The Biden Presidency (continued)

[Ziggurat]

And yet the job got done.

By who? You seem remarkably incurious about that. For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that Democrats do about "protecting democracy", at the end of the day, we see that doesn't actually matter to them.

At some point in the machinery of history what matters is results. It's not ideal but there you go, such is life.

And the result of the coverup of Biden's infirmity was Trump's election.

But even leaving that aside, do you understand why we have things like rules against drunk driving? It's not OK to drive drunk even if you don't hit anyone. It's not OK because it poses a risk. When the actual condition of a president is covered up, that poses a risk. Whether or not you're happy with how his administration was run, why on earth are you happy about the risk that they took with that? If there are no consequences for the people who engaged in that coverup, what sort of incentives do you think that will create for the future? Do you like such an incentive structure?

 

[Hercules56]

By who?....

President Biden. Unless you have any evidence to the contrary.

Which you don't.

 

[Resume]

Again, these people are garbage.

One of President Donald Trump’s political appointees to the Justice Department took to social media Sunday night to apparently suggest criminal charges against Jill Biden following former President Joe Biden’s cancer revelation.


Leo Terrell reshared a post from Ian Jaeger on X that featured a photo of Jill Biden and read, “She knew about President Biden’s health problems. But still wanted him to run for President. Evil.”

Terrell wrote, “Elder Abuse! Criminal Charges??”

 

[Hercules56]

Again, these people are garbage.

They really are working very hard to try to weaponize this possibly fatal cancer diagnosis for the former president.

It's really disgusting. Have they no shame?

 

[Ziggurat]

Again all you have is baseless speculation. Due to your hatred of Biden and the Democrats.

You can claim the emperor was wearing clothes all you want to, but the spell has been broken. Even partisan democrats like Van Jones can see it now. Is he driven by hatred of Biden and the Democrats? If you cannot see his decline, it's because you refuse to.

 

[Hercules56]

You can claim the emperor was wearing clothes all you want to, but the spell has been broken. Even partisan democrats like Van Jones can see it now. Is he driven by hatred of Biden and the Democrats? If you cannot see his decline, it's because you refuse to.

With all due respect, you won the election and now the man may die from cancer. Maybe let it go?

 

[Resume]

 

[Hercules56]

Biden may very well die from cancer. I watched my father in law waste away from cancer all last year, leading to a dimentia like state, then coma and death.

WTF are Republicans using this possible death sentence to score political points?? They won the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ election, and now their hated "Lets Go Brandon" may die a very painful death.

Why dance on the man's grave??

 

[Resume]

Biden may very well die from cancer. I watched my father in law waste away from cancer all last year, leading to a dimentia like state, then coma and death.

WTF are Republicans using this possible death sentence to score political points?? They won the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ election, and now their hated "Lets Go Brandon" may die a very painful death.

Why dance on the man's grave??

Because they are garbage.

 

[TragicMonkey]

By who? You seem remarkably incurious about that. For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that Democrats do about "protecting democracy", at the end of the day, we see that doesn't actually matter to them.

By the machinery of state, of course. That's who actually runs everything all the time anyway, regardless of who is technically in charge.

And the result of the coverup of Biden's infirmity was Trump's election.

How would that work? If the "cover-up" was successful people voted for Trump over Harris anyway? Or are you saying the "cover-up" wasn't succesful and that's why Trump got more votes in key states than Harris? It looks to me that Trump won regardless of whatever Biden's condition was.

But even leaving that aside, do you understand why we have things like rules against drunk driving? It's not OK to drive drunk even if you don't hit anyone. It's not OK because it poses a risk.

Ah, our old friend, argument by analogy. Inapt, which goes without saying.

When the actual condition of a president is covered up, that poses a risk. Whether or not you're happy with how his administration was run, why on earth are you happy about the risk that they took with that? If there are no consequences for the people who engaged in that coverup, what sort of incentives do you think that will create for the future? Do you like such an incentive structure?

Who said I'm happy about it? It happens. There doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it. I am not in a position to alter the workings of states and nations to suit my own whims or principles. If I were then I'd have barred all candidates over the age of 65 regardless of their health or mental condition. As for the people "who engaged in that coverup"....what were they supposed to do?

You don't seem concerned with the current president's decidedly wacky behavior, only the prior one's. Why is that? If it's so dangerous and unprincipled to have a senile person in office then why are you focused on the past and not the present? A current crisis is surely more important than a past one. Unless you are a time-traveller, in which case it's your duty to go back and get Reagan out of office.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The Job got done - if by Biden or the people put in place is irrelevant.

Neither Trump nor his posse are achieving any legislation and break Rules and Laws as matter of principle, and engage in the most extreme levels of corruption in this country's history.

No matter how bad Biden was,he was and will always be better than Trump, and and any attempts at equivalency are pathetic and self serving

 

[Hercules56]

MAGAs all over the country are celebrating Biden's possible painful death sentence and now want to politicize it to score political points as he dies.

Do you REALLY wanna be in with this crowd @Ziggurat ??

 

[Ziggurat]

How would that work? If the "cover-up" was successful people voted for Trump over Harris anyway? Or are you saying the "cover-up" wasn't succesful and that's why Trump got more votes in key states than Harris? It looks to me that Trump won regardless of whatever Biden's condition was.

The coverup successfully prevented the Democrats from running an actual competitive primary. Do you really think Biden would have been the leading candidate in the primary if they had been honest about his condition?

Who said I'm happy about it?

You keep acting like you are. And you object to criticism of what happened. It's a reasonable inference.

I am not in a position to alter the workings of states and nations to suit my own whims or principles.

You are in a position to criticize both politicians and the press.

You don't seem concerned with the current president's decidedly wacky behavior

This thread isn't about the current president.

 

[Ziggurat]

No matter how bad Biden was,he was and will always be better than Trump, and and any attempts at equivalency are pathetic and self serving

I'm not the one making any comparison to Trump here. Only Biden's defenders are, because they refuse to address the coverup on its own terms.

 

[Hercules56]

What, announcing his cancer?

First off, he didn't make that move, his handlers did. His brain is now pudding and he was never that smart to begin with, nothing he does himself can be characterized as "brilliant".

Second, the timing probably has little to do with Trump...

This thread is not about Trump, stop bringing up his name.

 

[TragicMonkey]

The Job got done - if by Biden or the people put in place is irrelevant.

Neither Trump nor his posse are achieving any legislation and break Rules and Laws as matter of principle, and engage in the most extreme levels of corruption in this country's history.

No matter how bad Biden was,he was and will always be better than Trump, and and any attempts at equivalency are pathetic and self serving

I think the key is that power corrupts, and when there's a single person with too much power there's simply more he (or she, but so far just he) can do that is corrupt. Whereas if he's ga-ga (not Lady Gaga, that would be a different crisis entirely) he's not sufficiently together to do much corruption, and the power he's supposed to be having is distributed around to the others doing the job (or being the evil cover-up conspiracy, depending on how you want to characterize them) and none of them wields the whole amount, limiting (although not eliminating) how much they can actually do, corruption-wise.

Which means we might be better off with a ga-ga (not Lady Gaga) president surrounded by petty criminals than a with-it president who is himself a criminal.

 

[Resume]

You don't seem concerned with the current president's decidedly wacky behavior, only the prior one's. Why is that? If it's so dangerous and unprincipled to have a senile person in office then why are you focused on the past and not the present? A current crisis is surely more important than a past one.

Indeed. The current POTUS not only displays wacky behavior, but is the most blatantly corrupt individual to ever hold that office, His cabinet and staff are filled with incompetents, and grifters. He intimidates the free press, threatens political opponents with prosecution, and is implementing the worst elements of Project 2025 despite claiming he knew nothing about it. His tariffs are stupidly implemented and his apologetics for them are rambling dishonesty.

Biden is gone, the piss and moaners need to piss and moan about something else.

 

[TragicMonkey]

The coverup successfully prevented the Democrats from running an actual competitive primary. Do you really think Biden would have been the leading candidate in the primary if they had been honest about his condition?

Yes, probably. The Democrats have a persistent problem with gerontocracy -- all the power remains with their oldest members, who don't relinquish it until they drop dead. They don't seriously consider younger candidates unless they're forced to, like when Obama rose up -- and remember how fiercely the older Democrats fought that. Biden was going to be their candidate regardless.

You keep acting like you are. And you object to criticism of what happened. It's a reasonable inference.

I haven't been happy about anything that's happened in politics in years. My objection to criticism is when that criticism is flawed. Such as yours in wanting to complain about a conspiracy so powerful it didn't achieve its goals, and so secretive everybody saw through it the whole time, and so dangerous that it needs to be broken up after it ceased to exist.

You are in a position to criticize both politicians and the press.

And so I do.

This thread isn't about the current president.

Just remember that you're in a position to criticize both politicians and the press, then.

 

[Hercules56]

Indeed. The current POTUS not only displays wacky behavior, but is the most blatently corrupt individual to ever hold that office, His cabinet and staff are filled with incompetents, and grifters. He intimidates the free press, threatens political opponents with prosecution, and is implementing the worst elements of Project 2025 despite claiming he knew nothing about it. His tariffs are stupidly implemented and his apologetics for them are rambling dishonesty.

Biden is gone, the piss and moaners need to piss and moan about something else.

Apparently they cant let go of their BDS.

Even with the man possibly dying a very painful and miserable death.

 

[dirtywick]

Biden is gone, the piss and moaners need to piss and moan about something else.

if you notice the current administration leaves them very few topics that they can feel “right” about. returning to biden, however irrelevant, is their safe space.

 

[Segnosaur]

This thread isn't about the current president.

While the thread is not DIRECTLY about the current president, Stubby McBonespurs was a political rival to Biden, and as the US is (functionally) has a 2 party system, comparisons between the 2 of them are relevant.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Don't worry: Trump is teaching the Political Class that Rules and Norms and Laws are severely overrated when you are in the Big Chair, and that the unlimited power bestowed by the Supreme Court to the Office should be used and abused.
So nice of Trump to create all the Precedent for a Democrat to go after Republicans and their supporters with complete impunity and immunity.

 

[Hercules56]

if you notice the current administration leaves them very few topics that they can feel “right” about. returning to biden, however irrelevant, is their safe space.

Easier to dance on a soon dead-man's grave, than celebrate a buffoon's constant failures.

 

[Ziggurat]

I haven't been happy about anything that's happened in politics in years. My objection to criticism is when that criticism is flawed. Such as yours in wanting to complain about a conspiracy so powerful it didn't achieve its goals, and so secretive everybody saw through it the whole time, and so dangerous that it needs to be broken up after it ceased to exist.

The irony here is that your own criticism of what I'm saying is fundamentally flawed in every assertion. The conspiracy DID achieve some of its goals. It got Biden elected in 2020, even though he was already starting to lose it even then. Everyone should have seen through it, but politics is a powerful drug, and plenty of people on this forum were in denial even after the 2024 debate. And a conspiracy doesn't need to be successful to do harm (and you have even conceded that it did harm). Lastly, who said anything about breaking it up? Breaking up a conspiracy is different than punishing the participants. Since when do we refrain from punishing wrongdoing because the person didn't succeed? That makes no sense.

 

[Hercules56]

The irony here is that your own criticism of what I'm saying is fundamentally flawed in every assertion. The conspiracy DID achieve some of its goals. It got Biden elected in 2020, even though he was already starting to lose it even then....

What "conspiracy" are you babbling about??

 

[Ziggurat]

What "conspiracy" are you babbling about??

The coordinated effort by his staff to hide his decline from the public. Are you still in denial that this happened? Are you still operating under the belief that he wasn't mentally declining? Or that his staff didn't notice?

 

[Hercules56]

The coordinated effort by his staff to hide his decline from the public. Are you still in denial that this happened? Are you still operating under the belief that he wasn't mentally declining? Or that his staff didn't notice?

So you're saying this conspiracy goes all the way back to 2020???

LOL

 

[Ziggurat]

So you're saying this conspiracy goes all the way back to 2020???

LOL

So you're saying that Biden was mentally in top shape until the 2024 debate? LOL indeed. Let me guess: his poor performance caught you by surprise.

 

[Hercules56]

So you're saying that Biden was mentally in top shape until the 2024 debate? LOL indeed. Let me guess: his poor performance caught you by surprise.

That's not evidence for your wild paranoid conspiracy theory.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I guess it makes a nice change from Hillary's emails.

 

[plague311]

So you're saying that Biden was mentally in top shape until the 2024 debate?

What the ◊◊◊◊ are you talking about? Are you saying a requirement for you to vote for a Presidential candidate is that they be in "top shape"? You're a Trump supporter, and you're going to ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ sit here and tell everyone, with a straight face, that Trump's mental health state is "top shape"?

This is why you get called out on ◊◊◊◊ and why it goes back to Trump because you make these requirements for Biden, or Dems in general, that you never, ever, ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ EVER hold your own party to and then you're bewildered as to why no one around here takes you Trump supporters seriously. It's deranged that you think Biden should be held to that standard but every time it's not applied to the GOP.

The biggest thing from this thread that I see is you just want people to agree with you. You want them to bitch about Biden like you're bitching about Biden, but honestly if he was suffering health or mental issues, and his administration was still run as well as it was, then that speaks to his credit. It means he had honest, intelligent, solid people around him to make sure that his agenda was moving forward.

You're doing the standard GOP line of trying to divide people more and more. The only difference is now you want Democrats to be mad and argue with each other about it too.

 

[Blue Mountain]

As far as I'm concerned, Biden was in good shape when he won the election in 2020. When he started to go into a noticeable decline is sort of unknown, and I don't have the time to go back over the four years of his presidency to look for signs of it.

To me it looks like Biden's decline was known among the Democrats, even if the cause (now presumed to be his cancer) wasn't. Even if it was, it's certainly possible his handlers thought he stood a better chance of winning against Trump than Harris; after all, he did it 2020, and Harris wasn't all that popular. So they gambled: run Biden, let him win the election, and position Harris to take over if Biden became unsuitable for office.

But one disastrous debate brought Biden's cognitive state into the open, so they had to move up their game plan and run Harris instead. It didn't work. She lost both the popular vote, albeit by a mere 1.5 of percentage points, and the electoral college, giving the USA Trump instead.

This scenario appears to fit the facts as we currently know them.

 

[Hercules56]

As far as I'm concerned, Biden was in good shape when he won the election in 2020. When he started to go into a noticeable decline is sort of unknown, and I don't have the time to go back over the four years of his presidency to look for signs of it...

Agreed.

The idea that he was in trouble and his staff actively hid this from the American people for years, is a wild baseless paranoid conspiracy theory with NO evidence and is simply now dancing on a dead-man walking.

 

[Ziggurat]

What the ◊◊◊◊ are you talking about? Are you saying a requirement for you to vote for a Presidential candidate is that they be in "top shape"?

Nope, didn't say that either. I said nothing at all about how anyone should vote.

But are you honestly saying that the primaries would have played out the same if his advisors were up front an open about his condition? Of course it wouldn't have. That's just a fact, one which you aren't even contesting. And what are you even upset at me for? I didn't hide Biden's condition. I didn't give him that condition. I didn't even expose his condition. Are you glad his advisors tried to hide it? Are you honestly arguing that it was the right thing to do?

 

[Hercules56]

Nope, didn't say that either. I said nothing at all about how anyone should vote.

But are you honestly saying that the primaries would have played out the same if his advisors were up front an open about his condition? Of course it wouldn't have. That's just a fact, one which you aren't even contesting. And what are you even upset at me for? I didn't hide Biden's condition. I didn't give him that condition. I didn't even expose his condition. Are you glad his advisors tried to hide it? Are you honestly arguing that it was the right thing to do?

What "condition" specifically are you referring to?

Did you personally examine him? Do you have evidence from someone who did?

Or are you just spouting wild paranoid baseless bull ◊◊◊◊, about a dead-man walking?

 

[Ziggurat]

The idea that he was in trouble and his staff actively hid this from the American people for years, is a wild baseless paranoid conspiracy theory with NO evidence and is simply now dancing on a dead-man walking.

1) Biden is in top form.
2) OK, he's not in top form, but he just had a cold and was tired.
3) OK, it was more than just a cold and being tired, he's lost a step, but that's new.
4) OK, he's been losing a step for a while, but nobody hid that.
5) OK, they hid that from the public, but it was the fault of a few insiders, that's it.
6) OK, a lot of people knew he was declining and refused to say anything, but orange man bad.

You're at step 3, maybe 4. Jack Tapper has now moved onto step 5. We'll see if you can make it to step 6.

 

[Hercules56]

1) Biden is in top form.
2) OK, he's not in top form, but he just had a cold and was tired.
3) OK, it was more than just a cold and being tired, he's lost a step, but that's new.
4) OK, he's been losing a step for a while, but nobody hid that.
5) OK, they hid that from the public, but it was the fault of a few insiders, that's it.
6) OK, a lot of people knew he was declining and refused to say anything, but orange man bad.

You're at step 3, maybe 4. Jack Tapper has now moved onto step 5. We'll see if you can make it to step 6.

Having fun dancing on a dead-man walking? I thought you were better than this.

 

[Ziggurat]

What "condition" specifically are you referring to?

No specific condition. Just his general mental decline. Is that not enough? Are you denying that he was suffering from a mental decline?

Did you personally examine him?

Don't need to. I don't need a medical diagnosis to see that his mental faculties are not what they once were. That's obvious to all and sundry.

 

[Ziggurat]

Having fun dancing on a dead-man walking? I thought you were better than this.

First off, no you didn't. You think I'm a terrible person, and there's no chance in hell you thought I'm better than you now think I am. That's a rhetorical ploy to act offended, as if you had the moral high ground.

And it's not dancing on a dead man walking. Suppose for the sake of argument that I'm correct. Who then is to blame? Biden? No. Obviously not. And I never said he was.

 

[Hercules56]

No specific condition. Just his general mental decline. Is that not enough? Are you denying that he was suffering from a mental decline?

Don't need to. I don't need a medical diagnosis to see that his mental faculties are not what they once were. That's obvious to all and sundry.

I'd say after age 75 ALL adults go through some mental decline. No conspiracy there. You're on a wild goose chase over a dead-man walking. Proud of yourself?