Ed Solving Missing-Person Cases / Anti-Abduction Tips

[catsmate]

Thanks, catsmate. It might take more than a couple days to get a real roundabout number. Some folks might be missed immediately, but others might take a few days, and others might never be missed---hopefully not many of those or none at all.


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I would be surprised if bodies aren't being found next year.

 

[AmyStrange]

I would be surprised if bodies aren't being found next year.

Sadly, you're probably right.


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[pgwenthold]

I agree, but the problem is three-fold. One, there are 40,000 plus unidentified bodies in the US that still haven't been identified with an average of a thousand more being added every year, two, the family itself has to be in a database somewhere, and three, it's expensive as hell to do.

It's why volunteer organizations like the Doe Network are so important.


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Note that Ashley Flowers (Crime Junkie podcaster) created a non-profit organization Seasons of Justice that provides grants for DNA testing in cold cases. They don't look to be huge amount of funding, probably on the order of $1500 each, according to the reports.

 

[AmyStrange]

Note that Ashley Flowers (Crime Junkie podcaster) created a non-profit organization Seasons of Justice that provides grants for DNA testing in cold cases. They don't look to be huge amount of funding, probably on the order of $1500 each, according to the reports.

Thanks for the info. pgwenthold.

Here's her website. I can't find where she has more info about her non-profit, and she does have a little bit of controversy surrounding her, but the grant you mentioned sounds legit:

(The following article seems to be paywalled, but here are four paragraphs from the article itself, under the Fair-Use Doctrine)

Podcaster Ashley Flowers Launches Nonprofit to Fund DNA Testing in Cold Cases
By Andrea Marks (July 15, 2021)

Season of Justice will pay for law enforcement agencies' lab tests as well as awareness campaigns for crime victims and their families

"'What I was seeing over and over is, ‘We’ve got these amazing new ways of bringing resolution to cold cases,’ but the funds weren’t there to do it,' Flowers says. 'It was just this gap that [made me think], we can come up with the funding, but we need a way to get it to them, through the proper channels.''

"Flowers has a background interacting with law enforcement, first as a volunteer and then as a board member of Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana. 'I always wanted to be a cold case detective, but I would make a terrible police officer and it just wasn’t going to happen for me,' she says. In 2016, During her time there, she originated a version of her now famous podcast Crime Junkie as a way to draw attention to unsolved cases. Her interest in true crime stems from the same desire to find answers for victims’ families, she explains, something she believes Season of Justice will contribute to. 'I think there is a responsible way to engage with these stories,' she says. 'That’s what we set out to do when I started Audiochuck — if we’re going to be talking about the worst times in families’ lives every single week, what can we do to be responsible with that? How can we… use our voice for education, for advocacy, use the money that we’re bringing in to actually fund non-profits, and make real change in true crime?'

"Flowers quietly founded Season of Justice in June of 2020 with funds from Audiochuck, including from podcast fans who have donated through Patreon or bought merchandise. ''We put on our website ‘A portion of your money is going to go to a nonprofit;’ they just didn’t know which one yet because we hadn’t announced,' Flowers says. Since then private donors have begun contributing, too. After delays due to the Covid-19 pandemic, the organization got its tax-exempt 501(c)(3) status in early 2021, and today Flowers is announcing the launch.

"Law enforcement agencies in the U.S., Canada, the U.K., or Australia can apply for a grant from Season of Justice by filling out an application on their website indicating what type of testing they want to do and which lab they’d like to use. The lab then bills Season of Justice directly for the testing..."


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[pgwenthold]

Thanks for the info. pgwenthold.

Here's her website. I can't find where she has more info about her non-profit, and she does have a little bit of controversy surrounding her, but the grant you mentioned sounds legit:




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The grant program is a licensed charity, so it's going to have to be responsive to regulation.

Given that she is funding it from proceeds from her Audiochuck business, I don't think there's a concerns she's skimming off the top. I legitimately think that she wanted to be able to fund DNA testing for cold cases, and the way to do that from the business is to funnel it through a 501c3. The business gives to the charity and can write it off. If she wanted to use business proceeds to pay for testing directly, it wouldn't be tax deductable.

Of course with the charity she is also able to fundraise publically.

 

[AmyStrange]

The grant program is a licensed charity, so it's going to have to be responsive to regulation.

Given that she is funding it from proceeds from her Audiochuck business, I don't think there's a concerns she's skimming off the top. I legitimately think that she wanted to be able to fund DNA testing for cold cases, and the way to do that from the business is to funnel it through a 501c3. The business gives to the charity and can write it off. If she wanted to use business proceeds to pay for testing directly, it wouldn't be tax deductable.

Of course with the charity she is also able to fundraise publically.

I agree. I wasn't questioning the inability of the charity to be responsive to regulation or her skimming off the top.

I think it's an awesome idea, and I love her for doing it. I also saw on her website that she's actually helped solve some 21 doe cases, and I also found the website for the non-profit she organized: Season of Justice.

I also signed up for the newsletter the organization puts out, and I'll be sure to post here any news relevant to missing person cold cases that I get.

Thank you again, pgwenthold, for the information.


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[pgwenthold]

I agree. I wasn't questioning the inability of the charity to be responsive to regulation or her skimming off the top.

I think it's an awesome idea, and I love her for doing it. I also saw on her website that she's actually helped solve some 21 doe cases, and I also found the website for the non-profit she organized: Season of Justice.

I also signed up for the newsletter the organization puts out, and I'll be sure to post here any news relevant to missing person cold cases that I get.

Thank you again, pgwenthold, for the information.


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And I know that you mentioned that there is some controversy surrounding her, but I think that's mostly questions of how much material in her podcasts is totally original and how much she borrows from others. I think she's pretty clear when she is borrowing a lot, and will state up front that they are using a lot of information from someone's book or even someone else's podcast, but I think her strength is in her storytelling ability and that's why she is popular.

(disclosure, I've had email discussions with Ashley over the years over various topics, and we've exchanged dog pictures)

 

[AmyStrange]

And I know that you mentioned that there is some controversy surrounding her, but I think that's mostly questions of how much material in her podcasts is totally original and how much she borrows from others. I think she's pretty clear when she is borrowing a lot, and will state up front that they are using a lot of information from someone's book or even someone else's podcast, but I think her strength is in her storytelling ability and that's why she is popular.

(disclosure, I've had email discussions with Ashley over the years over various topics, and we've exchanged dog pictures)

Yeah, it's minor crap that you'll hear from anyone who just likes to hate, and being a celebrity, she gets her share. I only mentioned it because it was the first website that came up when I did a google, and I always try to get it all out there rather than try and hide anything. I know if I tried to hide it, some folks in here would give me **** about it. Trust me, it's happened before.

Anyway, the missing and unidentified (and their friends and loved ones, even if it's years later) need all the help they can get. It's one of the major reasons I started this thread, and she is definitely one of the good guys.


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[catsmate]

Sadly, you're probably right.


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There are 89 people known to be missing.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/1106/1479329-spain-floods-missing/

Of course that doesn't include the 'unknown missing'.

 

[AmyStrange]

There are 89 people known to be missing.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/1106/1479329-spain-floods-missing/

Of course that doesn't include the 'unknown missing'.

Thanks for the update catsmate. I'm glad someone's paying attention to the problems that are going on outside of America. We are, after all, a world community and not isolationist, but unfortunately, that may change soon.


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[pgwenthold]

Yeah, it's minor crap that you'll hear from anyone who just likes to hate, and being a celebrity, she gets her share. I only mentioned it because it was the first website that came up when I did a google, and I always try to get it all out there rather than try and hide anything. I know if I tried to hide it, some folks in here would give me **** about it. Trust me, it's happened before.

Anyway, the missing and unidentified (and their friends and loved ones, even if it's years later) need all the help they can get. It's one of the major reasons I started this thread, and she is definitely one of the good guys.


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Looking around at the Seasons of Justice website, it appears the funds can't be used for Doe identification and looks to be only for testing of suspects.

 

[AmyStrange]

Looking around at the Seasons of Justice website, it appears the funds can't be used for Doe identification and looks to be only for testing of suspects.

Yes, it does seem that the funds are only available for limited purposes, but according to the application page (at least the way it's worded anyway), it can be considered in matters of clear homicide or special circumstances:

"Season of Justice does not fund adult Doe or baby Doe cases where the investigative goal is limited to the identification of the victim. Doe cases may be considered in matters of clear homicide or where special circumstances exist. If you need additional guidance, please contact the Season of Justice staff."

Otherwise, it's very difficult (if not impossible) to identify suspects if you can't ID the body first. I explain the reason for this here:

Ed Post in thread 'Solving Missing-Person Cases / Anti-Abduction Tips'

Oct 3, 2023

How Some Unsolved Missing Person Cases Are Solved (Pt. 2)

In Part 1, I quickly skimmed over what we did at the Doe Network, and to correct that, here's a little more information.


Finding a missing person is one thing, and that's hard enough, but trying to match up an unidentified body with a missing person is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

Once a body is found, LE immediately cordons off the area, and then photos and measurements are taken. After that, the forensic team takes over and scours the area for any clues and bags anything that remotely seems relevant.

After the body is...

• AmyStrange

Of course, if foreign DNA is found on or near the body of an unidentified (or identified) victim, that can be used to find suspects, but you would think LE would already be able to do that. There are many examples of this being done today including this one, which is considered one the oldest cold case to have ever been solved using DNA and forensic genealogy.

Although, the forementioned example is not specifically about solving a missing person case (unless you consider a homicide suspect one), forensic genealogy is being used more and more today to not only help solve those type of cases, but also cold case crimes


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[pgwenthold]

Of course, if foreign DNA is found on or near the body of an unidentified (or identified) victim, that can be used to find suspects, but you would think LE would already be able to do that. There are many examples of this being done today including this one, which is considered one the oldest cold case to have ever been solved using DNA and forensic genealogy.

Although, the forementioned example is not specifically about solving a missing person case (unless you consider a homicide suspect one), forensic genealogy is being used more and more today to not only help solve those type of cases, but also cold case crimes

The way I interpret it, I think her goal is to fund the DNA testing on evidence in cold cases. Take the case where the semen sample has been sitting in the evidence box for 30 years and LE wants to test it but can't because they don't have sufficient cold case funding. SoJ will pay for that DNA, assuming all the other conditions are met.

I know they do a lot of work with the Doe network, but I don't think that's with SoJ funding.

I'm not putting a value judgement on it (it is what it is), but I figured since I brought up SoJ in the context of your discussion of solving missing persons cases, I thought I should clarify having read up on it.

 

[AmyStrange]

The way I interpret it, I think her goal is to fund the DNA testing on evidence in cold cases. Take the case where the semen sample has been sitting in the evidence box for 30 years and LE wants to test it but can't because they don't have sufficient cold case funding. SoJ will pay for that DNA, assuming all the other conditions are met.

I know they do a lot of work with the Doe network, but I don't think that's with SoJ funding.

I'm not putting a value judgement on it (it is what it is), but I figured since I brought up SoJ in the context of your discussion of solving missing persons cases, I thought I should clarify having read up on it.

Thank you for the clarification, and the info on SOJ.

Hopefully, no one on this forum ever has to deal with a missing friend or a loved one, but it's good to know that there are people out there who care, and that there are resources available to help them cope or find the missing.

And if you love solving mysteries, the Doe Network is one of the best volunteer organizations around to do just that.


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[AmyStrange]

There are 89 people known to be missing.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/1106/1479329-spain-floods-missing/

Of course that doesn't include the 'unknown missing'.

Since your post yesterday, the "official" number of missing has increased a little:

Spain's catastrophic floods by the numbers: At least 219 dead, 93 missing and billions in damage


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[AmyStrange]

There are 89 people known to be missing.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/1106/1479329-spain-floods-missing/

Of course that doesn't include the 'unknown missing'.

It seems some folks have been conflating the number of missing to in the hundreds in the floods in Spain, but I think we both believe the actual number might actually be more than the current total of 93:

Justice has identified the people missing in the floods


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[AmyStrange]

I found the following video very fascinating because of the many different ways and reasons folks have disappeared and also how they were found.

The reasons ranged from being abducted as a baby to surviving 8 days trapped in a car after an accident to running away from a fellow thief who threatened to kill them if they went to the cops. It also highlights the many ways they were found from the use of cell tower data to being shocked at seeing a missing person webpage about themselves to the tenacity of a cop never wanting to give up on the missing.

In my opinion, it's a must-see educational tool for thinking outside the box when looking for a missing loved one:

Top 30 Missing People Who Were Eventually Found


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[AmyStrange]

Speaking of cell towers, here's an interesting case that did end in some tragedy, but it's important to know about because of the way the couple and their two children were eventually found:

Ten years ago, Kim family endured wilderness tragedy
JEFF DUEWEL Grants Pass Daily Courier Dec 2, 2016

"Trouble was, no one knew they were lost, or even overdue. When word got out three days later, the initial search area was huge — much of southwest Oregon, recalled Phil Turnbull, now chief for Rural/Metro Fire Department.

But it slowly narrowed, as details trickled out, including a cellphone ping discovered by Edge Wireless engineers from a tower near Glendale. They plotted a wedge shape to the west that covered the Bear Camp Road area. But it also covered areas north of the Rogue River, and a week had already passed since the Kims had become stranded."

The cell tower ping was from a cellphone text from James Kim's wife, Kati, and at first it didn't go through, but as atmospheric conditions changed the cell found a tower and went through.

What's important to remember is that if you get lost in a similar situation and can't get service, it doesn't always matter, because if you send a text, your cell (as long as you keep it on and the battery doesn't die) will keep trying and sometimes (like in this case) the text will go through.

Even then, it still took a while to find them (and in the meantime James died from exposure trying to find his way out), but at least it had a partially happy ending, because Kati and their two daughters were eventually found and all because of a cellphone text.


ETA: This all happened so long ago (almost twenty years) that I'm not exactly sure if it was a text message or just because the Kims kept their cellphone on until the battery died, but regardless because the results were the same.


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[catsmate]

Thanks for the update catsmate. I'm glad someone's paying attention to the problems that are going on outside of America. We are, after all, a world community and not isolationist, but unfortunately, that may change soon.


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Well I'm Irish. We're having an election ourselves in a few weeks.

 

[xterra]

Apologies if this has been mentioned. Here is another missing persons website.

The Charley Project

charleyproject.org

 

[AmyStrange]

Well I'm Irish. We're having an election ourselves in a few weeks.

Well, having just gone through our own disaster myself, I hope yours turns out better.


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[AmyStrange]

Apologies if this has been mentioned. Here is another missing persons website.

The Charley Project

charleyproject.org

This is a new one on me, but thank you for the info, and no apologies are necessary. Any mention of any missing person organization is welcome here, even if it's more than once.

From the website itself:

The Charley Project profiles over 16,000 “cold case” missing people mainly from the United States. It does not actively investigate cases; it is merely a publicity vehicle for missing people who are often neglected by the press and forgotten all too soon. A person must have been missing for at least one year to be listed; see the FAQ for additional information on the site, its goals, and its founder/administrator.

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[PitPat]

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO TEACH YOUR CHILDREN TO BE SAFE AND NOT BE A VICTIM OF AN ABDUCTION?


I don't know how true the poster below is, and maybe those in other countries can correct or verify what it says, but the point I'm trying to get across (or ask) is how do you protect your kids (or yourself) from being abducted and eventually becoming a missing person?

Of course (as the poster below infers), one way is to not to talk to strangers, and another way is to always be aware of your surroundings, but I wonder if that's enough.

If an adult comes up to your children and ask them to help them find their dog, of course, some kids will want to help, especially if the adult looks or seems like he's really concerned about their pet, and this might be enough to convince them to go into the woods with them.

It's not just kids either that fall for this. Look at the way Ted Bundy was able to convince women to follow him to a secluded enough spot so that he could knock them out with a tire iron, and then abduct them. He sometimes wore a fake cast and pretended that he needed help to load and unload his boat. It's exactly how he was able to abduct two women from Lake Sammamish State Park in Washington State on July 14, 1974.

As a matter of fact, the main theme in my six novels is about a team of FBI consultants that help to find missing persons, but after two of the main characters (who are married) have a daughter, one of them wonders if maybe scaring the hell out of them is the best way to prevent the above situations from developing into an abduction scenario. He wants to do this by showing her pictures of dead children, or have her watch horror movies based on evil villains that abduct their victims, and then torture them, or show them articles of other children who have disappeared and/or been found dead.

He eventually decides this is not a good idea, but the question still remains. What is the best way to teach your children to be safe and not be a victim of an abduction?

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It's a good question, and kind of a delicate balance. Stranger danger is something to teach, but not to the extent that all adults they don't know are out to get them if they talk to them. A common and chilling technique I've noticed in true crime is hanging around schools and trying to persuade a child that they know you're mom/dad and they asked me to pick you up. Good place to start to tell your kids not to fall for that. Unfortunately sometimes it's successful for the perpetrators. Especially true if they identified the one they want and did their homework.

I don't have kids, so I'm probably coming in at a disadvantage for advice.

 

[AmyStrange]

It's a good question, and kind of a delicate balance. Stranger danger is something to teach, but not to the extent that all adults they don't know are out to get them if they talk to them. A common and chilling technique I've noticed in true crime is hanging around schools and trying to persuade a child that they know you're mom/dad and they asked me to pick you up. Good place to start to tell your kids not to fall for that. Unfortunately sometimes it's successful for the perpetrators. Especially true if they identified the one they want and did their homework.

I don't have kids, so I'm probably coming in at a disadvantage for advice.

All that is definitely worth considering and thank you for your input.


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[catsmate]

Well, having just gone through our own disaster myself, I hope yours turns out better.


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We have our rightist crazies, but the religious element is mostly conservative catholic. Awful time of year for campaigning but the Sinners were having troubles so.....

 

[AmyStrange]

There are a myriad number of ways to locate someone who's missing, but sad to say, there are too many times that they don't work. In my novels, I created a fictional Cat that could find them by sniffing them out, but here's a story about dog who's done it in real life:


Bo the police K-9, who located child taken at knifepoint, wins Hero Dog Awards 2024
Story by Anthony Robledo and Saman Shafiq, USA TODAY 92024-11-08)

Some of America's most heroic dogs have been honored for their extraordinary service to humankind but one has arisen as a winner.

North Carolina police dog Bo of the Gastonia Police Department has won the prestigious American Humane Hero Dog Awards. Alongside his handler Sgt. David Rowland, the 18-month-old very good boy has rescued lives since starting his career in October 2023, including locating both a missing elderly dementia patient and an 11-year-old child with autism...

One Missing Person is One Person Too Many


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[AmyStrange]

Here's an update video on the search for missing persons from the catastrophic floods in Spain (please, pray for them and everyone affected by this horrific disaster):


Spain dreads more flood deaths as search for victims continues

Thousands of rescuers pumped water from submerged buildings, churned through muddy streets and cleared debris on Monday as Spain braced for more deaths from its worst floods in decades. The toll stands at 217 dead and could spike in the coming days as an unknown number of people remain missing. Around 17,000 soldiers, police officers, civil guards and firefighters spent a sixth day distributing aid, repairing infrastructure and searching for bodies using heavy machinery, drones and sniffer dogs

One Missing Person is One Person Too Many


ETA: If anyone has any updates on the missing person searches for Helene and Milton, could you please post them here (or PM them to me) and thank you.


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[AmyStrange]

It's just so sad that this case wasn't solved long before last week, and long before the two suspects had died. They literally got away with murder.

This sometimes happens because of the lack of communication between LE agencies (and probably a lot more times than we'll ever know), especially since this happened back in 1959, but you would still think that someone would've picked up on this right away rather than 65 years later.

Missing child case solved with DNA 65 years later, decades after charges were dropped
Story by Doha Madani

A cold case from 1959 involving a missing 7-year-old came to a conclusion last week through DNA identification, decades after charges were dropped against the boy's adoptive parents for lack of physical evidence.

A human skeleton was discovered on the side of the road in Mequon, Wisconsin, on Oct. 4, 1959, which investigators determined to be the skull of a child between the ages of 6 and 8 years old.

At the same time Mequon police officers were following leads about the skull, deputies in nearby Houghton County, Michigan, were looking into the disappearance of an adopted child, Markku Jutila, whose parents fled to Chicago.

Family members of William and Hilja Jutila became suspicious of the child's whereabouts after the Jutilas relocated from the Michigan area to Chicago. The Houghton County Sheriff's Office began working with the Chicago Police Department on the matter.

One Missing Person is One Person Too Many

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[AmyStrange]

How successful have Amber Alerts been?

We've all heard of Amber Alerts. It stands for America's Missing: Broadcast Emergency Response and is named in honor of nine-year-old Amber Hagerman who was murdered after being abducted while riding her bike in Arlington, Texas on January 13, 1996.

I've always been a big proponent of the alert, and even with the negative spin from a Newsweek article I just finished reading, I still am, but what do you think?

Some folks are skeptical of them because of they're low success rate, but from the same Newsweek article this one comment may change your mind:

The fact that the system involves notifying the public of the missing children has led some researchers to express concern over whether "a perpetrator who sees the Alert could decide to murder the child immediately to avoid capture," as a number of experts wrote for The Social Science Journal.

In the same article, NCMEC was quoted as saying:

The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children responded to Newsweek with the following statement: "At the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC), we know that AMBER Alerts play a vital role in engaging the public when a child goes missing.

"By increasing awareness and generating immediate action, AMBER Alerts have successfully helped to safely recover over 1,200 children as of December 31, 2023," the statement continued. "These alerts mobilize communities, law enforcement, and media in a united effort, significantly boosting the chances of a child's safe recovery."

But how successful are they? Well, here's a chart (from the same article) showing exactly how well they've done since 2006:

SOURCES:
Chart Shows How Successful AMBER Alerts Are Recovering Missing Children
Amber Hagerman
Amber Alert
NCMEC




One Missing Person is One Person Too Many


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[PitPat]

How successful have Amber Alerts been?

We've all heard of Amber Alerts. It stands for America's Missing: Broadcast Emergency Response and is named in honor of nine-year-old Amber Hagerman who was murdered after being abducted while riding her bike in Arlington, Texas on January 13, 1996.

I've always been a big proponent of the alert, and even with the negative spin from a Newsweek article I just finished reading, I still am, but what do you think?

Some folks are skeptical of them because of they're low success rate, but from the same Newsweek article this one comment may change your mind:



In the same article, NCMEC was quoted as saying:




But how successful are they? Well, here's a chart (from the same article) showing exactly how well they've done since 2006:

SOURCES:
Amber Hagerman
Chart Shows How Successful AMBER Alerts Are Recovering Missing Children
Amber Alert
NCMEC




One Missing Person is One Person Too Many


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That is rather a stark contrast. I think it's still worth it, even if you have to see them on your phone and cable when they occur. To my knowledge (and maybe this has changed) they at least need a license plate, car description, and possibly name. They're often outside of my traveling range and can happen hundreds of miles away. And there are now silver alerts, which I like as dementia and Alzheimers is becoming more of a very real thing.

 

[AmyStrange]

That is rather a stark contrast. I think it's still worth it, even if you have to see them on your phone and cable when they occur. To my knowledge (and maybe this has changed) they at least need a license plate, car description, and possibly name. They're often outside of my traveling range and can happen hundreds of miles away. And there are now silver alerts, which I like as dementia and Alzheimers is becoming more of a very real thing.

Thank you PitPat for the added info, because Silver Alerts are just as important, if only for the very reasons you posted.

As a matter of fact (as of this writing), there are a total of six different missing person alerts currently in use, and I've included a link to an article below describing them, but here's a Wikipedia article that's specifically about Silver Alerts:

Silver Alert - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Silver Alert is a public notification system in the United States to broadcast information about missing persons – especially senior citizens with Alzheimer's disease, dementia, or other mental disabilities – in order to aid in locating them.

Silver Alerts use a wide array of media outlets – such as commercial radio stations, television stations, and cable television – to broadcast information about missing persons. In some states (specifically Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, New Jersey, North Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin), Silver Alerts also use variable-message signs on roadways to alert motorists to be on the lookout for missing seniors.

In cases in which a missing person is believed to be missing on foot, Silver Alerts have used Reverse 911 or other emergency notification systems to notify nearby residents of the neighborhood surrounding the missing person's last known location. Silver Alerts can also be used for children who are missing without being in danger or abducted.

SEE ALSO:
Do you know all the missing person alerts? Here is your guide to the six different alerts




One Missing Person is One Person Too Many


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[AmyStrange]

I posted a comment on this very subject a couple of weeks ago, and I haven't gotten any comments, suggestions, or tips on it so far, except for one (Thanks PitPat), but here are a couple articles about it just to juice the subject again.

By the way, I've also included a quote from the first article that explains what this "new phrase" is, and a quote from the second article also. They both make sense to me, and I'm sure some parents on this forum are already familiar with both of them, but what does everyone else think?


Why 'stranger danger' is outdated at best and dangerous at worst (and the new phrase your child needs to understand to stay safe)

Explaining their stance on the issue, child psychologists Tania Johnson and Tammy Schamuhn suggest the phrase parents should use instead of stranger danger. A video posted to Instagram by the pair, was captioned "Teach your child to be aware of 'Tricky People' not just 'Stranger Danger.'" Expanding on this, the post continued "The old-school concept of Stranger Danger is inaccurate and not helpful in protecting your child. A stranger can be a policeman, but they can be helpful. A Tricky Person can be a stranger or more often it is someone known to the child."

This clever hack stopped an 11-year-old being abducted - and it's so simple

Parents are being urged to set up 'code words' with their kids that only they know and use them to verify if people are really who they are claiming to be - often friends of mummy and daddy.

Here's my original post on the subject:

Ed Post in thread 'Solving Missing-Person Cases / Anti-Abduction Tips'

Nov 2, 2024

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO TEACH YOUR CHILDREN TO BE SAFE AND NOT BE A VICTIM OF AN ABDUCTION?


I don't know how true the poster below is, and maybe those in other countries can correct or verify what it says, but the point I'm trying to get across (or ask) is how do you protect your kids (or yourself) from being abducted and eventually becoming a missing person?

Of course (as the poster below infers), one way is to not to talk to strangers, and another way is to always be aware of your surroundings, but I wonder if that's enough.

If an adult comes up to your children and ask them to...

• AmyStrange

• 

One Missing Person is One Person Too Many


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[pgwenthold]

This clever hack stopped an 11-year-old being abducted - and it's so simple

This is one thing we have always done with our kids. We have a code word that the kids know, and if anyone they didn't know were to approach them and tell them that we said something, they would need to know the code word.

We've never needed to use it ourselves because we've always gotten help from people we know, but the kids have always known if it were to be someone else, they would know the code word.

The kids are now old enough where it's not as much an issue, but it was an easy thing to do and it is a safe approach.

 

[catsmate]

It's just so sad that this case wasn't solved long before last week, and long before the two suspects had died. They literally got away with murder.

This sometimes happens because of the lack of communication between LE agencies (and probably a lot more times than we'll ever know), especially since this happened back in 1959, but you would still think that someone would've picked up on this right away rather than 65 years later.

Missing child case solved with DNA 65 years later, decades after charges were dropped
Story by Doha Madani









One Missing Person is One Person Too Many

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Here there is a search ongoing of land near Ballyhook House outside Grangercon on the Kildare/Wicklow border forge body of Josephine 'Jo Jo' Dullard who disappeared almost thirty years ago, 09NOV1999.


Indeed there is a second search ongoing, for two other missing presumed murdered, people.

 

[AmyStrange]

Here there is a search ongoing of land near Ballyhook House outside Grangercon on the Kildare/Wicklow border forge body of Josephine 'Jo Jo' Dullard who disappeared almost thirty years ago, 09NOV1999.


Indeed there is a second search ongoing, for two other missing presumed murdered, people.

I wish them luck. Please keep us informed if you can.


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[AmyStrange]

Here there is a search ongoing of land near Ballyhook House outside Grangercon on the Kildare/Wicklow border forge body of Josephine 'Jo Jo' Dullard who disappeared almost thirty years ago, 09NOV1999.


Indeed there is a second search ongoing, for two other missing presumed murdered, people.

Just so folks know who she is, here's her Wikipedia page:

Disappearance of Jo Jo Dullard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Josephine "Jo Jo" Dullard is an Irish woman who disappeared at the age of 21 (born 25 January 1974) on 9 November 1995. The last confirmed sighting of her was at a public phone box in Moone, County Kildare. In 2020, gardaí upgraded her disappearance to a murder investigation after cold case detectives concluded that she "met her death through violent means". Although a person of interest was arrested and questioned in November 2024, no one has ever been charged or convicted in relation to Jo Jo's disappearance.

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[catsmate]

I wish them luck. Please keep us informed if you can.


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I have a college friend involved but the search is continuing, hampered by the rain.

 

[catsmate]

Just so folks know who she is, here's her Wikipedia page:

Disappearance of Jo Jo Dullard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's a reasonable, if perhaps overly restrained, summary of the case.

On the morning of 11 November 2024, a 55-year-old man was arrested in Co Kildare on suspicion of the murder of Jo Jo Dullard. The suspect, who was described as coming from a "well-known family", had been a longstanding person of interest in the investigation, according to media reports.

The "55-year-old man" is the person who gave her the lift in 1999.

 

[AmyStrange]

That's a reasonable, if perhaps overly restrained, summary of the case.

The "55-year-old man" is the person who gave her the lift in 1999.

Here's one more link:

The three-decade search to find missing 'Jo Jo'
Hayley Halpin BBC News NI -- 2024-11-13


And a link to the most recent news:

Three decades after Jo Jo Dullard vanished, an arrest returns case to headlines
Kilkenny woman (21) was hitching from Dublin to Callan in November 1995 when she vanished, with no trace of her found since
Conor Lally - Mon Nov 11 2024 - 17:16

--Three decades after the disappearance and murder of Josephine “Jo Jo” Dullard, the Garda investigation into who took her life remains rooted in the community where she was last seen alive.

--The man arrested early on Monday morning and being questioned by detectives about the murder of the 21-year-old Co Kilkenny woman in November 1995 is from a well-known family in the Kildare-Wicklow area where the arrest and searches took place.
-- Ms Dullard had made it that far – to the village of Moone in south Kildare – before vanishing without trace on the night of November 9th that year.

Jo Jo Dullard murder: What next after release of suspect without charge?
Former detective says although Dullard murder can still be solved 29 years on, release suggests shortfalls in evidence
Conor Lally - Wed Nov 13 2024 - 12:09

--The fact a man being questioned about the murder of Josephine “Jo Jo” Dullard was released without charge on Tuesday was anticipated. His arrest was mainly designed to test him under pressure, with limited expectation of a charge, but his release still comes as a big blow to the detectives working on the case.

Search and excavation continuing as part of Jo Jo Dullard 1995 murder investigation
Gardaí searching site at Grangecon, Co Wicklow, for human remains or any personal items owned by 21-year-old Kilkenny woman who vanished in 1995
Conor Lally - Wed Nov 13 2024 - 18:20

--Gardaí investigating the disappearance and murder of Josephine ‘Jo Jo’ Dullard in 1995 are on Thursday expected to resume searching as the operation enters its fourth day. Teams of gardaí, operating excavators and other heavy plant machinery, have been searching and digging at a remote area near Grangecon, Co Wicklow, since Monday.

Is this the couple you were talking about in your earlier post?

Search for missing couple William Maughan and Anastasija Varslavane resumes in north Co Dublin
Pair, last seen in April 2015, believed to have been abducted, shot dead and their bodies concealed by a Co Louth-based gang
Sat Nov 16 2024 - 09:52

--Gardaí investigating the disappearance and presumed murder of a couple last seen almost a decade ago have resumed a search of open lands in north Co Dublin.
--William Maughan and Anastasija Varslavane were last seen in April 2015 and their case was upgraded to a murder investigation the following year. Seven people have previously been arrested by gardaí investigating the matter.
--The search operation began on Friday and is set to continue over the coming days.

One Missing Person is One Person Too Many


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[AmyStrange]

That's a reasonable, if perhaps overly restrained, summary of the case.

The "55-year-old man" is the person who gave her the lift in 1999.

I added a couple more links to the Josephine "Jo Jo" Dullard post above.

Thanx for keeping me informed, and also getting me to look for more info. Sometimes things get crazy here, and I forget about the thread here on ISF.


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