The Pope supports organ donation, but the Vatican won't let him donate any organs

[AdMan]

Pope Benedict has a soft spot in his heart for organ donations but his body parts can't be donated to save lives after he dies, the Vatican says.

Source.

I found this to be the funniest (and stupidest) bit:

Vatican officials say that after a pope dies, his body belongs to the entire Church and must be buried intact. Furthermore, if papal organs were donated, they would become relics in other bodies if he were eventually made a saint.

It's like a weird collision between medieval beliefs and modern medicine.

 

[JimBenArm]

Maybe they should donate pianos instead.

 

[brainmeat]

They should just put his organs in a basket with some loaves and fishes, then there would be kidneys enough for all.

 

[The True Scotsman]

Random Cardinal: "Hello, Mr Johnson. I represent the Catholic Church and it seems that there has been a mix-up. You see, that liver you were given belonged to the recently deceased Pope and, since it is a holy relic, we're going to need it back."
Dave Johnson: "Ummm...No." (slam door).

 

[Darth Rotor]

Random Cardinal: "Hello, Mr Johnson. I represent the Catholic Church and it seems that there has been a mix-up. You see, that liver you were given belonged to the recently deceased Pope and, since it is a holy relic, we're going to need it back."
Dave Johnson: "Ummm...No." (slam door).

He might look at this as a chance to become Saint Dave ... or become the foundation of a new church ...

 

[LibraryLady]

Seriously. Who would want his organs?

 

[The Norseman]

Vatican officials say that after a pope dies, his body belongs to the entire Church and must be buried intact. Furthermore, if papal organs were donated, they would become relics in other bodies if he were eventually made a saint.

"In him truly beats the heart of a saint."

"No, seriously."

 

[I Ratant]

What's the expected useable life time for donated organs?
Getting anything from a geezer like the Popes tend to be when they shuffle off this mortal coil may be just taking out a failing organ and stuffing in a failed or soon to fail replacement.
One should have a clone floating in a vat someplace for a reliable source of organs.

 

[AdMan]

Furthermore, if papal organs were donated, they would become relics in other bodies if he were eventually made a saint.

This argument is somewhat illogical, because it implies that only popes can become saints, which is not the case.

With the reasoning the Vatican is using, they shouldn't really be approving of organ donation at all.

 

[slingblade]

This argument is somewhat illogical, because it implies that only popes can become saints, which is not the case.

With the reasoning the Vatican is using, they shouldn't really be approving of organ donation at all.

I don't see where it's implied that only popes can become saints. But of the general population, popes are a lot higher on the list for potential canonization than, say, you or I would be.

 

[Ladewig]

It's like a weird collision between medieval beliefs and modern medicine.

It may be weird but it is not unusual.

 

[geni]

Seriously. Who would want his organs?

Given his age I suppose his cornea might be of value but thats about it.

 

[The True Scotsman]

Seriously. Who would want his organs?

Anyone who needs them and isn't petty.

ETA: Unless you are referring to the pope's age and not making some weird idealogical stance. Perhaps I was assuming you meant the latter.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Seriously. Who would want his organs?

I love PZ's sense of humor: Who would want them?

My first thought was ick — he's rather decrepit, and if I ever require an organ transplant, I'd rather the source were a young, stupid motorcyclist who doesn't wear a helmet.

 

[geni]

It's like a weird collision between medieval beliefs and modern medicine.

Oh thats normal. It's why they switched the name from NMR to MRI (N stands for nuclear see).

 

[LibraryLady]

Anyone who needs them and isn't petty.

ETA: Unless you are referring to the pope's age and not making some weird idealogical stance. Perhaps I was assuming you meant the latter.

No, I was referring to the fact that he's old and rather sickly looking. I'd take a Nazi's organs if I needed them. At least then they'd be put to good use.

 

[TragicMonkey]

It would be neat if you got a corneal transplant from a dead pope, and then the pope was sainted, and then suddenly you could see whatever he was seeing in heaven. As a sainted pope he'd be sure to move in the most exalted circles, and you could write down what you see and sell the information to the highest bidder. I bet Satan would love to get his hands on the security codes to the heavenly computer systems, or find out the exact disposition of God's security details. I bet security's lax on big holidays like Xmas. Picture it, Xmas Eve, God's palace. All the dignitaries and saints and popes and historical figures are at the big party, getting drunk, and then you can watch, through your very own holy undead vision, as demon attack forces crash through the windows and massacre the lot of them. St Michael's passed out drunk, the army's mostly off on leave, and the emergency Bat Phone got hacked and disconnected! Jesus tries to fight them off, but thanks to your spying they know he's vulnerable to kryptonite.

This could work!

 

[sphenisc]

Random Cardinal: "Hello, Mr Johnson. I represent the Catholic Church and it seems that there has been a mix-up. You see, that liver you were given belonged to the recently deceased Pope and, since it is a holy relic, we're going to need it back."
Dave Johnson: "Ummm...No." (slam door).

It's better than being Dave Liver and receiving his johnson.

 

[Wowbagger]

Couldn't the Pope, in theory, overrule the Vatican, if he really wanted to?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Couldn't the Pope, in theory, overrule the Vatican, if he really wanted to?

The problem with dictatorship is that no matter how absolute the power claimed is, they're all utterly at the mercy of their bureaucracies. The pope can decree until he's blue in the face, but unless he's prepared to go in person and supervise each of his orders being carried out (and stick around after to make sure they aren't reversed) there's not a thing he can do to make sure anybody's listening. Heck, there's no guarantee he even knows what's going on, he's surrounded by staff that decides what to tell him. The bureaucracy of the Roman Catholic Church is hellaciously old and dusty, it swallows any would-be-reformer popes whole. Popes are figureheads, whether they like it or not. They'd have to literally perform miracles to overcome the machinery of their own church.

And once he's dead, of course, they'll do whatever they like anyway. People rarely make it back from the dead to complain.

eta: and if he did come back from the dead, they'd just exorcise him away.

 

[Denver]

I think this is an extremely interesting issue and thread: it's one of those that I think points out an obvious disconnect between current belief, and modern understanding. I would expect the Vatican to (eventually) adopt a different stance on this issue.

IIRC, the belief of the Catholic Church is that they do not make saints, they only 'officially' recognize them: that is, the person was already a saint, and the Church has just done its due diligence to insure that, when they put forward a person as a saint (and therefore, as an example that the faithful should emulate), they are confident in their proclamation.

That seems to imply that there are many other 'saints' that they have not recognized yet (I think as was implied earlier, but not just popes). So really to be consistent, they church should allow no one to donate their organs.

I could almost see them going this route (they do have some serious rules on how to treat the deceased's body). Almost. But not quite: I think their penchant for preaching self-sacrifice will overcome their fear of God insisting on some Lovecraftian outcome during the resurrection because of someone's choice to help another person.

So it will be a fun issue to watch over time.

 

[Wowbagger]

Heck, there's no guarantee he even knows what's going on, he's surrounded by staff that decides what to tell him.

And why would someone with a direct line to God need staff to tell him things?

 

[Sledge]

It's better than being Dave Liver and receiving his johnson.

One previous owner, hardly used. Could be worse.

 

[TragicMonkey]

And why would someone with a direct line to God need staff to tell him things?

Because God is frequently drunk, and the things he tells the pope at those times are somewhat fanciful and entirely unreliable.

 

[brodski]

Oh thats normal. It's why they switched the name from NMR to MRI (N stands for nuclear see).

Fear of the word nuclear is hardly medieval.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Random Cardinal: "Hello, Mr Johnson. I represent the Catholic Church and it seems that there has been a mix-up. You see, that liver you were given belonged to the recently deceased Pope and, since it is a holy relic, we're going to need it back."
Dave Johnson: "Ummm...No." (slam door).

Random Cardinal: (Pulls out a Satellite Phone)"Black Robe One? This is Red Hat Five. Send in the Repo Man. Repeat, send in the Repo Man... and a cleaning crew."

 

[Wowbagger]

Because God is frequently drunk, and the things he tells the pope at those times are somewhat fanciful and entirely unreliable.

What if God was drunk when he decreed the Church should not allow organ donations?

 

[The Norseman]

What if God was drunk when he decreed the Church should not allow organ donations?

What if God was one of us
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home
He's trying to make his way home
Back up to heaven all alone
Nobody calling on the phone
Except for the Pope maybe in Rome

 

[Dave Rogers]

This argument is somewhat illogical, because it implies that only popes can become saints, which is not the case.

Arguably, in fact, one could suggest that anyone who donates an organ and hence saves a life is responsible for a miracle - at least, that's what the religious like to say whenever it happens - so anyone donating two or more organs for life-saving operations should automatically go on the fast track to sainthood. Therefore, anyone receiving organ donations automatically becomes a resting place for a holy relic.

Actually, I believe part of that anyway. Organ donors deserve some atheist equivalent of sainthood; there's not much else we can do to say thank you.

Dave

 

[TragicMonkey]

What if God was drunk when he decreed the Church should not allow organ donations?

God didn't decree the Church shouldn't allow organ donations. If he were against it, everybody's organs would incompatible with all other bodies besides the one that grew it. Although he originally did plan to personally create each being separately, only his hangover during Genesis was so bad he just made two of everything and invented sex so beings would make themselves from then on. And species only seem to be related to each other because he was lazy and worked from templates, making only slight adjustments as he went along. All the supposed incompatibilities between religion and science are easily explained once you realize that God is an alcoholic.

 

[plumjam]

Haven't they been donating organs to altar boys for centuries?

 

[Sledge]

All the supposed incompatibilities between religion and science are easily explained once you realize that God is an alcoholic.

I feel this is not incompatible with my "God is evil" hypothesis.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I feel this is not incompatible with my "God is evil" hypothesis.

If God were evil everything would be much more orderly, and there would be a plague of unkillable Spice Girls infesting the world in teeming millions.

 

[TimCallahan]

When it comes right down to it, who would want Ratzinger's nasty old organs - or mine for that matter? I'm closer to 70 than to 60. Should I make to 80 or beyond, like AFAIK most popes do, would anyone really want my 80 year-old liver, kidneys, etc. once I die?

 

[KingMerv00]

Haven't they been donating organs to altar boys for centuries?

Knowing that you believe in hell makes this joke even funnier.

 

[Marduk]

When it comes right down to it, who would want Ratzinger's nasty old organs

if his penis isn't in pristine condition I would want an enquiry

 

[The Norseman]

if his penis isn't in pristine condition I would want an enquiry

At that age, as far as the church is concerned, would he still be considered a member in good standing?

 

[TragicMonkey]

When it comes right down to it, who would want Ratzinger's nasty old organs

Well, I wouldn't want them for use inside me, but I read that ground-up papal liver can be used in voodoo rituals to summon an undead army of the night to do one's bidding. For example. Not that I would want an undead army of the night to do my bidding, of course. Perish the thought.

 

[Sledge]

If God were evil everything would be much more orderly, and there would be a plague of unkillable Spice Girls infesting the world in teeming millions.

He's not thoughtful evil. Think less like Emperor Palpatine and more like The Joker: chaotic, flitting from one idea to the next, ideas unified only by their horrible nature. It might be poisoning a reservoir supplying water to a city or stealing a kid's report card so he'll get in trouble. No plan, no reason, just funny.

 

[Wowbagger]

God didn't decree the Church shouldn't allow organ donations. If he were against it, everybody's organs would incompatible with all other bodies besides the one that grew it. Although he originally did plan to personally create each being separately, only his hangover during Genesis was so bad he just made two of everything and invented sex so beings would make themselves from then on. And species only seem to be related to each other because he was lazy and worked from templates, making only slight adjustments as he went along. All the supposed incompatibilities between religion and science are easily explained once you realize that God is an alcoholic.

Certainly does explain an awful lot.