Trump is a plant to start a civil war

[HoverBoarder]

I have had two separate people express to me their belief that Trump is a plant designed to start a civil war in the country. I didn't get to ask who this secret group actually is, in fact I think my exact response was "uh... OK."

However, it is surprising to me that two separate people expressed this conspiracy theory view to me. One was a Democrat, and one was a Republican, but they both shared the view that it was "suspicious" how incredibly terrible he is at his job. With all of the cascading mistakes he has made, they were dubious that he could have purposefully be causing so much damage to the country at home and abroad unless he was trying to purposefully fail at the job, or someone put him in his position knowing how catastrophic he would be for the US.

First of all, I don't think that Trump is even close to smart enough to pull off such an intricate ruse. Trump has never shown a level of serious mental competency his entire life, and he would have to have hid a savant level of intelligence from everyone he has ever known, including his family, while playing the role of clueless buffoon for many, many decades. Therefore, Trump would have to be unaware of his role as a incompetent saboteur in chief for this plan to work. However, I also don't see what benefit any group in the US would get from a civil war.

Which really just leaves Putin. Sabotaging the US in order to gain increased worldwide economic and geopolitical leverage would definitely be in line with the goals of the former KGB agent. But I don't think Putin thought that far ahead when he sabotaged the US election in order to get Trump elected. Trump owes an immeasurable debt to Putin, and it is clear from his intense deference to the goals and will of Putin that he is at least partially under Putin's control.

However even though I think Putin's main goal was a more resigned and non confrontational US, Trump is not an easily controlled puppet, and I doubt even Putin realized how out of touch his is with reality. He is so devoid of basic logic and reasoning that Putin could never really fully rely on Trump to do anything except to do damage to America. It is a risky move since it also comes with the risk of Trump nuking the world.

Has anyone else heard the "Trump plant" conspiracy and/or the "Trump put in place to start a civil war" conspiracy? Also relevant to the discussion is whether Putin helped put Trump in power because of his positive overtures to Russia, or if he really knew how bad the worst President in history would be.

 

[threadworm]

More a vegetable.

 

[Dabop]

From a foreign viewpoint- Trump is only marginally worse than what Bush was- they both dragged the USA down into the mud. Obama had his faults, but IMHO was far superior than either- and many of those faults could actually be laid at the feet of the Republicans stonewalling him at every opportunity.

I just hope he doesnt get another major conflict started because our libs are only too willing to jump in with him- just like last time
:-(

 

[NoahFence]

Interesting that liberals aren't crying about FEMA camps even though the military is now all over southeast Texas.

Is that just a republican thing when they were just convinced sharia law was coming?

 

[theprestige]

Progressives have their own boogeymen. As far as I can tell, most of you think the entire country is one big concentration camp. And you're conflicted over whether or not it's a good thing.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.

 

[Craig4]

What offends me about this is that it lets the American People who allowed Trump to happen off the hook. There's no planting involved. People either voted for him or they stayed home in key states, causing the crisis we're in.

 

[Horatius]

What offends me about this is that it lets the American People who allowed Trump to happen off the hook. There's no planting involved. People either voted for him or they stayed home in key states, causing the crisis we're in.

"Letting people off the hook" is pretty much the point of most CTs. It's the ultimate excuse for either not doing anything at all, doing something stupid or lazy, or not facing the consequences for what you did.

"Why vote/run for office? THEY rig all the elections anyways!"

"Sure I voted for a racist idiot, but it's what we had to do to break THEIR stranglehold on democracy!"

"It's not my fault the racist idiot is screwing up as President! THEY won't let him do his job!"

Other CTs are the same.

"Don't blame me for buying a house in a flood plain, THEY are the ones who created/enhanced/steered the hurricane to hit us!"

"Don't blame me for being unemployed, THEY are the ones who gave all our jobs to illegal immigrants in China!"

"Don't blame me for being a drug addict, THEY are the ones who smuggle drugs into the country!"

 

[Degeneve]

That Trump could be increase the level of political violence in the United States and hence be, at least partly, the reason of a new civil war is maybe not to be totally excluded.

This would however not happen because he is a plant of anyone but only because he is an idiot

 

[Trakar]

What offends me about this is that it lets the American People who allowed Trump to happen off the hook. There's no planting involved. People either voted for him or they stayed home in key states, causing the crisis we're in.

Nominating two of the worst candidates for president by each of the major parties, definitely have an outsize role in outcome as well.

 

[applecorped]

A eucalyptus?

 

[Saggy]

Let's say I am a member of the oligarchy that is bent on reducing the US to 3rd world status ... and to reducing the US govt. to an easily controlled shambles .....what better idea than to elect a fool and a clown as president.

I believe this to an extent. It's difficult to explain T's election otherwise.

 

[Axxman300]

Let's say I am a member of the oligarchy that is bent on reducing the US to 3rd world status ... and to reducing the US govt. to an easily controlled shambles .....what better idea than to elect a fool and a clown as president.

I believe this to an extent. It's difficult to explain T's election otherwise.

Yeah...because it had nothing to do with the 50% of Americans who couldn't be bothered to vote.

Has nothing to do with the fact that the DNC went with a polarizing candidate that 8 years before got knocked out of the race by an unknown from Chigaco because people were looking to vote for anyone but Clinton.

Has nothing to do with the LULZ crowd registering as GOP in the early primaries to vote for Trump to help knock out serious candidates, and get Trump on the ticket with the logic being that there was no way Trump could win.

Nope, some oligarchy is all behind it.

Here's the problem: Every day Americans get up and go to work with other Americans, and everyone gets along. That's just the way it is.

What have we seen with the flooding in Texas?

We've seen people of every color, race, religion, and political party reaching out to help their neighbors no matter how different. This is the real America, we see this same face time and again.

Trump can't cause a revolution because no one believes him - or IN him.

 

[Pope130]

I have had two separate people express to me their belief that Trump is a plant designed to start a civil war in the country. I didn't get to ask who this secret group actually is, in fact I think my exact response was "uh... OK."

Did either of these people say what the sides in this civil war will be? Is it another sectional fight, class warfare, race war, partisan?

 

[Trebuchet]

"Trump is a plant..."

Can we just forget to water him?

 

[Saggy]

Has nothing to do with the fact that the DNC went with a polarizing candidate that 8 years before got knocked out of the race by an unknown from Chigaco because people were looking to vote for anyone but Clinton.

That shows the oligarchy's hand. They would have been perfectly happy with Hillary. It was a win-win for them, as it always is.

 

[Axxman300]

There is no "Them".

The DNC under Wasserman-Schultz, and John Podesta were/are incompetent, as the leaked e-mails showed. What the leaked e-mails didn't show was some all-controlling oligarchy, and we have all of them.

The entire issue of the leaked e-mails, and Wikileaks in general is that they undermine almost all conspiracy theories due to the lack of evidence they reveal. CTists need an invisible organization to justify their bigotry instead of facing their personal failures.

 

[Craig4]

There is no "Them".

That's what people like Saggy will never get. They're worried about the wrong thing. They've made up a boogeyman to explain their failures without realizing that there is no boogeyman. No one is in charge and that is what should scare people.

 

[Saggy]

There is no "Them".

The DNC under Wasserman-Schultz, and John Podesta were/are incompetent, as the leaked e-mails showed. What the leaked e-mails didn't show was some all-controlling oligarchy, and we have all of them.

The entire issue of the leaked e-mails, and Wikileaks in general is that they undermine almost all conspiracy theories due to the lack of evidence they reveal. CTists need an invisible organization to justify their bigotry instead of facing their personal failures.

If there is no them, then who in the hell is this ....

 

[Craig4]

If there is no them, then who in the hell is this ....

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/b1a29V6.jpg[/qimg]

That's him, different from them.

 

[Trakar]

That shows the oligarchy's hand. They would have been perfectly happy with Hillary. It was a win-win for them, as it always is.

The burgeoning American oligarchy isn't Clintonian nor Trumpian, these two "faces" are mere poseur wannabes exhibiting symptoms of the problem not actual examples of a top-down oligarchical hierarchy. The actual oligarchy (as it currently develops) isn't so much an organized conspiracy, merely the natural outcome of a mutually shared, but critically flawed, set of economic, social and political philosophies and principles.

 

[Horatius]

That shows the oligarchy's hand. They would have been perfectly happy with Hillary. It was a win-win for them, as it always is.

And this is why the CT mindset is of no practical value, because no matter what the outcome is, they claim it as proof of their CT. There's literally no predictive value in believing the CT.

 

[Saggy]

And this is why the CT mindset is of no practical value, because no matter what the outcome is, they claim it as proof of their CT. There's literally no predictive value in believing the CT.

CT's can't explain what didn't happen, and you interpret that as having no predictive ability. Just typical idiocy from the non-CT's.

Here is something every CT could have predicted .....

Every CT predicted that Trump would reverse himself on every ME issue. E.g. the war in Afghanistan.

 

[Trakar]

CT's can't explain what didn't happen, and you interpret that as having no predictive ability. Just typical idiocy from the non-CT's.

Here is something every CT could have predicted .....

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/0mTansJ.jpg[/qimg]

Every CT predicted that Trump would reverse himself on every ME issue. E.g. the war in Afghanistan.

(looks like he needs some chins straps on that kippa...)

 

[Axxman300]

CT's can't explain what didn't happen, and you interpret that as having no predictive ability. Just typical idiocy from the non-CT's.

Here is something every CT could have predicted .....


Every CT predicted that Trump would reverse himself on every ME issue. E.g. the war in Afghanistan.

Anyone with a high school education, and a modest collection of hardbacked books could have also predicted these things because the real world is so much more complicated than simpletons can grasp...

...and Trump is a simpleton. He nothing more than a glorified version of the loud-mouth drunk at the end of every bar in the western world who's got it all figured out. Once he gets into office he's hit in the face with the real world, and it's a world the US is fully engaged in, and there is nothing he as POTUS can do about it without Congress having his back. It is literally the same thing as putting the average armchair quarterback into the Superbowl at half-time - watching TV ain't the same as doing it in person.

Sorry to break the news, but the US isn't heading for a Civil War any time soon.

 

[Hans]

Anyone with a high school education, and a modest collection of hardbacked books could have also predicted these things because the real world is so much more complicated than simpletons can grasp...

...and Trump is a simpleton. He nothing more than a glorified version of the loud-mouth drunk at the end of every bar in the western world who's got it all figured out. Once he gets into office he's hit in the face with the real world, and it's a world the US is fully engaged in, and there is nothing he as POTUS can do about it without Congress having his back. It is literally the same thing as putting the average armchair quarterback into the Superbowl at half-time - watching TV ain't the same as doing it in person.

Sorry to break the news, but the US isn't heading for a Civil War any time soon.

Perhaps it might be productive to ask Saggy our local expert on what he believes is a conspiracy who run the planet.

Sag could you please tell us what will happen in the next.....say year? Five years?

 

[Craig4]

CT's can't explain what didn't happen, and you interpret that as having no predictive ability. Just typical idiocy from the non-CT's.

Here is something every CT could have predicted .....

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/0mTansJ.jpg[/qimg]

Every CT predicted that Trump would reverse himself on every ME issue. E.g. the war in Afghanistan.

Yet again Saggy fails to understand the mundane. Of course The Hair was going to reverse himself on his promises. His promises ignored the realpolitic of the region. Saggy and his type see a CT where the rational merely see the correctly mundane.

 

[Horatius]

That shows the oligarchy's hand. They would have been perfectly happy with Hillary. It was a win-win for them, as it always is.

CT's can't explain what didn't happen, and you interpret that as having no predictive ability. Just typical idiocy from the non-CT's.

And here's typical idiocy from the Pro-CT crowd. You can't see how you've just contradicted yourself. "CT's can't explain what didn't happen", but "They would have been perfectly happy with Hillary. It was a win-win for them..."

 

[HoverBoarder]

Did either of these people say what the sides in this civil war will be? Is it another sectional fight, class warfare, race war, partisan?

No, they didn't specifically say which side they would be on, although I got the impression that they felt that they wouldn't be doing the fighting. More of a fight between powerful elites type thing is what I would assume. Especially since the reasons for people actually starting a civil war would likely not be the reasons that whoever the hidden people who set up the ruse would be most interested in having a civil war. More of a pretext for other goals.

The things that bothers me about that argument is:
(1) The reality that no one in this country would really benefit from a civil war.

(2) The powerful elites are already in control. Our political structure is set up in a way that is so expensive that politicians have to spend a significant amount of their time fundraising for money from the elites and lobbyists (some like Al Gore have said most of their working time). Much of the legislation we get is either heavily influenced or fully written by lobbyists. It is also written in a way that is prohibitive for the general public to read, and it is doubtful that the politicians themselves have enough time to read a majority of the legislation that the lobbyists have written for them.

Which basically boils down to why would an elite class fight to control the country when they have already bought it.

(3) If there ever was any reason to fight for control of the country, it would be a forthcoming lack of food and goods to meet the global demand because of a rapidly growing global overpopulation. As well as major decreases in viable seafood stock due to heavy pollution, ocean acidification, and climate change heat increases causing water oxygen reduction and desertification.

I still would think this fight would be premature though.

 

[HoverBoarder]

From a foreign viewpoint- Trump is only marginally worse than what Bush was- they both dragged the USA down into the mud. Obama had his faults, but IMHO was far superior than either- and many of those faults could actually be laid at the feet of the Republicans stonewalling him at every opportunity.

I just hope he doesnt get another major conflict started because our libs are only too willing to jump in with him- just like last time
:-(

One could only hope that he doesn't start a nuclear war. Internationally he has significantly reduced the power and influence of the US, and domestically he has been an absolute catastrophe. For those who have tired of the US overbearing nature, this may seem like a good thing to have a diminished and damaged US. Only as long as he doesn't destroy the world in the process.

For those outside the US, they will just have to hope that the damage that Trump causes is mostly contained in the US, and the best hope that US citizens have is that the terrible damage from the worst president in history can at least be partially be fixed after a competent replacement comes in after the next election.

 

[HoverBoarder]

Let's say I am a member of the oligarchy that is bent on reducing the US to 3rd world status ... and to reducing the US govt. to an easily controlled shambles .....what better idea than to elect a fool and a clown as president.

I believe this to an extent. It's difficult to explain T's election otherwise.

The interesting thing about Trump being personally in on a ruse is all of the backstory that he would had to create in order for that to happen.

All of the dozens of women that he sexually assaulted were justified because he had to build up a creep image.

All of the workers that he stiffed and families that he ruined were justified because he had to build an image as a repugnant human being.

All of the African Americans and Latino people that he was horribly racist to were justified because he had to establish himself as a credible right wing bigot.

All of his former wives and people that he screwed over would all have to be part of the plan to build an image as one of the most reprehensible people to run for US office.

It would be a LOT of work just to convince people that he is a truly terrible person. More likely is that he is just actually a terrible person in reality, and a lot of idiotic shortsighted people made the mistake of not taking the election seriously and put him in office.

 

[McHrozni]

I have had two separate people express to me their belief that Trump is a plant designed to start a civil war in the country. I didn't get to ask who this secret group actually is, in fact I think my exact response was "uh... OK."

Trump is not a part of a nefarious plan to get USA into a civil war. He may be a part of a nefarious plot to sieze power in the US for an indefinite period of time through less than democratic means, the jury is out on that one, but getting the US into a civil war is a plot too complex and too prone to failure to be realistic.

That does not mean his antics couldn't lead to a civil war in the future, though not quickly and not easily, and it doesn't mean whomever is making the plans (if anyone is doing so) would particularily dislike the idea of a second Civil war, but it's not the primary goal of his administration.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

Trump can't cause a revolution because no one believes him - or IN him.

About one in four americans believe him and IN him. About two in five think he's going a swell job. The number may have grown slightly due to his proper response to Hurricane Harvey.

Barring a major screw-up, he won't be impeached. This was the first chance he had for a major screw-up and he passed the test. He is a danger.

McHrozni

 

[Civet]

I haven't been particularly sympathetic to CT stuff for a long time, but I'd expect a plant to seem a lot more like a normal politician. Certainly he wouldn't have any grotesque leak about grabbing vaginas. Also, a plant would probably release his tax returns. More of a Mitt Romney sort or maybe a John Kerry.

 

[HoverBoarder]

I haven't been particularly sympathetic to CT stuff for a long time, but I'd expect a plant to seem a lot more like a normal politician. Certainly he wouldn't have any grotesque leak about grabbing vaginas. Also, a plant would probably release his tax returns. More of a Mitt Romney sort or maybe a John Kerry.

A lot would depend on what the plant was going to be used for. If for example Russia wanted to obtsin National secrets, and have someone who would push for favorable policies towards them, than they would have likely chosen a careful and competent candidate. If they wanted to cause the most internal damage, they would have chosen someone borderline insane and bombastic like Trump.

It is very possible that Russia, or anyone else who potentially had a hand in fixing the election had no grasp on just how out of control Trump was, and meant to have inserted in someone more mentally same. Or they could have chosen someone who was both favorable to Russia, and was extremely damaging for the US as well.

So far Trump has only succeeded in doing permanent damage to th US, and the diminishment of US relations and power across the world.

Either way, Trump was a terrible choice for all parties involved.