Should sanctuary cities be tolerated?

1 crime is too many.
And this (as I expected) is where you've exposed yourself.

You really tried to do the motte-and-bailey again, where you've stated the technically correct position that immigrants contribute to crime numbers in absolute terms (as though anyone was operating under the belief that the number of crimes committed by immigrants was literally zero), while avoiding the more important truth that crime rates among immigrants is lower than that of citizens.

So what do you do when given the opportunity to state a more thorough fact about immigrants and crime? You dodge. Because telling the truth about immigrants and crime rates would conflict with your goal of making brown people look scary and dangerous.

You just don't like immigrants and will use the absolute loosest of justification to lump them into the "bad news" category.
 
It's not. I agree. But I don't know how you can know that. I would argue that when produce is double/triple what it previously was because illegal immigrants are no longer harvesting those crops, maybe we are not better off.

We can hire cheap labor through foreign worker programs like other nations do. Or we can pay legal residents of the USA fair wages.

But you seem to prefer to pay illegals ◊◊◊◊ wages so you can get cheaper tomatoes.

By that rational, we would better off if we killed off half of America's population. Is that next?
:rolleyes: Ignorant, dishonest strawman. Do you have anything better?
 
.....So what do you do when given the opportunity to state a more thorough fact about immigrants and crime? You dodge. Because telling the truth about immigrants and crime rates would conflict with your goal of making brown people look scary and dangerous.

Race has nothing to do with this, your race card is pathetic and tired.

You just don't like immigrants and will use the absolute loosest of justification to lump them into the "bad news" category.

I love immigrants. Some of the best people I ever met, ◊◊◊◊ ed and worked with were/are immigrants.

Really dishonest of you to lump illegal and legal immigrants together.
 
Race has nothing to do with this, your race card is pathetic and tired.



I love immigrants. Some of the best people I ever met, ◊◊◊◊ ed and worked with were/are immigrants.
But they will commit some level of crime and so we are better off with out them. One crime is too many and we simply can't risk it.
 
We can hire cheap labor through foreign worker programs like other nations do. Or we can pay legal residents of the USA fair wages.

But you seem to prefer to pay illegals ◊◊◊◊ wages so you can get cheaper tomatoes.
I prefer that we write some laws that makes sense. That we don't play games with immigration.
:rolleyes: Ignorant, dishonest strawman. Do you have anything better?
It was none of those things. Yes, more people equals more overall crime. That is true. Which is all your point that illegal immigrants adds to overall crime demonstrates. It goes to reason that if we want to reduce crime, than we should be in favor of decreasing the population by any means. Otherwise your point is a red herring.
 
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I wonder if Herc has stated support for arresting those that hire undocumented immigrant workers. If MAGA really cared, that is who they should target.
 
I wonder if Herc has stated support for arresting those that hire undocumented immigrant workers. If MAGA really cared, that is who they should target.
Which is what I've been saying for decades. If Republicans actually gave a damn about protecting American wages they would have been demanding that. So instead of jailing corporate farmers etc, they are going after some poor itinerant fruit picker, dairy worker or drywall hanger.
 
Which is what I've been saying for decades. If Republicans actually gave a damn about protecting American wages they would have been demanding that. So instead of jailing corporate farmers etc, they are going after some poor itinerant fruit picker, dairy worker or drywall hanger.
Exactly. What they really care about is punishing people of color for.. being people of color. Immigration is just an excuse. Heck, even american citizens of color are getting punished with this.
 
The evidence was provided upthread
According to Congress, illegal aliens are a net fiscal drain on govt resources.


Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. This result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work, and they do pay some taxes, including income and payroll taxes. The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and tax payments. It also means a large share qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Like their less-educated and low income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create.”
 
Exactly. What they really care about is punishing people of color for.. being people of color. Immigration is just an excuse. Heck, even american citizens of color are getting punished with this.
I think you play the race card as an excuse for being unable to come up with a better argument.

When in doubt, yell "racism!!!!".
 
According to Congress, illegal aliens are a net fiscal drain on govt resources.


Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. This result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work, and they do pay some taxes, including income and payroll taxes. The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and tax payments. It also means a large share qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Like their less-educated and low income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create.”
That's a testimony of a guy. This guy: https://plotagainstimmigrants.com/network/steven-camarota/
 
There is ZERO evidence of large numbers of people with current Green Cards or Visas being round up.

Its a myth in your head.
How large is large enough? Are you saying that the cancellation of student visas is fake news?

As for your accusation of anarchism, get a grip. If you count people as a group, and do not distinguish between them, you are dehumanizing them. That's simply the case, whether or not it's right. If you say all murderers should be imprisoned, you are, essentially dehumanizing them by discounting their excuses and what they might claim as their other virtues. That's a good thing at times, but it's a thing. It has nothing to do with whatever strange ideas you might have about anarchy or one world. Sometimes you have to treat people without regard to their individuality or their character outside the group they are in, or the things they have done. Sometimes you need to say "I don't care." When and where that line is drawn is a matter for other argument, but you can't just pretend that if it's right you're not doing it.
 
We can hire cheap labor through foreign worker programs like other nations do. Or we can pay legal residents of the USA fair wages.

But you seem to prefer to pay illegals ◊◊◊◊ wages so you can get cheaper tomatoes.


:rolleyes: Ignorant, dishonest strawman. Do you have anything better?
There are many things we can do, but right now, right here, we are not doing them. What ought to be the case is a good thing to think about but it is of little help in deciding how to act today with regard to what is happening today.
 
Sanctuary cities are kind of ironic:
  1. Don't help out with immigration enforcement.
  2. More work for the feds.
  3. More illegal immigrants coming to your city.
  4. More feds coming to your city to handle the additional work you're leaving for them.
  5. Even more feds coming to your city because, as Willie Sutton might have said, "that's where the illegals are".
  6. Many progressive idiot tears are shed over all the feds that are in your city.
I mean, I get not wanting to participate in ICE holds and whatnot. I can respect that as a principled position to take. What I can't respect is the unprincipled wailing and gnashing of teeth when the obvious consequences come to pass in due time. You don't want to do the feds' job? Fine. You want the feds to also not come and do the job themselves? Boop to that.
 
I take it you have no idea.

Well, googling "how many student visas cancelled" yields, from various sources, numbers anywhere from 1,000 to 1,700. The 1,700 is from al Jazeera & I'd normally hesitate to trust it, but a finger or two of scrolling brought me to an estimate of 1,500 student visas restored by Trump's regime because of all the lawsuits that have been brought.

I can't get the knack of posting links (sorry, but I'm old 'n thick-thumbed) so maybe somebody else can do a deeper dig.

The roundness of the numbers suggests that they're rather fluid.
But damfino.
 
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I take it you have no idea.
You're the one who keeps bringing up numbers here. Presumably this means you have an idea of what numbers are acceptable, and, one hopes, an idea of how one might keep those numbers at an acceptable level. Why don't you tell us your thoughts?

I've read that something around 1800 student visas were revoked, though revocations may have been reversed. In the big picture, since there are millions of student visas, is that an acceptable number? Does it make a difference why they are revoked? Does it make a difference whether they are revoked for real offenses against the common good or for unpopular political opinions or for petty vengeance against the institutions they attend? Does it make a difference whether the threat of revocation, which has been realized in at least some cases, influences the freedom of expression of everyone?

You're the one who continues to claim that the issue is mathematically insignificant, so why don't you start by telling us where your line might be drawn?
 

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