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Split Thread Trump Document indictment (as opposed to other indictments)

Totally! It just goes to show you how depraved this witch hunt is, that Democrats would stoop lower than ever before in history to get rid of their opposition!

/s of course.
 
newyorkguy said:
I agree. The thing with donald trump is, he does things in a way no one else would do. But there are good reasons why no one else would. trump's schemes -- starting with the football league, the airline, the casinos and on to the 'university' -- always wind up falling apart. I'm sure his political career will too, I'm just not certain if he's there yet.
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The problem is that when his political career collapses he might drag down the country with him (to a much greater extent than he has already dragged it down).

But you have to admit, look where he's taken us. A candidate for president whose main motivation is, if he gets to the White House he can quash all the criminal investigations targeting him. Pundits are encouraged that polls have show upwards of 40% of the members of his own party say they won't vote for him if he's convicted of a crime prior to Election Day. That's the standard for an American president? Does he have a criminal record?
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1) At this point, it seems extremely unlikely that any of the trials except for the Stormy Daniels trial will take place before the election, and I expect that his supporters will wave off a conviction in that trial as being no big a deal, given that it is how he paid off Stormy Daniels rather than just that he paid her off.
2) Talk is cheap. I can't see anyone who hasn't already been turned off by the New York business fraud, the Carroll case, the Trump University fraud, the Trump Foundation fraud, and the large amount of publicized evidence for the other 3 upcoming trials being likely to be turned off by a conviction in any trial.
 
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gnome said:
Totally! It just goes to show you how depraved this witch hunt is, that Democrats would stoop lower than ever before in history to get rid of their opposition!

/s of course.
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You mean stoop so low as in enforcing the law?

How dare they!!
 
And, Ivanka's company is worth a billion? Is that a Trump style billion, or a real-world one?

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
And, Ivanka's company is worth a billion? Is that a Trump style billion, or a real-world one?

Hans
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She says it is, and Trump says it is because he used his position as president to get it for her. So it is, as far as they are concerned. Reality, as you rightly point out, is probably very significantly different.
 
Sounds like playing chess. Have to make the moves in the right order. It's time to appeal. The appeal cannot delay the case any more than judge Cannon can. Throw it into the next higher court.
CNN
In perhaps prosecutors’ strongest rebuke yet to how Judge Aileen Cannon has handled the classified documents case against former President Donald Trump, special counsel Jack Smith said in court filings late Tuesday evening that the judge had ordered briefings based on a “fundamentally flawed” understanding of the case that has “no basis in law or fact.”
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William Parcher said:
Special counsel blasts judge’s jury instruction request in Trump documents case.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/02/politics/special-counsel-mar-a-lago-jury-instructions
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From your link:

(Cannon asked for two versions of jury instructions to be prepared)

The second version Cannon asked for assumes that as president, Trump had complete authority to take records he wanted from the White House, which would make it nearly impossible for prosecutors to secure a conviction. If she were to institute this sort of instruction, Smith’s team said, “the Government must be provided with an opportunity to seek prompt appellate review.”

“Both scenarios rest on an unstated and fundamentally flawed legal premise — namely, that the Presidential Records Act and in particular its distinction between ‘personal’ and ‘Presidential’ records, determines whether a former President is ‘authorized,’ under the Espionage Act, to possess highly classified documents and store them in an unsecure facility,” the special counsel’s team wrote. If allowed to be presented to a jury, prosecutors said, “that premise would distort the trial.”
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Cannon is an idiot. She needs to be replaced.
 
slyjoe said:
Or, she is biased and too idiotic to hide it well.
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"Biased" may not be the best word there. Corrupt, treacherous, unqualified, sycophantic, and a political hack are all options that might be notably better. Bias is broad, vague, and not inherently objectionable, after all. Judges being biased toward truth and justice would be a good thing.
 
Aridas said:
"Biased" may not be the best word there. Corrupt, treacherous, unqualified, sycophantic, and a political hack are all options that might be notably better. Bias is broad, vague, and not inherently objectionable, after all. Judges being biased toward truth and justice would be a good thing.
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I have to agree.
 
William Parcher said:
How legal fights and stalling by judge could push Trump documents trial after election.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/03/politics/legal-fights-judge-trump-documents-trial
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I don't know if Smith will let it go that long with Cannon in place. I think he can ask an appelate court for a change in judge.

Cannon is stuck right now with the latest motion. As a Trumper, she will not agree with Smith - she will double down. At the last minute, which is determined by her from what I can tell.

This will achieve the goal set from the start - delay until after the election.
 
Argument I'm hearing (per news media and podcasts) is Smith has put Cannon on notice: decide on the application of the POTUS Records Act now and if you don't I'll file:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandamus
A writ of mandamus (lit.''we command'') is a judicial remedy in the English and American common law system consisting of a court order that commands a government official or entity to perform an act it is legally required to perform as part of its official duties, or to refrain from performing an act the law forbids it from doing. Writs of mandamus are usually used in situations where a government official has failed to act as legally required or has taken a legally prohibited action.
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... forcing the decision or appealing to the 11th circuit. He's not going to let her dismiss the case after jury selection when it cannot be appealed or tried again. I can't imagine Smith will not out maneuver Cannon. Though I do wish he would have moved to have her recused months ago.
 
Stacyhs said:
From your link:

(Cannon asked for two versions of jury instructions to be prepared)



Cannon is an idiot. She needs to be replaced.
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She needs to be arrested for the same offences that T****y is being tried for in her court. She is clearly and obviously acting in joint enterprise with him to commit the crimes he's been charged with.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Argument I'm hearing (per news media and podcasts) is Smith has put Cannon on notice: decide on the application of the POTUS Records Act now and if you don't I'll file a Writ of Mandamus ... forcing the decision or appealing to the 11th circuit. He's not going to let her dismiss the case after jury selection when it cannot be appealed or tried again. I can't imagine Smith will not out maneuver Cannon. Though I do wish he would have moved to have her recused months ago.
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I am hoping that if she does rapidly decide her stupid interpretation is valid, potentially scuppering the case altogether, Smith will immediately ask a higher court (or whatever authority there is) to have her replaced on the grounds of sheer incompetence.
 
Trump said

Donald J. Trump

@realDonald Trump

Deranged "Special" Counsel Jack Smith, who has a long record of failure as a prosecutor, including a unanimous decision against him in the U.S. Supreme Court, should be sanctioned or censured for the way he is attacking a highly respected Judge, Aileen Cannon, who is presiding over his FAKE Documents Hoax case in Florida. He is a lowlife who is nasty, rude, and condescending, and obviously trying to "play the ref." He shouldn't even be allowed to participate in this sham case, where I, unlike Crooked Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and all the rest, come under the Presidential Records Act. I DID NOTHING WRONG, BUT BIDEN DID, AND THEY LET HIM OFF SCOT-FREE. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN, JACK? A TWO TIERED SYSTEM OF JUSTICE. ELECTION INTERFERENCE!
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Andy_Ross said:
Trump said...[oft-repeated lunacy snipped]
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You give the Mango Moron far too much credit attributing that to him.

Again, just like his "most popular book ever" that was ghost-written and never paid for, Trump did not write that post. It is a grammatically-corrected & punctuated version of a Trump-like rant, posted on his behalf. It's a gee-up, a fabrication, an attempt to manufacture outrage among the anti-Trump public, and give Donny something to whine about at rallies.
 
Norman Alexander said:
If they did that, they will almost inevitably have edited the text too (Trump swears and babbles constantly IRL). So it is "an original Trump post"...apart from the grammar, spelling, punctuation and words.
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Assumption not supported by evidence. But I'm not going to go round and round with you on this.
 
William Parcher said:
Judge Cannon rejects a bid by Trump to dismiss criminal charges in classified documents case.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/trump-judge-aileen-cannon-classified-documents-jack-smith
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Isn't that old news? She rejected the dismissal while strongly hinting (aka outright telling) Trump to resubmit the bid after the jury is sworn in because if she dismisses the charges then they can't be appealed and he can't be retried.
In the classified documents case, which is proceeding in south Florida, US District Judge Aileen Cannon on Thursday declined Trump’s request that she dismiss the case based on his arguments that he had the authority to take classified or sensitive documents with him after he left the White House.

Cannon’s short order, however, kept open the possibility that Trump could still use the argument to defend himself at trial or could bring it up in other pre-trial proceedings.
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It's muddled. The above paragraph refers to dismissal based on the claim The Presidential Records case gave him the right to take and keep said documents but it does not do that.

Seems like the current issue is claiming the trial cannot go forward until the SCOTUS rules on his absolute immunity as POTUS claim.
 
Stacyhs said:
Assumption not supported by evidence. But I'm not going to go round and round with you on this.
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Without actually watching Trumpy sitting on the can at 4:00am typing it into his phone (ugh!), there is not absolute evidence, no. But based on his known output (of drivel) and his ability to read and write (sub-kindergarten dementia), I think I could make a good case.

The reason I continue to mention this is because of the reactions to said Trothe Sential posts - who and how. It is remarkably obvious that they are being penned precisely to stir up reactions in certain quarters - in short, shit-stirring for publicity, aka trolling. In order for such troll posts to be effective, they need to be readable and (semi-)logical. Which means a much more clever author than the Orange Anus.

It also suggests a plan and a pattern to the postings of deliberate malevolence. Again, planning is not Donny's forte. He's much more crocodilian and reactive than that. So it's people in his team, not Donny, orchestrating this, probably people like Miller and Bannon. And they are a number of orders of magnitude smarter than the great Mango Sockpuppet. So they are the ones who we REALLY need to be keeping an eye on.

However, if you are only concerned if he did this himself with his own pudgy fingers or not, fine. I won't mention it again.
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
A mistrial would not benefit Trump
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The Don said:
If it buys him time it will.
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I agree. A mistrial could very well benefit Trump. Not only could it buy him time, it could buy him the win in many ways.

Don't kid yourself, time for an old man is a lot. To begin with the penalties in the documents case could easily incarcerate Trump for the rest of his life. A year delay is a year not in prison.

Also, the judge could dismiss the charges with prejudice.
 
I think at this point Judge Cannon's ruling that prosecution witness names may be redacted in documents released publicly does not carry the risk the trump defense may be able to get a mistrial. First, there is no trial, not yet. No date has been selected, no jurors chosen. Second, apparently trump's lawyers already know the names, this action is to prevent them from releasing the names publicly. The New York Times reported:
The special counsel, Jack Smith, had expressed a deep concern over witness safety, an issue that has touched on several of Mr. Trump’s criminal cases. Among the people prosecutors were seeking to protect were “career civil servants and former close advisers” to Mr. Trump, including one who had told them that he was so concerned about potential threats from “Trump world” that he refused to permit investigators to record an interview with him...The prosecutors told Judge Cannon they could not fathom why the lawyers needed to identify any of the witnesses as part of their request for more information. Mr. Trump’s legal team has argued that it has a free speech right to name the witnesses, but Mr. Smith’s deputies have scoffed at that contention.

Judges in two of the former president’s other cases — one in Washington and another in Manhattan that is set to go to trial next week — have imposed gag orders on him specifically to protect witnesses from his attacks. New York Times news link
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It seems so obvious that what trump wants is to be able to verbally trash various witnesses by name in an attempt to intimidate them. The idea being, if you oppose trump you pay a price. Seems obvious to everyone except Judge Aileen Cannon. :(
 
newyorkguy said:
It seems so obvious that what trump wants is to be able to verbally trash various witnesses by name in an attempt to intimidate them. The idea being, if you oppose trump you pay a price. Seems obvious to everyone except Judge Aileen Cannon. :(
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Oh, it's VERY obvious to her. She is clearly trying to find a way to allow it that doesn't cost her job or make her liable to be taken off the case. She has a client to protect! ;) I would hardly be surprised if she has been "influenced" already by some anonymous agents herself.
 
Both U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan in Washington and New York State Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan have shown great concern for the safety and well being of trial participants, That they not be subjected to what Judge Chutkan called " a pretrial smear campaign." Yet Judge Aileen Cannon has shown absolutely no concern at all. Cannon addresses the issue but without showing any concern for the witnesses. And despite trump's constant belittling and name calling of the other judges, he has never seemed to utter one negative word about Aileen Cannon. As a former supervisor of mine used to say: "What's wrong with this picture?"

It is very puzzling as well as very troubling.
 
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