theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
The States are not Europe. That's kind of the whole point. Europe is a miserable pile of racist factions and centuries of unresolved grudges. Don't buy into that vision of the new world.
So what form does the resistance take?
- Thread starter stanfr
- Start date
The states didn't suffer nearly as much as Europe in WW2, so if we wanted to prevent that sort of thing we should have paid attention. We did not, here we are. That's all I'm saying. We've got plenty of racist factions here to do the work.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
The States are not Europe. The States are certainly not Europe circa 1939-1945.
Most of the troubles Europe has suffered have already been avoided in the new world. Significantly, by establishing union over conflict early on.
More like 1932-1938.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
More like clown world. Try again.
I mean honestly. If you can't see the many, many similarities I would suggest maybe getting off of a message board and actually pay attention. Quoting Hitler, ignoring the rule of law, extreme narcissism, identifying and attacking marginalized communities, attacking the press, promises of bloody mass deportations? I get it's fun to be a contrarian on the internet but this is kind of serious.
I'm not so sure. The MAGA crowd seem to be getting a hard on about it.
The GOP in Congress are positively reveling in it.
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 26,060
Well, I suppose you could ignore the War Between the States.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War)
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
SO
SO a left wing regime that suppresees free speech and opposition is OK with you.
Not with me. Stalin is as bad as Hitler.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Messages
- 28,185
Would be better than the right wing regime that suppresees free speech and opposition that we currently have and that is OK with you.
European states have a better democracy, better freedom of speech protection and are more left-wing.
It's not a choice between Trump and Stalin.
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Gulliver Foyle
Philosopher
The more pertinent question is, how did it take so long? If you were looking to set up a country to fail, you could barely do better than follow the US's founding fathers.
Gulliver Foyle
Philosopher
What do you mean "get as bad as it did", vis avis Europe? Europeans are far freeer than Americans, and have been for decades.
I've said it before: The freedom to lie and not be contradicted is not the same thing as the freedom to tell (and find!) the truth.
Alleged centrists seem to think that the freedom for oligarchs to buy and control the media is the only true freedom of speech even though it looks an awful lot like Stalinism. In fact, Stalin would have been envious of how smoothly the current propaganda machine operates under the guise of freedom of speech.
Truth-telling has been relegated to obscure corners of the internet where most people won't even stumble on it.
Recently, it doesn't even require classical censorship. Algorithms do the job for the owners. And algorithms are much cheaper than people.
It is no wonder that all the fanboys of the American paradise shut up and flee whenever they are confronted with reality.
Believing in the lies of oligarchical media is not a healthy state of mind. Facts are the only cure for that condition, but truth hurts when you're not used to dealing with it.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Democracy is and always has been completely dependent on voters taking the time and trouble to properly inform themselves about the people and policies they are voting for. If they can't be bothered to do that, if they're happy to swallow even the most blatant and transparent of lies provided they agree with their prejudices, they can be easily manipulated into voting against their own best interests, and in the interests of the people doing the manipulating. That's when democracy fails.
Enough voters now seem to live in a self-imposed bubble of ignorance, prejudice and misinformation for democracy to be failing worldwide. The problem is most acute in the US, but it's not unique to it. In my country ignorant, bigoted voters expelled their own country from the world's largest free trade area. In democracies all over the world willfully ignorant voters are blaming the most powerless and harmless sections of their population for the problems in their lives, most of which are actually caused by the most powerful and dangerous, and voting accordingly . Democracy is now the problem, rather than the solution.
At 71 I can only be grateful that I never had children, and hope that I don't live long enough to see the worst of what's coming.
Don't worry about F-bombs. You can write ◊◊◊◊ as many times as you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ want to. Just don't try to cheat the autocorrect.
Oh no, please don't go there! Don't blame the voters! Democracy was always meant to deceive and disappoint the voters. It's the reason why it so often leads to fascism. It was always meant to make voters think that democracy is something other than what it actually is, something good, something useful for the voters, an instrument for ordinary people rather than the oligarchs in power.
But I have already pointed out what representative democracy is in several posts in another thread.
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arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
We Australians wouldn't have ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ survived here otherwise.
huh?
I was referring to the build up to WW2 and how post-WW2, there was a very good reason for Europe to react the way they did, and maybe we should have listened to those lessons here at home.
A short video clip (10 sec.) shows her reporting when he takes aim at her and fires.
There are several Nazis in the thread making serves-her-right comments or making up with excuses, like "she was blocking the road." She wasn't.
Photos:
THE LAW on X, June 9, 2025
This copper turns, aims, fires and then turns away again!!!
He deliberately shot at her!
WTAF?
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Donal
Philosopher
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,823
Factual relaying what cops are doing hurts their feelings, which is an act of savage violence against those brave, super-duper tough officers. They had to defend themselves.
Another journalist shot and injured with a plastic bullet / baton round.
British photographer injured by 'plastic bullet' during LA protests
Nick Stern says he has undergone emergency surgery for his injuries after documenting the protests.
www.bbc.co.uk
Safe-Keeper
My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
It's 2020 all over again, apparently.
Any of our resident totally-not-fascists-or-Dump-supporters want to share your thoughts on US servicemen wantonly targetting reporters?
I have a feeling all I'll be hearing is the crickets again.
Good luck with that. Cowardice is MAGAs most defining trait.
Not a Trump supporter, and the shooting in the video was unacceptable.
However, it appears that it was police and not "US servicemen" doing the shooting.
Just thought I'd point that out in the interest of correctly assigning responsibility.
Safe-Keeper
My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
You're right. In my language the word for servicemen apply just as much (or more) to police than to the military. I keep forgetting it's the other way around in English, so when I said servicemen I meant police or military.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Yes indeed. Unless the F bomb is the first word of "fascist," an obscenity still allowed in full. But you can ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ well say ◊◊◊◊ all you want, and the autocensor will kindly un-◊◊◊◊ your post, but as far as I recall, it replaces the letters in such a way that if you word happens to be a four letter one the context will probably be obvious. So go ahead and join the party. (Note, I'm going to post this and edit very quickly if I am mistaken about hyphenated "un" versions of the offensive word!Don't worry about F-bombs. You can write ◊◊◊◊ as many times as you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ want to. Just don't try to cheat the autocorrect.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
If the autocensor lets it through, then by definition it's okay to say.
When Denmark got its first constitution, there was much discussion in the ruling classes about the wisdom of letting the common people, aka riff-raff having a vote. In the end it was decided to limit voting to rich males only. It took a long time before voting was extended to all, but it is ironic that we now see the effect as being the same: only the rich people have influence (apart from the gender thing). In fact, it is worse now, because only the super-rich people have influence.
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
Sure, but at least we don’t have to endure the travesty of the brown lady and her cackle.How soon before US troops start firing into crowds of peaceful US citizens?
And martial law is called? And the "undesirables" get rounded up?
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alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
Since the lid is off now, I won't be surprised to see people actually blocking the military parade in DC (since they've been bold enough to block traffic on roads, and it happens more often.) One problem is the mixed message of preventing a celebration of Flag Day, which I doubt will be the intent. It will be a protest against The POSOTUS' birthday parade.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
We need a proper American tank man.
Safe-Keeper
My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
For those who didn't know, before Tank Man it was a whole crowd, and it didn't just block a single tank but a whole truck convoy bound for Beijing, which was stranded for (I seem to recall) days. The protesters had to bring the soldiers food and water. Eventually the entire convoy just had to turn around and go back.
Unfortunately, the premier reacted to that by just sending another convoy, with sterner orders and backed by tanks.
As a side note, I'd love to see Dump's discount May day parade be blocked, but I also fear it'd be an incredibly dangerous thing to attempt.
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
Fascinating to watch that "fight against the tyranny of the government" aspect of the second amendment in action. 
Hercules56
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2013
- Messages
- 15,171
If Trump has a real Reichstag Fire moment, such as a massive foreign or domestic terror attack, or a massive left-wing riots, what would Trump do?
He could also self-create it by attacking Iran. Or China.
But then what are his plans? Lock up everyone registered as a Democrat? Install martial law? Recess Congress and not let them back into session?
He could also self-create it by attacking Iran. Or China.
But then what are his plans? Lock up everyone registered as a Democrat? Install martial law? Recess Congress and not let them back into session?
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Hercules56
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2013
- Messages
- 15,171
President does have the authority to adjourn Congress. Until he decides they should come back. This may be his end game, in order to seize power.
Tero
Philosopher
Former Defense Secretary and retired Marine Corps General James Mattis has released a statement:
IN UNION THERE IS STRENGTH
I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.
When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.
We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.
James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.
Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.
Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.
We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.
Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.
IN UNION THERE IS STRENGTH
I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.
When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.
We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.
James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.
Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.
Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.
We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.
Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
It is the sworn duty of every soldier to disobey an illegal order.
Sometimes soldiers do more than that. Does anybody else remember this?
Assassination of Anwar Sadat (Wikipedia)
When Sadat came into power, he did a lot of stuff that resembled what Trump is attempting to do to 'make Egypt great again'.
Corrective revolution (Egypt) (Wikipedia)
ETA: Somebody should tell Trump the story about Sadat. It might make him wet his pants (again?) instead of enjoying his birthday parade.
Assassination of Anwar Sadat (Wikipedia)
When Sadat came into power, he did a lot of stuff that resembled what Trump is attempting to do to 'make Egypt great again'.
Corrective revolution (Egypt) (Wikipedia)
ETA: Somebody should tell Trump the story about Sadat. It might make him wet his pants (again?) instead of enjoying his birthday parade.
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