• Due to ongoing issues caused by Search, it has been temporarily disabled
  • Please excuse the mess, we're moving the furniture and restructuring the forum categories
  • You may need to edit your signatures.

    When we moved to Xenfora some of the signature options didn't come over. In the old software signatures were limited by a character limit, on Xenfora there are more options and there is a character number and number of lines limit. I've set maximum number of lines to 4 and unlimited characters.

Ed The Fascism Checklist, Trump 2025

I suppose this could go anywhere, but Trump has gone beyond his usual deranged rhetoric of calling for the arrest and imprisonment of his political rivals, and called explicitly for for the complete overthrow of civil society, using as his excuse that the Supreme court has granted him "absolute immunity."

“We should throw Jack Smith out with them, the mentally deranged people. Jack Smith should be considered mentally deranged, and he should be thrown out of the country,”

Exile? The government declaring its opponents mentally unfit and thus unprotected by law? It may be apocryphal that Trump had the speeches of Hitler on his bedside table, but whatever he did have it was sure as hell not The Gulag Archipelago!
I can think of one other mentally deranged person who could do with being thrown out of the USA right about now, Donny... ;)
 
Similarly, federal employees have been prohibited from talking politics on the job for many years now. I'm guessing you've never worked in a corporate office or for the federal government. I've done both.
The US govt. has no blanket policy prohibiting federal employees from discussing politics at work. Employees are only prohibited from actively campaigning while at work (though some managers do prohibit political discussions, at least in non-private settings).
 
MG is probably thinking about the Hatch Act:

Hatch Act Overview​

The Hatch Act, a federal law passed in 1939, limits certain political activities of federal employees, as well as some state, D.C., and local government employees who work in connection with federally funded programs. The law’s purposes are to ensure that federal programs are administered in a nonpartisan fashion, to protect federal employees from political coercion in the workplace, and to ensure that federal employees are advanced based on merit and not based on political affiliation.
 

Latest episode of Ezra Kleins interviews a women who wrote a book, Origins of Elected Strongmen.
Far better way to look at trump than just calling fascist.

ETA: Very short version, its all about transactional politics, personal ego, and loyalty to the leader rather than any sort of ideological program of note.
 
Last edited:
it goes a bit beyond that: the core principle of Authoritarianism is that you give up your authority to someone above you in exchange for gaining unquestioned authority over those below you: at least your family, but also people who are deemed to outsiders. You become the governor for the potentate, holding power not in your but his name - this neatly sidesteps any issues of competency or merit.
 
IMO, the only reason Trump is an authoritarian is in service to his ego. His profound insecurity is such he can't brook folks disagreeing with him. In a real sense, calling him a fascist gives him too much credit. It implies he has some...thought....ideology? IDK, just more than is actually there.

ETA, on a possibly more practical note, it also is a worn out cliche to call right wing pols fascists. Doesn't have any impact any more, just like the right calling any left wing pol a socialist, commie, Marxist or what not. Nobody listens or cares.
 
Last edited:
IMO, the only reason Trump is an authoritarian is in service to his ego. His profound insecurity is such he can't brook folks disagreeing with him. In a real sense, calling him a fascist gives him too much credit. It implies he has some...thought....ideology? IDK, just more than is actually there.
That's part of his fascist persona. His basest instincts, his crocodilian brain really, revolve pretty much around his own personal interests, mostly where his next meal is coming from. That corresponds quite a bit with the fascist mentality and ideology.
ETA, on a possibly more practical note, it also is a worn out cliche to call right wing pols fascists. Doesn't have any impact any more, just like the right calling any left wing pol a socialist, commie, Marxist or what not. Nobody listens or cares.
Not so much "calls" them as "describes" them.
 
If you want an objective list, look for one that existed before Trump.
Agreed. From the relevant wiki:

Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Without palingenetic ultranationalism, there is no "genuine fascism" according to Griffin. Griffin further describes fascism as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."​

Other items from the pre-Trump checklist include violent direct action to achieve political ends, corporatist economics, aggressive expansionist foreign policy, and a cult of personality around a charismatic leader.
 
Agreed. From the relevant wiki:

Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Without palingenetic ultranationalism, there is no "genuine fascism" according to Griffin. Griffin further describes fascism as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."​

Other items from the pre-Trump checklist include violent direct action to achieve political ends, corporatist economics, aggressive expansionist foreign policy, and a cult of personality around a charismatic leader.
In which case MAGA is certainly ticking the boxes....

(i) Make America Great Again
(ii) America First
(iii) Anti-woke

and the rest could almost have been written with MAGA in mind though I wouldn't have accused Trump of "aggressive expansionist foreign policy" until his very recent comments regarding the Panama Canal, Canada and Greenland ....
 
Last edited:
Agreed. From the relevant wiki:

Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Without palingenetic ultranationalism, there is no "genuine fascism" according to Griffin. Griffin further describes fascism as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."​

Other items from the pre-Trump checklist include violent direct action to achieve political ends, corporatist economics, aggressive expansionist foreign policy, and a cult of personality around a charismatic leader.
Would this fit Spanish fascism under Franco?
ETA: Changed France to Franco
 
Last edited:
Yes, I did, but Apple thought that France made more sense.
LOL.

I'd say Franco pretty much checks all the boxes, especially the core ideas of national failure followed by rebirth through ultranationalism under the great unifying leader.
 
In which case MAGA is certainly ticking the boxes....

(i) Make America Great Again
(ii) America First
(iii) Anti-woke

and the rest could almost have been written with MAGA in mind though I wouldn't have accused Trump of "aggressive expansionist foreign policy" until his very recent comments regarding the Panama Canal, Canada and Greenland ....
Also, "Only I can fix it".
 
I believe it became obvious early on, and even more obvious given Donny's visible decline recently, that any even slightly complex fascist agenda being driven by the Trump team is coming from the younger, more competent, more vicious, more Einsatzgruppen advisors. Not the old orange toad himself. He's the front man.
 
I believe it became obvious early on, and even more obvious given Donny's visible decline recently, that any even slightly complex fascist agenda being driven by the Trump team is coming from the younger, more competent, more vicious, more Einsatzgruppen advisors. Not the old orange toad himself. He's the front man.
Which is why I believe that they'll happily remove him when he is no longer useful to them.
 
I believe it became obvious early on, and even more obvious given Donny's visible decline recently, that any even slightly complex fascist agenda being driven by the Trump team is coming from the younger, more competent, more vicious, more Einsatzgruppen advisors. Not the old orange toad himself. He's the front man.
I love your paranoia.
 
Which is why I believe that they'll happily remove him when he is no longer useful to them.
True. It is also why we should be ignoring Trump's garbled rants and concentrating on the history and plans of those advisors and backers instead. My short exploration so far indicates a veritable battalion of glittery-eyed Goeths just itching for the opportunity to launch pogroms against invented enemies.
 
Perhaps we should consider what sort of inaugural speech he'll make. Full on fascist or more stable? A demand for Danzig perhaps?
 
Perhaps we should consider what sort of inaugural speech he'll make. Full on fascist or more stable? A demand for Danzig perhaps?
My prediction is that Trump will make his standard the marxist-communist-fascist-loony-liberal-Democrats-and-criminal-immigrants-have-nearly-destroyed-America-and-only-I-can-fix-it speech at his rally on Sunday and then do a 180 and claim that he will unite all Americans on Monday.
 
Trump will talk about what's really important: that his Inauguration Crowd is bigger than last time, which was bigger than Obama's, and if you disagree you are an Enemy of the State.
Doesn't matter what he says. It will be garbled fascist nonsense and mean nothing. Less than nothing. He could be reciting the phone book backwards. Nevertheless, Fox and the talk-backs and the MAGAchuds will lap it up and try to make sense of it. Pareidolia for the right-wing morons.
 
I'd say Franco pretty much checks all the boxes, especially the core ideas of national failure followed by rebirth through ultranationalism under the great unifying leader.
I was in doubt about the „rebirth“ criterium. Or maybe it is so vague that any major change can be termed a rebirth. But I must admit that I know too little about Franco and Falangism.
 
Which is why I believe that they'll happily remove him when he is no longer useful to them.
He is useful as long as he is the only Messiah that can hold MAGA together. If he is incapacitated, can Vance command the same respect? In a dictatorship like Venezuela, an unknown vice-president has managed to take over the reigns and extend the power. Is Vance a Madura?
 
I was in doubt about the „rebirth“ criterium. Or maybe it is so vague that any major change can be termed a rebirth. But I must admit that I know too little about Franco and Falangism.
Same here, but reading though the wiki it looks like his regime took on most of the characteristics of fascism at first (including a sort of rebirth narrative) and then mutated over time, even restoring the monarchy by the end. Here is an excerpt on point:

Francisco Cobo Romero writes that, besides neutering left-wing advances by using an essentially antiliberal brand of ultranationalism, "in its attempt to emulate Fascism, Francoism resorted to the sacralization and mystification of the motherland, raising it into an object of cult, and coating it with a liturgic divinization of its leader".​

More on sacralization here.
 
1. Censor the media
I don't expect we'll actually see much of this, beyond vague threats to pull FCC licenses or lead MAGA boycotts.
2. Change election laws in such a way that opposition parties will never win.
Even deep red states occasionally elect a Democrat into local office or a Congressional seat, so never is a very strong claim. I wouldn't be surprised at extensions of common disenfranchisement tactics, e.g. ID laws which include gun licenses but not university issued cards.
3. Weaponise the judicial system and DOJ to investigate and prosecute dissenters.
I fully expect we will see more of this, as we did with Hunter Biden.
4. Give tax cuts to the wealthy and oligarchs to have their continued support.
This is a gimme; Reagan did it, Bush did it, Trump did it last time.
5. Internment camps for immigrants.
I'm on the fence here. American voters favor mass deportation but would likely balk at footage of camps.
6. Give the police unchecked power.
Nope; Chauvin wannabes will still face trial.
7. Use the military on protesters.
Probably not going to happen, in part because we won't see that much mass protest this time around.
8. Defund education.
At the federal level, no doubt.
9. Take away protections from LGBTQ+ community.
Already underway.
10. Marginalize the opposition; in this case, isolate and punish democrats and blue states.
No doubt we will see examples of this; happened last time around as well.
 
  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
    Seems to be moving into the Lebensraum phase, though it remains to be seen if it's just make-believe or something he's actually trying to draw up plans for with crayons and sharpies between TV, golf, and hamberder sessions. Wake me up if he gets out his army men and starts wargaming scenarios on his bed. The "pew-pew" sounds from his room will be a give-away.

  2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
    Needs no further explanation. Most of these don't, in fact.

  3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
    Yup.

  4. Supremacy of the Military
    Yup. Also love how his supporters keep using the lack of new wars as an excuse to love him, only to do a 180 and enthusiastically support his sabre-rattling once he starts talking about invasions. But that's cults for you, I guess.

  5. Rampant Sexism
    Yup. Add to this a fear of people not conforming to gender roles. Nonbinaries and trans people aren't just a convenient scapegoat and target of discrimination, they probably also annoy the heck out of fascists who want everything to fit into neat little categories that can be easily understood.

  6. Controlled Mass Media
    He'll probably keep putting pressure on media that tries to be objective or liberal-leaning. edit: Heck, he'll put pressure on all media. The ones that bend over backwards for him will have to worship him even more. Whoever steps out of line will be mercilessly chastised.

  7. Obsession with National Security
    Yup.

  8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
    I personally see less Bible-thumping from Dump as I do from other presidents, but yup.

  9. Corporate Power is Protected
    Yup. Although deportations and tariffs will probably be painful for them.

  10. Labor Power is Suppressed
    Yup.

  11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    Yup. Expect more anti-intellectualism, gutting of school budgets, and Umbridge-style interference in curriculum, as well as seething anger at 'woke' movies, games, etc.

  12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    Yup. They'll keep using the justice system as a weapon.

  13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

  14. Fraudulent Elections
    Yup. The 2028 election will be a ◊◊◊◊ show.
eta: https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
 
Last edited:
Who knew? Deporting aliens is costly. That is, if you use trasportation. You could use the army, round them up and march them on foot, camping daily. Who would carry the tents? the army?
Republicans’ prized immigration bill, the Laken Riley Act, is apparently too expensive to implement, according to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
More than 70 amendments to the bill have been filed, delaying its passage further. The bill enjoys support from Senate Democrats as well, and even has two Democratic co-sponsors in Ruben Gallego and John Fetterman. Among some of the most egregious (and expensive) parts of the bill is the power it grants to state and local governments to help carry out immigrant detention, and some of the amendments concern that provision.
 
Republicans could do so many things they claim to want to do, if they were just willing to forego tax cuts for billionaires.
 
Looking forward to our resident “centrists” explaining how blatantly unconstitutional executive orders and pardoning violent insurrectionists isn’t fascist.
 
Doesn't matter what he says. It will be garbled fascist nonsense and mean nothing. Less than nothing. He could be reciting the phone book backwards. Nevertheless, Fox and the talk-backs and the MAGAchuds will lap it up and try to make sense of it. Pareidolia for the right-wing morons.
Quoting myself from a few days ago, I refer you all to what MAGA is trying to say about justifying the latest Trump ramblings.
 
Back
Top Bottom