Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Bill Williams]

Poor police work and jumping to conclusions does not make this some grand conspiracy.

Absolutely. This is basically what the 2015 acquitting court said. One does not need to postulate some intricate conspiracy when tunnel vision and butt-protection is operative... or as the 2015 acquitting court put it....

4. Meanwhile, it can’t be ignored, on a first summary overview, that the history of these proceedings is characterized by a troubled and intrinsically contradictory path......

On the concern of the murder of Kercher, the declaration of guilt of Knox and Sollecito, in first instance, was followed by a ruling of acquittal from the appeal Court of Assizes of Perugia, consequent to an articulated evidential integration [the Conti-Vecchiotti report, ed.]; the annulment by this Supreme Court, First Criminal Section; and finally the judgment, on appeal, of the Court of assizes of Florence, today considered under a new Cassation appeal.

An objectively wavering process, the oscillations of which are the result of glaring failures or investigative “amnesias” and of culpable omissions in investigating activities, which, had they been carried out, would have, probably, allowed from the start the outline a framework, if not of certainty, at least of reassuring reliability, in direction of either the guilt or the non-involvement of the current appellants.

Such scenario, intrinsically contradictory, constitutes a first, eloquent, representation of an evidential set of anything but “beyond reasonable doubt”.​

In other words, **anything** claimed at the lower court is unknowable. Not because of conspiracy, but because of incompetence, as well as investigative failure and amnesias.

 

[Stacyhs]

That wasn't the issue. The issue was why would a couple of guys only passingly familiar with Mez join in with hazing attack on Knox' roommate, a lovely young woman by all accounts.

Yes, why would any of them want to sexually assault and murder MEREDITH? That is something the prosecution and courts could not establish. Time after time they changed the motive because none of them was supported by any evidence. They ranged from a satanic ritual to jealousy to arguing over rent money to a sex game gone wrong to just being 'evil'. Not a single one was supported by evidence.

You insist that Guede and Knox were friends when not even the prosecution ever claimed that. Why? Because you cannot present a case where a female murder's accomplices were not friends and/or a boyfriend (and certainly not a boyfriend of only a week). Additionally, in every case you've tried to give as an example, the perpetrators had either mental illness and/or criminal backgrounds. Neither of which pertain to Knox or Sollecito.

For goodness sake, Knox and Mez had only been in Perugia a short time, for the start of autumn term. At that age, in a strange place, your new acquaintances quickly become identified as 'friends' and is nothing at all like you introducing yourself to a work colleague in a workplace setting. In any case, your work colleague is hardly a 'complete stranger' once you've been introduced.

Being introduced to someone does not make them any less of a stranger because all you know about them is their name and where they work. Amanda didn't even remember Guede's name, yet you insist they were 'friends'.

Mez was there with numerous English students from Leeds Uni and elsewhere. She likely only just met most of them for the first time, yet she quickly formed a great social circle, going out and having fun. For example on Halloween and then again the next day, she was off to visit her three or four friends for a film (The Note Book) and Pizza. She soon had a handsome Italian boyfriend who went skiing in expensive ski resorts.

Meredith preferred English to Italian friends. Amanda wanted to immerse herself in Italian culture and language not hang out with English speakers. And what the hell does Giacomo "skiing in expensive ski resorts" have to do with anything whatsoever? He was still the guy renting a room with others in a dumpy basement apartment, who ignored MEREDITH in public, and bragged to his buddies about having anal sex with her. Some catch.

What did Knox have?

A wealthy, good-looking Italian with his own apartment, own BMW, a maid, and who treated her with respect and affection in public and in private and who did not discuss their sex life with others.

Loner weirdo incel Sollecito

Wow. That is just pathetic and desperate.

who liked dressing up in sheets and menacingly wielding a scalpel on FaceBook

His friends wrapped him up in toilet paper as a prank. And it was a meat cleaver. At least get the details right. "Menacingly weilding"? LOL!! I'm sooooo scared!

bragging about his drug use.

LOL! It's certain that it's an oversight that you never, ever mention that hair never loses its traces of drugs and that both Raffaele's and Amanda's hair test were negative for any narcotics including cocaine.

His father knew he was flakey as he had to ring his errant wayward son six times a day to check up on him.

So Raffaele is now not only a "loner weirdo incel" who is "menacing" wrapped up in toilet paper, but now he's also "errant and wayward" as he is "studying hard for his finals". Gotcha.

I suggest you refer to Raffaele's phone log, as I did, and note how many times a day Dr. Sollecito "checked up" on his son. Dr. S's last four phone number digits are 5977 and Raffaele's are 4303. You'll find your "six times a day" is more than just a slight exaggeration. How shocking...

Had been caught watching animla pron at school

Sheesh. And all the other boys who were caught watching that video...which was brought by another boy... at the same time? Are they all "loner incel weirdos", too? Hormonal boys of that age will watch almost anything sex related. That doesn't mean they engage in it. Sheesh.

and had attacked a classmate with scissors.

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick! This is the kind of crap you're still repeating these many years later? I have no doubt you know that was investigated and found to be groundless.

So what do we have, Knox spending Halloween alone (a big disappointment for an American) as Sollecito was studying for his exams, and as a Catholic, wasn't that bothered by Halloween as a celebration, Mez studiously avoiding Knox' company for Halloween and having great fun with all her friends. Next afternoon, she's off again! Leaving Knox all alone with weirdo boyfriend and his knife fetish and anime fantasies of killing a vampire as per his latest comic.

What we have above doesn't warrant anything more than

Your arguments simply run along the ridiculous claim that 'no-one called Amanda Knox had ever been convicted for murder of her roommate before', so therefore, she must be innocent!

Amazing. Do you think anyone here doesn't recognize that falsehood for what it is? Really? Stop embarrassing yourself.

And no, Guede was not a 'complete stranger' to Knox. Stop lying to yourself.

They were such good friends that she thought he might be S. African and couldn't even remember his name.. What's next? They were engaged and Amanda was expecting his baby?

 

[Vixen]

Yes, why would any of them want to sexually assault and murder MEREDITH? That is something the prosecution and courts could not establish. Time after time they changed the motive because none of them was supported by any evidence. They ranged from a satanic ritual to jealousy to arguing over rent money to a sex game gone wrong to just being 'evil'. Not a single one was supported by evidence.

You insist that Guede and Knox were friends when not even the prosecution ever claimed that. Why? Because you cannot present a case where a female murder's accomplices were not friends and/or a boyfriend (and certainly not a boyfriend of only a week). Additionally, in every case you've tried to give as an example, the perpetrators had either mental illness and/or criminal backgrounds. Neither of which pertain to Knox or Sollecito.



Being introduced to someone does not make them any less of a stranger because all you know about them is their name and where they work. Amanda didn't even remember Guede's name, yet you insist they were 'friends'.




Meredith preferred English to Italian friends. Amanda wanted to immerse herself in Italian culture and language not hang out with English speakers. And what the hell does Giacomo "skiing in expensive ski resorts" have to do with anything whatsoever? He was still the guy renting a room with others in a dumpy basement apartment, who ignored MEREDITH in public, and bragged to his buddies about having anal sex with her. Some catch.



A wealthy, good-looking Italian with his own apartment, own BMW, a maid, and who treated her with respect and affection in public and in private and who did not discuss their sex life with others.




Wow. That is just pathetic and desperate.



His friends wrapped him up in toilet paper as a prank. And it was a meat cleaver. At least get the details right. "Menacingly weilding"? LOL!! I'm sooooo scared!

[qimg]https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/7166966f1d7602f845.jpg[/qimg]



LOL! It's certain that it's an oversight that you never, ever mention that hair never loses its traces of drugs and that both Raffaele's and Amanda's hair test were negative for any narcotics including cocaine.




So Raffaele is now not only a "loner weirdo incel" who is "menacing" wrapped up in toilet paper, but now he's also "errant and wayward" as he is "studying hard for his finals". Gotcha.

I suggest you refer to Raffaele's phone log, as I did, and note how many times a day Dr. Sollecito "checked up" on his son. Dr. S's last four phone number digits are 5977 and Raffaele's are 4303. You'll find your "six times a day" is more than just a slight exaggeration. How shocking...



Sheesh. And all the other boys who were caught watching that video...which was brought by another boy... at the same time? Are they all "loner incel weirdos", too? Hormonal boys of that age will watch almost anything sex related. That doesn't mean they engage in it. Sheesh.




Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick! This is the kind of crap you're still repeating these many years later? I have no doubt you know that was investigated and found to be groundless.




What we have above doesn't warrant anything more than

[qimg]https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/7166966f1e15e3a6a4.jpg[/qimg]




Amazing. Do you think anyone here doesn't recognize that falsehood for what it is? Really? Stop embarrassing yourself.




They were such good friends that she thought he might be S. African and couldn't even remember his name.. What's next? They were engaged and Amanda was expecting his baby?

 

[Stacyhs]

[qimg]https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/7000160e2de7adfa25.jpg[/qimg]

I stand in awe of your persuasive counterargument.

 

[Bill Williams]

I stand in awe of your persuasive counterargument.

Me, too. Please be on notice, Stacyhs, that based on that post, I have now switched sides.

 

[Stacyhs]

Me, too. Please be on notice, Stacyhs, that based on that post, I have now switched sides.

I can't blame you. It was masterful.

 

[Bill Williams]

While some claim that police and courts have neither the inclination nor motive to pursue a bogus investigation....

Others are being released after decades on death row. Do we really need to prove 'why' police and courts would do this **before** absolving them?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y9x6zrkrro

 

[Stacyhs]

While some claim that police and courts have neither the inclination nor motive to pursue a bogus investigation....

Others are being released after decades on death row. Do we really need to prove 'why' police and courts would do this **before** absolving them?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y9x6zrkrro

From your link:

Hakamada initially denied having robbed and murdered the victims, but later gave what he came to describe as a coerced confession following beatings and interrogations that lasted up to 12 hours a day.

From CBS:

Hakamada proceeded to retract the 'confession' during the trial, alleging that police had threatened and beaten him,"

From Wikipedia:

The vast majority of miscarriage of justice cases, in Japanese capital punishment cases, involve police faking the investigative record to make it appear as if the suspect confessed certain guilty secrets, which only the perpetrator of the crime could have known and it later became apparent that the suspect was being forced to sign a completely blank confession paper which the investigative police filled in for their convenience.

 

[Bill Williams]

Free: My Search for Meaning

Coming in March 2025....

Free: My Search for Meaning, by Amanda Knox

Amanda Knox spent nearly four years in prison and eight years on trial for a murder she didn’t commit—and became a notorious tabloid story in the process. Though she was exonerated, it’s taken more than a decade for her to reclaim her identity and truly feel free.

Free recounts how Knox survived incarceration, the mistakes she made and misadventures she had reintegrating into society, and culminates in the untold story of her return to Italy and the extraordinary relationship she’s built with the man who sent her to prison.​

 

[Stacyhs]

Definitely a read for me.

 

[Stacyhs]

Does anyone know what happened with M. Napoleoni after her conviction in Sept. 2020? I assumed she appealed but I can't find any more information on what happened.

 

[Stacyhs]

Quennell is still claiming that Mignini won his lawsuit against Raffaele and Gumbel. But now, he's also claiming on Youtube that he has a copy of Raffaele's apology to Mignini.

He is even more delusional than I thought

 

[TruthCalls]

Quennell is still claiming that Mignini won his lawsuit against Raffaele and Gumbel. But now, he's also claiming on Youtube that he has a copy of Raffaele's apology to Mignini.

He is even more delusional than I thought

I've learned to never underestimate just how low Quennell can go. Where on YT, and is he offering to produce the document? I refuse to give his rat hole one more click...

 

[Stacyhs]

I've learned to never underestimate just how low Quennell can go. Where on YT, and is he offering to produce the document? I refuse to give his rat hole one more click...

I'll have to look for it. But he's been a busy, busy psycho there lately.

 

[Stacyhs]

I've learned to never underestimate just how low Quennell can go. Where on YT, and is he offering to produce the document? I refuse to give his rat hole one more click...

I've looked for it but can't find it. I did run across this though:

"@peterquennellnyc​

1 month ago
The new calunnia re-conviction is rock-solid, see the 33 page final report. Knox presented zero evidence and was too chicken to get on the stand. Even the ECHR said there was zero evidence of abuse and in fact pre arrest Knox was treated really well - as she confirmed at trial. Only some AMERICAN media were ever manipulated - by the multlmillion Knox PR. The Italian media was 100% fair. The trial was largely watched on tv - except for closed-court sessions (they were the most damning), and the evidence was vast, it went on for week after week, a total of 400 points. The defense were so despondent they were often no-shows at the defense phase of the trial. Check out Rocco Sollecito for how justice was subverted next."
(YT video "Amanda Knox Reconvicted of Slander in Italy")

I think Quennell lives in his own alternate reality.

 

[TruthCalls]

I've looked for it but can't find it. I did run across this though:

"@peterquennellnyc​

1 month ago
The new calunnia re-conviction is rock-solid, see the 33 page final report. Knox presented zero evidence and was too chicken to get on the stand. Even the ECHR said there was zero evidence of abuse and in fact pre arrest Knox was treated really well - as she confirmed at trial. Only some AMERICAN media were ever manipulated - by the multlmillion Knox PR. The Italian media was 100% fair. The trial was largely watched on tv - except for closed-court sessions (they were the most damning), and the evidence was vast, it went on for week after week, a total of 400 points. The defense were so despondent they were often no-shows at the defense phase of the trial. Check out Rocco Sollecito for how justice was subverted next."
(YT video "Amanda Knox Reconvicted of Slander in Italy")

I think Quennell lives in his own alternate reality.

Ya think?!

Thanks. I do believe he will take his obsession to his grave.

 

[TomG]

OOOH! I like the new decor! I think it's PQ embellishing his narratives with his own special blend of fantasy that lets him down; however, when you strip all that away he might just have a point. I'm wondering why Italy decided to recycle the 1st memoriale as evidence when the ECHR judgement viewed it as a retraction. Maybe they are challenging the validity of the ECHR judgement of the 1st memoriale as outwith their jurisdiction in that respect.

CDV should be making it abundantly clear in the appeal that he would NEVER have allowed Amanda to write such a memoriale in the first place had he been promptly assigned to assist Amanda. Italy would then have to argue that it wouldn't have mattered if he had been there or not, Amanda would STILL have written the 1st memoriale. How convincing does that sound?

My concern is the reference to the prison intercept between Edda and Amanda where Amanda does appear to admit culpability in implicating Lumumba. Even if the memoriale is thrown out Italy could still fall back on this as a reason to reconvict Amanda since she had a lawyer (though not in the room) at that time with Donnino having no influence either. The only way out of this as I see it is to argue that the intercepted admission was a reference to events when the human rights violations took place.

The other is the claim that Amanda knew details of the crime before the investigators were aware of it. This is a bit weaker than the interception but still before the violations took place.

So, this could end up being a very close run thing when I originally thought it would have been a forgone conclusion. I'd be very grateful if someone would prove me emphatically wrong at this juncture. Numbers!! Where are you?

 

[Stacyhs]

"I'm wondering why Italy decided to recycle the 1st memoriale as evidence when the ECHR judgement viewed it as a retraction. ."

They used it because the first memoriale is what the prosecution used in 2016 to convict her by using the "And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik" . Of course, they totally ignored the "could" and the rest of it which was actually her declaration that she was "imagining" and that her memories might not be accurate. They carefully cherry-picked that one sentence.

"Maybe they are challenging the validity of the ECHR judgement of the 1st memoriale as outwith their jurisdiction in that respect"

I don't think Italy can challenge the validity of the ECHR. What they did was basically just ignore them.

"My concern is the reference to the prison intercept between Edda and Amanda where Amanda does appear to admit culpability in implicating Lumumba. "


This is what Amanda said, "I feel bad for what I did to Patrick because I… the only reason I said his name was because he was the 1st person that came to mind when I was talking about it, and I imagined I like that I could have seen him, but like I know that’s impossible I just imagined that because I was under a lot of stress "

She didn't admit culpability to making an accusation she knew to be false. She had already explained to the police 4 days earlier in her memoriale the conditions under which she signed the statement and even totally retracted her statement 3 days earlier in the second memoriale. Her conversation with her mother just reiterates what she'd said in her memoriales. It's a retraction.


What I've never understood is why the Nov. 7 memoriale, in which she emphatically says she can't know who killed Meredith because she wasn't there, was not included as evidence for the defense.

"The other is the claim that Amanda knew details of the crime before the investigators were aware of it. This is a bit weaker than the interception but still before the violations took place."

That claim is easily disproved by Luca Altieri's testimony that he told Amanda and Raffaele that he'd overheard the carabinieri officer saying Meredith's throat had been cut while he was driving them to the questura. Amanda didn't know any other details of the crime. She thought Meredith had been found in the wardrobe wrapped in a blanket which we know was not true.

The latest Florence court's reasoning that the first memoriale was not a retraction is so flawed in its logic as to be laughable. I also thought Amanda's acquittal would be the only reasonable conclusion, but I've also learned that logic is often missing in Italian courts. That is supported by Massei declaring that Amanda was outside Raffaele's apartment when she received Lumumba's text because the cell tower (Via dell'Aquila 5-Torre dell Acquedotto sector 3) didn't cover his apartment after repeatedly stating that the cell tower did cover it.

 

[TomG]

The point I was trying to make is that Italy might be trying to challenge the ECHR's authority to evaluate the 1st memoriale as a retraction since it has nothing to do with human rights and therefore the territory of the Italian courts. I didn't mean they could challenge the ECHR decision in it's totality. Their appeal failed in that respect so maybe any notion of challenging the conclusion of retraction goes with it.

Yes, it looks like Italy can no longer anchor their use of the intercepted conversation in the events of the interrogation since they enmired in abuses but they think they can anchor the event to the 1st memoriale. The trouble with that is if the 1st memoriale is not acceptable either by the supreme court or the ECHR then the intercepted conversation as evidence must go out with it as I see it.

That leaves us with the flimsy notion that she knew details of the crime before the cops. I think they are referring to the sexual nature of the crime, but what else are they going to conclude if the cops are filming the scene where Meredith's underwear are strewn all over the place and she is lying semi-naked under the duvet? I don't see how that can provide a foundation for calunnia.

I now fail to see how the ECHR could close the case on this if the supreme court decided to run with it.

 

[Stacyhs]

Perhaps I've overlooked it somewhere, but I can find no evidence that Amanda knew any details of the murder except for her throat being cut which Altieri's testimony explains. None of the people at the questura the night/morning of Nov. 2-3 testified she mentioned any sexual assault/rape.

"LAWYER - Listen, miss, while you were in the offices of the police station, did you hear from anyone present, especially Miss Amanda that poor Meredith had sex before being killed or had otherwise had a sexual relationship?
" Amy Frost - No. "

LAWYER - All right, we take it for granted. While you were in the offices, did you hear from anyone present and especially from Miss Amanda that poor Meredith had had a sexual relationship before being killed?

Sophie Purton - No, I don’t remember Amanda saying that."

"LAWYER - In that circumstance you heard from someone present and especially from Miss Amanda that poor Meredith before being killed had had sex or otherwise had sex?

Nathalie Hayward- No, never. "

She makes no mention of a sexual assault in her Nov. 4 email nor in either of her two memoriales.

I highly suspect this claim is based solely on her signed interrogation statements of Nov. 6. Of course, Ficarra denies that she or another officer suggested or said that Patrick had sex with Meredith, but since they didn't bother to record or even keep a transcript of what was said, we have only her say-so on that. Frankly, I don't put much stock in her veracity as admitting to that would have opened up both statements being thrown out...as would admitting she cuffed Amanda.

 

[TomG]

Amanda's 4th November email excerpt:

I have to get this off my chest because it's pressing down on me and it helps to know that someone besides me knows something, and that I'm not the one who knows the most out of everyone, at the house, they asked me very personal questions about Meredith's life and also about the personalities of our neighbours, how well did I know them? pretty well, we are friends. Whas Meredith sexually active? yeah, she borrowed a few of my condoms, does she like anal? wtf?, I don't know, does she use vaseline? for her lips? what kind of person is Stefano? nice guy, has a really pretty girlfriend, hmmm....very interesting....weid [sic] like to know how you something, and tell us if this is out of the normal"

November 4th (Karen Pruett)

"Amanda complains of the number of times she has been called in to answer the same questions repeatedly and of Mignini’s uncultivated fixation on “anal sex” and “Vaseline.” Laura later testified that it was the first time she heard about Vaseline, but all agree that it is invasive to ask Amanda about that subject and feel that the prosecutor should be questioning Giacomo Silenzi."

6:00 a.m. Two days before the arrest of Amanda, Raffaele, and Patrick, the media begins reporting two more keystones in the prosecution’s theory: “Sex Game Gone Wrong” and “Multiple Attackers.” La Repubblica reports that Perugia Police Chief Arturo De Felice said that “all investigative tools, strengths, and skills have been put in place to arrive early to the solution.” He admits that “forensic scientists have confirmed that the girl has had sex before her death,” plus “investigators do not rule out that there may have been two involved in the violent attack on the girl.” He also states: “Meredith has struggled with the murderers – or killers – which would have forced her to have sex.”

(Pruett, Karen. Trial By Liar: Meredith Kercher Rudy Guede Amanda Knox Raffaele Sollecito (p. 258). Kindle Edition.)

It looks to me that it was the cops themselves and Mignini in particular that were proactive with the sexual aspect and sex game gone wrong theory well before the arrests. It also looks to me that the cops were trying to place Amanda in Meredith's room via the vaseline tin found on Meredith's table.

 

[Stacyhs]

Amanda's 4th November email excerpt:

I have to get this off my chest because it's pressing down on me and it helps to know that someone besides me knows something, and that I'm not the one who knows the most out of everyone, at the house, they asked me very personal questions about Meredith's life and also about the personalities of our neighbours, how well did I know them? pretty well, we are friends. Whas Meredith sexually active? yeah, she borrowed a few of my condoms, does she like anal? wtf?, I don't know, does she use vaseline? for her lips? what kind of person is Stefano? nice guy, has a really pretty girlfriend, hmmm....very interesting....weid [sic] like to know how you something, and tell us if this is out of the normal"

November 4th (Karen Pruett)

"Amanda complains of the number of times she has been called in to answer the same questions repeatedly and of Mignini’s uncultivated fixation on “anal sex” and “Vaseline.” Laura later testified that it was the first time she heard about Vaseline, but all agree that it is invasive to ask Amanda about that subject and feel that the prosecutor should be questioning Giacomo Silenzi."

6:00 a.m. Two days before the arrest of Amanda, Raffaele, and Patrick, the media begins reporting two more keystones in the prosecution’s theory: “Sex Game Gone Wrong” and “Multiple Attackers.” La Repubblica reports that Perugia Police Chief Arturo De Felice said that “all investigative tools, strengths, and skills have been put in place to arrive early to the solution.” He admits that “forensic scientists have confirmed that the girl has had sex before her death,” plus “investigators do not rule out that there may have been two involved in the violent attack on the girl.” He also states: “Meredith has struggled with the murderers – or killers – which would have forced her to have sex.”

(Pruett, Karen. Trial By Liar: Meredith Kercher Rudy Guede Amanda Knox Raffaele Sollecito (p. 258). Kindle Edition.)

It looks to me that it was the cops themselves and Mignini in particular that were proactive with the sexual aspect and sex game gone wrong theory well before the arrests. It also looks to me that the cops were trying to place Amanda in Meredith's room via the vaseline tin found on Meredith's table.

So both the claims that she knew details (cut throat, sexually assaulted) before even the police are debunked. Additional evidence of this:

"Signs of sexual assault on Meredith Kercher
SLAUGHTERED IN PERUGIA

Perugia, November 4, 2007 - Even though there will be 60 days to get the results, the autopsy has already provided the first confirmation of the investigative hypotheses. Meredith Kercher , 23 years old in December, was first raped and then killed with a shot to the throat"
(Quotidiano Nazionale)

"Girl's throat slit, perhaps raped first
Signs found on the body suggest a fight. Investigations into two cell phones
PERUGIA - The 22-year-old English student,Meredith Kercher, killed in her bedroom, in a farmhouse on Viale Sant'Antonio near the historic center of Perugia, may have had sexual intercourse the night of the murder.
(Cronache, Nov. 3, 2007)

"Meredith Kercher was first raped and then killed with a shot to the throat.
These are the first results of the necropsy examination conducted on the body of the English student, in Italy for a study program, on the night between Thursday and Friday."
(La Repubblica, Nov. 4, 2007)

 

[Stacyhs]

It also looks to me that the cops were trying to place Amanda in Meredith's room via the vaseline tin found on Meredith's table.

I have to disagree that they were trying to place Amanda in Meredith's room unless they asked her if the tin of Vaseline belonged to her. I don't see anywhere that they did.

 

[Stacyhs]

Another year...17 now...since Rudy Guede killed and assaulted poor Meredith and Amanda's and Raffaele's ordeal began.

Still no updates on Guede's rape investigation and I can find info on what happened to Napoleoni and Zugarini after their convictions.

 

[Numbers]

The point I was trying to make is that
Italy might be trying to challenge the ECHR's authority to evaluate the 1st memoriale as a retraction since it has nothing to do with human rights and therefore the territory of the Italian courts. I didn't mean they could challenge the ECHR decision in it's totality. Their appeal failed in that respect so maybe any notion of challenging the conclusion of retraction goes with it.

Yes, it looks like Italy can no longer anchor their use of the intercepted conversation in the events of the interrogation since they enmired in abuses but they think they can anchor the event to the 1st memoriale. The trouble with that is if the 1st memoriale is not acceptable either by the supreme court or the ECHR then the intercepted conversation as evidence must go out with it as I see it.

That leaves us with the flimsy notion that she knew details of the crime before the cops. I think they are referring to the sexual nature of the crime, but what else are they going to conclude if the cops are filming the scene where Meredith's underwear are strewn all over the place and she is lying semi-naked under the duvet? I don't see how that can provide a foundation for calunnia.

I now fail to see how the ECHR could close the case on this if the supreme court decided to run with it.

I believe that you are inferring too much into
Italy's motives regarding the ECHR.

A few points: 1) the Italian government is the body directly responsible to the ECHR and must carry out its final judgments; 2) the Italian courts act almost entirely independently of the Italian government; 3) the Italian courts tend to be conservative and protect the police and prosecutors; 4) the Italian courts tend to protect their prior decisions and to resist outside (for example, ECHR) judgments, even when binding upon Italy; 5) eventually the Italian government and judicial system find ways to conform to ECHR judgments.

 

[Numbers]

Two items of interest:

1. The mayor of Perugia has apologized to the residents of her city for "the hurt caused by" the presence of a Hulu production crew in Perugia. The crew is working on a documentary series on the Meredith Kercher murder/rape case, no doubt emphasizing the wrongful arrest and conviction of Knox and Sollecito. The executive producers of the Hulu series are Amanda Knox and Monica Lewinsky.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/12/world/europe/amanda-knox-perugia-italy.html/

2. The Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe recently (9 September 2024) closed an ECHR case, Abenavoli v. Italy, that had been lodged in 1994, whose final judgment date was 2 September 1997. The violation in the case (and about 100 related cases) was the excessive length of judicial proceedings in administrative cases. This demonstrates that Italy is committed to resolving ECHR final judgments against it; it does, however, sometimes take some length of time.

HUDOC-EXEC

hudoc.exec.coe.int

Italy: Committee of Ministers ends its supervision of a case concerning the excessive length of administrative proceedings

25 September 2024

www.coe.int

 

[Stacyhs]

The NYT link above is behind a paywall but this one is not.

Hulu’s Amanda Knox Series Sparks Local Uproar as Filming Gets Underway in Perugia

Local residents in the Italian city of Perugia, where student Meredith Kercher was found murdered in 2007, displayed banners reading "Rispetto per Meredith" (respect for Meredith).

www.hollywoodreporter.com

My immediate reaction was "tough ****". So they don't like some scenes, probably exterior shots, being filmed there. Too bad. The fact is that Perugia is where the murder took place. IMO, this has nothing to do with "respect for Meredith"; that's just virtue signaling by people who hate Amanda because they think she's guilty and are pissed off at the acquittal. Where was the outcry from documentaries being filmed there by the BBC?

 

[Numbers]

A more extensive report on the production in Perugia is available in this Italian media source:

Cosa ci fa Amanda Knox a Perugia? Il progetto e le polemiche in città

La protagonista di uno dei casi di cronaca più chiacchierati degli ultimi anni vuole girare una nuova serie

www.wired.it

Only five exterior scenes were filmed in Perugia, all with the consent of Perugia's mayor, who stated that there was a contract between the production and the city to conduct the filming in Perugia. The mayor's goal was to show the "beauty" of Perugia:

a place of life and desire where young people come to dream

(Google translation)

 

[Stacyhs]

Your link doesn't work.

 

[Numbers]

Your link doesn't work.

I committed a typo in copying the url. I fixed it in the original. Here is again:

Cosa ci fa Amanda Knox a Perugia? Il progetto e le polemiche in città

La protagonista di uno dei casi di cronaca più chiacchierati degli ultimi anni vuole girare una nuova serie

www.wired.it

 

[Numbers]

In a June 7, 2024 interview with Sky News Italia, Amanda Knox was quoted as saying:

I didn’t slander Patrick; I didn’t kill my friend. I will come back here {to Italy} as many times as I have to fight against this injustice.

The article also states that she said the verdict re-convicting her of calunnia surprised her because one of the key documents in the case clearly states that she did not know who murdered Kercher.

Tearful Amanda Knox says she is 'a victim' and vows to fight slander re-conviction

“I have been unjustly accused for 17 years,” Knox said in an interview Thursday. She added that she will appeal the verdict by the Italian court.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[LondonJohn]

The NYT link above is behind a paywall but this one is not.

Hulu’s Amanda Knox Series Sparks Local Uproar as Filming Gets Underway in Perugia

Local residents in the Italian city of Perugia, where student Meredith Kercher was found murdered in 2007, displayed banners reading "Rispetto per Meredith" (respect for Meredith).

www.hollywoodreporter.com

My immediate reaction was "tough ****". So they don't like some scenes, probably exterior shots, being filmed there. Too bad. The fact is that Perugia is where the murder took place. IMO, this has nothing to do with "respect for Meredith"; that's just virtue signaling by people who hate Amanda because they think she's guilty and are pissed off at the acquittal. Where was the outcry from documentaries being filmed there by the BBC?

The ballerina-botherer may well spontaneously self-combust either on hearing the news about the filming or on watching the programme itself....

 

[LondonJohn]

Ohhhh - just had a check on the cesspit, and discovered this zinger of a headline from two days ago:

"Amanda Knox Said To Be Almost Certain To Face Murder Retrial Now"​

TJMK

​

 

[TomG]

PQ said the same thing on YouTube 2 years ago.

 

[Stacyhs]

I committed a typo in copying the url. I fixed it in the original. Here is again:

Cosa ci fa Amanda Knox a Perugia? Il progetto e le polemiche in città

La protagonista di uno dei casi di cronaca più chiacchierati degli ultimi anni vuole girare una nuova serie

www.wired.it

Thanks. Interesting read. I read that they filmed partly in Orvieto which has a gorgeous cathedral. I found it second in beauty only to Florence's Santa Maria del Fiori. Here's a photo I took in 2019:

 

[Stacyhs]

Ohhhh - just had a check on the cesspit, and discovered this zinger of a headline from two days ago:

"Amanda Knox Said To Be Almost Certain To Face Murder Retrial Now"​

TJMK

​

So Disney-Hulu is now associated with the mafia, too? What next? The Cartoon Network is part of the mafia? Pete is still pushing the "Rocco Sollecito mafia connection", I see. That man is unbalanced and anyone still associating him/herself with him or his sick website is just as unbalanced.

"Headsup: Disney's Hulu - mafia tool?! First warning already sent to the Knox series production team about the hoaxes and mafia connections. The Daily Beast's badly duped Grace Harrington calls it "the true story of Knox’s wrongful conviction of the murder of her roommate". Harrington should google "rocco sollecito" for why Italians hesitate to talk freely."

I love that Knox's production team has been "warned"! I'm sure they'll give it all the consideration it's due. Which is absolutely none.

For a good laugh, this is one of the comments left under Pete's article:

"Already Knox and Lewinski had a problem finding an actress who would want to play the lead in what could be an example of ‘son of Sam’ proceeds of crime profiteering. "

Margaret Qualley left due to "scheduling conflicts" but the commenter jumps right to a ridiculous claim. Since Amanda and Raffaele have been definitively acquitted, the "Son of Sam" rule does not apply.

"With the advance of ever more sophisticated forensic testing neither of them are exempt in being retried should such new evidence come up trumps (no pun intended). It happened in England in a case where the guy was acquitted but then decades later fibres from his clothing was matched to one of his murder victims and he was retried and convicted. "

Hate springs eternal for some.

"Knox and Sollecito cannot hide behind the legal concept of ‘double jeopardy’ in Europe, where you cannot be tried again once acquitted."

Love the use of the word "hide". I don't see them hiding anywhere.

"If you recall, the reasoning for the annulment was ‘Insufficient Evidence’. This could situation could change at any time."

What I recall is that they were acquitted for "not having committed the fact" under Art. 520, para. 2 which reads:

"The judge pronounces a sentence of acquittal even when there is no, insufficient or contradictory evidence that the fact occurred, that the accused committed it, that the fact constitutes a crime or that the crime was committed by an indictable person."

It's so predictable that the pro-guilters conveniently forget that "NO" evidence part which is included in the absolution. /s
According to the Italian legal website "La Legge per Tutti" (The Law for Everyone):

"How does absolution work for not committing the fact?
The acquittal for not having committed the fact is pronounced by the judge whenever the crime has been committed, but not by the accused.
This is the case, for example, of the classic "exchange of persons", in which one subject is wrongly accused instead of another.
In conclusion: the acquittal for not having committed the fact completely exonerates the accused, who has nothing to do with the crime being tried."
Precisely because this type of absolution enshrines the total innocence of the accused from all guilt, it is said that it falls within the hypothesis of "absolution with full formula". "

Therefore, under Italian law, Knox and Sollecito were found to be legally "innocent", not just "not guilty".

 

[Stacyhs]

On the first page of this current thread, I'm quote as saying "Yeah, and Francesco attended his dear brother's memorial as evidenced by the photo of him coming out of the church!" and a link to the photo is given but it fails. Does anyone remember where is the photo that TJMK posted as claiming the church Francesco was "coming out of" ? I think TJMK may have deleted their little montage of "proof" photos after I proved it wasn't a church and was taken in another city years before Rocco Sollecito died.

 

[Numbers]

So Disney-Hulu is now associated with the mafia, too? What next? The Cartoon Network is part of the mafia? Pete is still pushing the "Rocco Sollecito mafia connection", I see. That man is unbalanced and anyone still associating him/herself with him or his sick website is just as unbalanced.

"Headsup: Disney's Hulu - mafia tool?! First warning already sent to the Knox series production team about the hoaxes and mafia connections. The Daily Beast's badly duped Grace Harrington calls it "the true story of Knox’s wrongful conviction of the murder of her roommate". Harrington should google "rocco sollecito" for why Italians hesitate to talk freely."

I love that Knox's production team has been "warned"! I'm sure they'll give it all the consideration it's due. Which is absolutely none.

For a good laugh, this is one of the comments left under Pete's article:

"Already Knox and Lewinski had a problem finding an actress who would want to play the lead in what could be an example of ‘son of Sam’ proceeds of crime profiteering. "

Margaret Qualley left due to "scheduling conflicts" but the commenter jumps right to a ridiculous claim. Since Amanda and Raffaele have been definitively acquitted, the "Son of Sam" rule does not apply.

"With the advance of ever more sophisticated forensic testing neither of them are exempt in being retried should such new evidence come up trumps (no pun intended). It happened in England in a case where the guy was acquitted but then decades later fibres from his clothing was matched to one of his murder victims and he was retried and convicted. "

Hate springs eternal for some.

"Knox and Sollecito cannot hide behind the legal concept of ‘double jeopardy’ in Europe, where you cannot be tried again once acquitted."

Love the use of the word "hide". I don't see them hiding anywhere.

"If you recall, the reasoning for the annulment was ‘Insufficient Evidence’. This could situation could change at any time."

What I recall is that they were acquitted for "not having committed the fact" under Art. 520, para. 2 which reads:

"The judge pronounces a sentence of acquittal even when there is no, insufficient or contradictory evidence that the fact occurred, that the accused committed it, that the fact constitutes a crime or that the crime was committed by an indictable person."

It's so predictable that the pro-guilters conveniently forget that "NO" evidence part which is included in the absolution. /s
According to the Italian legal website "La Legge per Tutti" (The Law for Everyone):

"How does absolution work for not committing the fact?
The acquittal for not having committed the fact is pronounced by the judge whenever the crime has been committed, but not by the accused.
This is the case, for example, of the classic "exchange of persons", in which one subject is wrongly accused instead of another.
In conclusion: the acquittal for not having committed the fact completely exonerates the accused, who has nothing to do with the crime being tried."
Precisely because this type of absolution enshrines the total innocence of the accused from all guilt, it is said that it falls within the hypothesi=s of "absolution with full formula". "

Therefore, under Italian law, Knox and Sollecito were found to be legally "innocent", not just "not guilty".e

There is absolutely no legal mechanism in Italian criminal procedural law (CPP) that allows anyone who has been finally acquitted under CPP Article 520 (either paragraph 1 or 2) to be retried for the same alleged criminal conduct, even if the conduct is given a different legal definition, circumstances, or stage of the alleged offense (that is, by bringing charges under even a different provision of the Italian Criminal Code). The procedural law forbidding such double jeopardy prosecution is CPP Article 649.

So the assertion by anyone - that includes any guilter - that Knox and/or Sollecito will be retried for the murder/rape of Kercher is nonsensical.

Events that will happen, perhaps in 2025, are 1) the consideration by the CSC of Knox's appeal of the 2024 provisional conviction for calunnia against Lumumba and 2) the judgment by the ECHR of the case Sollecito v. Italy.

 

[Vixen]

On the first page of this current thread, I'm quote as saying "Yeah, and Francesco attended his dear brother's memorial as evidenced by the photo of him coming out of the church!" and a link to the photo is given but it fails. Does anyone remember where is the photo that TJMK posted as claiming the church Francesco was "coming out of" ? I think TJMK may have deleted their little montage of "proof" photos after I proved it wasn't a church and was taken in another city years before Rocco Sollecito died.

Here is the Matrice di Grumo Matrice Appula Church from wikimedia. Note the doors.




Note Mr Francesco Sollecito, father of Raffaele, who also comes from Puglia (Bari) at the church door on the date the news of Rocco's private mass service took place.



Source: Perugia Murder File

From La Stampa 26 Dec 2016

The mass was organized on Dec.27 at 6.30 pm in Grumo Appula. Rocco Sollecito, a leading exponent of Italian organized crime in Canada, was killed by gunfire on May 28 in Montreal while driving his white BMW. His killing represented a new blow to one of the mafia families of the Rizzuto clan, considered by investigators among the most powerful in Canada.



Bari's police commissioner, Carmine Esposito, addressed the mass issue and for reasons of public security and order decided to move up the religious rite at 6 am The mass shall be held strictly private, he decided.

Last June Bari's police commissioner b

As you may recall Rocco Sollecito, head of mafia in Montreal was assassinated in his car in the previous May.

anned Sollecito's funeral in grand style. Father Michele delle Foglie did not agree to the ban.

 

[Methos]

Interesting, but the picture from PMF you claim

Note Mr Francesco Sollecito, father of Raffaele, who also comes from Puglia (Bari) at the church door on the date the news of Rocco's private mass service took place.

actually shows dottore Sollecito leaving the courthouse in Perugia on "10 novembre 2007". The source for the picture is either this article:
«Papà mi devi credere, sono innocente» or this one: «Il coltello? Ognuno ha i suoi hobby» from the "Corriere della Sera"