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[Merged] Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

smartcooky said:
Counter nitpick: The word of "officer" in this context is a working title, NOT a rank. It is used in the same way a that a "police officer" can also be a sergeant. In the military, an intelligence officer can be an NCO such as a sergeant, a Lance Corporal or a Leading Hand, or even not an NCO at all. Bradley was an E-2 Private First Class (PFC). If his job was "to collect, compile or analyze information", that made him an intelligence office no matter his rank.
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Highly dubious of this regarding the military. I might accept the occasional NCO who's technically Captain of a boat but the notion that an E2 would be an officer in any use of the term in the military, not sure I buy that.
 
d4m10n said:
Is it your view that Congressmen are a good proxy for those female interest groups?

I mean, you bring up a good point but patriarchy probably isn't the answer.
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Meh, that's a result of the gerontocracy not a patriarchy. Average age of the house is 58, average age of the US, 40. 40 year old Americans most likely to become representatives, almost certainly women. As they are more likely to be lawyers, college grads and what not.

That being said, the house is about 30% women.

ETA, also in most issue polling, women and men don't seem to be all that apart. Its really just are you conservative/republican vs liberal/democrat that there are big differences.
 
Myriad said:
One explanation I've seen for transgender incarnations from a Western occult perspective is they happen when there is too short a delay/respite in the higher planes in between incarnations of opposite sexes, which in turn is caused by the world's current high human population leading to a shortage of available spirits and consequent reduction of the recovery time between incarnations. You might enjoy the exercise of further unpacking all the assumptions in play in that narrative.
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Jeez, bloody capitalist supply and demand gets everywhere!
 
d4m10n said:
Is it your view that Congressmen are a good proxy for those female interest groups?
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It absolutely is my view. That's the whole point of representative democracy and universal suffrage.

Not only that, but I vehemently reject the idea that the sexes are unable to apply abstract reasoning and human empathy to broad questions of public policy that affect each other.
 
smartcooky said:
Sorry, but I think you are living in a fools paradise. This problem does exist, and is more prevalent than you think

Both of my daughters have been confronted by men in public toilets. One of the men claimed he had every right to be there. He became aggressive and verbally abusive when my daughter told him to get out.


ETA: If you don't believe crimes by trangender people is a real issue, you need to do some research on the subject. Here's a primer for you

2024 MURDERS
Fangze Wang/Scarlet Blake: Murder of a 30 year old Spanish man, Jorge Martin Carreno, in July 2021
Joanna Rowland-Stuart: Charged with the murder of Andrew Rowland-Stuart (partner of accused)
Steve Wright: Charged with the murder and kidnap of 17-year-old Victoria Hall in September 1999 and the attempted kidnap of a 22-year-old woman the previous night -

2024 SEXUAL OFFENCES WITH CHILD VICTIMS
Anthony/Aria Peers: Two counts of rape, attempted rape, three charges of sexual assault and two offences of inciting a child (a young girl) to engage in sexual activity
Joanna Evans: Multiple sexual assault offences against three young boys
Thomas Quinn/Chloee-Mae Danvers: Multiple child sex offences including attempting to engage in sexual communication with a child and possession of indecent images of children
Samantha Norris: Three counts of making indecent photographs of a child, possession of a prohibited image of a child, and possession of extreme pornographic images depicting sexual assault of an animal
Andrew Easton: Downloading and distributing indecent images of children
Janiel Verainer/Jorven Seren: Repeat child sex offender convicted of multiple SHPO breaches
Nigel/Emma Davies: Making indecent images of children and failing to surrender to court

2024 SEXUAL OFFENCES WITH ADULT VICTIMS
Cameron Downing: Sexual assault of six young adults (and additional assault/domestic violence offences)
Alexander/Lexi Secker: Rape of a woman
Kurtis Mawson: Sexual assault on a female, voyeurism, three counts of making indecent photographs of a child and possessing an extreme pornographic image, SHPO breaches
Freddie/Xenia Jade Millar: Rapist convicted of breaching a SHPO and breaching sex offender notification requirements
Charged for suspected sex offences:
Osareen Omoruyi: Charged with two counts each of sexual assault by penetration and causing/inciting a child to engage in sexual activity
David/Denise Flynn: Charged with multiple indecent exposure offences
Arrested in connection with suspected sex offences:
David Griffiths/Penny Price: Convicted sex offender arrested in January 2024 after allegedly being caught in a sting operation by a paedophile hunter group

2024 OTHER VIOLENT OFFENCES
Scarlet Blake: Murderer (see above) who also tortured and killed a cat before putting it in a blender)
Louise Thomas (believed to be new identity of violent trans sex offender Lewis Foord): Assault causing actual bodily harm (ABH) of a young woman
Jason Graham/Evans: Assault of a woman (a nurse at the hospital where Graham/Evans, a rapist and murderer, was being treated)
Paris Bregazzi: Serial violent offender convicted of assaulting six women in September and of racially aggravated assault by beating of another woman in November
David/Davina Moore: Multiple offences including two arsons, criminal damage and harassment of family members
Marcus Smith/Adam Hodgson/Layla Le Fey: Four counts of sending an offensive/obscene/menacing message via public communication network (threats posted on Twitter/X to women’s rights campaigners)
Andrew Fleming/Susan Hope: Violently threatening and harassing a female neighbour and her husband, assault of a police officer
Rebecca Lowe: Possession of an offensive weapon (after violent altercation with a neighbour)
Alan/Alannah Morgan: Behaving in a threatening or abusive manner on multiple occasions towards an MP and his staff, and two charges of graffitiing business premises
Mark/Marcia Walker: Child rapist convicted of multiple further offences while in prison, including physical attacks on two prison officers and sending threatening voicemails, letters and emails to prison staff
Ella Potter: Threatening and abusive behaviour towards the police and a member of the public

But hey folks, nothing to see here but boogeymen. Amirite?
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Yep. You're creating a boogeyman.

Your argument is that extra emphasis is required. I don't buy it. How many of these offenses took place in a restroom or a woman's locker room?

No one is saying that Trans people don't sometimes commit crimes. They are human beings. Of course they do. Context is everything. Do you think you can eliminate some biological males from feeling they are deep inside actually female? Do you think special laws for bathrooms will effectively protect women? Who's living in a fool's paradise?

I lived for years on Capitol Hill in Seattle and worked tending bar in a gay/straight/trans nightclub. I also worked in many straight nightclubs. The straight nightclubs had fights and sexual assaults on a regular basis. We could count on calling the police every weekend. In contrast there were almost no issues at the gay/trans clubs.

My point isn't that there are absolutely no problems. Just that every cure causes far more problems.
 
Wudang said:
Jeez, bloody capitalist supply and demand gets everywhere!
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Must be the fault of those you-know-whos who come inside and don't pull out. Butch boxers, library readers with untanned balls, mayhem in the locker room, hurricanes too probably, it's all down to those damned brown breeders clogging up the system. Budget cuts in paradise. We needed a new god who can bring needed austerity to the heavens, ditch the deep empyrean. We got him. All will be well again.
 
acbytesla said:
Yep. You're creating a boogeyman.

Your argument is that extra emphasis is required. I don't buy it. How many of these offenses took place in a restroom or a woman's locker room?

No one is saying that Trans people don't sometimes commit crimes. They are human beings. Of course they do. Context is everything. Do you think you can eliminate some biological males from feeling they are deep inside actually female? Do you think special laws for bathrooms will effectively protect women? Who's living in a fool's paradise?

I lived for years on Capitol Hill in Seattle and worked tending bar in a gay/straight/trans nightclub. I also worked in many straight nightclubs. The straight nightclubs had fights and sexual assaults on a regular basis. We could count on calling the police every weekend. In contrast there were almost no issues at the gay/trans clubs.

My point isn't that there are absolutely no problems. Just that every cure causes far more problems.
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Transgender self-indentified men are five times more likely to commit sexual crimes against females and children than cis males
Transgender self-indentified men are five hundred times more likely to commit sexual crimes against females and children than cis females.

Please explain how giving this group of biological males, with a proven track record of sexual criminality, special permission to enter women's safe spaces at will, is not going to cause problems for women.

What if we forget about the transwomen issues for a moment..... here's a thought experiment for you. What if we took a specific group of men, say, convicted serial rapists and paedophiles, and we gave them special, legal permission to enter women's and children's spaces. Would you object to this? Would you be happy to allow this to happen?
 
smartcooky said:
You obviously don't have any daughters or granddaughters. If you do, you ought to be ashamed of yourself, and I feel sorry for them - not having father/grandfather who give a flying **** about their safety.
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There's a difference from caring about our lived ones and being able to present solutions. Implementing laws that making it illegal for a trans person from using the toilet in a women's restroom is unlikely to will safeguard your daughter or granddaughter.
 
smartcooky said:
Transgender self-indentified men are five times more likely to commit sexual crimes against females and children than cis males
Transgender self-indentified men are five hundred times more likely to commit sexual crimes against females and children than cis females.

Please explain how giving this group of biological males, with a proven track record of sexual criminality, special permission to enter women's safe spaces at will, is not going to cause problems for women.

What if we forget about the transwomen issues for a moment..... here's a thought experiment for you. What if we took a specific group of men, say, convicted serial rapists and paedophiles, and we gave them special, legal permission to enter women's and children's spaces. Would you object to this? Would you be happy to allow this to happen?
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Where did you come up with those stats? My bet is some transphobic person made them up and they have been cited and repeated tons of times. But that doesn't mean they are true. 95 percent of the crap being repeated about transpeople are made up. But in all fairness, the vast majority of info about anything that is found on the internet is repeated nonsense.
 
acbytesla said:
There's a difference from caring about our lived ones and being able to present solutions. Implementing laws that making it illegal for a trans person from using the toilet in a women's restroom is unlikely to will safeguard your daughter or granddaughter.
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It will certainly make it less likely that a man will enter those spaces. As it stands, in some places, all a man has to do is say the magic words "I am a woman" and he immediately becomes a woman under law, and cannot be denied access to women's safe spaces. You're OK with this? You would allow that man access to those spaces over the objections of women?
 
acbytesla said:
Where did you come up with those stats? My bet is some transphobic person made them up and they have been cited and repeated tons of times. But that doesn't mean they are true. 95 percent of the crap being repeated about transpeople are made up. But in all fairness, the vast majority of info about anything that is found on the internet is repeated nonsense.
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UK Government Criminal Justice statistics, an actual head count of convicted criminals.

The source has been posted in this thread a few times (either by Rolfe or Pixel42 I think), If you had been following the thread instead of jumping in and going off half-cocked with your knee-jerk reactions, you might have already known this.
 
smartcooky said:
It will certainly make it less likely that a man will enter those spaces. As it stands, in some places, all a man has to do is say the magic words "I am a woman" and he immediately becomes a woman under law, and cannot be denied access to women's safe spaces. You're OK with this? You would allow that man access to those spaces over the objections of women?
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No, it won't.

You have absolutely no idea how many transgender people are out there. And how hard it is to tell what their actual biological sex is. I guarantee you would have a very hard time differentiating a trans-female from a CIS--female. I personally know dozens of transgender individuals and I can't do it. It's almost embarrassing to say this since I'm a straight CIS male. But some of the most attractive women I've met are men.

They use women's facilities because they look like women. They would look much more out of place in the men's.

And let's be honest. Women's restrooms have private stalls. It's not like they have urinals and they have their penis hanging out. Restrooms are not some kind of hotbed for violence or sexual assaults.
 
acbytesla said:
Do you think special laws for bathrooms will effectively protect women?
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Why do you think the flasher on the common hasn't always gone instead to the gym, entered the women's changing room, stripped off and gone into their showers, and exhibited himself to the women there whilst ogling their naked bodies? Do you think it might have something to do with the fact that he knows all the women have to do is raise the alarm and the staff will eject him, and quite possibly call the police?

Now imagine that scenario in a world where the women know that if they raise the alarm all he has to do is claim to be trans, and the staff (and the law) will be on his side.
 
smartcooky said:
UK Government Criminal Justice statistics, an actual head count of convicted criminals.

The source has been posted in this thread a few times (either by Rolfe or Pixel42 I think), If you had been following the thread instead of jumping in and going off half-cocked with your knee-jerk reactions, you might have already known this.
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My knee jerk reaction is to ask for evidence. And that doesn't qualify as a proper citation.
 
Pixel42 said:
Why do you think the flasher on the common hasn't always gone instead to the gym, entered the women's changing room, stripped off and gone into their showers, and exhibited himself to the women there whilst ogling their naked bodies? Do you think it might have something to do with the fact that he knows all the women have to do is raise the alarm and the staff will eject him, and quite possibly call the police?

Now imagine that scenario in a world where the women know that if they raise the alarm all he has to do is claim to be trans, and the staff (and the law) will be on his side.
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Tell me when that happens.
 
theprestige said:
Scenarios like that have already happened more than once. Establishments offering safe spaces for women have already had to deal with legal backlash for responding.

So now you've been told that it's happened. Move on to your next talking point, please.
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You saying it happened, doesn't mean it did.
 
Ziggurat said:
Why wouldn't it happen? What's to stop it from happening?

Sometimes, problems are easy to see coming before they arrive. Even if they haven't yet, that doesn't mean they won't. The idea that you can change standards and expect the same behavior from people is pure stupidity.
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Why wouldn't it happen? Because people are almost always trying to fit into their environment. They're not trying to cause issues. Wild hypotheticals or outliers doesn't necessarily require new laws that are hateful.
 
acbytesla said:
My knee jerk reaction is to ask for evidence. And that doesn't qualify as a proper citation.
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https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/ Go to para 2. The spreadsheet containing the data (the actual number of convicted prisoners is hyperlinked from there. These are 2019 figures; there may be newer ones but these are quite clear in demonstrating that trans-identifying males commit sex crimes at a much greater rate than do natal females or males not identifying as trans.
Of 129 trans-identifying males in prison, 76 were convicted of sex offences, including rape - 58.9%.
Of 3812 females in prison, 125 were convicted of sex offences - 3.3%
Of 78781 males in prison, 13234 were convicted of sex offences including rape - 16.8%
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acbytesla said:
My knee jerk reaction is to ask for evidence.
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Yes. It's a familiar pattern in this thread:

  1. A "skeptic" drops in with a knee-jerk demand for evidence.
  2. Either evidence provided earlier is referenced for the "skeptic", or the same evidence is provided anew.
  3. The "skeptic" blusters for a bit, then disappears from the thread when it comes time to discuss the evidence.
  4. A year later, the same "skeptic" drops in to repeat their knee-jerk demand for evidence.
 
Ziggurat said:
Deny it happened, doesn't mean it didn't.
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You're right. It doesn't. But I also can't disprove God, Big Foot of the Loch Ness monster. I'm not making a positive claim. You are.

I'm not afraid of gay or transgender people. I'm also not willing to discriminate angainst an individual because of hypotheticals or outliers of others that are similar. I think most of the transgender scare is overwrought and exaggerated fears with little actual facts supporting it.
 
acbytesla said:
You're right. It doesn't. But I also can't disprove God, Big Foot of the Loch Ness monster. I'm not making a positive claim. You are.
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Multiple examples including evidence have been posted repeatedly in this thread. The fact that people aren't in the mood to go dig them up again because you haven't been keeping up may be inconvenient to you, but I don't really care.
acbytesla said:
I'm not afraid of gay or transgender people.
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So what? You're also probably not afraid of sexual predators, because you aren't their prey. That doesn't mean that people who are vulnerable to sexual predators have no right to take precautions to minimize their vulnerability. Your callous indifference to the risks they face doesn't make you a better person.
 
Agatha said:
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/ Go to para 2. The spreadsheet containing the data (the actual number of convicted prisoners is hyperlinked from there. These are 2019 figures; there may be newer ones but these are quite clear in demonstrating that trans-identifying males commit sex crimes at a much greater rate than do natal females or males not identifying as trans.
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How many of those sexual assaults were against women in public or private facilities open to the public?

Even if MtF transgender individuals show the same degree of violent tendencies as CIS men. Which is what your cite offered. Does it justify the massive amount of hate and violence towards transgender MtFs? Does it demonstrate a need to create laws to criminalize the use of a toilet? BTW, I see nothing on Google Scholar that shows in depth studies of violence committed by MtFs in public accommodation spaces.
 
Rolfe said:
It was his friendship with Manning that caused Craig Murray to be so vehemently pro-trans in every possible way. I don't suppose this will put him off, but it does rather give the lie to his characterisation of Manning as being so kind and generous and inoffensive.
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Craig Murray is an odd one, to be fair. I used to argue with the 9/11 Truthers on his site (probably something like 80% were Truthers and they were often the moderates; there were all kinds of weirdos on his site with the most insane conspiracy theories). He eventually clarified for them that he wasn’t a Truther himself. Instead he seemed to have a lot of sympathy for various Islamist groups such as Hizb-ut-Tahrir. It seems almost comically modish for him to support both trans-rights, Islamism and Scottish independence at the same time.
 
Ziggurat said:
Multiple examples including evidence have been posted repeatedly in this thread. The fact that people aren't in the mood to go dig them up again because you haven't been keeping up may be inconvenient to you, but I don't really care.
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Nonsense, I care. What I don't care about is jumping on a bandwagon of hate.
Ziggurat said:
So what? You're also probably not afraid of sexual predators, because you aren't their prey. That doesn't mean that people who are vulnerable to sexual predators have no right to take precautions to minimize their vulnerability. Your callous indifference to the risks they face doesn't make you a better person.
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Weak sauce. I don't buy making it a criminal offense for a MtF to use a Women's restroom protects women.
 
Matthew Best said:
Please show your working for this assertion.
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"The group had no statistically significant differences from other natal males, for convictions in general or
for violent offending." Straight from the source that Agatha cited.
 
acbytesla said:
How many of those sexual assaults were against women in public or private facilities open to the public?

Even if MtF transgender individuals show the same degree of violent tendencies as CIS men. Which is what your cite offered. Does it justify the massive amount of hate and violence towards transgender MtFs? Does it demonstrate a need to create laws to criminalize the use of a toilet? BTW, I see nothing on Google Scholar that shows in depth studies of violence committed by MtFs in public accommodation spaces.
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That's not what you asked for. You challenged smartcooky's post containing the statistics of transgender-identifying males committing sex offences at a much greater rate than either women or non-transgender-identifying males, and asked for a cite (despite it having been posted in this thread several times).

And the cite doesn't show that trans-identifying men commit "the same degree of violent tendencies as [non trans-identifying] men. It shows them committing sexual offences at a far greater rate. Why are you ignoring the actual numbers and changing the subject to violent rather than sexual crime, or limiting it to crimes in public bathrooms? That isn't what smartcooky claimed.

There have been several crimes committed by trans-identifying males against women and girls in bathrooms - for example those crimes committed by "Katie" Dolatowski. But all those have been repeated several times on this thread

What you said to smartcooky was:
acbytesla said:
Where did you come up with those stats? My bet is some transphobic person made them up and they have been cited and repeated tons of times. But that doesn't mean they are true. 95 percent of the crap being repeated about transpeople are made up. But in all fairness, the vast majority of info about anything that is found on the internet is repeated nonsense.
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You lost your bet. The stats came from a FOI request to the UK government, which no doubt you noticed when you went to the link I gave.
 
angrysoba said:
Craig Murray is an odd one, to be fair. I used to argue with the 9/11 Truthers on his site (probably something like 80% were Truthers and they were often the moderates; there were all kinds of weirdos on his site with the most insane conspiracy theories). He eventually clarified for them that he wasn’t a Truther himself. Instead he seemed to have a lot of sympathy for various Islamist groups such as Hizb-ut-Tahrir. It seems almost comically modish for him to support both trans-rights, Islamism and Scottish independence at the same time.
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If he's not a Truther that's probably the first conspiracy theory he ever saw that he didn't like.
 
ahhell said:
It happened at least once.

Loading…

www.advocate.com

A person with a penis was hanging out naked in a women's spa.
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Here, too.

After banning trans women, Washington spa fights antidiscrimination laws at Ninth Circuit

Customers of the spa — that is, nude women aged 13 or older — are not “publicly available goods or services that males are entitled to view when females do not consent,” he told the justices. Therefore, he argued, the state’s public accommodation rules shouldn’t apply.

In late 2020, the state's Human Rights Commission issued a complaint of discrimination after a transgender woman who had not undergone sex-reassignment surgery was denied service at the spa. The spa argued that its nudity requirement was consistent with state laws and codes.

The spa also added new language to its entrance policy, stating on its website that “biological women are welcome.”
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angrysoba said:
His fans were massively let down. They had assumed, and I don’t blame them…
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I've had the same thing in relation to my work on Lockerbie. I'll give a carefully-prepared 40-minute presentation of the evidence that the bomb wasn't introduced at Malta, and then ask for questions. A dollar to a dud dime and someone will start banging on about their belief that Wille MacRae was murdered by the Special Branch (and David Kelly and Hilda somebody as well), and get quite aggressive when I inform them that I'm entirely certain that Willie MacRae committed suicide on the down-swing of a bipolar episode. 9/11 also features sometimes.

CTers are absolutely certain that every CT is true, and get pretty miffed if a proponent of one thing that they think is a CT doesn't subscribe to them all. To be fair to Craig Murray, he's right some of the time. He's absolutely right about the plot to frame Alex Salmond for rape, for example.

Sorry this is off topic, I'll stop now.
 
I suspect that there are major flaws in the census count and violence among transgender individuals. Thatvsaid, it might be accurate. Whether it is my bias or theirs is still unknown. But it is staggering to me just how much flawed and even doctored information is published by individuals with personal agendas.
 
Why do you suspect flaws in the census (or the counts of convicted prisoners) in England & Wales? It's a hard count of every person, not numbers extrapolated from sampling. And the statistics being shown (as already noted) are about sex offences, not violent offences.
 
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acbytesla said:
Tell me when that happens.
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When what happens? When a woman doesn't bother to raise the alarm when a male enters what was previously a female safe space and behaves inappropriately because she knows nothing will be done, and she's just expected to put up with it? When a woman stops going to the gym because there are no longer any such things as female safe spaces?

Why don't you tell me why the feelings of a trans identifying male when expected to use male or unisex facilities are so much more important than the feelings of a female rape victim when expected to share the women's showers with a male she neither knows nor trusts?
 
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