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The Official Alex Jones Thread!

The situation I'm referring to is this, from Cornell Law School:https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/judgment_debt

This applies generally to small-claims and district court claims. The phrase at the beginning of your highlight, "After obtaining an order from the court...," is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The order to enforce collection comes at the end of a lot of procedure, and isn't a given.

I imagine if Jones has $93,000 to splash about per month, it would be no problem to garnish, say, $92,000 of that per month towards his $1.5 billion black hole.

It would be, under an appropriate order (in addition to the judgment itself), and if Jones were not in bankruptcy. Filing for bankruptcy stops all collection efforts dead in their tracks.
 
Many thanks for your explanations - cogent and lucid as always.

The situation I'm referring to is this, from Cornell Law School:https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/judgment_debt

I imagine if Jones has $93,000 to splash about per month, it would be no problem to garnish, say, $92,000 of that per month towards his $1.5 billion black hole.

Bankruptcy stops all that. Now that said, it seems ridiculous that the bankruptcy court is letting him do all that spending.
 
Bankruptcy stops all that. Now that said, it seems ridiculous that the bankruptcy court is letting him do all that spending.

Exactly. I would think they would freeze his assets and give him an allowance to live on. The dude is probably going to be dead in ten years, by the way he looks, and he's just going to spend all his money before any of his debts get paid.
 
Now that said, it seems ridiculous that the bankruptcy court is letting him do all that spending.

Indeed, it's a moral outrage.

Exactly. I would think they would freeze his assets and give him an allowance to live on.

That's exactly what happens. The difference between Chapters 7 and 11 are how the estate assets are managed. In Chapter 7, all* the debtor assets are liquidated and thrown into a big pile. Creditors submit arguments to the court explaining why they should get a bigger dip out of the pile than others. The court makes an equitable judgment in which some creditors may be fully paid off, others may be partly paid off, and some creditors just go fish.

Morally this works because the debtor admits he has thrown in the towel and has to start over from basically nothing—but can do so debt-free. Creditors go for it because it changes the footing from creditor vs. debtor (can't squeeze blood from a turnip) to creditor vs. creditor. The money is there (whereas before a creditor couldn't, say, force a debtor to sell his house or do any other specific thing). All you have to do is out-lawyer your competitors and you get more pennies on your dollar.

Chapter 11 is a reorganization of assets and debts. It differs fundamentally in that the assets remain in place initially. A court-appointed trustee oversees assets and expenditures. The debtor is responsible for making a plan to restructure debts and assets, which may involve voluntary liquidation of some assets (while retaining others) and a request that the court erase or lower some debts (while retaining others), modifying the terms of repayment, or specifying a negotiation between debtors and creditors to seek amicable settlement of debt.

The debtor is also responsible for convincing the trustee of ongoing expenditures necessary to maintain the debtor entity as an ongoing concern with a plausible prospect of regaining solvency. The goals are (1) to keep the entity operating insofar as possible during the process, and (2) do the best for the creditors with the least harm to the debtor.

While the court must ultimately approve the reorganization plan, this footing still gives quite a lot of power to the debtor over Chapter 7. And the trusteeship plan is generally agreed to early so that the debtor entity can achieve stability in order to spend more time on the reorganization plan. Hence its terms are not always favorable to a broader theory of morality or equity. The trustee can even incur more debt if they believe it will result in an overall better reorganization outcome and keep the entity afloat while it restructures. And Jones can certainly hire lawyers and accountants to justify that an ongoing personal expenditure of $93,000 for his household is in everyone's best interests. And yes, punitive judgments are more dischargeable under Chapter 11.

Ya know, if Jones can't maintain his signature lifestyle, how is he going to keep public interest in him enough to make money as a public figure? (shudder!)

There is also Chapter 13 bankruptcy (limited to individuals), but I'm not smart enough to talk about it.

But yes, it's all rich-person law and economincs. The morality underneath Chapter 11 is the presumption that the debtor who can afford to go broke this way is honorable and conscientious, and that there is a greater social benefit in letting large, complex financial structures (even if it's just one person) repent of their errors with as little blood drawn as possible. It's a moral outrage that someone like Jones should be able to draw on this.

...he's just going to spend all his money before any of his debts get paid.

That's often the plan.

* With austere exceptions for very basic living necessities: some place to live, some car, etc. If you file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, they will liquidate your Rolls Royce, but perhaps let you keep some of the proceeds to buy a used Subaru.
 
Exactly. I would think they would freeze his assets and give him an allowance to live on. The dude is probably going to be dead in ten years, by the way he looks, and he's just going to spend all his money before any of his debts get paid.

he's about to go on his third family trip to Hawaii in as many months.
 
As reported by the New York Times:
The judge in Alex Jones’s bankruptcy case ruled on Thursday that he will not be allowed to use his Chapter 11 filing to evade paying more than $1 billion in verdicts to families of the Sandy Hook shooting.

The ruling excludes $323000000 in attorneys' fees and costs, but the rest is now "non-dischargeable", meaning it is a debt that cannot be evaded through reorganization under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
 
As reported by the New York Times:
The judge in Alex Jones’s bankruptcy case ruled on Thursday that he will not be allowed to use his Chapter 11 filing to evade paying more than $1 billion in verdicts to families of the Sandy Hook shooting.

The ruling excludes $323000000 in attorneys' fees and costs, but the rest is now "non-dischargeable", meaning it is a debt that cannot be evaded through reorganization under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Sounds promising for the Sandy hook families.

Now how will he weasel out of it?
 
I'm sure that bankrupting AJ in perpetuity is more important to the families than a big payday.

It would be nice to send a message that you can't lie and destroy people's lives for profit, but more likely the scum like him will just try to learn better ways to get away with it.

If the families get any satisfaction out of it I'm truly happy for them, though. I just see a lot of lawyers using this case as an example of what not to do when you're selling snake oil.
 
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Excellent video from LegalEagle explaining why Jones's bankruptcy strategy was bound to fail, and why most of his arguments that the damage awards should be discharged are nonstarters.




yt;dw: Damages for intentional and malicious injuries are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, and for the lion's share of the damages, the trials established that the injuries Jones inflicted were intentional and malicious.
 
I hope we get to hear that Jones has made the payout to his victims.

Just wondering if that might get publicised.
 
I hope we get to hear that Jones has made the payout to his victims.

Just wondering if that might get publicised.

not happening.

Jones won't be paying, the person in charge of his Bankruptcy will distribute the assets under his control, and the lawyers will have to continue looking for all the money he has stashed away, and get courts to order banks to hand it over.

Jones will never right a check to the victims himself.


And yes, we will know, because there are people who have made this all possible who keep us in the loop
 
not happening.

Jones won't be paying, the person in charge of his Bankruptcy will distribute the assets under his control, and the lawyers will have to continue looking for all the money he has stashed away, and get courts to order banks to hand it over.

Jones will never right a check to the victims himself.


And yes, we will know, because there are people who have made this all possible who keep us in the loop

Thanks.

I don't care if Jones doesn't write the cheque. I just want to know the victims get paid somehow.
 
One of the contractors on the construction site I'm currently inspecting has an InfoWars logo on his safety jacket and an InfoWars sticker on his hard hat. Today I overheard him telling a coworker a story that I'm assuming he heard on InfoWars.

According to him, Crisco shortening was invented by Nazi Germany as a "smokeless submarine fuel". Proctor & Gamble acquired the formula after World War II and began selling it as a food product. "That's one of the reasons why we have so much cancer and other **** these days."
It took me about 10 seconds of research to find that P&G began selling Crisco in 1911, just a few years before World War II. I politely and nonconfrontationally told him that Crisco had been around for decades before the Nazis. He didn't say anything, but looked kind of thoughtful. I wouldn't place any substantial bets on it, but maybe, just maybe, he'll remember this and think a little more the next time he hears an outrageous story from InfoWars.

(Insert Starship Troopers "I'm doing my part" gif.)


Looking as I finished typing this, it's apparently a variation of a claim that it was a submarine lubricant invented for use by the German Navy in 1901.
 
Don't forget Canola Oil was invented as a fuel.


There was a website I saw many years ago on which a woman claimed that canola oil was deadly poison that would literally slowly rot your flesh off your bones. Part of her argument was that the rapeseed plant is related to the mustard plant ... from which the deadly mustard gas used in World War I was derived. So many things wrong with that.

EDIT: And according to Google there are still people making the erroneous mustard gas connection.
 
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Sandy Hook families’ plan to liquidate Alex Jones' estate hearing in March

https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/sandy-hook-family-liquidate-alex-jones-advances-18682191.php

"The vote in favor of the family’s plan for Jones to sell everything required by law sets up a confirmation hearing before Judge Christopher Lopez in late March, where both sides will argue the merits of their plan to resolve Jones’ debt to the families.

Jones’ attorneys have counter-offered a plan that would pay Sandy Hook families $55 million over 10 years."​


Nah, ah! Liquidate all of his assets, including those he craftily carved off to his family.
 
55 million over 10 years? He's offering them MORE delay? I don't know who's worse, Alex Jones or Trump.
 
55 million over 10 years? He's offering them MORE delay? I don't know who's worse, Alex Jones or Trump.

Jones' income from Infowars averaged $53.2 million in annual gross revenue between 2015 and 2022. He claimed at his August 2022 defamation trial, that his net worth is no more than $5 million, but a financial forensic expert estimated that he and his companies were worth $135 - $270 million.

Here is what I would do if I were offering advice for the families'

1. Take all of it, and give it the families, make Jones really bankrupt - take every last penny so that he lives out the rest of his miserable life in poverty.

2. Suggest to the families that they settle the rest of the debt with Jones on some conditions...

a. Infowars is shut down immediately and permanently.

b. Ownership of the Infowars brand, the registered trademark for Infowars, and the website and domains, are all transferred into the ownership of the families (so that no-one else can start up under that name). All other Jones' brands go to the families too.

c. Jones' agrees to stay out of public life for the rest of his life... no interviews, no announcements, no public statements, no attendance at protests or political rallies. If he writes any books, all proceeds from sales go to the families. Violation of these conditions in any way will immediately void the settlement, and the families will be able to go after him for the remaining judgement.
 
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And to make things simple, there should be no provision about Jones having to shut up. Just like Trump, there should be a clear understanding that he will get sued again and again if he keeps on defaming people in this horrible way, but to put it into a deal would make it easy to get the deal appealed.
 
1. Take all of it, and give it the families, make Jones really bankrupt - take every last penny so that he lives out the rest of his miserable life in poverty.


Sadly, that will never happen. His wealthy supporters will always guarantee that he lives comfortably, even if not at the level to which he's become accustomed.

c. Jones' agrees to stay out of public life for the rest of his life... no interviews, no announcements, no public statements, no attendance at protests or political rallies. If he writes any books, all proceeds from sales go to the families. Violation of these conditions in any way will immediately void the settlement, and the families will be able to go after him for the remaining judgement.


Apart from the fact that he'll never agree to such a condition, why should he, if all of your other conditions have been implemented? What would he have to lose at that point?
 
Jones doesn't know how to live with less than $20,000 a month, not counting houses and cars. Cocaine isn't cheap.

If the verdict leaves him mostly destitute, I expect he will drink himself to death - which will take a lot, given that he is regularly drunk on his show.
 
Can I offer some refinements?
Jones' income from Infowars averaged $53.2 million in annual gross revenue between 2015 and 2022. He claimed at his August 2022 defamation trial, that his net worth is no more than $5 million, but a financial forensic expert estimated that he and his companies were worth $135 - $270 million.
Remember that Jones is on the hook for $1.5 billion. So use that to advantage.

Here is what I would do if I were offering advice for the families'

1. Take all of it, and give it the families, make Jones really bankrupt - take every last penny that he owns now so that he lives out the rest of his miserable life in poverty.
That includes cars, houses, any other assets, and everything he tried to illegally offload to other people (those transactions to be nullified).
2. Suggest to the families that they settle the rest of the debt with Jones on some conditions...
NO! Make it work for the rest of Jones' miserable life, and also for his estate when dead.

a. Infowars is shut down immediately and permanently.
Actually... Take it over, but start broadcasting all the objective truth that Jones refused to tell, or simply lied. But don't tell Jones' erstwhile viewers, who will get a "wonderful" awakening...perhaps even learn something!

b. Ownership of the Infowars brand, the registered trademark for Infowars, and the website and domains, are all transferred into the ownership of the families (so that no-one else can start up under that name). All other Jones' brands go to the families too.
Yep. And prosecute ferociously anyone trying to have anything remotely like that trademarked name.

c. Jones' agrees to stay out of public life for the rest of his life... no interviews, no announcements, no public statements, no attendance at protests or political rallies. If he writes any books, all proceeds from sales go to the families. Violation of these conditions in any way will immediately void the settlement, and the families will be able to go after him for the remaining judgement.
Silencing Jones won't be possible. But garnishing his income will. See the note above about $1.5 billion? Make the agreement that Jones may not receive more than minimum wage equivalent from any of his earnings (tied to official minimum wage rate), until he has paid back his outstanding debt. Anything he earns beyond minimum wage goes to paying his debt. Anyone "gifts" him stuff will have it seized, assessed, sold, and the proceeds go towards his debt.

Frankly, Jones can go live in a cheap-ass trailer in a critter-ridden backwoods and eat cat food for the rest of his miserable life.
 
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Abstractly speaking, the point of judgments for torts is punishment. For defamation, it's hard to put a dollar figure on actual damages—"The plaintiff will need $2,740,000 to restore his reputation." Where does that calculation occur?

Sadly, the American judiciary has watered down the notion of punitive damages to almost comical levels. Seems the billionaires and corporations really hate it when they have to pay for all their shenanigans. The point of punitive action is to hurt an actor enough to make him think about not doing it again. The cap of roughly 3X actual damages is ludicrous. No, it's not at all substantive justice if Jones only has to pay a pittance and then keep going. We don't want ruining other people's lives to just be a business expense for him.

That said, the bankruptcy side of things still remains slightly fair. Bankruptcy courts look very skeptically at attempts to discharge what amounts to punishment for deliberate or negligent malfeasance. The underlying philosophy of bankruptcy is to sever the financial problems of a company from what may be its core of profitable intellectual property, know-how, concrete assets, and market share. The premise is that the company deserves to survive and return to profitability. If what makes a company unprofitable is its tendency to commit actionable torts repeatedly, then there is less incentive for a bankruptcy arbitration to return it to normal operations.
 
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Attribution unknown. Stolen from Threads.
 
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