Merged Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Rolfe]

More luscious cherries.



It's never going to be possible to declare that x per cent of trans-identified men are porn-addled exhibitionists, so it's always going to be cherries. But, going out on a limb, I don't think the proportion is insignificant.

If I simply met these guys in the street I'd smirk and walk on. But giving them permission to be in a changing room with me? No thanks. Mr Fringe Top was seen by eyewitnesses going into the Ladies toilets at Waterloo station.

 

[smartcooky]

Anyone who thinks people with gender dysphoria should be unconditionally supported and encouraged to transition needs to spend a hour watching this. Its an interview with Dr Az Hakkeem by Andrew Gold. Dr. Hakeem is one of Britain's leading psychiatrists treating and dealing with gender dysphoria. He is on the TRA top ten kill-list.

In this video, he explains the differences between transsexuals, transvestites and autogynephiles, and how they become they way they are. Its not for the faint-hearted - 26% of his clients are de-transitioners and he tells some heart-breaking stories from his file (no names of course).

There will, of course, be those here who won't watch because they won't want their cult ideology disturbed.

 

[angrysoba]

This is an excellent article in the first edition of the Observer under new ownership.

‘MPs are outsourcing their morals’

Thinking through the relationship between sex, gender and rights doesn’t require supreme court guidance

observer.co.uk

Kenan Malick is always worth reading, IMHO, and I doubt his article would have been any different even under the previous ownership.

 

[jimbob]

I have put this thread on moderated status as there are lots of reports about it. Keep to the Membership Agreement

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob

 

[Ziggurat]

If you seek out freaky people to mock and ridicule, you will surely find them.

I don’t have to seek out protesters. They’re pushing their presence onto others. That’s how protesting works.

If you want to try out being normal, consider Rep Sarah McBride.

Yes, McBride is pretty normal. But the existence of normal doesn’t make the freaks go away. You can argue that the freaks aren’t representative of the whole, and that may be true, but they are still there. They hold themselves out as being representative, and the normal ones like McBride don’t push back. The normal ones like McBride aren’t telling them to knock that ◊◊◊◊ off.

 

[smartcooky]

I don’t have to seek out protesters. They’re pushing their presence onto others. That’s how protesting works.

Yes, McBride is pretty normal. But the existence of normal doesn’t make the freaks go away. You can argue that the freaks aren’t representative of the whole, and that may be true, but they are still there. They hold themselves out as being representative, and the normal ones like McBride don’t push back. The normal ones like McBride aren’t telling them to knock that ◊◊◊◊ off.

The normal ones like McBride aren't holding up placards calling for JK Rowling to be hanged.
The normal ones like McBride aren't threatening to urinate in public.

 

[Graham2001]

Courtesty of Spiked!

Since the UK Supreme Court ruled on the definition of ‘woman’ in the Equality Act, there has been a firestorm of clashing emotions. Furious trans activists and their devout allies have been doing their best to snuff out the righteous jubilation of women’s rights campaigners.

In Scotland, it’s even more intense. On the one hand, it is a great source of pride that it was a Scottish grassroots organisation – For Women Scotland – that played such a vital role in securing the landmark ruling. On the other hand, it was the Scottish government that rendered the court case necessary, by steadfastly committing itself to erasing women as a sex class in law.

The SNP still doesn’t know what a woman is

 

[d4m10n]

Looks like the activists have been doing their stuff on the entry on Zucker again.

Yup.

 

[Rolfe]

The normal ones like McBride aren't holding up placards calling for JK Rowling to be hanged.
The normal ones like McBride aren't threatening to urinate in public.

The normal ones like McBride are nevertheless insisting on their right to go into women's single-sex spaces, despite both being and looking male.

 

[Rolfe]

Courtesty of Spiked!

The SNP still doesn’t know what a woman is

It's a paradox I've been musing on. If the SNP hadn't said the quiet part out loud in that "Representation on public boards" niche legislation, it would have been much harder to get this resolved. The fact that that legislation was actually passed gave FWS a really solid target to go after, having already been motivated to become very clued-up on the issue by all the heat and light surrounding the GRA.

 

[Rolfe]

Kenan Malick is always worth reading, IMHO, and I doubt his article would have been any different even under the previous ownership.

I suspect you're right. I saw quite a lot of people on Twitter criticising the article, but that was probably because he was genuinely balanced.

 

[Pixel42]

The normal ones like McBride are nevertheless insisting on their right to go into women's single-sex spaces, despite both being and looking male.

And this was despite the fact that, in addition to single-sex spaces, there are also unisex cubicles all over the Capitol, and every Representative has an office with their own private facilities attached. Nothing less than access to anything and everything reserved solely for women will do, no matter how many reasonable alternatives are provided, because nothing less will give them (even the 'normal' ones) the validation they crave.

 

[Ziggurat]

Are you familiar with the photographed transwoman? She's autistic, and so is her equally colorful partner. And I guess you didn't notice, but those were not public pics; they were very much taken in the privacy of their home.

The pictures were taken in privacy. But they aren't private pictures now. They are publicly available pictures. Who made those pictures publicly available? Was that the result of a hack, or did they release the pictures themselves? If they made the pictures publicly available themselves (which seems probable, but feel free to correct me if it's not), then they are public pictures.

Certainly mocking and ridiculing autistics is a new low for y'all. "Oh, we didn't know" is not an excuse, either, considering the 10-15 seconds it took for me to run the image search. Do you generally mock the 'tards with the same nasty malice that you mock the trannys?

What exactly do you think the relevance of them being autistic is? Does that insulate them from criticism? That would be strangely ableist. You criticize posters for not knowing, but you haven't established why we should even care.

There are a lot of autistic trans people. It's a very common co-morbidity. Common enough that there's reason to suspect that a lot of them are adopting trans identity as a coping mechanism for their autism, not because they're intrinsically trans. Encouraging transition rather than treating their underlying difficulties with autism isn't doing them any favors.

 

[d4m10n]

And this was despite the fact that, in addition to single-sex spaces, there are also unisex cubicles all over the Capitol, and every Representative has an office with their own private facilities attached. Nothing less than access to anything and everything reserved solely for women will do, no matter how many reasonable alternatives are provided, because nothing less will give them (even the 'normal' ones) the validation they crave.

From what I've seen, McBride made much less of a fuss about this issue than her political opponents did.

 

[Rolfe]

I think this is a very succinct way of putting it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1916831155556360405

I'm still aghast that anyone would even think to advance the case of any male person, no matter how sincere, to have a legal right to insert himself into that space. I'm even more aghast that the probability that the male person is actually motivated by a sexual fetish for participating in women's conversations about rape can be so blithely dismissed.

 

[Rolfe]

From what I've seen, McBride made much less of a fuss about this issue than [his] political opponents did.

I don't agree. It was McBride who initiated the fuss by insisting that he should not be barred from any of the women-only spaces, despite the existence of adequate alternative provision. If he had simply kept quiet and carried on not using women-only spaces, there would have been no fuss.

 

[Thermal]

The pictures were taken in privacy. But they aren't private pictures now.

We are not talking about whether the pictures are public. We are talking about our fellow forumites reserving the right to point and laugh and mock and ridicule autistic trans people that they see "in public", when the picture in question was her playing around for the release of the Barbie movie, where she used that dress up pic for making a meme.

What exactly do you think the relevance of them being autistic is? Does that insulate them from criticism?

Mocking neurodivergent people is generally considered pretty scummy, yes.

Common enough that there's reason to suspect that a lot of them are adopting trans identity as a coping mechanism for their autism, not because they're intrinsically trans.

I don't think.this has scientific support beyond the anti trans community, but if you don't mind, this whole "let's mock the 'tards" thing is several notches below my already pretty low bar for what constitutes an appropriate discussion, so imma bounce.

 

[Rolfe]

Anyone who thinks people with gender dysphoria should be unconditionally supported and encouraged to transition needs to spend a hour watching this. Its an interview with Dr Az Hakkeem by Andrew Gold. Dr. Hakeem is one of Britain's leading psychiatrists treating and dealing with gender dysphoria. He is on the TRA top ten kill-list.

In this video, he explains the differences between transsexuals, transvestites and autogynephiles, and how they become they way they are. Its not for the faint-hearted - 26% of his clients are de-transitioners and he tells some heart-breaking stories from his file (no names of course).

There will, of course, be those here who won't watch because they won't want their cult ideology disturbed.

I think the Twitter thread below (nearly three years old) is very relevant to this video. People who have been performing medical interventions that have been shown to be harmful are unfortunately inclined to double down, because admitting that they have in fact done an enormous amount of harm rather than good is simply too painful for them to contemplate. Their critics must be wrong, and probably motivated by malice to boot.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1523755726598184962

The even older thread linked at the end is an interesting parallel. That obstetric x-rays continued to be performed for 25 years after they'd been shown to be the cause of a rising incidence of childhood leukaemia. (Also interesting that a major cause of this was a paper by Richard Doll, the epidemiologist who later showed that cigarette smoking was the cause of the rising incidence of lung cancer.)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1427969776039694346

 

[theprestige]

It occurred to me this morning that we used to have exactly what our moderate TRAs say they'd find acceptable: no men in women's spaces, except for bathrooms, and even then only if they're trying to pass and don't act up.

Fiat self-ID was a generally understood and accepted convention, with clear limits and strict expectations. It was one of the great unwritten rules of our civil society. Trying to codify it as the law of the land is what curdled the milk.

 

[Rolfe]

It occurred to me this morning that we used to have exactly what our moderate TRAs say they'd find acceptable: no men in women's spaces, except for bathrooms, and even then only if they're trying to pass and don't act up.

Fiat self-ID was a generally understood and accepted convention, with clear limits and strict expectations. It was one of the great unwritten rules of our civil society. Trying to codify it as the law of the land is what curdled the milk.

That ship has sailed though. Women who would have gone along with this even ten years ago, won't countenance it now. We've seen what it leads to.

 

[Ziggurat]

Mocking neurodivergent people is generally considered pretty scummy, yes.

Why? This person isn't being mocked for their neurodivergence. You're the only person who even brought it up. If you're arguing that no neurodivergent person can be mocked for any reason at all, ◊◊◊◊ that. Being neurodivergent isn't some sort of immunity card. It's incredibly patronizing on your part (towards them, not me) to try to make it such.

 

[d4m10n]

It was McBride who initiated the fuss by insisting that he should not be barred from any of the women-only spaces, despite the existence of adequate alternative provision.

When exactly did Rep. McBride do this? Was it before they even came to Congress?

Speaker Johnson declares support for banning Sarah McBride's access to women's restrooms

House Speaker Mike Johnson declared that lawmakers and staff will have to use the restroom corresponding with their biological sex.

apnews.com

 

[theprestige]

That ship has sailed though. Women who would have gone along with this even ten years ago, won't countenance it now. We've seen what it leads to.

Yes, it certainly did. It's like when kids are allowed to get away with a little bit of hijinks, but then some jackass decides to push the limits, and now everyone is subject to strict enforcement. One of those "this is why we can't have nice things" situations.

---

Another thing that occurred to me (while we're on the topic) is that in hindsight maybe the writing was on the wall when this thread first got created. That it gained any support at all, at the outset, might have been a leading indicator of the unraveling to come.

 

[theprestige]

Mocking neurodivergent people is generally considered pretty scummy, yes.

"Your mental disorder isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility."

Neurodivergence doesn't mean immunity to consequences for the choices you make. It doesn't indemnify you from ridicule, if you choose to do ridiculous things.

I don't make fun of paranoid schizophrenics because of their absurd paranoia. From what I understand, they don't have much of a choice. I have sympathy for people who struggle to stay on their mental health meds, when it means a significant downgrade in their life experience.

I even have a lot of compassion for pedophiles, and I really wish our society was more tolerant and supportive of people who suffer from the condition. But what I have zero tolerance for is pedophiles who choose to indulge their perversion, rather practice abstinence and seek treatment. And if they choose to beclown themselves in their advocacy for normalizing their perversion, then I will certainly point at them and laugh. Likewise those who choose to beclown themselves in their advocacy of fiat self-ID.

Gender dysphoria is a mental health issue. Immodesty is a choice. Womanface is a choice. Maybe mocking people for their bad choices is unkind. "Slut shaming", and all that. But you can't hide behind your neurodivergence, to avoid criticism of your choices. Unless they aren't choices. Unless you're so deranged that - like the paranoid schizophrenic - you have no real control over how you're thinking and what you're doing.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't remember when the thread actually started, except I'm pretty sure it was after September 2017, which is when I first woke up to what was going on. Previously I had regarded people talking about Andy Murray and Roger Federer winning the women's doubles at Wimbledon (as an example of what could happen under self-ID) as so much hysterical hyperbole. Then I saw the film of Maria McLaughlan (Skepticat, wife of Le Canard Noir I think) being assaulted by "Tara Wolfe" in Hyde Park, and read the story of what happened, and revised my thinking rather suddenly. Subsequent events cemented my view that something was very far wrong.

Wolfe was found guilty of assault, but only because there was clear video of it - the police seemed reluctant to charge him. He lied in his teeth that Maria was the aggressor, but the footage proved she wasn't. He had been wearing typical female clothes of jeans and a hoodie at the time of the assault, but showed up in court in very feminine clothes with long blond hair and makeup. The judge insisted that Maria refer to him as "she" throughout, which Maria found very difficult to do, as she was describing an assault by a person she had very definitely clocked as a man at the time. She slipped up a few times, and the judge said that he wouldn't award her any criminal injuries compensation as a punishment for being so disrespectful to her attacker. This all felt very off to me.

By the time this thread started I was very much opposed to "preferred pronouns" and found the early pages very difficult because it seemed as if the issue under discussion had been pre-judged by the enforcing of wrong-sex pronouns on the grounds of politeness, and that everyone seemed to be free to call me a bigot with no penalty, because, as I was repeatedly told, you are a bigot so it's simply the truth.

I think I have grown a thicker skin since then.

 

[theprestige]

Then I saw the film of Maria McLaughlan (Skepticat, wife of Le Canard Noir I think) being assaulted by "Tara Wolfe" in Hyde Park, and read the story of what happened, and revised my thinking rather suddenly. Subsequent events cemented my view that something was very far wrong.

Wolfe was found guilty of assault, but only because there was clear video of it - the police seemed reluctant to charge him. He lied in his teeth that Maria was the aggressor, but the footage proved she wasn't. He had been wearing typical female clothes of jeans and a hoodie at the time of the assault, but showed up in court in very feminine clothes with long blond hair and makeup. The judge insisted that Maria refer to him as "she" throughout, which Maria found very difficult to do, as she was describing an assault by a person she had very definitely clocked as a man at the time. She slipped up a few times, and the judge said that he wouldn't award her any criminal injuries compensation as a punishment for being so disrespectful to her attacker. This all felt very off to me.

It strikes me as obscene that criminal injuries compensation would be conditioned on the character or attitude of the victim, rather than the facts of the crime.

 

[Rolfe]

Just another cherry I suppose. Insignificant in the context of the total population of the planet.



I mean, honestly, at one level who cares? He chooses to make a complete fool of himself, and post the evidence online, it's his business. On that level, if he wasn't insisting on using women's single-sex facilities (which he certainly is, get real here), I'd just snigger and move on. But on another level this is deeply creepy and a whole forest of red flags. Particularly as there is more than a hint that this is a "diaper fetishist". These men are dressing as what they are sexually attracted to.

I don't care how many Tim "Sarah" McBrides there are who dress like normal people, nothing justifies letting these perverts into women's spaces. And actually, nothing justifies letting McBride in either, because he's still a man, and still very obviously a man. And bullying and entitled with it.

 

[Ziggurat]

]Maybe mocking people for their bad choices is unkind.

It's not even really mockery, it's mostly just criticism. And society has to be able to criticize bad choices. How else do we get people to not make bad choices?

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to make quoted text visible

 

[d4m10n]

Does anyone remember if we covered the Olympus Spa case out of Lynnwood, WA?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858611351901663550

It's sort of nuts that these (relatively rare and obscure) Korean-style spas have become the frontlines in the battle for single-sex spaces in the U.S. and it's sort of nuts that this case doesn't have a higher profile yet. I expect that the Ninth Circuit will rule against the spa, but I'm not nearly so confident of how SCOTUS would rule, should they grant cert.

 

[varwoche]

Never mind the autism/privacy aspect. The problem with these pictures is more basic. Posting these pictures (repeatedly no less) is equally informative as pictures of trans people who look "normal". That is, entirely uninformative, particularly for readers who fancy themselves as critical thinkers.

Appealing to people's base emotions this way is condescending, manipulative, and otherwise uncool.

 

[Hercules56]

Huh, a definite correlation between Autism Spectrum Disorder aka Asperger's Syndrome and gender dysphoria. Hopefully scientists will continue to research this and not be bullied away from it by the haters & misogynists.

 

[Hercules56]

More luscious cherries.

View attachment 60441

Absurd, to the point of delusional, that some people actually want society to call these people "women".

 

[smartcooky]

It strikes me as obscene that criminal injuries compensation would be conditioned on the character or attitude of the victim, rather than the facts of the crime.

That's what you get when the lower levels of the criminal justice system is captured by ideology. Incredibly, it was how British judges were told to behave!!

Transgenderism and policy capture in the criminal justice system - Policy Exchange

Download Publication Online Reader This report addresses the impact of policies and practices within the criminal justice system in England and Wales which classify and treat suspects, defendants in criminal trials, and convicted offenders on the basis of their ‘gender identity’ rather than...

policyexchange.org.uk

​

This report addresses the impact of policies and practices within the criminal justice system in England and Wales which classify and treat suspects, defendants in criminal trials, and convicted offenders on the basis of their ‘gender identity’ rather than their biological sex. In recent years, self-declaration of ‘gender identity’ has been adopted as policy by all of the key criminal justice institutions, despite the fact that this is not aligned with the law. This change appears to have come about largely as the result of policy capture, as it is a widely contested belief and has been adopted without public scrutiny. Current criminal justice policy prioritises the wishes and feelings of those who identify as transgender over the rights of others, and particularly over the sex-based rights of women, such as rights to single-sex facilities. This publication examines the detrimental effects of this approach and makes recommendations about the development of policies which are based on acknowledgment of the significance of biological sex in the field of criminal justice.​

The very case Rolfe is talking about is discussed in the "Guidance to Judges"

Warning: 1.80MB PDF File
https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-co...cy-capture-in-the-criminal-justice-system.pdf
NOTES:
1. The indexing system is incorrect. It says the "Guidance for judges" section is page 27 but its actually page 29
2. There is an Online Reader if you prefer not to download the PDF

That this policy was adopted against the law is a disgrace, and a travesty for women in the UK. Its just another example of the danger that exists when people, organizations and government departments become captured by the Cult of Gender Ideology.

 

[Rolfe]

Never mind the autism/privacy aspect. The problem with these pictures is more basic. Posting these pictures (repeatedly no less) is equally informative as pictures of trans people who look "normal". That is, entirely uninformative, particularly for readers who fancy themselves as critical thinkers.

Appealing to people's base emotions this way is condescending, manipulative, and otherwise uncool.

I disagree. Several posters in this thread constantly refer to trans-identifying men as if they were all something like McBride, or even more like Hayley Cropper. Dressing similarly to women, posing no overt threat, and indeed characterising them as vulnerable and marginalised. Imagining a man who may be mistaken for a woman at first glance and whose main emotion is fear that someone will take exception to his presence. How selfish and bigoted not to agree to welcoming these oppressed souls into your spaces.

The point of posting these pictures is to highlight that there is no distinction between the Hayley Cropper types (if they even exist at all) and the overt sexual perverts who adopt a female persona. Open the door to one, and all may enter.

Absurd, to the point of delusional, that some people actually want society to call these people "women".

Exactly my point. These porn-addled fetishists are what we're being pity-shamed into accepting as "women" just as much as McBride is.

 

[Rolfe]

Does anyone remember if we covered the Olympus Spa case out of Lynnwood, WA?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858611351901663550

It's sort of nuts that these (relatively rare and obscure) Korean-style spas have become the frontlines in the battle for single-sex spaces in the U.S. and it's sort of nuts that this case doesn't have a higher profile yet. I expect that the Ninth Circuit will rule against the spa, but I'm not nearly so confident of how SCOTUS would rule, should they grant cert.

I wasn't aware of that case. I did hear about another similar case where the (female) owners closed their business because the law refused to allow them to exclude men.

Reading that Twitter thread I saw a link to this other case. Further down that thread the man in that case is revealed as insisting on being allowed entry to another similar naked spa, as well as participating in a girls' dancing class and competing in female sports.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856757067769680351

 

[Rolfe]

That's what you get when the lower levels of the criminal justice system is captured by ideology. Incredibly, it was how British judges were told to behave!!

Transgenderism and policy capture in the criminal justice system - Policy Exchange

Download Publication Online Reader This report addresses the impact of policies and practices within the criminal justice system in England and Wales which classify and treat suspects, defendants in criminal trials, and convicted offenders on the basis of their ‘gender identity’ rather than...

policyexchange.org.uk

​

This report addresses the impact of policies and practices within the criminal justice system in England and Wales which classify and treat suspects, defendants in criminal trials, and convicted offenders on the basis of their ‘gender identity’ rather than their biological sex. In recent years, self-declaration of ‘gender identity’ has been adopted as policy by all of the key criminal justice institutions, despite the fact that this is not aligned with the law. This change appears to have come about largely as the result of policy capture, as it is a widely contested belief and has been adopted without public scrutiny. Current criminal justice policy prioritises the wishes and feelings of those who identify as transgender over the rights of others, and particularly over the sex-based rights of women, such as rights to single-sex facilities. This publication examines the detrimental effects of this approach and makes recommendations about the development of policies which are based on acknowledgment of the significance of biological sex in the field of criminal justice.​

The very case Rolfe is talking about is discussed in the "Guidance to Judges"

Warning: 1.80MB PDF File
https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-co...cy-capture-in-the-criminal-justice-system.pdf
NOTES:
1. The indexing system is incorrect. It says the "Guidance for judges" section is page 27 but its actually page 29
2. There is an Online Reader if you prefer not to download the PDF

That this policy was adopted against the law is a disgrace, and a travesty for women in the UK. Its just another example of the danger that exists when people, organizations and government departments become captured by the Cult of Gender Ideology.

I hadn't seen that document. It chimes with what I remember of the Tara Wolfe incident. The two things that shocked me were first that Wolfe was simply a man. A man's body, dressed in clothes that would be unremarkable for a man, and with a man's strength and aggression. Especially in the dark there was nothing at all to hint that he was trying to come across as a woman. It was a complete eye-opener for me. The second was that the criminal justice system seemed to be bending over backwards to be nice to him and be judgemental to Maria, even though he was the assailant and she was the victim. The provable lies told on his behalf were accepted without question, while Maria herself seemed to be on trial for misgendering.

Up till then my main exposure to the trans issue was my friend who had transitioned, and while I felt fairly uncomfortable about it, he was my friend and there was peer pressure to go along with it. Talk about scales falling from the eyes!

 

[d4m10n]

Never mind the autism/privacy aspect. The problem with these pictures is more basic. Posting these pictures (repeatedly no less) is equally informative as pictures of trans people who look "normal". That is, entirely uninformative, particularly for readers who fancy themselves as critical thinkers.

Suppose a specific individual demands access to, say, women's changing rooms at the local clothier.

Should it matter whether that person looks like Blaire White (very passable) or like Agee Merager (very manly)?

 

[d4m10n]

Reading that Twitter thread I saw a link to this other case. Further down that thread the man in that case is revealed as insisting on being allowed entry to another similar naked spa...

Spa World website says "[c]ustomers must report to locker rooms based on the gender stated on their government issued IDs" so it's safe to assume that Suising would be good to go these days.

 

[d4m10n]

One last circle back on the Olympus Spa case; I've never before seen someone bragging about earning the right to expose themselves to women (and girls) who had previously been paying to patronize and sustain a female-only nude space.

◊◊◊◊ be wild, as the kids say.

 

[Rolfe]

Spa World website says "[c]ustomers must report to locker rooms based on the gender stated on their government issued IDs" so it's safe to assume that Suising would be good to go these days.

That is frankly disgusting.

Actually, while Blaire White admits to using women's toilets (he says it's the line of least fuss, and he obviously takes care to draw no attention to himself while he's there) he says he would never use the women's changing room because it would be grossly inappropriate. He gets changed at home and goes to the gym already changed.