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The behaviour of UK police officers.

The police are dealing with a new statutory law regarding conspiracy to join an illegal protest. Typical for the police, some officers are better at understanding the law than others. There was an arrest of a car load of people where the evidence was climbing gear. This is in Kent, so not much call for rock climbing and they were planning scaling more motorway stanchions. But journalists with camera equipment and ID have the opposite of climbing gear, they have evidence to prove they are not there to commit crime.
 
In other news, this is shocking. A family, whose police officer father committed suicide, have come forward with his mobile phone. It has numerous exchanges between him and other cops in Gwent Police, which are riddled with misogynist hate.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ism-rife-at-force-snx6qhrzm?utm_medium=Social

Registration can be done for free to get the whole article. The messages are dreadful and the number of cops involved. It further blows out the water the claims by some cops that this a problem with just a few bad apples.
 
My brother was a police custody officer in Scotland. We had a negative view of cops as kids as my dad was a cop in Ayrshire in the 60s and boasted about getting confessions from guys they "knew" had done whatever. He was persuaded to join by another cop who talked about how they needed guys like my brother, fair minded, well liked in the town, known to be a big tough guy but never aggressive*. Nice guy, said my brother, who then found it hard to watch said nice cop join a group of cops harrassing a young guy who was obviously autistic. Pack mentality maybe? It can be a strong force.

*At his funeral I actually had a guy from what he called his "frequent flyer club" come and tell me they were always happy to see my brother on duty as they knew there'd be no "slipping on the stairs" style events.
 
In other news, this is shocking. A family, whose police officer father committed suicide, have come forward with his mobile phone. It has numerous exchanges between him and other cops in Gwent Police, which are riddled with misogynist hate.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ism-rife-at-force-snx6qhrzm?utm_medium=Social

Registration can be done for free to get the whole article. The messages are dreadful and the number of cops involved. It further blows out the water the claims by some cops that this a problem with just a few bad apples.

Registration is a commitment to pay £180.00 per annum. Care to share the details?
 
For those stopped by a paywall, here's a brief digest of what the article says:

WhatsApp and Facebook messages show Gwent police officers openly discussing the sexual harassment of junior female colleagues; racist, homophobic and misogynistic abuse; the leaking of sensitive police material; and corruption.

<snip>

In 2018 and 2019 Officer A sent a number of racist images to Jones, mostly about Muslim women. A picture of Grenfell Tower on fire is titled “The Great Muslim Bakeoff”. In May 2019 Officer A sent Jones a racist image about the new royal baby.

In another exchange, on Facebook Messenger, Jones is discussing a possible divorce. Officer A offered him help in carrying out a possible fraud, saying he had done the same in the past for a Gwent police chief.

<snip>

In November 2018 at a misconduct hearing female officers gave evidence of domineering, controlling and physically abusive behaviour by Joslyn, then aged 46.

He resigned from the police before the hearing was completed, but the panel determined that he would have been dismissed.

Six months before the hearing, Joslyn had messaged Jones saying he was aware of an internal report that said as many as ten women had made complaints about his behaviour towards them.

<snip>

A former partner reported Joslyn to Gwent police in 2012, and he was issued with a harassment warning — but he was allowed to remain a serving officer, even after breaching the order.

Former police officer Sarah was 20 when she got involved in a relationship with Joslyn. The Sunday Times made contact with her via the Centre for Women’s Justice (CWJ), who had represented her when she successfully sued Gwent police.

In one of the most serious domestic incidents, Sarah was having a bath while he cooked dinner. But he became angry saying she allowed the food to go cold. “He was shouting at me,” she said. “He’d been cutting potatoes for dinner and he was still holding the knife. He held me up against the wall and he had the knife at my shoulder.”

<snip>

In another case, ex-Gwent officer Rachel, who The Sunday Times contacted with the help of another officer, said that women who spoke out against senior officers were “dismissed to keep them quiet”.

“It left me suicidal,” she said. “I was pretty much bankrupt, I was left homeless and sofa-surfing with my child. I lost my car, I lost everything. It’s like an old school boys’ club. They keep everything in-house. It’s just quite toxic, and it’s a small force, so they manage to hide things really well.”

<snip> [follows reams of domestic abuse behaviour by Jones. Jones committed suicide]

Jones’s family have made arrangements to hand over his phone to Wiltshire Police and have asked them to investigate the messages found between Jones and the serving and retired officers, as well as how the family were treated by Gwent following his death.

<snip> For Sharon and her three daughters, their view of the police has changed for ever. They say the contents of Jones’s phone have made them afraid of the police. Sharon is concerned about the many more women around the UK being abused in a relationship by a police officer. “Where do these women go to be heard?” she asked.

Follows usual disclaimers from police saying they treat such incidents seriously.

NB you can get a 12-month subscription for £1 pcm.
 
Not paywalled article on the BBC about the subject:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63616908
Gwent Police is being investigated after "abhorrent" messages between serving and retired officers emerged, Chief Constable Pam Kelly confirmed.

It comes after the Sunday Times reported on a culture of misogyny, corruption and racism in the force.

Ms Kelly said the content "paints a picture of a toxic culture" but did not "represent the majority of our force".

All MPs within the the force area will meet with Ms Kelly and the Police and Crime Commissioner on Monday.

At this point they should probably launch probes into all the UK police forces, because I'm pretty sure if nothing has come out about them its only because they've been better at hiding it.
 
From Private Eye, 1585.

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Not paywalled article on the BBC about the subject:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63616908


At this point they should probably launch probes into all the UK police forces, because I'm pretty sure if nothing has come out about them its only because they've been better at hiding it.

The thing is we have known about this "officially" since the Macpherson report (albeit that "only" dealt with the racism and incompetent leadership aspects). We have had a generation worth of new officers since then and it is very apparent that nothing changed at the core of the police force, the bad apples have been spoiling any good apples added into the barrel.

We need a radical approach to the inherent issues in our police forces, we need the disciplinary processes to be drastically overhauled, we need recruitment overhauled. To put it simply we need new police forces that start with no bad apples and when the "one bad apple" does pop up it is dealt with immediately so it can't spoil the good apples.
 
A cop who worked with the police officer who murdered Sarah Everard has now been charged with

27 counts of rape
9 sexual assaults
5 assaults by penetration
3 counts of coercive behaviour
3 counts of false imprisonment
2 counts of attempt rape
1 attempt assault by penetration
1 count of sexual activity without consent
1 indecent assault
1 firearms possession with intent to cause fear

https://twitter.com/Fhamiltontimes/status/1595830806895026176
 
Just one more bad apple….

I am sure there are once again “lessons to be learned”, sadly I suspect that lesson will be that they should always delete their WhatsApp messages after a shift.
 
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The Sunday Times has followed up the Ricky Jones case (the South Wales cop who domestically abused his wife and kids, and was found to have shared horrendous amounts of WhatsApp messages that breached decency). Now his former firearms trainer, Alyson Cox has added her 2p worth:

She applied for a permanent role as a civilian instructor in August 2020, but was turned down for one of four posts. She was told the four men who applied were better candidates, despite her 30 years of experience as a firearms officer and instructor.

“I believe I was passed-over for a position because I was a woman and not part of the club — this was despite being extremely well-qualified for the role,” Cox said.

“Looking at the content on Jones’s phone, I think it has got worse since I joined,” she said. “I think it has gone backwards. When I was a police officer, [with] some of the things you deal with there is a dark sense of humour because you have to process what you have seen.

“But I don’t ever recall using anything offensive or racist. I used to travel around in a van — the one woman firearms officer with six or seven big blokes, all with guns, going out to jobs. I happened to be a very good shot, so nobody could say anything about my ability with a firearm.”

<snip>

Jones’s mobile phone shows serving and retired officers swapping WhatsApp messages calling Asian people “slopes”, homophobic language such as “PC closet” and “poofs”, and discussing “sex pest” male police officers who target junior female colleagues.

<snip>

Josie (not her real name) was assaulted during a team social event by her sergeant, whom we are calling Officer H.

She had previously been propositioned by another senior officer during her training, who asked her to perform oral sex on a mattress in the back of a police van. She reported this incident to Officer H but it was taken no further. He subsequently assaulted her.

After reporting Officer H’s alleged assault, Josie found herself under investigation for 19 allegations relating to her conduct, three of which were found to be proved against her at a disciplinary hearing. Last week she described those allegations as “spurious”.

As part of its inquiry into Josie, Gwent police sent a questionnaire to her colleagues asking for their views on her capability. Questions included: “Have you had any concerns about [Josie’s] professional integrity?,” “Are you aware of other members of your team having any issues with [Josie]?”, and “Has [Josie] ever told you anything that you know not to be true?”

Gwent police said the questionnaire was standard practice for such an inquiry. But Josie described it as a “fishing exercise”. Officer H’s conduct hearing never took place.

<snip>

Gwent police told her the allegation was passed to Scotland Yard because the alleged incident took place in London. She was told by Gwent police that no further action would be taken. She has since discovered that the Metropolitan Police have no record of the allegation.
SUNDAY TIMES

Follows usual disclaimers from police saying they take all of this stuff very seriously.
 
There is also an exposé about institutionalised racism and sexism in the London Fire Brigade (no point in starting a separate thread as it is closely linked to the above as a one off) and now senior staff in the NHS are also demanding investigations.

From Monday, scores of “stomach-turning” allegations will be handed over to an independent body, and historical cases going back five years combed over again.

After we revealed the contents of the 88-page report, the lawyer who conducted the investigation of the brigade was contacted by staff from across the public sector sharing their experiences and asking for help. Stories shared as part of the review included a black firefighter discovering a noose left above his locker and women finding urine in their helmets and semen on tunics.

Nazir Afzal, a former chief prosecutor in the Rochdale grooming case, said he had received messages from women and ethnic-minority staff at the BBC, the NHS and many police forces.
SUNDAY TIMES
 
Here we go again - https://www.theguardian.com/law/202...brothers-searched-and-handcuffed-outside-home

Note that one of the officers involved was also involved in a racist on-line chat group and was dismissed by the Met, but the Met still claims that stopping 2 black lads outside their own home, one in a car presumably registered to that address, had nothing to do with skin colour and racist officers.

These unfortunate coincidences are just everywhere...
 
And this is where politicians do need to get involved. We should not let a senior police officer get away with this type of mealy mouth lie and we should not let the police get away with being able to make deals without accepting liability.

The Met deputy assistant commissioner, Bas Javid, said: “One of the three officers involved was dismissed over an unrelated matter in June 2022. His statement could no longer be relied upon. Following this, we took the decision to settle the claim without admission of liability. Based on the accounts of the two other officers, we did not accept the men were stopped and searched because of the colour of their skin.”

"was dismissed over an unrelated matter" This complaint was about treatment due to race, that one of the police officers was so racist that he was sacked is of course not "unrelated" to the complaint.

"Based on the accounts of the two other officers", we did not accept the men were stopped and searched because of the colour of their skin"

Yet the police have given no reason why they were treated as they were. We know the police lied about the initial reasons - seeing drug paraphernalia - since there was no such items. We know that at least one of the officers involved was a rabid racist, how they get away with accepting no liability is wrong. And now if they tried to discipline the other two officers the officers will be able to point out that the Met said there was no liability i.e. the officers did nothing wrong. This is one of the reasons why bad apples aren't removed, because the police force itself is not held accountable.
 

The head of the IOPC Michael Lockwood, whose past is a career in local government, not the police, states that he is resigning due to personal reasons. The next day the Home Secretary reveals that is a lie and that he is resigning as alternative to suspension due to a misconduct allegation.

Now we know that those at the top of the IOPC are corrupt as they will try to hide misconduct.
 
The head of the IOPC Michael Lockwood, whose past is a career in local government, not the police, states that he is resigning due to personal reasons. The next day the Home Secretary reveals that is a lie and that he is resigning as alternative to suspension due to a misconduct allegation.

Now we know that those at the top of the IOPC are corrupt as they will try to hide misconduct.

Seems this 63-year-old man, Lockwood, is suspected of having an inappropriate relationship with a child aged 14 or 15.


The head of the police watchdog who resigned after a historical allegation is accused of having an inappropriate relationship with a child aged 14 or 15.

The claim against Michael Lockwood, 63, director-general of the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), is understood to be sexual in nature, regarding alleged behaviour when he was in his 20s and living in Humberside.

A police source said that he had been under investigation for months but the IOPC, whose job it is to examine police misconduct, was informed only last week. It is understood a file has been sent to the Crown Prosecution Service, which will now make a decision on whether to charge him.
Sunday Times

The head of the I.O.P.C.

There is something darkly ironic about this.
 
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The Met Police have finally accepted that they cannot dismiss Supt Robyn Williams, the cop whose sister sent her indecent images of child abuse and did nothing about it & who was subsequently convicted of possession of indecent images and put on the sex offenders register.

https://twitter.com/DannyShawNews/status/1602005128256552962

The possession of the images was a technicality, as the police are sent and possess many such images, when evidence gathering. So many people object to conviction on that part, as she is not a sex offender like someone who is out for sexual gratification.

The real issue is her failure to act, which was likely to protect family who had been sharing the image, though for reasons I cannot establish, it appears they have not been convicted.

There is a parallel story in Scotland, where it has been revealled that a senior cop investigating the Bible John murders in the 1960s, ignored a suspect because that suspect was related to a friend and fellow cop.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bible-john-cover-up-claims-28648377

Both example senior cops covering up for those they like, a culture that has likely existed for a long time and is one reason why Williams probably felt safe in doing what she did. But, she is a black woman, so when her cover up was found out, instead of others covering up for her, she was exposed.

Now the Met has a convicted sex offender, who has to be monitored by the offender management team, as a senior cop, at a time that the Met has acknowledged they need to reform and be better at rooting out cops who should not be in the job.
 
There is a parallel story in Scotland, where it has been revealled that a senior cop investigating the Bible John murders in the 1960s, ignored a suspect because that suspect was related to a friend and fellow cop.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bible-john-cover-up-claims-28648377

A new report about the three women murdered by Bible John. Includes some comments about the police mishandling of the case.

Bible John: The forgotten women at the heart of a serial killer mystery

Patricia Docker, Jemima MacDonald and Helen Puttock were murdered in Glasgow in the late 1960s. Their names became synonymous with Bible John - the man believed to have been responsible for all three killings. Journalist Audrey Gillan reassesses the case to find out who these women were and to tell their forgotten stories.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-toxic-officers-who-broke-the-law-mark-rowley

...snip...
The head of the UK’s biggest police force has said it is “crazy” that he cannot sack “toxic” officers who have broken the law.

Responding to a disclosure in the Guardian that 150 officers are under investigation over allegations of sexual misconduct or racism, the Metropolitan police commissioner, Sir Mark Rowley, admitted that the force’s vetting procedures were inadequate.

Challenged about the figures, Rowley said: “We have some very worrying cases with officers who’ve committed criminality whilst police officers and yet I’m not allowed to sack them. It’s sort of, it’s crazy.”

..snip...

Pretty much says it all.
 

The power to sack cops was taken away from senior police management, because they were protecting cops who should be sacked and sacking cops who did not deserve to be sacked. Police misconduct investigations were driven by the opinion of the investigating officer on the cop they were investigating and it was well known, Superintendent or above and they could do anything and not be sacked.

The Angiolini Report in Scotland on complaints handling was full of examples of investigators putting pressure on complainers because the cop was a "good guy" and "really upset" and the evidence is pushed aside. The Chief Constable of Police Scotland was the subject of sexual assault complaints, but mysteriously, they were investigated as misconduct, not as a crime. An Assistant Chief Constable was investigated for letting people he knew shoot at the firearms training range, when they did not have authorisation, and he was let off. That same ACC announced to a room of probationers at the Jackton police college that a cop was going to be sacked, before his misconduct hearing had been held. His supposed crime was refusing to attend a call about a robbery, but he had just handed over the police vehicle keys to the next shift, who attended and it would take him 40 minutes to walk there. But, he was not very popular, so management ganged up in him and he was sacked.

The Casey Report on the Met raised similar issues, whereby reports of misconduct were investigated more in mind of the image of the police, than evidence.

The police cannot be trusted to investigate themselves, so it has to have robust independent oversight. The problem is, in E&W anyway, is that oversight has made some very odd decisions, such as the decision to allow Robyn Williams to keep her job, despite her attempts to cover up her family sharing indecent images of children.

We are now in the dreadful situation that both the police and the independent body are incompetent.
 
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"The Met said Carrick should never have been allowed to join the force and that his offending was “unprecedented” in its duration and nature, and follows a string of other scandals."

Seems to have been anything but unprecedented.

So unprecedented (just heard someone from the Met using that word on WatO) that Carrick was even in the same unit as Wayne Couzens...

I mean, what are the chances of that?
 
There has been a whole load more revealed about the full extent of Carrick's offending history, which had been held back during the current bit of legal action...

FFS! Several police forces have been bending over backwards not to see what was going on and, essentially, condone his long-term actions.

What happened to the post-Soham amping up of checks on folk (y'know the sort of stuff I had to go through repeatedly)? Or was there some getout clause which excluded the dibble but still meant that us mere nurses had to jump through hoops for semi-literate police officers (I refer specifically to those involved in my last set of checks, who couldn't work out what one post code was, where the town of registration of my birth is, nor what an address in Darlington was)?
 
There has been a whole load more revealed about the full extent of Carrick's offending history, which had been held back during the current bit of legal action...

FFS! Several police forces have been bending over backwards not to see what was going on and, essentially, condone his long-term actions.

...snip...

It's a stressful job he needs to let off steam, he's a ladies man - loves them and leaves them, he's one of the boys, they were tarts anyway.
 
I see that the consistent message today is that victims should always report attacks.

Because we all know how seriously reports are always taken.
 
I see that the consistent message today is that victims should always report attacks.

Because we all know how seriously reports are always taken.

During the period that Carrick was committing his offences I knew a family in north Northumberland (professionally), in which the 2 bairns had been referred to us for severe anxiety issues. Transpired that the mother had been subject to significant, controlling domestic abuse and violence by her then husband, which had spun off on to the bairns too.

This abuse and violence was reported to the local police, but it was never even investigated and she was, in effect, told to shut up and go away.

She left him eventually (turns out he was also having an affair with a colleague) and after that police cars would start parking outside the house late at night, there would be mysterious phone calls, police officers would arrive saying there was a report of disturbance...

Oh, did I mention what the abusive husband did for a living? Sergeant in the local police...

Not the only story of this sort I heard in Northumberland.
 
You'd laugh, if it wasn't so serious. I've seen the tweets. Now, girls, remember always to report the incident to the police every time a policeman sexually assaults or rapes you.
 
Reports can be made to Crime stoppers, an independent charity.

They do a really good job and I know offer support to many but they can't intervene with the police etc. If a crime is committed against you it still needs to be reported to the police. And as we can see in many cases almost the worse thing that someone can do.
 
During the period that Carrick was committing his offences I knew a family in north Northumberland (professionally), in which the 2 bairns had been referred to us for severe anxiety issues. Transpired that the mother had been subject to significant, controlling domestic abuse and violence by her then husband, which had spun off on to the bairns too.

This abuse and violence was reported to the local police, but it was never even investigated and she was, in effect, told to shut up and go away.

She left him eventually (turns out he was also having an affair with a colleague) and after that police cars would start parking outside the house late at night, there would be mysterious phone calls, police officers would arrive saying there was a report of disturbance...

Oh, did I mention what the abusive husband did for a living? Sergeant in the local police...

Not the only story of this sort I heard in Northumberland.

From fishnut on scrutable* - part of a longer and detailed post.

https://scrutable.science/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2864&p=141990#p141984

The victim who went to the police in October, despite everything else, was somehow still deemed not believable. Or, at least, not believable enough to go to trial. It's telling that it's the only case that Carrick didn't plead guilty to, and feels like a last '**** you' to the victim who caused his world to end. 'You may have got me put in prison, but at least I'm not going to prison for your rape.' And it honestly makes me cynically suspect that for all their claims of being appalled and pledging to doing better, nothing's actually changing. If they can't be bothered to go to trial for the only not guilty plea by a prolific rapist, what chance of justice does any rape victim have? Where would we be if he'd decided to plead not guilty to the other charges? Would the CPS have pushed for trial or gone down the 'insufficient evidence, not in the public interest' route for them as well and let him go free to continue harming women?



*I had earlier quoted this post of yours in that thread
 
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