[Continuation] The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 8

[SpitfireIX]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Indian_Army

I'm seeing a LOT of Soviet and Russian flags in the equipment origin column. Especially tanks.

Their Air Force operates Soviet/Russia, French, and home built planes. But they operate more Soviet/Russian than anything else.

It's true I didn't consider armored vehicles, which are mostly Soviet models. However, if you look at tube artillery, which is what the Russians need most, it's mainly 155s and 105s. India's only current Soviet-caliber guns are 130s, which are obsolete. In fact, they've converted almost half of their 130s to 155s.

As for infantry weapons, the Indian Army mainly uses 5.56 at the moment, though they have recently begun reequipping with new 7.62 Soviet assault rifles.

In any case, even apart from the issue of secondary sanctions, I doubt that either China or India are going to be eager to trade away significant amounts of artillery or ammunition, considering the rates of shell consumption we've seen in Ukraine.

 

[lobosrul5]

It's true I didn't consider armored vehicles, which are mostly Soviet models. However, if you look at tube artillery, which is what the Russians need most, it's mainly 155s and 105s. India's only current Soviet-caliber guns are 130s, which are obsolete. In fact, they've converted almost half of their 130s to 155s.

As for infantry weapons, the Indian Army mainly uses 5.56 at the moment, though they have recently begun reequipping with new 7.62 Soviet assault rifles.

In any case, even apart from the issue of secondary sanctions, I doubt that either China or India are going to be eager to trade away significant amounts of artillery or ammunition, considering the rates of shell consumption we've seen in Ukraine.

For both China and India, their more important trading partner is the West, compounded by the fact that Russia could economically implode at any time.

Also, reading up on India's AF they might be going with a new fighter built in India but designed and licensed by Lockheed. The backbone of their AF right now is the SU-30, but that will change in the coming decade.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/f-21.html

 

[theprestige]

The Ukraine War Has Found the Machinery of Western Governments Wanting
RUSI








The rest of the article is good too

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth!

Ukraine is allied with a bunch of disparate and often fractious liberal democracies. There is no politically-tenable "fast track" decision-making process for these governments. The same virtues and vices that make these nations supremely capable of giving Ukraine substantial support in its time of need... Those same virtues and vices make these nations slow to decide and slow to act on such matters.

Dark Brandon cannot actually wave a magic wand of dictatorship, and whip western civilization into a frenzy of unquestioning, coordinated blitzkrieg on Ukraine's behalf.

Pretty soon, Ukraine will be joining western Europe in full. And when they do, they won't want it any other way.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth!

Ukraine is allied with a bunch of disparate and often fractious liberal democracies. There is no politically-tenable "fast track" decision-making process for these governments. The same virtues and vices that make these nations supremely capable of giving Ukraine substantial support in its time of need... Those same virtues and vices make these nations slow to decide and slow to act on such matters.

Dark Brandon cannot actually wave a magic wand of dictatorship, and whip western civilization into a frenzy of unquestioning, coordinated blitzkrieg on Ukraine's behalf.

Pretty soon, Ukraine will be joining western Europe in full. And when they do, they won't want it any other way.

Tend to agree. Ukraine should be grateful that the West has enough anti-Russia sentiment to be concerned about their plight at all. It's not like fighting a just war is all it takes to get the West to pull out the wallet

 

[Dr.Sid]

Well .. to large extent the wallet was pulled ages ago. All that tech was built to fight Russians. Now it can do what it was made for. On foreign soil, with foreign soldiers. Win-win.

 

[theprestige]

Tend to agree. Ukraine should be grateful that the West has enough anti-Russia sentiment to be concerned about their plight at all. It's not like fighting a just war is all it takes to get the West to pull out the wallet

Well .. to large extent the wallet was pulled ages ago. All that tech was built to fight Russians. Now it can do what it was made for. On foreign soil, with foreign soldiers. Win-win.

Yep. Not only have we already paid for a lot of the stuff we're now sending to Ukraine, but sending it to fight Moscow is pretty much peak "getting our money's worth".

And I suspect that in some (many? most?) cases it would actually cost us more to decommission and dispose of these weapons, than it does to let Ukraine actually use them. I bet that if the US actually tried to get rid of its cluster munitions stockpile some other way, the effort would get bogged down in a billion dollars' worth of environmental impact reports and lawsuits.

 

[jeremyp]

Keep on going til #1, you'll like it.

That makes three T-34's we can send back to Russia.

The Tank Museum has also got a T-54.

 

[pzkpfw]

https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/08...-largest-storage-site-since-ukraine-invasion/

More than 40% of old Soviet tanks and armored vehicles have been removed from Russia’s biggest known military equipment storage base in Buryatia since the invasion of Ukraine began, according to new satellite images analyzed by The Moscow Times.

Much of what's left looks a bit "incomplete", or very old.

 

[steenkh]

At one point in 1941 over 50% of the medium tanks in Russian service were lend lease and the air force relied on Hurricanes as the main fighter.

I am in no position to dispute this, but I am surprised that the lend-lease organisation was able to gear up to that extent when the war in Russia only started in June that year.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I am in no position to dispute this, but I am surprised that the lend-lease organisation was able to gear up to that extent when the war in Russia only started in June that year.

Russia lost a huge number of tanks in the first month's of the invasion.

 

[Andy_Ross]

More drone activity over Moscow including

One of Russia’s main military optics manufacturers, the Zagorski plant was rocked by a huge explosion that blew up out windows many street blocks away. Cause unknown, but the plant makes optics for missiles and aircraft, as well as night-vision goggles and scopes.

Video in link

https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1689197904185978880?t=VY4_JR5cY9DvSwctrmrvIQ&s=19

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The factory was already on Wikipedia's list of mystery fires that have happened in Russia since they started their war. To have two such smoking accidents is beginning to look like carelessness.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The Russian Federation has lost at least half of its elite airborne forces who were sent to war in Ukraine in 2022.
According to UK MOD post on twitter.
The number is at least 15,000 Russian paratroopers.

Twitter thread here
https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1688064194665455616?t=ic6Xltb2MHLirTzEIh9Jzw&s=19

 

[a_unique_person]

Von Clausewitz has little use for feints, but I think even he would agree that if you're going to make a feint, it should at least draw away some of the forces you are actually fighting, instead of activating fresh forces from an as-yet latent enemy.

Putin is hoping for a response that includes as many dead Belarusians as possible. The crocodile tears will be the best ever.

 

[Mike!]

Putin is hoping for a response that includes as many dead Belarusians as possible. The crocodile years will be the best ever.

The Year of the Croc?

 

[a_unique_person]

The Year of the Croc?

Doh. Tears.

 

[gnome]

I'm feeling a kind of satisfaction in noticing the thread's gone to part 8 and Ukraine is still kicking.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

The factory was already on Wikipedia's list of mystery fires that have happened in Russia since they started their war. To have two such smoking accidents is beginning to look like carelessness.

Perhaps, in addition to sending drones to the Ukraine, we should make an exception to sanctions and sell more cigarettes to Russia. Finally, a chance for Big Tobacco to do something good for the world!

 

[a_unique_person]

I can't get over the ruthless destruction of anything of value that Putin indulges in. The human suffering for his vanity project is monstrous.

 

[lobosrul5]

https://twitter.com/MilitaryLabb/status/1689239872827965440

25 Rushkies captured by a Ukrainian raid across the Dnipro, including a Major.

Denys Davidov in his video last night, reported Ukraine looks to have expanded their bridgehead there.

Urozhaine has been partially taken by Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/MilitaryLabb/status/1689008877285621761

 

[Andy_Ross]

I saw that report but wasn't going to post until I saw more info. If they have a bridgehead and are able to reinforce it then it's a significant move.

 

[SpitfireIX]

I am in no position to dispute this, but I am surprised that the lend-lease organisation was able to gear up to that extent when the war in Russia only started in June that year.

I saw something on this recently. The British were willing to send a lot of their tanks to Russia in 1941 because they knew they'd soon be receiving plenty of Lend-Lease Shermans.

Additionally, the US had begun the process of ramping up production in mid-1940, after the fall of France, although FDR had to tread carefully until after the elections in November of that year.

And speaking of FDR, I've read that in 1941 his advisers were worried that he was Lend-Leasing so much materiel to the Allies that there wouldn't be enough left for the rapid expansion of the US armed forces then occurring.

 

[lobosrul5]

I saw something on this recently. The British were willing to send a lot of their tanks to Russia in 1941 because they knew they'd soon be receiving plenty of Lend-Lease Shermans.

Additionally, the US had begun the process of ramping up production in mid-1940, after the fall of France, although FDR had to tread carefully until after the elections in November of that year.

And speaking of FDR, I've read that in 1941 his advisers were worried that he was Lend-Leasing so much materiel to the Allies that there wouldn't be enough left for the rapid expansion of the US armed forces then occurring.

Interesting... in 1941 the Sherman hadn't even entered production, the first prototype was completed in Sept '41. We were producing Lees/Grants... which I always though of as basically the worst tank ever. After watching some Chieftan and Tank Museum videos it actually wasn't too terrible for 1941/2.

Looking at lend-lease numbers of British tanks to the USSR, not many got to the front until very late 1941, and they were pretty damned inadequate models to take on Pz3's and 4's.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Sky News reports that Russia says it's going to move forces to its western borders to counter the growing threat from NATO forces massing there.

 

[lobosrul5]

Ooops wrong thread.

ETA: but instead of wasting this post... lol what. What is Russia going to move to "counter a NATO" threat?! 2 companies of mobiks with shovels?

 

[jimbob]

Belarus has begun military exercises near its border with Poland and Lithuania.
Both countries have moved forces to the border regions and are expecting provocations. NATO forces in the Forward Presence Battalions are also on increased readiness.

Von Clausewitz has little use for feints, but I think even he would agree that if you're going to make a feint, it should at least draw away some of the forces you are actually fighting, instead of activating fresh forces from an as-yet latent enemy.

Sky News reports that Russia says it's going to move forces to its western borders to counter the growing threat from NATO forces massing there.

With the addition that one really shouldn't tie up more of your forces than the enemy.

I'm feeling a kind of satisfaction in noticing the thread's gone to part 8 and Ukraine is still kicking.

Yup

Perhaps, in addition to sending drones to the Ukraine, we should make an exception to sanctions and sell more cigarettes to Russia. Finally, a chance for Big Tobacco to do something good for the world!

Nice one

 

[jimbob]

Belarus has begun military exercises near its border with Poland and Lithuania.
Both countries have moved forces to the border regions and are expecting provocations. NATO forces in the Forward Presence Battalions are also on increased readiness.

Interesting take on this.



Wagner being there is a way to keep it away from advancing on Moscow.

 

[dudalb]

SO far lost of rhetoric from Putin about the West, but little in the way of action.

 

[dudalb]

Ooops wrong thread.

ETA: but instead of wasting this post... lol what. What is Russia going to move to "counter a NATO" threat?! 2 companies of mobiks with shovels?

That is his problem; he sort of out of symbolic gestures;anything he does would be a major escalation.
And,yes, Wagner attacking a Nato member would be a major escalation.

 

[The Don]

Sky News reports that Russia says it's going to move forces to its western borders to counter the growing threat from NATO forces massing there.

I wonder what forces these would be.

I thought that the Russian Army was already completely overstretched in Ukraine.

 

[quadraginta]

I wonder what forces these would be.

I thought that the Russian Army was already completely overstretched in Ukraine.

They probably have women, children, and the elderly they haven't mobilized ... yet.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

It's probably going to be mobiks, or the builder units where all the useless troops get sidelined to.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

They probably have women, children, and the elderly they haven't mobilized ... yet.

Or, if Putin *really* gets desperate, Russians from the major cities with actual friends.

 

[kookbreaker]

Ooops wrong thread.

ETA: but instead of wasting this post... lol what. What is Russia going to move to "counter a NATO" threat?! 2 companies of mobiks with shovels?

They might have farm tractors!*




* This joke is already old.

 

[dudalb]

Finland is basically strenghting it's border protection on the Russian Border. They are taking no chances.

 

[Doubt]

Interesting... in 1941 the Sherman hadn't even entered production, the first prototype was completed in Sept '41. We were producing Lees/Grants... which I always though of as basically the worst tank ever. After watching some Chieftan and Tank Museum videos it actually wasn't too terrible for 1941/2.

Looking at lend-lease numbers of British tanks to the USSR, not many got to the front until very late 1941, and they were pretty damned inadequate models to take on Pz3's and 4's.

The Sherman got stuck on the drawing board because the army wanted a cast turret and the technology had not caught up to the demand for the bigger turret yet. An earlier Sherman would have had a lot of the same assembly issues as the Grant/Lee tanks. Bolts instead of welds.

 

[Doubt]

The Russian Federation has lost at least half of its elite airborne forces who were sent to war in Ukraine in 2022.
According to UK MOD post on twitter.
The number is at least 15,000 Russian paratroopers.

Twitter thread here
https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1688064194665455616?t=ic6Xltb2MHLirTzEIh9Jzw&s=19

Well, that explains why they have not been seen much since the initial assault. Of course, given how long the war has taken, they could have started a serious rebuilding effort if they were not just throwing poorly trained conscripts into the fight.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

It's probably going to be mobiks, or the builder units where all the useless troops get sidelined to.

Bet you it's going to be the batallions made up of politicians' and oligarchs' sons that used be stationed around Belgorod and Novorossiysk up until a few months ago.

 

[lobosrul5]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...city-planning-evacuation-as-russians-approach

Ukraine has placed a mandatory evacuation order to all civilians in Kharkiv Oblast near Kupiansk.

The Russians have created an offensive group consisting of eight "Storm-Z assault units" to take Kupiansk, Colonel-General Oleksandr Syrskyi, Commander of the Ground Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, told Ukrainska Pravda Wednesday.

Internet speculation is that Ukraine will allow Russia to take some ground... so they can hit them out in the open with cluster munitions.

 

[theprestige]

Engage the enemy in a decisive battle, at a time and place of your choosing. What's interesting is that both sides kind of have to play along. Is Moscow committing its main strength in Kupiansk? If so, is it because Ukraine's shaping operations have forced Moscow to make a move that gives Ukraine the upper hand in the ensuing contest? Or is Moscow's move intended to force Ukraine into a battle on terms more convenient to the invader?