The Biden Presidency (continued)

[Olmstead]

Ziggurat, the coverup is in your head. If he wasn't capable of running again, then it makes no sense to cover anything up, as he'd lose anyway. If he was capable of running again, well, then he wasn't as bad off as you think he was.

At worst, people close to him were slow in realising that he was truly declining, but then he actually did step back, so the right choice was made in the end. Unfortunately, the circumstances and timing were unfavorable.

What exactly would your coverup conspiracy achieve?

 

[Ziggurat]

I'd say after age 75 ALL adults go through some mental decline. No conspiracy there.

I'm not alleging that they made him go through a decline, so this makes no sense. And Biden had more than "some mental decline". He had significant mental decline. Lots of people that age do, but absolutely not everyone does.

You're on a wild goose chase over a dead-man walking. Proud of yourself?

You're in denial. Proud of yourself?

 

[Hercules56]

I'm not alleging that they made him go through a decline, so this makes no sense.

No one suggested that. Are you over age 75?

And Biden had more than "some mental decline". He had significant mental decline.

Is that your professional diagnosis based on a personal examination, or your non-professional hunch based on Youtube videos?

Lots of people that age do, but absolutely not everyone does.

You're in denial. Proud of yourself?

Im not the one dancing on the body of a dead-man walking because I hate Democrats.

 

[Ziggurat]

At worst, people close to him were slow in realising that he was truly declining

That's laughable. They knew. How could they not? There's an entire book being written about how they knew and tried to keep it secret.

What exactly would your coverup conspiracy achieve?

If it succeeded, getting Biden elected. Why are you under the impression that something must be guaranteed to succeed in order for people to try it? People take long-shot bets all the time.

 

[Olmstead]

That's laughable. They knew. How could they not? There's an entire book being written about how they knew and tried to keep it secret.

Because it's easy to delude oneself about one's own health and the health of others, e.g. he's just a little under the weather today, it's just some normal age-related fatigue, etc.

If it succeeded, getting Biden elected. Why are you under the impression that something must be guaranteed to succeed in order for people to try it? People take long-shot bets all the time.

They realised that he was definitely incapable of performing his duty, but thought that he might be capable of winning the election? Really?

Oh, right, you're a Trump supporter. Nevermind this makes perfect sense. No, I can't explain why Trump voters don't seem to care that their president is clearly incapable of performing his duty.

 

[plague311]

Nope, didn't say that either. I said nothing at all about how anyone should vote.

They were your words I quoted. Try saying what you mean then.

But are you honestly saying that the primaries would have played out the same if his advisors were up front an open about his condition?

I don't care. Also, the implication that any political campaign advisors are "up front an (sp) open" about 90% of what's going on is ridiculous. Right now, and in his last administration, Trump repeatedly lied about his weight, height, and cognitive abilities. You think his advisors are up front about it? You think we have all of the information about Trump? You think his advisors have released everything, in detail, about this ins and outs of his cognitive abilities? The reason it's important is because you are holding one administration to a standard that you don't really give a ◊◊◊◊ about, right? We know Trump lies about his physical and mental health because the things he has his doctors say is so patently absurd it's crazy.

Are you going to hold them to the same level when Trump is confirmed to have multiple mental health deficiencies once he leaves office? I'm sure you will lol. After all, you're applying your poutrage equally right now.

Of course it wouldn't have.

Cool.

That's just a fact, one which you aren't even contesting.

I don't pretend to know things that didn't happen. I'm not contesting it because you're making it up in your head and, as you've shown repeatedly, that's not a place I want to go.

And what are you even upset at me for?

I'm not, I'm mocking you for being a pearl clutching hypocrite.

I didn't hide Biden's condition.

I don't think anyone did as there's no evidence anyone did.

I didn't give him that condition.

I'm sure you wished it on him more than once.

I didn't even expose his condition.

Yes, you're a flaccid player in this game, and?

Are you glad his advisors tried to hide it?

I don't know that they did. I don't know when the cancer was noticed, what affects it had on him, etc. It's you that's clutching your pearls like you have all of the details.

Are you honestly arguing that it was the right thing to do?

I'm not arguing with you at all because I'm not that stupid. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're just saying ◊◊◊◊ and getting mad people aren't agreeing with you. That's all this is. I've never seen someone so desperate for validation since Jerry McGuire got fired from his job.

 

[Ziggurat]

They were your words I quoted. Try saying what you mean then.

I did say what I mean. I said "top shape" but I never said anything about how anyone should vote. That was entirely your own invention and your own misinterpretation.

Are you going to hold them to the same level when Trump is confirmed to have multiple mental health deficiencies once he leaves office?

I won't need to, because the press won't cover for him like they covered for Biden.

I don't know that they did. I don't know when the cancer was noticed, what affects it had on him, etc. It's you that's clutching your pearls like you have all of the details.

I'm not talking about his cancer. I'm talking about his mental decline. Do keep up.

 

[Ziggurat]

Because it's easy to delude oneself about one's own health and the health of others, e.g. he's just a little under the weather today, it's just some normal age-related fatigue, etc.

They actively hid his condition, limited press access to him, got press questions ahead of interviews and wrote out pre-scripted responses for him to read. They weren't caught by surprise, they knew.

They realised that he was definitely incapable of performing his duty, but thought that he might be capable of winning the election? Really?

Yes.

You can pretend that I'm just a conspiracy theorist all you want to, but this stuff is coming out. One of the main arguments often used against conspiracy theories is that eventually people talk. Guess what? They're talking.

 

[plague311]

I did say what I mean. I said "top shape" but I never said anything about how anyone should vote. That was entirely your own invention and your own misinterpretation.

So you brought up "Top Shape" for no reason? It was brought up in the context of Biden being fit to run for office, if it wasn't about votes then, and I mean this seriously, what in the ◊◊◊◊ were you talking about? What relevance would "top shape" have had?

I won't need to, because the press won't cover for him like they covered for Biden.

Pffhahahahahaha is that why multiple conservative press outlets have lost millions, and one about a billion, because they repeatedly spread the lies the Trump administration made about stolen votes? How about his constant inability to finish a sentence coherently? Should we take a look at some of the Newsmax, Fox News, and OANN articles about that? Can you link me to some?

I'm not talking about his cancer. I'm talking about his mental decline. Do keep up.

Lol ok, Zigg. Either way, I didn't see any cognitive decline that concerned me anymore than I'm concerned about Trump now or that I'd be concerned about any other 80 year old. If people wanted to vote for him then that's up to them. Just like you voted for a complete and total dip ◊◊◊◊ that talks like the predictive text of an iPhone and thinks he's the best at everything while not being able to walk down a handicap ramp.

 

[Tero]

Clearly the MAGNA CARTA was written for Trump to deport aliens to El Salvador! Kristi Noem knows history!

 

[dirtywick]

As far as I'm concerned, Biden was in good shape when he won the election in 2020. When he started to go into a noticeable decline is sort of unknown, and I don't have the time to go back over the four years of his presidency to look for signs of it.

To me it looks like Biden's decline was known among the Democrats, even if the cause (now presumed to be his cancer) wasn't. Even if it was, it's certainly possible his handlers thought he stood a better chance of winning against Trump than Harris; after all, he did it 2020, and Harris wasn't all that popular. So they gambled: run Biden, let him win the election, and position Harris to take over if Biden became unsuitable for office.

But one disastrous debate brought Biden's cognitive state into the open, so they had to move up their game plan and run Harris instead. It didn't work. She lost both the popular vote, albeit by a mere 1.5 of percentage points, and the electoral college, giving the USA Trump instead.

This scenario appears to fit the facts as we currently know them.

i think it’s possible his dropping out of the race and his cancer diagnosis might be linked.

 

[Ziggurat]

So you brought up "Top Shape" for no reason? It was brought up in the context of Biden being fit to run for office, if it wasn't about votes then, and I mean this seriously, what in the ◊◊◊◊ were you talking about? What relevance would "top shape" have had?

Do you not understand the difference between "should" and "will"? People WILL vote differently based upon certain information even if you think they shouldn't. You claimed I was making a "should" claim when I was making a "will" claim, one which you still aren't even contesting.

God, you're bad at reading comprehension.

 

[plague311]

Do you not understand the difference between "should" and "will"? People WILL vote differently based upon certain information even if you think they shouldn't. You claimed I was making a "should" claim when I was making a "will" claim, one which you still aren't even contesting.

God, you're bad at reading comprehension.

Lol yeah, that's about the standard Trump cult response. It's always someone else, isn't it, Zigg? It's never you. It's not that you're ◊◊◊◊ at relaying the actual points you're trying to make. It's not that you have an undying passion for semantic quibbles. It's not that you refuse to own up to being a hypocrite. It's always everyone else. That's the Trumper mantra and you wear it proudly. Why is everyone else the problem?

 

[Ziggurat]

Lol yeah, that's about the standard Trump cult response. It's always someone else, isn't it, Zigg? It's never you. It's not that you're ◊◊◊◊ at relaying the actual points you're trying to make. It's not that you have an undying passion for semantic quibbles. It's not that you refuse to own up to being a hypocrite. It's always everyone else. That's the Trumper mantra and you wear it proudly. Why is everyone else the problem?

I'm getting a lot of flak, must be over the target.

 

[plague311]

I'm getting a lot of flak, must be over the target.

Kind of. For someone accusing me of having terrible reading comprehension, you must have worse. I laid it right out for you.

It's not just the target. It's that you're passionately accusing the left of doing something while the administration in charge is actively doing the same ◊◊◊◊ you're crying about here, yet you seem to be tight lipped on that. You're not in any of the Trump threads complaining about how he can't speak coherently, how he can't remember locations, or names of people or how he can't hold a consistent thought in his head. None of that seems to be an issue at all, but this "scandal" about Biden?! Why, heaven's to Betsy! You will not abide by such...dishonesty, and such a disgraceful coverup! Trump stating that he has better physical stats than a UFC fighter? That he has the best cognitive abilities of any man alive? Absolutely none of his aids or people surrounding him making the slightest peep bother you? Nope. He lies, and lies, and lies about his mental and physical health and you have nothing to say about it. That's why you're catching flak. No one would give you ◊◊◊◊ if you spent this amount of time attacking the same behavior by Trump, but you're a partisan. That's now what partisan's do. At least own it.

 

[Hercules56]

I'm getting a lot of flak, must be over the target.

That's what happens when you kick a dead-man walking.

 

[plague311]

That's what happens when you kick a dead-man walking.

Not to be a dick but you've been kicking Abrego Garcia since the moment he got deported to a possible death, by accusing him of everything from being a gang member to a wife beater, and carrying water for the Trump admin on his deportation. I don't think you have any room to be chastising others on kicking a dead-man walking. You seem to suffer from selective outrage as well. Must be something with the skin color.

 

[Ziggurat]

Why do leftist keep picking the dumbest hills to die on?

 

[Hercules56]

Not to be a dick but you've been kicking Abrego Garcia since the moment he got deported to a possible death, by accusing him of everything from being a gang member to a wife beater, and carrying water for the Trump admin on his deportation. I don't think you have any room to be chastising others on kicking a dead-man walking. You seem to suffer from selective outrage as well. Must be something with the skin color.

rule 10 reported. Lets stick to the topic K? (and lay off the hypocritical accusations of racism).

 

[plague311]

Why do leftist keep picking the dumbest hills to die on?

Who's dying on a hill? I'm going to walk away just fine, whistling a tune. You're the one dying on this hill, buddy. You NEED other people to be outraged and nobody seems to really give a ◊◊◊◊ and that bothers you. Right? I mean, you seem to be pretty butt hurt that no one will join in your chorus of woes.

Hercules, learn what the ◊◊◊◊ "hypocritical" means. That would imply that I'm a racist but calling you a racist. I'm not a racist. Report whatever you want, it doesn't stop you from actually being a hypocrite. Learn how to ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ quote and report ◊◊◊◊ too.

 

[Hercules56]

...Hercules, learn what the ◊◊◊◊ "hypocritical" means. That would imply that I'm a racist but calling you a racist. I'm not a racist. Report whatever you want, it doesn't stop you from actually being a hypocrite. Learn how to ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ quote and report ◊◊◊◊ too.

I know what it means and the term was used appropriately. Now get back to the topic.

 

[plague311]

I know what it means and the term was used appropriately. Now get back to the topic.

You're the one accusing me of being a racist hypocrite in this thread with no actual evidence or proof. Am I the topic? You seem to think so.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I'm getting a lot of flak, must be over the target.

No. It's because you are trolling the forum.

 

[Hercules56]

You're the one accusing me of being a racist hypocrite in this thread with no actual evidence or proof. Am I the topic? You seem to think so.

Again, try focusing on the topic, which is the Biden presidency. I know you can do it.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Biden signed deal that Trump is trying to take credit for:

Trump Takes Credit for Deals on Biden's Watch

"The White House this week labeled President Donald Trump 'the dealmaker in chief,' claiming he has secured more than $2 trillion in investment agreements during his tour through oil-rich Middle Eastern monarchies," the Washington Post

politicalwire.com

 

[thaiboxerken]

The Biden economy was wildly successful:

Bidenomics Was Wildly Successful

The president’s domestic record wasn’t just extraordinary. It might put Democrats back in power in four years.

newrepublic.com

 

[Hercules56]

The Biden economy was wildly successful:

Bidenomics Was Wildly Successful

The president’s domestic record wasn’t just extraordinary. It might put Democrats back in power in four years.

newrepublic.com

My 401k would probably be $20,000 higher if he had won.

My Vanguard account? $40,000 higher.

 

[plague311]

Again, try focusing on the topic, which is the Biden presidency. I know you can do it.

It was going just fine until you inserted yourself by trying to take the moral high ground while ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ on an illegally deported immigrant.

 

[Hercules56]

Guys, let's please stay on the topic of the Biden presidency.

 

[plague311]

That's what happens when you kick a dead-man walking.

*Looks around for whatever the ◊◊◊◊ this had to do with the Biden Presidency*

Nope, don't see it.

 

[Hercules56]

*Looks around for whatever the ◊◊◊◊ this had to do with the Biden Presidency*

Nope, don't see it.

I was responding to someone talking about a so-called conspiracy by the Biden admin to hide evidence of his illness, be it physical or mental.

Understand now?

 

[TragicMonkey]

The Biden economy was wildly successful:

Ah, but according to some people, it's preferable to have a tanked economy achieved by one fool than to have a booming economy achieved by a number of people working behind-the-scenes. What matters is principle rather than principal.

 

[kookbreaker]

I'm getting a lot of flak, must be over the target.

Ah, the r/conservative gambit "tHe DoWnvOTes pRovE i'M rIGht!!!!"

 

[angrysoba]

That's laughable. They knew. How could they not?
There's an entire book being written about how they knew and tried to keep it secret.
If it succeeded, getting Biden elected. Why are you under the impression that something must be guaranteed to succeed in order for people to try it? People take long-shot bets all the time.

Have any of us read this book yet or at least have an accurate gloss?

I'm wondering how much they consider him to have dementia and to what extent he was physically incapitated.

With any campaign, there are always going to be PR agents hovering around worrying about whether this or that looks weak or strong or on message, etc...?

 

[Ziggurat]

Who's dying on a hill? I'm going to walk away just fine, whistling a tune.

You’re whistling a tune past the graveyard. The Democratic Party is imploding, and the last thing on earth you’re willing to do is engage in a little introspection.

 

[Pixel42]

Why do leftist keep picking the dumbest hills to die on?

Why do rightists keep making an almighty fuss about the mote in someone else's eye whilst wilfully ignoring the beam in their own?

 

[Ziggurat]

Have any of us read this book yet or at least have an accurate gloss?

I’ve read a few excerpts.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

That's laughable. They knew. How could they not? There's an entire book being written about how they knew and tried to keep it secret.

If it succeeded, getting Biden elected. Why are you under the impression that something must be guaranteed to succeed in order for people to try it? People take long-shot bets all the time.

What's the book called and who's writing it?

There was a good reason to 'try it' - incumbents generally have a big advantage if things are going OK, which was the case with Biden. Problem is things were going a little too well. Biden was definitely suffering mental and physical decline, as you would expect at his age. Everybody could see it. But he was still able to perform his duties as president, and he clearly believed he could go the distance. He wasn't the first president to be in this position, and almost certainly won't be the last (one could argue that the current president is in the same boat - I bet there will be a book or two about that too).

Why do I say 'too well'? Because if Biden had shown serious mental decline then Democrats would have had to look for a better candidate. I thought they would have started doing that soon after he was elected in 2020. But they didn't because things were going too well.

But was there a conspiracy to cover up what decline he did have? If so they did a poor job of it. You say people close to him "actively hid his condition, limited press access to him, got press questions ahead of interviews and wrote out pre-scripted responses for him to read.". But that's not a conspiracy - it's their job to help the president do his job - even when he isn't in tip-top condition. Trump's handlers were/are doing (or attempting to do) the same. The question is when does this job cross over into being deliberate malfeasance? Being brain-dead and controlled by a Neuralink would qualify, but just trying to keep a rabid press at bay wouldn't. I guess we will have to wait for the book to come out to find how much 'conspiracy' was involved.

As Olmstead said, it's easy to delude oneself about one's own health and the health of others. I saw serious mental decline up close in my father. It was all too easy for me to imagine he would get better if only I put more effort in. He was showing some signs of dementia which didn't seem that bad, until he got pneumonia and had to stay in hospital for a week. The mental decline during his illness was dramatic. But people get over viruses without apparent long-term harm, so why not my father? It took 6 months of visiting the rest home every day to get him settled in (then my wicked stepmother kept moving him to other rest homes until the last one starved him to death - but that's another strory). He's been dead 8 years now and I still have dreams in which he is over 90 and perfectly lucid. The point is, I have lived that situation and it was hard to avoid deluding myself about his condition.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

The Biden economy was wildly successful:

And yet many people didn't think it was doing that well - and the truth is it wasn't. Sure the stock market was up, lots of jobs were being created and inflation was back down to where it was pre-covid - but reducing inflation just halts rising prices, it doen't make them fall. Many of those jobs are not the same quality as those which were lost during covid. Of course all this was totally expected considering that we are coming out of the worst global pandemic in human history, but people have short memories and most just want to put it out of their minds. We were supposed to be 'back to normal' by now, so why aren't we?

That's where we get to Biden's failures. The first failure was in not getting people to see that things were getting better. But to do that he would have had to actually make it better for them. People who are struggling to make ends meet aren't impressed by the stock market going up making the rich richer, or prices too high when they now have a low paying job. Furthemore many of Biden's policies to combat this - while looking good on paper - were not doing that well in practice. This led to accusations of the federal government wasting money, though in some cases the funds were allocated but not being spent.

Just concentrating on Biden's successes and not addressing the failures gives a distorted view of the true picture. Yes, the economy was 'wildly successful' if you just look at the stock market, job creation and inflation - but other indicators suggest it was headed towards stagnation. Some say Biden handed Trump a roaring economy and he destroyed it, but that's only partly true. Had a Democrat become president they would probably face a similar - if not so severe - slowdown of the economy.

There were many other issues that Trump is getting the blame for now too, for which he is only partially or not responsible. The high price of eggs was caused by bird flu, not Bidens' ecomonic policies. But the government wasn't doing enough to stamp out that virus. Trump is getting blamed for air traffic control incdents when chronic staffing shortages and antiquated equipment failures were already happening under Biden. Projects like high speed rural internet and EV charging networks were stalled or way behind schedule.

Trump is also rightly getting flack for tariffs causing chaos and DOGE defunding important operations, but Biden slapped a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs and didn't do much to ensure that federal funds were being spent wisely. The debt was balloning and Biden didn't seem to care. No doubt there was a lot of waste and inefficiency that should have been addressed. All of these failures and more paint a very different picture to the rosy one that Biden apologists present.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Several places I could put this one.

Donald says Joe didn't know anything about the 'Open Borders' he was not in control. It was others that are the actual treasonous ones and severe things should happen to them.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonald Trump
Joe Biden was not for Open Borders, he never talked about Open Borders, where criminals of all kinds, shapes, and sizes, can flow into our Country at will. It wasn't his idea to Open the Border, and almost destroy our Country, and cost us Hundreds of Billions of Dollars to get criminals out of our Country, and go through the process we are going through now. It was the people that knew he was cognitively impaired, and that took over the Autopen. They stole the Presidency of the United States, and put us in Great Danger. This is TREASON at the Highest Level! They did it to destroy our Country. The Joe Biden that everybody knew would never allow drug dealers, gang members, and the mentally insane to come into our Country totally unchecked and unvetted. All anyone has to do is look up his record. Something very severe should happen to these Treasonous Thugs that wanted to destroy our Country, but couldn't, because I came along. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!