Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 9

The trick these days is finding enough room on the turret for the uncrewed weapon station and the active protection system.

I suspect that real soon now we're going to see a generation of tanks that include one or more anti-armor FPV drones in ready-to-launch canisters affixed to the turret.

Also: One thing we're seeing in Ukraine is attacking troops being forced into fortified positions (bunkers, cellars, etc.) by artillery and drones. Then the defenders rush forward in armored vehicles. The vehicles take up overwatch positions in case the attacking troops try to stop the counterattack. The dismounts then move to assault the fortifications with grenades and demolition charges.

Armored vehicles with heavy firepower will always be relevant in both attack and defense. Tanks aren't going anywhere.
 
The United States will reduce funding allocated for military assistance to Ukraine in its upcoming defense budget, U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said in a congressional hearing on June 10.

"It is a reduction in this budget," Hegseth told lawmakers in the U.S. House of Representatives.

"This administration takes a very different view of that conflict. We believe that a negotiated peaceful settlement is in the best interest of both parties and our nation's interests, especially with all the competing interests around the globe."

kyivindependent.com

US to cut military aid to Ukraine, Hegseth says

The U.S. will reduce funding allocated for military assistance to Ukraine in its upcoming defense budget, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said in a congressional hearing on June 10.
kyivindependent.com kyivindependent.com
 
Andy_Ross said:
The United States will reduce funding allocated for military assistance to Ukraine in its upcoming defense budget, U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said in a congressional hearing on June 10.

"It is a reduction in this budget," Hegseth told lawmakers in the U.S. House of Representatives.

"This administration takes a very different view of that conflict. We believe that a negotiated peaceful settlement is in the best interest of both parties and our nation's interests, especially with all the competing interests around the globe."

kyivindependent.com

US to cut military aid to Ukraine, Hegseth says

The U.S. will reduce funding allocated for military assistance to Ukraine in its upcoming defense budget, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said in a congressional hearing on June 10.
kyivindependent.com kyivindependent.com
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The utter stupidity of these amateurs is amazing. Russia will only ever negotiate a surrender. Trump is actively helping Russia achieve that end.
 
Russian casualties have crossed the line to 1 million.

www.euronews.com

Russian troop losses in Ukraine surpass the 1 million mark, Kyiv says

The General Staff of Ukraine's Armed Forces reported on Thursday that Russia has lost over 1 million troops in Ukraine since the beginning of its full-scale invasion. Kyiv says the 1 million mark is not just a statistic, but "a symbol of resistance and resilience". #EuropeNews
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com

Although it is the Ukrainians doing the counting here, their numbers haven't exactly been laughable.
 
steenkh said:
How do we know the bolded part? Do we have independent sources (not based on Ukrainian figures) for comparison?
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theprestige's point, which I agree with, is that it's not in Ukraine's interest to make things up, since they are playing to a Western audience who may well learn if the propaganda was fundamentally inaccurate, even if it takes a while.
 
steenkh said:
How do we know the bolded part? Do we have independent sources (not based on Ukrainian figures) for comparison?
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From memory (very open to being fact checked here)...UK MoD does its own assessments which usually track slightly behind the Ukraine estimates but not ridiculously so and difference could be explained by MoD looking for a higher standard of proof rather than the figures from Ukraine being wrong.
 
zooterkin said:
theprestige's point, which I agree with, is that it's not in Ukraine's interest to make things up, since they are playing to a Western audience who may well learn if the propaganda was fundamentally inaccurate, even if it takes a while.
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I don’t think Western audiences care much about accurate statistics, as long as they show what we want to be true. Take for instance the Russian economy that was declared to collapse in a few months, then definitely in the next few months, definitely soon, and finally to have already collapsed, although the Russians are still fighting in Russia.

The best evidence that the Ukrainians are right in their statistics, is that they are still able to field soldiers at the front, despite the costly effort of the Russians to subjugate them.
 
steenkh said:
I don’t think Western audiences care much about accurate statistics, as long as they show what we want to be true. Take for instance the Russian economy that was declared to collapse in a few months, then definitely in the next few months, definitely soon, and finally to have already collapsed, although the Russians are still fighting in Russia.

The best evidence that the Ukrainians are right in their statistics, is that they are still able to field soldiers at the front, despite the costly effort of the Russians to subjugate them.
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I'm not that bothered whether the statistics released to the Western public are accurate - if it's useful propaganda then have at it - but I hope that the statistics being used by Ukraine high command, and being shared with key allies, are as accurate as they can reasonably be.

Rather like the Royal Air Force (RAF) during the Battle of Britain, they knew that pilots' claims were likely inflated but allowed them to stand, but planning was done based on confirmed kills. OTOH the Luftwaffe apparently accepted claims at face value (though it would have been impossible to try and confirm kills). As a result the Luftwaffe thought that the RAF were close to being out of fighters when in fact there was no immediate danger of them being so.
 
Not quite. the German numbers were more accurate than the RAF ones. What the Germans made a mistake on was the level of new aircraft production. They based their estimates on their own level of aircraft production and replacement.

Replacing pilots was a bigger worry.
 
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Video (sorry it came to me via Facebook account Ukraine:News) appears to show a Russian SU-25 aircraft shoot down his wingman.

www.facebook.com

1.3M views · 13K reactions | Ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you the great Russian Air Force.Today, for the first time during the war, a Russian aircraft has struck its own wingman over Donetsk Oblast.The incident involved two Su-25s—ground-at

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you the great Russian Air Force.Today, for the first time during the war, a Russian aircraft has struck its own wingman over Donetsk Oblast.The incident...
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
 
Wudang said:
Video (sorry it came to me via Facebook account Ukraine:News) appears to show a Russian SU-25 aircraft shoot down his wingman.

www.facebook.com

1.3M views · 13K reactions | Ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you the great Russian Air Force.Today, for the first time during the war, a Russian aircraft has struck its own wingman over Donetsk Oblast.The incident involved two Su-25s—ground-at

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you the great Russian Air Force.Today, for the first time during the war, a Russian aircraft has struck its own wingman over Donetsk Oblast.The incident...
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
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Comments on the Suchomimus channel suggest the lead SU-25 wasn't actually hit by rockets but lost a wing for other reasons, possibly including one of its own rockets exploding in the pod.
 
Trebuchet said:
Comments on the Suchomimus channel suggest the lead SU-25 wasn't actually hit by rockets but lost a wing for other reasons, possibly including one of its own rockets exploding in the pod.
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To me it looks like the wing breaking off as he pulls a high-G turn. I'm only an Xbox fighter pilot, but there's no way that's FF with canon or rockets. They're never on the same axis.
 
Trebuchet said:
Comments on the Suchomimus channel suggest the lead SU-25 wasn't actually hit by rockets but lost a wing for other reasons, possibly including one of its own rockets exploding in the pod.
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That's my impression. Denys Davidov thought the wing just failed in the turn but I think one of his rockets exploded. Maybe not the warhead, but the motor. Purely speculation but I wonder if he pulled into the turn while the salvo was still launching and one rocket stuck half out of the tube.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
That's my impression. Denys Davidov thought the wing just failed in the turn but I think one of his rockets exploded. Maybe not the warhead, but the motor. Purely speculation but I wonder if he pulled into the turn while the salvo was still launching and one rocket stuck half out of the tube.
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For those unfamiliar, Denys is a former 737 pilot who has a flight channel in addition to his Ukraine channel (he flew for a Ukrainian airline, but, obviously, they've all been shut down the last few years :(). That doesn't mean he's automatically right about the wing's having failed, of course, but it does mean he's not just speculating ignorantly (not to imply that you were suggesting that he was, Jack).
 
Russia has added a new condition for peace.

It demands Ukraine destroy all of its Western weaponry.

Alexander Grushko, a Russian deputy foreign minister, said: “All these surpluses must be destroyed. All international algorithms are known. They must be reduced, disposed of, and guaranteed.”

www.telegraph.co.uk

Russia demands that Ukraine destroys all western weaponry

Putin’s deputy foreign minister adds disposal of weapons to long list of Russian requirements for peace
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
Russia intensifying its efforts in Ukraine are possibly an attempt to make the US think twice about committing significant resources to the Israel -Iran war.
Might work if Trump gave a toss about Ukraine.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Might work if Trump gave a toss about Ukraine.
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Well, I’m sure he cares about his Nobel Peace Prize that he probably still thinks is within reach, because nobody in history has ever done so much for peace as he had.
And if Obama, the second worst president ever, can get it, Donald should at least get a couple of them!
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Russia intensifying its efforts in Ukraine are possibly an attempt to make the US think twice about committing significant resources to the Israel -Iran war.
Might work if Trump gave a toss about Ukraine.
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The rest of Europe has already thought twice, and redoubled its material and political support for Ukraine in the wake of American démarche. The UK has already committed its entire inventory of modern self-propelled artillery (SPA) to Ukraine*.

France has not only increased its SPA production fourfold, but also committed its entire 2025 SPA production to Ukraine. France has also committed its entire 2025 production of rocket-boosted smart bombs to Ukraine, over 1,000 units.

The Czech Republic has emerged as a major global broker of artillery ammunition for Ukraine. The Czech effort is on track to bring Ukraine to artillery ammunition parity with Moscow by 2026.

All of these efforts - and more! - have been accompanied by a lifting of European restrictions on Ukraine's use of long-range weapons against Russian territory.

In many ways, the Trump administration's diffidence towards Ukraine has actually improved things for that nation.

*The UK artillery donation has special significance. The "Artillery System for the 1990s" (AS-90) was the UK's last cold war-era artillery upgrade. It was intended as a modern weapon suitable for countering Soviet aggression well into the new century. Now these machines are going to Ukraine, where they will fight the battles they were born to fight. Slava NATO.
 
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I wouldn't go that far - even the combined efforts of the EU are not enough to keep up with Ukraine's need for artillery shells- only the Us has the production capacity. Same for specialized missiles.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I wouldn't go that far - even the combined efforts of the EU are not enough to keep up with Ukraine's need for artillery shells- only the Us has the production capacity.
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Hence the emergence of the Czech Republic as a global broker of artillery ammunition for Ukraine. They are sourcing shells from manufacturers in South Korea and South Africa to make up the shortfall - something the American contribution wasn't doing even during the Biden administration.

And it's not just the increased amount of European aid to Ukraine. It's also the type of aid. For example, Sweden's donation of AWACs planes has enabled Ukrainian F-16s to overmatch their Muscovite counterparts in beyond-visual-range air combat.

Europe is also stepping up to fill niche roles in Ukraine's arsenal. Latvia has ramped up a major effort to provide vast quantities of drones. German firms are doing similar work to provide advanced semi-autonomous FPVs to Ukraine in significant numbers.

And it's not just the increased amount of aid, and the increase in modern technologically-superior aid, it's the shift in political support. Europe's lifting of restrictions on the use of long-range weapons in Russian territory greatly improves Ukraine's strategic options and capabilities.

The Great Zaganza said:
Same for specialized missiles.
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The US wasn't contributing any specialized missiles, as far as I know. No Joint Standoff Weapons. No Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missiles. No Standoff Land-Attack Missiles. No Long-Range Anti-Ship Missiles. Not even any good old-fashioned Tomahawks.

The European donations of ASM Hammer and Storm Shadow weapons to Ukraine isn't making up for an American shortfall, it's filling a gap the Americans weren't. They are a net increase in Ukraine's long-range arsenal.
 
I was thinking of Patriots,HIMARS and ATACMS.
You are right that there are European alternatives for some.
And South Korea is collaborating with Poland to build its very good tanks in Europe.
 
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theprestige said:
The rest of Europe has already thought twice, and redoubled its material and political support for Ukraine in the wake of American démarche. The UK has already committed its entire inventory of modern self-propelled artillery (SPA) to Ukraine*.

France has not only increased its SPA production fourfold, but also committed its entire 2025 SPA production to Ukraine. France has also committed its entire 2025 production of rocket-boosted smart bombs to Ukraine, over 1,000 units.

The Czech Republic has emerged as a major global broker of artillery ammunition for Ukraine. The Czech effort is on track to bring Ukraine to artillery ammunition parity with Moscow by 2026.

All of these efforts - and more! - have been accompanied by a lifting of European restrictions on Ukraine's use of long-range weapons against Russian territory.

In many ways, the Trump administration's diffidence towards Ukraine has actually improved things for that nation.

*The UK artillery donation has special significance. The "Artillery System for the 1990s" (AS-90) was the UK's last cold war-era artillery upgrade. It was intended as a modern weapon suitable for countering Soviet aggression well into the new century. Now these machines are going to Ukraine, where they will fight the battles they were born to fight. Slava NATO.
Click to expand...

Also BAE has just opened a new artillery barrel manufacturing plant in the UK.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I wouldn't go that far - even the combined efforts of the EU are not enough to keep up with Ukraine's need for artillery shells- only the Us has the production capacity. Same for specialized missiles.
Click to expand...


France and UK have ramped up shell production and a new BAE manufacturing plant is coming on line in the UK
 
theprestige said:
Hence the emergence of the Czech Republic as a global broker of artillery ammunition for Ukraine. They are sourcing shells from manufacturers in South Korea and South Africa to make up the shortfall - something the American contribution wasn't doing even during the Biden administration.
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Current president being ex NATO chief, and current government being pro-western helps a lot. But we have parliament election in few months and it doesn't look good.
 
ChrisO_wiki - more stories of Russia classifying badly wounded troops as fit and feeding to the meat grinder
https://bsky.app/profile/did%3Aplc%3A3w75iygkvtcrqvu4x4ux2hzv%2Fpost%2F3lrxhyxbinl2s

Also to meet the numbers: alcoholics, and other "subprime" enlisted often fed to the meat grinder to get rid of them
https://bsky.app/profile/did%3Aplc%3A3w75iygkvtcrqvu4x4ux2hzv%2Fpost%2F3lrvre2b5qt2s


A single Russian brigade has lost more than 12,000 men.

https://bsky.app/profile/chriso-wiki.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3lrqwaa4lbe2z
Brutality is common in the brigade and Chris) links to WarTranslated
https://bsky.app/profile/wartranslated.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3lp2oyxgcg226
 
kookbreaker said:
Gee, remember when it was all about ridding Ukraine of "Nazis" or something?
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It's still entirely true in the original Russian use of Nazis there? People who don't want evil Russian overlords are Nazis. In Russia, Nazis are propagandized as being bad because of their deeds against Russia. Their deeds against other groups don't cause similarly negative reactions, overall.
 
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During a Q&A at Russia's flagship investment event in St Petersburg, the Kremlin leader was asked what his end game was in the conflict.

He replied: "I have said many times that I consider the Russian and Ukrainian people to be one nation. In this sense, all of Ukraine is ours."
"There is an old rule," he said. "'Where a Russian soldier sets foot, that is ours'."

news.sky.com

Putin says 'Ukraine is ours' and threatens nuclear strike - showing how he feels about Trump

The Russian president's latest comments on the war in Ukraine are in sharp contrast to the Kremlin's recent rhetoric.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
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