Ed The Madeleine McCann Case.

catsmate said:
That'd probably because, unlike you, The Guardian is a reliable source of information.

Brueckner was extradited from Portugal (for sexually abusing a minor) in JUN2017. He then travelled to the Netherlands and Italy whilst still on probation after his release.
He was extradited to Germany from Italy in OCT2018 on warrant (for drug trafficking) before being tried and convicted of rape and extortion in DEC2019.

Brueckner’s challenge centred on whether the German authorities needed Portugal’s consent to bring rape proceedings because of the 2017 extradition. (Italy had agreed Brueckner could be tried for rape in Germany)

The (preliminary) opinion by Advocate General (which does not bind the ECJ) declared that the consent of only the Italian authorities was needed for the Germans to carry out their proceedings legally.

The final decision of the ECJ will be given in the future.
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Exactly correct.

However for some reason, Vixen apparently prefers to believe that what came out of the ECJ yesterday was some sort of victory for Brückner, but that the "biassed" media instead chose to portray it (incorrectly, in Vixen's eyes) as a defeat for him.

I would provide that John Heywood/Jonathan Swift quotation once again, but it's sounding more and more like a cliché by now.........
 
Herewith the STRAIGHT news and not the manipulated one:

EU court adviser faults Germany for McCann suspect extradition
Germany should have sought Rome's approval before extraditing a German man from Italy, EU's top court adviser says.

German authorities did not follow correct procedures when they extradited a German man from Italy on a rape charge - a man whom investigators also suspect of murdering British toddler Madeleine McCann, according to an adviser to the European Union's top court.
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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...cann-suspect-extradition-200806091317887.html

The ONLY issue that was being heard was Brueckner's claim the German's acted illegally in respect of the European Warrant for Arrest act. The German prosecutor's counsel argued vehemently that it was 'common sense' to ignore the breach and find against Bruecknerr's appeal.

All else is window dressing.

Had the ECJ rejected Brueckner's appeal then the press would equally be yelling 'HE LOST HIS BID FOR FREEDOM'.

People like Kate Connolly of the GUARDIAN didn't understand the legal issue at hand and hence the long ramble about how the rapist failed to have his conviction quashed.

The next step is for CB to apply to have it quashed through the proper channels, on the grounds it is unsafe. It is long shot but the law hinges on set rules not on 'common sense and what should be.
 
Meanwhile, the BBC and The Guardian...... oh and Reuters....

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...agreement-eu-court-adviser-says-idUKKCN2522II

..... all say that the ECJ advisory was that Germany did have the power and authority to prosecute Brückner for the rape, even though the original EAW listed only the drugs allegations. That, in other words, the ECJ advisory was very bad news for Brückner, and good news for the German State.


But yeah, I dunno...... maybe the BBC, The Guardian and Reuters all actually chose to lie about what happened yesterday, and/or they were all manipulated by dark forces, and/or they were all too ignorant as media organisations to have understood correctly what happened. And that Al Jazeera was right. Yeah.... that makes sense :rolleyes:
 
Vixen said:
Wrong! EU states are obliged by law to particularise via a European Warrant for Arrest. Look it up on wiki.

Simply claiming the suspect concerned is a mass murderer, doesn't make it OK to ignore EU law.
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You are wrong. There's nothing preventing the Germans from requesting that they be able to prosecute someone for other offences than those they were extradited for and there is nothing preventing the Italians from accepting such a request.

In fact the law contains explicit provisions for this.
 
Arcade22 said:
You are wrong. There's nothing preventing the Germans from requesting that they be able to prosecute someone for other offences than those they were extradited for and there is nothing preventing the Italians from accepting such a request.

In fact the law contains explicit provisions for this.
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Then your ignorance shows as EU law clearly states a European Warrant for Arrest must be issued in relation to matters that require extradition.
 
Vixen said:
Then your ignorance shows as EU law clearly states a European Warrant for Arrest must be issued in relation to matters that require extradition.
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Are you saying he shouldn’t have been extradited for the drug offences?
 
Samson said:
It is very difficult to break ribs, they are designed by long evolution to protect the organs behind.
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AIUI CB objected to the prison guards filming him on a monitor, so he smeared the lenses of the camera with yoghurt. When the guards wanted to shackle his ankles, he became upset so they kicked his legs out from beneath him and he fell against a wooden bed.

ISTM that this being a hearing for parole, CB saw being shackled as signalling to the judge he was extremely dangerous and thus was prejudicial to his case. He has also been reported to have deliberately trashed his cell at Kiel prison in some kind of protest.

He's been in isolation since BKA of Germany named him as MM's kidnapper/killer, so it is hardly surprising he has become disruptive. The German police are saying this is a good thing in that they have nearly broken him and got under his skin. Presumably they are either hoping (a) he'll confess or, (b) top himself.

Case closed: the perpetrator killed himself.
 
Trial by media in the lack of enough evidence to take to a real trial.

I'm surprised you agree with that.
 
The Atheist said:
Trial by media in the lack of enough evidence to take to a real trial.

I'm surprised you agree with that.
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This one is simple, so are many on the sub forum.
Time is precious, so keep focus on correcting injustices.
 
He isnt the perpertrator IMO, I recall reading that he had not been seena round the area when his picture was first shown to staff at Praia Der Luz.

He may well get chargrd with some misdemenaur(sp?) surrrounding the case but not the abduction.
 
I think there might be a bit of a communication breakdown in the old breaking news department here.

Just doing a search all the Southern hemisphere sources I see say charged, while most of the Northern hemisphere ones I am looking at say "named as formal suspect"

eg

I guess it was a lot of journalist scrambling to get it out.

Biggest SH one Headline.

"Madeleine McCann disappearance: Suspect charged in Germany, says Portugal prosecutor - reports"

UK Guardian Headline.

"Madeleine McCann: man made formal suspect by Portuguese authorities"
 
The fact that this information has been released when he hasn't yet been charged makes me think they don't really have much on him that isn't circumstantial. They're just prodding the hornet's nest to see what happens.
 
qarnos said:
The fact that this information has been released when he hasn't yet been charged makes me think they don't really have much on him that isn't circumstantial. They're just prodding the hornet's nest to see what happens.
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That is a good point as well.

Guess we will know if they either come out with something more substantial or the dude is found dead for an unknown reason in his cell in the next couple of weeks.
 
Under Portuguese law the statute of limitations is up after 15 years, which it will be after 3 May 2022. At the request of the German Braunsweig Prosecutors office they have made Brueckner an 'arguido' so that there are no legal difficulties in charging him. An arguido is a latin legal concept, as used in Italy, Spain, France and Portugal under Roman Law* which makes a person a formal suspect, which means they have the legal rights of an arrested person: the right to a lawyer and to remain silent (as Kate McCann did when she was an arguido.)

*Germany uses Romano-Germanic Law which is quite similar, so I am not sure if Germany also has the concept of 'arguido' German equivalent.
 
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Vixen said:
..... An arguido is a latin legal concept, as used in Italy, Spain, France and Portugal under Roman Law* which makes a person a formal suspect, which means they have the legal rights of an arrested person: the right to a lawyer and to remain silent (as Kate McCann did when she was an arguido.)
....
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Does that mean that someone who is not deemed "a formal suspect" -- in other words, everybody else -- does not have the right to a lawyer and to remain silent? That can't be right, can it?
 
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Bob001 said:
Does that mean that someone who is not deemed "a formal suspect" -- in other words, everybody else -- does not have the right to a lawyer and to remain silent? That can't be right, can it?
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The police can ask anybody they like to come in for questioning any time they like. If one of those persons is a real suspect (= probable cause they were involved in the crime in question) then a failure to let them know they are a suspect could prejudice any later trial.

Kate McCann was made an arguido. Was given fifty questions, of which I believe she answered only one. I dare say her lawyer advised her to keep shtum because what mother with a missing child wouldn't want to tell the police everything they know of the circumstances surrounding it? However, as an arguido (formal suspect), your words can be used against you in court and in any case the burden of proof is on the police and prosecutors, so the reasoning is, 'If they think I did it, let them prove it! It is not in my interest to help them convict me! (Which is what they are after, with their trick questions).'

So when the tabloids report the latest arguido, the German anti-social paedophhile offender (also recidivist burglar and thief) refused to answer the Portuguese police's questions as an arguido as to where he was on the night the little girl went missing, it is not really so strange he refuses to answer.

The papers report that the McCanns 'welcome' this development. I wonder if this is because they themselves can no longer come under suspicion. That has to be a relief, I guess.
 
Vixen said:
The police can ask anybody they like to come in for questioning any time they like. If one of those persons is a real suspect (= probable cause they were involved in the crime in question) then a failure to let them know they are a suspect could prejudice any later trial.
.....
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And I assume that most people in most circumstances are free to decline the invitation if they want. "Arguido" sounds similar to the Miranda warning in the U.S.: "Anything you say...."
 
Vixen said:
The police can ask anybody they like to come in for questioning any time they like. If one of those persons is a real suspect (= probable cause they were involved in the crime in question) then a failure to let them know they are a suspect could prejudice any later trial.
.....
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I note that "probable cause" is sufficient grounds to actually make an arrest. The standard for "arguido" is likely much less than that.
 
I'd love to see a count of the number of black girls who have gone missing without international publicity since Madeleine was neglected by her parents so badly that it cost her her life.

Yes, all of them, obviously, but the number would be interesting to know.

A useful addendum would be how many of the black mothers were charged with child endangerment for leaving small children unsupervised, unlike the McCanns who have turned it into the only reality show longer than the Kardashians.
 
The Atheist said:
I'd love to see a count of the number of black girls who have gone missing without international publicity since Madeleine was neglected by her parents so badly that it cost her her life.
.....
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Her parents will suffer horribly all their lives for their lapse of judgment. But I suspect that they are not the only parents who have left a child alone in a resort hotel room for a short time while they dined nearby. "Neglected so badly" isn't really a fair picture.
 
Bob001 said:
Her parents will suffer horribly all their lives for their lapse of judgment.
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Deservedly so.

Bob001 said:
But I suspect that they are not the only parents who have left a child alone in a resort hotel room for a short time while they dined nearby. "Neglected so badly" isn't really a fair picture.
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These women were all arrested for leaving children alone:

https://www.yourtango.com/crime/sin...son-charged-after-leaving-kids-older-daughter

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/mom-arrested-for-leaving-children-alone-to-go-to-work

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/21/living/mom-arrested-left-girl-park-parents/index.html

Were the McCanns charged?
 
The Atheist said:
I'd love to see a count of the number of black girls who have gone missing without international publicity since Madeleine was neglected by her parents so badly that it cost her her life.

Yes, all of them, obviously, but the number would be interesting to know.

A useful addendum would be how many of the black mothers were charged with child endangerment for leaving small children unsupervised, unlike the McCanns who have turned it into the only reality show longer than the Kardashians.
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It's not just that she was a pretty white kid that had plenty of cute photos to use it was and is also a class thing. Nipping out for a boozy meal is OK when you are white, professionals in the UK, nipping out for a pint or two to the pub and abandoning your kids is the most heinous child neglect when you are chavs!
 
Bob001 said:
And I assume that most people in most circumstances are free to decline the invitation if they want. "Arguido" sounds similar to the Miranda warning in the U.S.: "Anything you say...."
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If the police ask you to go along, you go along. The point of being an arguido is that the police can now carry on investigating you at their leisure without having to arrest you formally. This does seem a little unfair because once you are arrested and charged, you and your lawyers are entitled to know what the evidence is against you. As an arguido, you don't know what they know.
 
Bob001 said:
I note that "probable cause" is sufficient grounds to actually make an arrest. The standard for "arguido" is likely much less than that.
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You have to remember that in the so-called 'latin' countries, the legal system is not adversarial as in the UK/USA Anglo-Saxon model, it is to do with a tribunal style court gathering as much information as possible, and this can take a ridiculous amount of time, as with the little boy murdered in France case. It is not enough to have enough evidence to formally charge you, it is to do with knowing as much as possible about the crime in the finest of detail.
 
The Atheist said:
I'd love to see a count of the number of black girls who have gone missing without international publicity since Madeleine was neglected by her parents so badly that it cost her her life.

Yes, all of them, obviously, but the number would be interesting to know.

A useful addendum would be how many of the black mothers were charged with child endangerment for leaving small children unsupervised, unlike the McCanns who have turned it into the only reality show longer than the Kardashians.
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Comparisons are odious. Each case has its own individual merits. It has always been the way that that some cases grab the public's attention, whilst most, just merit a small paragraph in a provincial local newspaper, which nobody reads.

As an example, that Karen Matthews woman was a 'benefit-scrounger' scruffy n'er-do-well but got a LOT of publicity in the Shannon Matthews faked kidnap case. Then there was Damilola Taylor, 10, murdered, of Nigerian ethnicity who also received a MASSIVE amount of headlines.

People are intrigued by the McCann case because it is an intriguing riddle as to what happened to the little girl.
 
Darat said:
It's not just that she was a pretty white kid that had plenty of cute photos to use it was and is also a class thing. Nipping out for a boozy meal is OK when you are white, professionals in the UK, nipping out for a pint or two to the pub and abandoning your kids is the most heinous child neglect when you are chavs!
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The first chapter of Owen Jones' book "Chavs" is a very detailed comparison with the Shannon Matthews case from less than a year later, it's an interesting read.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
The first chapter of Owen Jones' book "Chavs" is a very detailed comparison with the Shannon Matthews case from less than a year later, it's an interesting read.
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Both cases became huge public interest because journalists smelt a rat and spun it as a 'whodunnit?' The McCanns aren't posh, they both come from ordinary working class backgrounds.
 
Vixen said:
If the police ask you to go along, you go along. The point of being an arguido is that the police can now carry on investigating you at their leisure without having to arrest you formally.
....
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I note that in the U.S. you don't have to "go along" unless you are under arrest. And the police don't have to give you any special warning that they are investigating you unless/until they actually question you as a suspect.
 
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The Atheist said:
Deservedly so.

These women were all arrested for leaving children alone:

https://www.yourtango.com/crime/sin...son-charged-after-leaving-kids-older-daughter

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/mom-arrested-for-leaving-children-alone-to-go-to-work

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/21/living/mom-arrested-left-girl-park-parents/index.html

Were the McCanns charged?
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At least two of those cases are ridiculous. It's hard to believe that the charges regarding the 14-year-old and the 9-year-old (with a house key and a cell phone) could go very far. And all happened in U.S. cities, not a Spanish resort village. None are comparable to the McCanns.
 
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