The Biden Presidency (continued)

Ziggurat said:
Strange. I don't think I said anything about "his" policies. It was the effort to try to hide his decline that I commented upon. And you aren't trying to defend that, but merely deflect from with more off topic "orange man bad".
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Hey, if I could vote in the US, I would still take wheelchair-bound, senile, stage 9 cancer Biden over Trump, even if he wasn't on the ballot.
 
angrysoba said:
Hey, if I could vote in the US, I would still take wheelchair-bound, senile, stage 9 cancer Biden over Trump, even if he wasn't on the ballot.
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Also an irrelevant response. Had Biden's handlers not lied about his condition and the press not played along, there might have been a different Democrat nominee, one actually capable of doing the job themself. The idea that it was either lie about Biden or back Trump is a false dichotomy.
 
Ziggurat said:
What, announcing his cancer?

First off, he didn't make that move, his handlers did. His brain is now pudding and he was never that smart to begin with, nothing he does himself can be characterized as "brilliant".

Second, the timing probably has little to do with Trump, and more to do with the release of the Hur interview tapes, which make even more pubic his diminished mental capacity while in office. We are still a long ways off from a proper reckoning of that coverup, and what we see now is a mad scramble to avoid accountability. The media is finally ready to blame others for their own participation in that coverup, but they have yet to come to terms with their own culpability, and they are noticeably NOT interested in finding out who actually was making the decisions during Joe's presidency.
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Maybe take a nice walk or play with a puppy or something?
 
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Ziggurat said:
Also an irrelevant response. Had Biden's handlers not lied about his condition and the press not played along, there might have been a different Democrat nominee, one actually capable of doing the job themself. The idea that it was either lie about Biden or back Trump is a false dichotomy.
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Not disagreeing with that.

I said multiple times while Biden was still running for president, that Biden should get out of the way, long before the debate which apparently came as shock to some (although even during the debate some people here insisted that Biden merely made a few slips of the tongue rather than spent the whole time gawping into thin air and rambling incoherently).

I was arguing with a number of posters here saying that whether he actually has cognitive decline or is senile, he is undoubtedly frail and unable to project any charisma which means he would almost certainly lose the election. The argument doesn't even have to be made about what his handlers are covering up because the inability to do more than ten or fifteen minutes of interviews or press conferences was enough for anyone to know he should have passed the baton.
 
angrysoba said:
Not disagreeing with that.

I said multiple times while Biden was still running for president, that Biden should get out of the way, long before the debate which apparently came as shock to some (although even during the debate some people here insisted that Biden merely made a few slips of the tongue rather than spent the whole time gawping into thin air and rambling incoherently).

I was arguing with a number of posters here saying that whether he actually has cognitive decline or is senile, he is undoubtedly frail and unable to project any charisma which means he would almost certainly lose the election. The argument doesn't even have to be made about what his handlers are covering up because the inability to do more than ten or fifteen minutes of interviews or press conferences was enough for anyone to know he should have passed the baton.
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But why? Trump is obviously just as bad, if not worse. Why is there a double standard? I believe the media played the biggest role in this "Biden is old" narrative.
 
Ziggurat said:
Also an irrelevant response. Had Biden's handlers not lied about his condition and the press not played along, there might have been a different Democrat nominee, one actually capable of doing the job themself. The idea that it was either lie about Biden or back Trump is a false dichotomy.
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Definitely a false dichotomy because Harris was the candidate. Biden dropped out. Did you miss that? Nobody here could have voted for Biden in the last election. There was no risk of his winning a second term. You don't need to wring your hands in terror that a senile cancer patient could be president. Instead you have the stable genius who discovered the word "groceries". Twice. Have you heard of it? Not many people have. It means a bag with things in it.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Definitely a false dichotomy because Harris was the candidate. Biden dropped out. Did you miss that? Nobody here could have voted for Biden in the last election. There was no risk of his winning a second term. You don't need to wring your hands in terror that a senile cancer patient could be president. Instead you have the stable genius who discovered the word "groceries". Twice. Have you heard of it? Not many people have. It means a bag with things in it.
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Yes, indeed. That's what the word "Trump" means.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Definitely a false dichotomy because Harris was the candidate. Biden dropped out. Did you miss that? Nobody here could have voted for Biden in the last election. There was no risk of his winning a second term. You don't need to wring your hands in terror that a senile cancer patient could be president. Instead you have the stable genius who discovered the word "groceries". Twice. Have you heard of it? Not many people have. It means a bag with things in it.
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Right. She won the open primary; she beat all of her competitors.
 
thaiboxerken said:
But why? Trump is obviously just as bad, if not worse. Why is there a double standard? I believe the media played the biggest role in this "Biden is old" narrative.
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Not really. There's little point in complaining that Trump is mad as a hatter. That's what his supporters like about him. But also, he doesn't look like he is about to break down at every minute. He does project energy, unlike Biden who truly looks as though he is about to fall asleep or who apparently forgets completely what he is talking about and says things like, "...oh, don't get me started..."

The fact is that there is no "Biden is old" narrative. Biden is old!
 
angrysoba said:
...he doesn't look like he is about to break down at every minute. He does project energy, unlike Biden who truly looks as though he is about to fall asleep or who apparently forgets completely what he is talking about...
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Are you being sarcastic or have you just not seen a video of Dump lately? He looks dazed and confused and barely able to keep his eyes open, and he frequently fails to compose a coherent sentence.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Are you being sarcastic or have you just not seen a video of Dump lately? He looks dazed and confused and barely able to keep his eyes open, and he frequently fails to compose a coherent sentence.
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This is silly. Trump is the same as he's been for the past 40 years.
 
angrysoba said:
Biden has stage 9 cancer? Wow! Trump should respect the fact that most people never get above stage 4.
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Yeah, the Punkin’ President is just confusing you.
9 was the Gleason score, which is a grading specific to prostate cancer.

Of course there is no reason not to think he was just being delightedly malicious and gloating that Biden’s cancer is a 9 instead of a 4(or in this case a 5?). He is a person who revels in others misfortunes.
 
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TragicMonkey said:
Definitely a false dichotomy because Harris was the candidate. Biden dropped out. Did you miss that?
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Not in 2020, and even in 2024, only after he dropped out. For all of 2020 and much of the 2024 race, Biden was very much a candidate. Did you miss that?
TragicMonkey said:
Nobody here could have voted for Biden in the last election.
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That's not quite true, there were actually primaries (even though they were a bit of a farce) and a lot of Democrats did vote for him. But even if he had dropped out before the primaries, it wouldn't change anything I said.
TragicMonkey said:
You don't need to wring your hands in terror that a senile cancer patient could be president.
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Sure, no point in worrying about what already happened.
 
Ziggurat said:
Not in 2020, and even in 2024, only after he dropped out. For all of 2020 and much of the 2024 race, Biden was very much a candidate. Did you miss that?

That's not quite true, there were actually primaries (even though they were a bit of a farce) and a lot of Democrats did vote for him. But even if he had dropped out before the primaries, it wouldn't change anything I said.

Sure, no point in worrying about what already happened.
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Then what are you bugging about now? Biden isn't the president now. Whether he's as healthy or not, whether he's mentally sharp or not, whether he's alive or dead, whether he's a Mexican luchador or a murderous Time Lord doesn't make a difference to anyone except those who know him.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Then what are you bugging about now? Biden isn't the president now.
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Have the people who hid his condition been held to account yet?

No, they have not.

You may be quite happy that they covered up his decline, but if so, that is shortsighted foolishness on your part.
 
dirtywick said:
yeah you guys were right about biden. unfortunately you didn't spend a second warning anyone about the other guy who was even worse. there will always be that caveat to being right about biden.
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Tu quoque is the only defense on offer, and it's really not much of one.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Are you being sarcastic or have you just not seen a video of Dump lately? He looks dazed and confused and barely able to keep his eyes open, and he frequently fails to compose a coherent sentence.
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It doesn't work like that.

I am not saying this is fair.

I am saying that Trump's behaviour is just a version of how his fans like him to be. Nobody likes to see Biden barely able to finish a sentence.
 
Ziggurat said:
Have the people who hid his condition been held to account yet?

No, they have not.

You may be quite happy that they covered up his decline, but if so, that is shortsighted foolishness on your part.
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You have no evidence they lied about his health.

You have no evidence he was given a PSA exam recently and it came clean.
 
Hercules56 said:
You have no evidence they lied about his health.

You have no evidence he was given a PSA exam recently and it came clean.
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I said condition, not health. Whether or not they lied about his cancer, we know they lied about his mental state. But honestly, given what we already know they lied about, would you actually be surprised if they lied about the cancer too?
 
Ziggurat said:
I said condition, not health. Whether or not they lied about his cancer, we know they lied about his mental state. But honestly, given what we already know they lied about, would you actually be surprised if they lied about the cancer too?
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What official mental diagnosis did they lie about?

All you have is baseless speculation.
 
And again, I've said this kind of thing before, but people don't seem to understand that Trump's fans are not put off by raging measles epidemics, incompetent use of chatrooms, surrendering to Putin, toying with the idea of ethnically cleansing Gaza, selling freakin' memecoins, being given jumbo jets by Qatar, appointing criminals and lunatics to his cabinet, selling access to himself with gold cards, locking people up for writing op-eds, crashing the stock exchange, ramping up prices on imported consumer goods with ludicrous and arbitrary tariffs, bringing in weirdo conspiracy theorists to the White House press room to ask flattering questions, refusing entry to legitimate news organizations for not saying "Gulf of America", and this is long down the road of "grab 'em by the pussy", mocking the disabled and a thousand other outrages. We also have had threads on Trump having debilitating mental illnesses and predictions of imminent collapse on this very forum. Remember when we were talking about the Goldwater Rules? Weren't those quaint days?

And yet, for all this talk of "double standards" by the voters (How dare they!!) and the media (I always knew that the media was on Trump's side!!), there manifestly is a problem with Biden, and it is one that on every occasion only seems to confirm every claim that Biden is doddering and old. Whether it was him not appearing for interviews or press conferences, skipping traditionally scheduled interviews (before the superb owl thing, right?), not doing any hostile interviews and only turning up for conversations with extremely friendly media such as Colbert or the View. Even on those occasions it is really hard to understand what Biden is saying, he clearly loses his thread, he seems to always need someone there to help him around (usually Jill), and sometimes people feeding him laugh lines.

Like I said, it is not fair, but there is no point yelling at the universe at this, because it doesn't care. Biden and the Democrats should have known this was coming and should have taken action to find a candidate who would have a better chance of winning against Trump. After all, given how manifestly terrible Trump is, it made things even more imperative that they didn't put up someone who was barely compos mentis.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Then what are you bugging about now? Biden isn't the president now. Whether he's as healthy or not, whether he's mentally sharp or not, whether he's alive or dead, whether he's a Mexican luchador or a murderous Time Lord doesn't make a difference to anyone except those who know him.
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Biden and Obama live in their heads rent-free. I guess they never got over someone they portrayed as just a frail demented old man beating their Messiah. With Obama it probably comes down to his sheer gall of being president while black.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Maybe he isn't, but yes they do. They identify with that.
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Given how, like, I see people who, like, can't form, you know, coherent sentences in, like, normal, you know, conversation, it doesn't, you know, surprise me that, like, people would, like, identify with that.

(A personal pet peeve)
 
Regnad Kcin said:
Such concern! A concerning level of concern! Shall I top off that glass of concern for you?
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Your candidate could not do his job. His staff knew he could not do his job. They tried to keep this information from you.

Why exactly are you satisfied with that? Forget my concern, where is yours? Given what ended up happening, do you even think that helped the Democrats?
 
Ziggurat said:
Even now, you cling to the idea that he was just fine? Keep rearranging those deck chairs, Herc.
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Again all you have is baseless speculation. Due to your hatred of Biden and the Democrats.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Your candidate could not do his job. His staff knew he could not do his job. They tried to keep this information from you.

Why exactly are you satisfied with that?
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And yet the job got done. Fairly well, too. Can't really say the same about the current guy, can we? For those of us who value results clearly Biden was the better president.

I think it's pretty well understood now that Reagan wasn't entirely running things his second term, that it was mostly Bush and the cabinet. Does that mean all the things that current conservatives heap praise on Reagan for during that term didn't happen at all? Or that they did but they don't count because it wasn't Reagan himself behind them?

At some point in the machinery of history what matters is results. It's not ideal but there you go, such is life.
 
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