Cont: The thread for stupidity from GQP politicians who don't have their own thread Part II

Norman Alexander said:
They are just like every TV evangelist - publicly decrying specific criminal behaviours that they themselves secretly revel in. They genuinely hate themselves. And it's getting all predictably the same with the GOP as well.
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It is strange how eager many of them are to call LGBTQ+ people paedophiles. Of course a lot of it is the good old MAGA cruelty, but what with the 'every accusation is a confession' thing that's all but a law of nature at this point, it really does make you wonder what many of them are hiding.
 
Norman Alexander said:
They are just like every TV evangelist - publicly decrying specific criminal behaviours that they themselves secretly revel in. They genuinely hate themselves. And it's getting all predictably the same with the GOP as well.
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I've been thinking about this. And I think it's like a collision between Calvinism and Prosperity Theology. Via Calvin, they know that everybody, including them, is irredeemably sinful and that it is only through God's Grace that they are saved. Via Prosperity, they know that faith and piety draw material and spiritual rewards. So the more heinous the sin, the louder and more public must be the praise for God and all his works.

I don't know in which direction this flows. Whether the worst sinners become the loudest evangelicals to offset their sins, or whether the loudness of the evangelism gives them permission to indulge in the worst sins. That's an open question.
 
arthwollipot said:
I've been thinking about this. And I think it's like a collision between Calvinism and Prosperity Theology. Via Calvin, they know that everybody, including them, is irredeemably sinful and that it is only through God's Grace that they are saved. Via Prosperity, they know that faith and piety draw material and spiritual rewards. So the more heinous the sin, the louder and more public must be the praise for God and all his works.

I don't know in which direction this flows. Whether the worst sinners become the loudest evangelicals to offset their sins, or whether the loudness of the evangelism gives them permission to indulge in the worst sins. That's an open question.
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Personally, I tend to favor ditching that framing entirely. Better to invoke more normal psychological and personality factors. For example, power involves a bunch of temptation. That means that those who want to be able to abuse the power in question tend to be one of notable groups that seek to grasp it. Personality-wise, when it comes to televangelists, that's a particularly attractive profession for greedy conmen. Being conmen, of course, there tends to be contempt for their victims as part of the psychological mechanisms for why it's okay to cheat and deceive them. That contempt influences their private behavior, of course.
 
Aridas said:
Personally, I tend to favor ditching that framing entirely. Better to invoke more normal psychological and personality factors. For example, power involves a bunch of temptation. That means that those who want to be able to abuse the power in question tend to be one of notable groups that seek to grasp it. Personality-wise, when it comes to televangelists, that's a particularly attractive profession for greedy conmen. Being conmen, of course, there tends to be contempt for their victims as part of the psychological mechanisms for why it's okay to cheat and deceive them. That contempt influences their private behavior, of course.
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I am, indeed, giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are actual true believers rather than deliberately fraudulent con artists. I'm sure there are some of those. I'm also sure that some who started as deliberate fraud came to believe in their own schtick - having read Bare Faced Messiah by Russell Miller, I believe that is what happened to L. Ron Hubbard (who I believe was also an undiagnosed and untreated schizophrenic).

What I'm saying is that if you take a particularly twisted set of theologies, you can see how some people might be able to rationalise and excuse their bad behaviour.
 
arthwollipot said:
I am, indeed, giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are actual true believers rather than deliberately fraudulent con artists. I'm sure there are some of those. I'm also sure that some who started as deliberate fraud came to believe in their own schtick - having read Bare Faced Messiah by Russell Miller, I believe that is what happened to L. Ron Hubbard (who I believe was also an undiagnosed and untreated schizophrenic).
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Generally speaking, engaging in a persona and losing oneself in it is entirely plausible and fairly certainly happens. Yet... I'm not sure why you would give that particular benefit of the doubt to offenders like this who directly violate what they preach. It's possible, but I see little reason or justification for assuming it to be the case. Assuming it to be the case in a situation like this suggests that the one assuming doesn't really care about reason, just supporting other some preferred thing. Also, just because people are "true believers" doesn't mean that their psychology necessarily works meaningfully differently.

arthwollipot said:
What I'm saying is that if you take a particularly twisted set of theologies, you can see how some people might be able to rationalise and excuse their bad behaviour.
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Sure. People can latch onto all kinds of perversions of principles to rationalize some preferred conclusion, though. The evidence that it's happening here is what, though?

Anyways, I was reminded of this thread in relation to -

Republican Sexual Predators, Abusers, and Enablers Pt. 56

This is the 56th installment in the list of Republican sexual predators, abusers, and enablers who contribute to rape culture. These are people who abused their power or defended the abuse of power. These are not folks caught in consensual scandals such as being gay, having an affair, being polyamorous, inviting multiple sex partners into their marriage, or soliciting adult sex workers, unless they are trafficked against their will. This is a list of predators or those who enable them, not a list of hypocrites.
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Numbers 1376 to 1400 there. One that's a bit similar to the case that was under discussion is -

1383 John Giarrusso III., a New Hampshire police officer, has been charged with possession and distribution of child sexual abuse material. He has presented himself as an advocate for children on social media.
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dirtywick said:
www.newsweek.com

Republican Senator tells House not to vote on bill she just voted for

Sen. Lisa Murkowski backs Trump's megabill but urges House to return it for fixes, citing Medicaid cuts and tax impacts on Alaska.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

lisa murkowski (remember her?) asks house to vote no on bring back beautiful or whatever bill she voted yes on
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Now it gets interesting as I have heard that MTG shoved the anti-trans stuff back into the bill that the Byrd Bath had removed. Doesn't this mean it would need to go back to the Senate if this added-version passes? Wonder how Murkowski will find a way to vote for it again after all this.
 
I think I've come up with a reasonable Theory of Why They Are Like That.

Once you realise that they believe that God rewards piety with material wealth, it explains a lot about how they can be the way they are without being cynical deliberate fraudsters. Of course, the toxic result of this belief is that if you're poor, then you're just not being holy enough.

(That being said, I'm absolutely sure that at least some of them are cynical deliberate fraudsters. It's hard to give the benefit of the doubt to Popoff, eg.)

Combine that with the pseudo-Calvinistic doctrine that everybody - including them - is an irredeemable sinner saved only by God's grace, and you can see how someone who starts genuinely believing that they are being pious and holy starts to realise that they are getting more and more successful, and they become drunk on their own holiness. Their sinful lifestyle is only supported by their absolute knowledge that they are simply being rewarded by God for being so very damn pious.

Also, there's the belief that is as far as I can tell pretty unique to the Pentecostals that they are engaged in a constant war with the forces and influence of Satan. So anyone who speaks out against them is Satanic and certainly possessed by demons. Any critic is an enemy combatant in this spiritual war. Nothing they say can be trusted - their purpose is nothing less than to destroy God's kingdom.

Anyway, thank you for coming to my TED talk.
 
Helen said:
Wow. Really? Now I'm concerned, is she ill, do you think?
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The old complaint about her is that, while she's perhaps the Republican that's most likely to break ranks with the rest of them, it's never a vote that actually changes anything, just as it didn't change things here. That, combined with the hollowness of her "concern," suggests a rather different game being played than what she purports.
 
Yes, the cynic in me wonders if Collins waited until she was sure someone else would break the tie, but still she got on record as not voting for the bill, which is a little better than nothing at all in these petty and vindictive times. Not much, but a little.
 
arthwollipot said:
I think I've come up with a reasonable Theory of Why They Are Like That.

Once you realise that they believe that God rewards piety with material wealth, it explains a lot about how they can be the way they are without being cynical deliberate fraudsters. Of course, the toxic result of this belief is that if you're poor, then you're just not being holy enough.

(That being said, I'm absolutely sure that at least some of them are cynical deliberate fraudsters. It's hard to give the benefit of the doubt to Popoff, eg.)

Combine that with the pseudo-Calvinistic doctrine that everybody - including them - is an irredeemable sinner saved only by God's grace, and you can see how someone who starts genuinely believing that they are being pious and holy starts to realise that they are getting more and more successful, and they become drunk on their own holiness. Their sinful lifestyle is only supported by their absolute knowledge that they are simply being rewarded by God for being so very damn pious.

Also, there's the belief that is as far as I can tell pretty unique to the Pentecostals that they are engaged in a constant war with the forces and influence of Satan. So anyone who speaks out against them is Satanic and certainly possessed by demons. Any critic is an enemy combatant in this spiritual war. Nothing they say can be trusted - their purpose is nothing less than to destroy God's kingdom.

Anyway, thank you for coming to my TED talk.
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It would make more sense if the Bible did not specifically tell them repeatedly that the Faith=Material Wealth idea was a load of dingo's kidneys...
 
plus the checks don’t have gods name on them. they know where they money is coming from and what the terms are.
 
Random said:
It would make more sense if the Bible did not specifically tell them repeatedly that the Faith=Material Wealth idea was a load of dingo's kidneys...
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They see the Bible as being like a Chinese menu, you know, one from Column A, two from Column B. They ignore all the crap about the poor, the sick, the imprisoned, the hungry, etc. etc. etc. They love the stuff about having lots of babies and killing anyone you don't like.
 
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shemp said:
They see the Bible as being like a Chinese menu, you know, one from Column A, two from Column B. They ignore all the crap about the poor, the sick, the imprisoned, the hungry, etc. etc. etc. They love the stuff about having lots of babies and killing anyone you don't like.
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I recall seeing a couple articles about problematic trends where, when right wingers who loudly proclaimed themselves to be Christians were faced with the simple fact that Jesus' teachings directly contradict right-wing ideology by their pastors, there was rejection of Jesus, not their right-wing ideology. Just like there's rejection of democracy instead of right-wing authoritarian propaganda.
 
Aridas said:
I recall seeing a couple articles about problematic trends where, when right wingers who loudly proclaimed themselves to be Christians were faced with the simple fact that Jesus' teachings directly contradict right-wing ideology by their pastors, there was rejection of Jesus, not their right-wing ideology. Just like there's rejection of democracy instead of right-wing authoritarian propaganda.
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From the Shortpacked webcomic, in which Historically Accurate Jesus was (somehow) transported to the modern day.

 
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Random said:
It would make more sense if the Bible did not specifically tell them repeatedly that the Faith=Material Wealth idea was a load of dingo's kidneys...
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Except that they can find Biblical justification for it too, in both the Old and the New Testaments, because of course they can.

Deuteronomy 28:11-14
And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
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Mark 10:29-30
And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
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3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
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Not to mention pretty much the entire ending of Job:

And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.

He had also seven sons and three daughters.

And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.

And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.

After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.

So Job died, being old and full of days.
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Rep. Derrick Van Orden (R-Wis.) is being criticized for an X post he made yesterday.
Van Orden wrote "YES!" on the social platform X Thursday, while quoting an X user's post that said "17 million people lost health care" and "18 million kids lost school meals" after the passage of Trump's sweeping budget bill. The Wisconsin Republican's post came moments after he and his fellow GOP lawmakers voted on the legislation. Alternet article link
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Van Orden has since deleted the post, which he claims was meant to reply to something else.

Another GOP member of Congress who has no worries about people losing healthcare is Troy Nehls (R-TX). He explained to the media that no Americans will actually lose healthcare:
“No,” he answered. “Just some Americans that aren’t Americans, and that is the illegals. Why should illegals be on Medicare [sic]? Shouldn’t have it." Mediaite article link
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Rep. Troy Nehls talks to media yesterday.
 
newyorkguy said:
Another GOP member of Congress who has no worries about people losing healthcare is Troy Nehls (R-TX). He explained to the media that no Americans will actually lose healthcare:


View attachment 62237
Rep. Troy Nehls talks to media yesterday.
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He'll find out soon enough. Then it will all be Biden's fault. Or Obama's fault. Anyone but him.
 
Why should illegals be on Medicaid, Rep. Troy Nehls asked? How about if they're working on farms, meat-packing plants or in the hospitality industry? Shouldn't they have it? As president trump said the other day, their employers know them, can vouch for them.
 
Aridas said:
I recall seeing a couple articles about problematic trends where, when right wingers who loudly proclaimed themselves to be Christians were faced with the simple fact that Jesus' teachings directly contradict right-wing ideology by their pastors, there was rejection of Jesus, not their right-wing ideology. Just like there's rejection of democracy instead of right-wing authoritarian propaganda.
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To be fair all christians are a la carte christians, because it's impossible to hold to every rule in the bible.
 
newyorkguy said:
Rep. Derrick Van Orden (R-Wis.) is being criticized for an X post he made yesterday.

Van Orden has since deleted the post, which he claims was meant to reply to something else.

Another GOP member of Congress who has no worries about people losing healthcare is Troy Nehls (R-TX). He explained to the media that no Americans will actually lose healthcare:


View attachment 62237
Rep. Troy Nehls talks to media yesterday.
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Did Nehls recently lose a fight with a wall?
 
Kandiss Taylor, of "Jesus Guns Babies" fame declared that the flooding in Texas was fake. Once the backlash hit she tried to walk it back meaning it was weather control.

www.thedailybeast.com

MAGA Candidate Calls Texas Floods ‘Fake’: It’s ‘Murder’

Kandiss Taylor, who is running for Congress in 2026, insists that someone manipulated the weather.
www.thedailybeast.com www.thedailybeast.com

Then she tried to blame liberals for the backlash.
 
kookbreaker said:
Kandiss Taylor, of "Jesus Guns Babies" fame declared that the flooding in Texas was fake. Once the backlash hit she tried to walk it back meaning it was weather control.

www.thedailybeast.com

MAGA Candidate Calls Texas Floods ‘Fake’: It’s ‘Murder’

Kandiss Taylor, who is running for Congress in 2026, insists that someone manipulated the weather.
www.thedailybeast.com www.thedailybeast.com

Then she tried to blame liberals for the backlash.
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Liberals didn't post that trash in the first place, sweetheart. Go back to your asylum.
 
kookbreaker said:
Kandiss Taylor, of "Jesus Guns Babies" fame declared that the flooding in Texas was fake. Once the backlash hit she tried to walk it back meaning it was weather control.

www.thedailybeast.com

MAGA Candidate Calls Texas Floods ‘Fake’: It’s ‘Murder’

Kandiss Taylor, who is running for Congress in 2026, insists that someone manipulated the weather.
www.thedailybeast.com www.thedailybeast.com

Then she tried to blame liberals for the backlash.
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She must have lost a fight with a ball-peen hammer.
 
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