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Split Thread Trump Document indictment (as opposed to other indictments)

Resume said:
Espionage.

Just another day.
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This is now getting silly, it was to a fellow billionaire, if you can't trust a billionaire who can you trust? Any way since when do billionaires have to follow the same rules as the rest of us?
 
newyorkguy said:
This explains why these people accept without reservation trump's blathering. trump characterizes his various indictments as persecution. All the prosecutors handling his cases are corrupt, retarded, moronic. They are furthering a secret Biden Administration agenda. All of the judges in his various cases are corrupt, evil, they personally despise donald trump and are working to bring about his demise. And not some of them, all of them. I have always found it difficult to understand that people, who seem so cynical, can accept all this nonsense from trump without ever asking any questions. Now I understand it.

trump is aggressive and belligerent. For the MAGA crowd, that's all that counts. That appears to be very accurate. :(
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Yeah, but what if it was confirmed that Donnie Depends belittled those who made the ultimate sacrifice for out nation by calling them suckers and losers? Would these people still support . . . . Never mind.

Okay, okay, okay, surely they'd balk if it were determined he gave a foreign national nuclear secrets, surely. . . Never mind.
 
Darat said:
This is now getting silly, it was to a fellow billionaire, if you can't trust a billionaire who can you trust? Any way since when do billionaires have to follow the same rules as the rest of us?
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After being attacked for calling Idiots Idiots I don't trust anyone any more!
 
Resume said:
Yeah, but what if it was confirmed that Donnie Depends belittled those who made the ultimate sacrifice for out nation by calling them suckers and losers? Would these people still support . . . . Never mind.

Okay, okay, okay, surely they'd balk if it were determined he gave a foreign national nuclear secrets, surely. . . Never mind.
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Donnie could stand in the middle of 5th Ave. and give a billionaire top secret nuclear information and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
 
Come on skeptics, since when do we go by the headlines.

Obviously Orange Bigmouth passed secrets out like candy before during and after he was POTUS. Details matter when we're talking about lock him up, not that reasons to lock him up aren't already overflowing. But let's just look at the latest potential charge.

CBS News; Trump discussed nuclear submarines with Australian billionaire
"I will often state that we make the best Submarines and Military Equipment anywhere in the World—A pretty well known fact," Trump wrote on his social media site. "These fake stories are put out by corrupt prosecutors trying to interfere with the Presidential Election of 2024."

While the exact nature of the conversations and how seriously prosecutors view the allegations is not clear, ...

At least some of Trump's discussions with Pratt about the capabilities of U.S. nuclear submarines occurred while Trump was president, at a time when Australia was still under contract to purchase French submarines, according to one person familiar with the matter. Pratt was not sure about the veracity of Trump's comments, the person said, and the billionaire later recounted the story as an anecdote about the former president's desire to tout American military products as paramount.
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A treason or whatever charge is not going to stick on this as stupid as Sir Orange Bigmouth was in this negotiation. Australia switched its contract to buy subs from France and signed on with us.

In 2021, President Biden and leaders from Australia and the U.K. announced a partnership between the three nations [UK, US & Oz] that would give Australia access to American nuclear submarine technology. The deal resulted in the cancellation of Australia's $100 billion contract with France, to the consternation of the French.
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Biden announces deal to sell nuclear-powered submarines to Australia

No doubt Smith is looking into reports such bragging in the proverbial cocktail lounge continued with Sir Orange after he left office.

ABC; Trump allegedly discussed US nuclear subs with foreign national after leaving White House: Sources

And it's likely he did. But Mr Smith will need some pretty strong evidence given the 'leak' wasn't completely unfounded.
 
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Re the Australian sub deal and the sudden switch: Need to remember that the Aussie PM at the time, Scott Morrison, was completely in thrall to Trump. Donny even invited him round for dinner at Mar-a-Lardo (and likely forgot who he was 30 seconds later).

Scomo (what we call him - every Aussie gets a nickname) is also a hand-waving, end-times-a-coming, evangelical, right-wing nutbag and a thick, lazy and duplicitous ****** to boot. He inherited the position, did not get elected to it.

So no doubt as soon as Scomo heard via Pratt the top-secret details that Donny had so kindly disclosed for free and gratis, he and his Department of Defense wonks who were working the deal at the time would have been VERY quick to take advantage. I'm guessing they told the Yanks they already had the sooper-sekrit details they needed, and would reveal the source if there wasn't a good deal offered. No wonder the French were un peu énervé.

Scomo is no longer PM. But the US sub deal is still happening.
 
Apart from they are British submarines, they are getting the same subs as being designed and built for the Royal Navy, they do include some US technology though.
 
Designed and built in the USA, serviced locally. We are buying the nuclear support, and newer weapons technology too (not nuke, apparently).

Personally, I think our navy should already have nuclear powered vessels, because of its superior range. But how this deal went down, that stinks.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Re the Australian sub deal and the sudden switch: Need to remember that the Aussie PM at the time, Scott Morrison, was completely in thrall to Trump. Donny even invited him round for dinner at Mar-a-Lardo (and likely forgot who he was 30 seconds later).
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"Scott Australia, great guy."
 
Norman Alexander said:
Designed and built in the USA, serviced locally. We are buying the nuclear support, and newer weapons technology too (not nuke, apparently).

Personally, I think our navy should already have nuclear powered vessels, because of its superior range. But how this deal went down, that stinks.
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Apart from the local Australian building and commonality with the RN design you mean?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...=SSN-AUKUS will be the,Navy in the late 2030s.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Re the Australian sub deal and the sudden switch: Need to remember that the Aussie PM at the time, Scott Morrison, was completely in thrall to Trump. Donny even invited him round for dinner at Mar-a-Lardo (and likely forgot who he was 30 seconds later).

Scomo (what we call him - every Aussie gets a nickname) is also a hand-waving, end-times-a-coming, evangelical, right-wing nutbag and a thick, lazy and duplicitous ****** to boot. He inherited the position, did not get elected to it.

So no doubt as soon as Scomo heard via Pratt the top-secret details that Donny had so kindly disclosed for free and gratis, he and his Department of Defense wonks who were working the deal at the time would have been VERY quick to take advantage. I'm guessing they told the Yanks they already had the sooper-sekrit details they needed, and would reveal the source if there wasn't a good deal offered. No wonder the French were un peu énervé.

Scomo is no longer PM. But the US sub deal is still happening.
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From what I was reading at the time Scomo was one of the few people interested in the nuke subs deal. In fact when the original deal was made the Navy were so against nukes that the French had to go away and redesign their subs as diesels for it to be signed.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
From what I was reading at the time Scomo was one of the few people interested in the nuke subs deal. In fact when the original deal was made the Navy were so against nukes that the French had to go away and redesign their subs as diesels for it to be signed.
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That was mainly due to Fukushima, that accident made a lot of people rethink Nuclear. There wasn't that Much Confidence in a French Design the French themselves were thinking about abandoning.
 
Trump speaks out

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

The Failing New York Times story, leaked by Deranged Jack Smith and the Biden "Political Opponent Abuser" DOJ, about a red haired weirdo from Australia, named Anthony Pratt, is Fake News. I never spoke to him about Submarines, but I did speak to him about creating jobs in Ohio and Pennsylvania, because that's what I'm all about - JOBS, A GREAT ECONOMY, LOW TAXES, NO INFLATION, ENERGY DOMINANCE, STRONG BORDERS, NO ENDLESS WARS, LOW INTEREST RATES, and much more! Maggie Hagerman and the Misfits never called me for a comment. Why would they, they just write anything they want. Whether it's correct or not is of ZERO importance to them. "All the News That's Unfit To Print." That's why we call it the Fake News!
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Andy_Ross said:
Trump speaks out

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
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I don't know what's more embarrassing as a nation: that this dumbass was literally our leader for four years, or that he has a nonzero chance of getting the job again.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
I don't know what's more embarrassing as a nation: that this dumbass was literally our leader for four years, or that he has a nonzero chance of getting the job again.
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I'd go for the latter. The first time around, one might possibly have thought, "Oh, he'll become presidential once in office."

No way in hell you could think that now.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
I don't know what's more embarrassing as a nation: that this dumbass was literally our leader for four years, or that he has a nonzero chance of getting the job again.
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And people believe his absolute fantasy about his term in office. How ignorant are people Trump can just lie about everything and they'll repeat it when asked even though the stuff isn't true. None of that happened when he was POTUS. None of it.

It's been quite an eye opener how widespread this propaganda has spread: Trump: magical; Biden: a senile failure.

Neither of those are even remotely true. Even here on this forum some people believe the latter, and a few believe the former.
 
"That's why we call it the Fake News!"

No, Donald. You told us long ago why you call it Fake News: so people won't believe negative stories about you.
 
acbytesla said:
Such a joke. This case should have gone to trial months ago. Canon definitely is helping Trump on every step.
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I agree that Canon is helping Trump.

But, I think that even if you had a competent judge, the trial would not have happened until 2023 anyways. I think the evidence of Trump's guilt is quite clear. But, since it involves documents that are confidential, extra time needs to be taken to ensure that they are handled properly. Early to mid-2024 sounds like a reasonable time frame.

Again, not that I think Canon is doing a good job, nor do I think Trump and his lawyers have a valid reason to delay the trial until 2025.
But the good thing about the ridiculous way she is handling the case is that we can expect Fani Willis to step in if/when Canon postpones the trial.
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You also have Bragg and the NY business document charges, which are smack dab in the middle of Trump's upcoming year of legal quagmire.
 
Segnosaur said:
I agree that Canon is helping Trump.

But, I think that even if you had a competent judge, the trial would not have happened until 2023 anyways. I think the evidence of Trump's guilt is quite clear. But, since it involves documents that are confidential, extra time needs to be taken to ensure that they are handled properly. Early to mid-2024 sounds like a reasonable time frame.
Again, not that I think Canon is doing a good job, nor do I think Trump and his lawyers have a valid reason to delay the trial until 2025.

You also have Bragg and the NY business document charges, which are smack dab in the middle of Trump's upcoming year of legal quagmire.
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I understand that there is an issue over the confidential nature of classified documents. While this might add a couple of months. It certainly wouldn't add two years to the case.

You're forgetting the history of this case.
The documents were discovered during a search of Mar a Lago conducted August 8th, 2022. But Canon issued an incomprehensible ruling that prevented the FBI from investigating what it found until mid December when the appeals court overruled her.

So instead of an indictment in January 2023, it didn't happen until June of 2023.

And her handling since she was assigned the case in June has been both corrupt and incompetent. CIPA clearly lays out how to handle the documents. But Canon is pretending this is all novel.

This case should have gone to trial by August of this year at the latest. That would have left them 8 to 9 months to prepare for a case. And frankly, for a case this simple it is is far too much.
 
acbytesla said:
But, I think that even if you had a competent judge, the trial would not have happened until 2023 anyways. I think the evidence of Trump's guilt is quite clear. But, since it involves documents that are confidential, extra time needs to be taken to ensure that they are handled properly. Early to mid-2024 sounds like a reasonable time frame.
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I understand that there is an issue over the confidential nature of classified documents. While this might add a couple of months. It certainly wouldn't add two years to the case.

You're forgetting the history of this case.
The documents were discovered during a search of Mar a Lago conducted August 8th, 2022. But Canon issued an incomprehensible ruling that prevented the FBI from investigating what it found until mid December when the appeals court overruled her.

So instead of an indictment in January 2023, it didn't happen until June of 2023.
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The search was done in August 2022, but she didn't really start to interfere with the evidence until September 5 (when she barred to DOJ from dealing with the documents.) This was partly rolled back by the circuit judge after less than a month, and fully stuck down by December 1. So at most there was a delay of 3 months. (And even that wasn't a complete delay because the DOJ was given partial access.)

Currently the trial is set for May 2024. Holding the trial 3 months earlier would have it in February/March.
And her handling since she was assigned the case in June has been both corrupt and incompetent.
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I agree, she is corrupt and incompetent. And yes she is causing delays. I just don't think that it was enough to cause over a half year of delay.

See: Time
 
Segnosaur said:
The search was done in August 2022, but she didn't really start to interfere with the evidence until September 5 (when she barred to DOJ from dealing with the documents.) This was partly rolled back by the circuit judge after less than a month, and fully stuck down by December 1. So at most there was a delay of 3 months. (And even that wasn't a complete delay because the DOJ was given partial access.)

Currently the trial is set for May 2024. Holding the trial 3 months earlier would have it in February/March.

I agree, she is corrupt and incompetent. And yes she is causing delays. I just don't think that it was enough to cause over a half year of delay.

See: Time
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That is 1 month after the search. September to December is three months. And she has easily added at least three more months in how she has handled the case so far. So easily a 6 month delay in total. Trial should have started between September to December of this year.

And I bet you money that she will delay it more tomorrow.
 
acbytesla said:
That is 1 month after the search. September to December is three months. And she has easily added at least three more months in how she has handled the case so far. So easily a 6 month delay in total. Trial should have started between September to December of this year.

And I bet you money that she will delay it more tomorrow.
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Step 1: delay the trial until after the election.
Step 2: Trump wins election
Step 3: Trump takes office, pardons himself, rendering trial moot.
Step 4: Guess who he nominates for the next Supreme Court vacancy? Go on, guess!
 
TragicMonkey said:
Step 1: delay the trial until after the election.
Step 2: Trump wins election
Step 3: Trump takes office, pardons himself, rendering trial moot.
Step 4: Guess who he nominates for the next Supreme Court vacancy? Go on, guess!
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GW Bush tried to nominate Harriet Miers, an incompetent attorney to the SCOTUS.

The Senate was having none of it and eventually Miers withdrew her name.

As long as we have the Senate there will be no more incompetent or corrupt SCOTUS appointments.
 
Segnosaur said:
I agree that Canon is helping Trump.



But, I think that even if you had a competent judge, the trial would not have happened until 2023 anyways. I think the evidence of Trump's guilt is quite clear. But, since it involves documents that are confidential, extra time needs to be taken to ensure that they are handled properly. Early to mid-2024 sounds like a reasonable time frame.



Again, not that I think Canon is doing a good job, nor do I think Trump and his lawyers have a valid reason to delay the trial until 2025.



You also have Bragg and the NY business document charges, which are smack dab in the middle of Trump's upcoming year of legal quagmire.
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All they had to do was go to where there is a SCIF. It's a lot easier than building a whole new SCIF for one trial. They would have come up with another reason anyway. Trump has years of experience at delaying trials,
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
GW Bush tried to nominate Harriet Miers, an incompetent attorney to the SCOTUS.
The Senate was having none of it and eventually Miers withdrew her name.

As long as we have the Senate there will be no more incompetent or corrupt SCOTUS appointments.
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Ha ha. That's funny.

A couple of decades ago that might have been the norm. "Don't pick anyone that doesn't have at least some appeal to the other side". But Moscow Mitch has thrown out that concept, so if we ever get a republican senate and republican president again, they will happily confirm the most incompetent pick.

(And of course if you ever have a democratic president and a republican senate, the senate will block the nomination, until they have another republican president again.)
 
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