringe benefits or some other means is incredibly greedy. The defense that this is standard industry behavior is something everyone should be skeptical of.
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It might be standard practice to provide perks. But everybody, certainly the Chief Financial Officer, knows that they are taxable income. They're not gifts. That's the issue. And we might find out down the road that the Trump Org. was deducting those outlays as business expenses, which would be a different fraud.
 
dirtywick said:
Avoiding paying over a million dollars whether it’s by fringe benefits or some other means is incredibly greedy.
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I think his tax avoidance (amount due but unpaid) was more along the lines of hundreds of thousands.
 
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