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Cont: Scorpion's Spiritualism, Part Deux

Darat said:
Certainly in yours there is the fact that it was necessary for a 3 year old child to be kidnapped, raped multiple times by multiple men then beheaded. But hey your philosophy gives you a nice warm feeling when you go into certain buildings so that’s all OK.
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Desperate affairs require desperate measures. Horatio Nelson (or perhaps Shakespeare)
 
Scorpion said:
I know that all the psychiatrists I ever saw wrote in their notes that I was delusional.
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That was back in the 70s or 80s, was it not? Would it help if I told you that mental health care has come an awful long way since then? Actually I know it wouldn't because I've told you that before.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Again Scorpion, you have a mental illness that clouds your ability to accurately judge your own experiences.

Your mind is so closed and yet you accuse everyone else of having a closed mind for not immediately agreeing with all the pseudo-scientific and religious claptrap you come out with.
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Are you qualified in psychology, if not how dare you tell me my beliefs are because I am mentally ill. No psychiatrist ever told me that, they all humored me while dishing out drugs. I know what they thought because I got my psychiatric file under the data protection act.
Telling me my beliefs are delusional might have upset me a lot, in fact people treating me as crazy did upset me when I was young, but I am too long in the tooth to be deceived by the ignorance of others any longer. You can say what you like and it has no more effect on me that it would have if you pissed on a duck.
 
Darat said:
Pity those positive vibrations that were beneficial for you required a 3 year old child to be kidnapped, raped by multiple men and then beheaded. But hey you feel nice so hard luck for that child, but not to worry she had to learn a lesson so it wasn't really bad what she suffered eh?
Click to expand...
How many times will you say the same thing? I got the point the first time you said it many times ago. Usually you say this when I mention reincarnation, but what has horrible things happening in the world got to do with my feelings?
 
Scorpion said:
Are you qualified in psychology
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You are not qualified in psychology. Further, it is a well understood principle that schizophrenics cannot self-diagnose.

Scorpion said:
...if not how dare you tell me my beliefs are because I am mentally ill.
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No one here has attempted to diagnose you. You admitted you suffered (and probably still suffer) from schizophrenia. There are plenty of us who have experience living with and dealing with schizophrenics. When we tell you that your anecdotes are consistent with what we expect from schizophrenia, that is not an ignorant supposition.

Scorpion said:
No psychiatrist ever told me that, they all humored me while dishing out drugs. Telling me my beliefs are delusional might have upset me a lot...
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Irrelevant. You were diagnosed and treated.

Scorpion said:
...but I am too long in the tooth to be deceived by the ignorance of others any longer. You can say what you like and it has no more effect on me that it would have if you pissed on a duck.
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You're clearly very bothered by it. No one is trying to shame you for suffering from mental illness. However as it stands, it remains the best explanation for your claims.
 
Scorpion said:
How many times will you say the same thing? I got the point the first time you said it many times ago. Usually you say this when I mention reincarnation, but what has horrible things happening in the world got to do with my feelings?
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It remains relevant as long as you maintain and promote your religion. It's just desserts. You maintain a belief system that is pure imagination. You have no evidence for it, and you know it. Further, you claim superiority over those who don't accept your unevidenced beliefs. As long as that's the case, you can expect to have the moral shortcomings of your religion brought up.
 
JayUtah said:
It remains relevant as long as you maintain and promote your religion. It's just desserts. You maintain a belief system that is pure imagination. You have no evidence for it, and you know it. Further, you claim superiority over those who don't accept your unevidenced beliefs. As long as that's the case, you can expect to have the moral shortcomings of your religion brought up.
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Darat is deliberately being a pain in the ass. He has said the same thing over and over again. He did a search for the most horrible thing he could find to throw at me and has done it ever since.
 
Scorpion said:
Darat is deliberately being a pain in the ass.
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He's holding your feet to the fire over a glaring moral discrepancy in your supposedly benign religion. That's what skeptics do. If you promote your religion in a skeptics forum, those skeptics will indeed be a "pain in the ass" over such things.

Scorpion said:
He has said the same thing over and over again.
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As have you. Raising the same claims over and over again is likely to result in the same rebuttals over and over again.

Scorpion said:
He did a search for the most horrible thing he could find to throw at me and has done it ever since.
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That your religion seems to accept or even promote horrible things is a problem with your religion, not the people who point that out.
 
Nella Jones is a psychic who tells us how to develop our own powers in her book. There was a television program in which two retired police officers gave evidence she had helped them find a stolen Vermeer painting.

 
JayUtah said:
He's holding your feet to the fire over a glaring moral discrepancy in your supposedly benign religion. That's what skeptics do. If you promote your religion in a skeptics forum, those skeptics will indeed be a "pain in the ass" over such things.


As have you. Raising the same claims over and over again is likely to result in the same rebuttals over and over again.


That your religion seems to accept or even promote horrible things is a problem with your religion, not the people who point that out.
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The theory of reincarnation does not promote horrible things. It says that if horrible things happen to us unjustly we are compensated in future incarnations.
 
Scorpion said:
Nella Jones is a psychic who tells us how to develop our own powers in her book.'
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A common money-making strategy for self-proclaimed psychics.

Scorpion said:
There was a television program in which two retired police officers gave evidence she had helped them find a stolen Vermeer painting.

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James Randi tested her. She failed.

 
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Scorpion said:
Are you qualified in psychology, if not how dare you tell me my beliefs are because I am mentally ill. No psychiatrist ever told me that, they all humored me while dishing out drugs. I know what they thought because I got my psychiatric file under the data protection act.
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Psychologists recognise that confrontation is often non-optimal, and this is not the same as "humouring" you. If you sought treatment today, you would find that drugs are only one of several treatment options. Mental health treatment has changed a lot in the last thirty years. In particular, patient agency is considered much more important for treatment now than it was in the 70s and 80s, and even into the 90s, when people were still being involuntarily committed for all sorts of reasons. Involuntary commitment is now only a last resort option for extreme cases.

And no, I am not qualified in psychology, but I have been in a long-term relationship for fifteen years with a mental health services consumer and consumer advocate, and a professional who is in the final stages of her PhD in mental health policy. So though my knowledge of the subject is second hand, I am not speaking from a position of complete ignorance.
Scorpion said:
Telling me my beliefs are delusional might have upset me a lot, in fact people treating me as crazy did upset me when I was young, but I am too long in the tooth to be deceived by the ignorance of others any longer. You can say what you like and it has no more effect on me that it would have if you pissed on a duck.
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While it is true that "delusion" is a term that carries a lot of baggage, you must remember that you went through extraordinary means to acquire access to your records, which is something that most people do not do. In medical records, professionals will use terms like "psychosis" or "delusion" in their technical sense without intending for the stigma that the common use of those words carries. Also, remember that thirty years ago it was still appropriate to say that someone's intellectual development has been "retarded" because that too was a technical term that was used for decades and only became a slur later, and that language is no longer used by medical professionals. Things have changed.

I guarantee you, though, that in none of those medical records will the word "crazy" be found. That has never been a technical term in mental health.
 
Scorpion said:
Nella Jones is a psychic who tells us how to develop our own powers in her book. There was a television program in which two retired police officers gave evidence she had helped them find a stolen Vermeer painting.

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Utter rubbish, and more evidence- as if it were needed- that you are so gullible.
forums.digitalspy.com

Nella Jones. A Psychic who helped the police? - Page 10

From Dean Radin
forums.digitalspy.com forums.digitalspy.com

Also this:
In 1991 tests of British “police psychic” Nella Jones indicated that her ability to “psychometrize” possible murder weapons was nonexistent.
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Police Psychics: Do They Really Solve Crimes? | Skeptical Inquirer

Is it a matter of science versus mysticism as some assert, or an issue of having an open mind as opposed to a closed one?
skepticalinquirer.org skepticalinquirer.org
 
The assumption amongst the general public always seems to be that believers in the paranormal/supernatural are more open minded than sceptics, but nothing could be further from the truth. Sceptics are always open to listening to and investigating any evidence believers offer, whilst believers never bother to even look for, let alone at, evidence against them before swallowing them whole. Even worse, when pointed at such evidence they double down on their wilful ignorance rather than open their minds long enough to consider it.

This thread is a textbook example. Scorpion has been a member of this forum for 12 years, during which many posters have patiently (or occasionally, and understandably, impatiently) tried to introduce him to the concept of critical thinking, yet he is still posting claims without making the slightest attempt to verify them first. I predict he will not even acknowledge, let alone look at and consider, the information just posted by JayUtah and Cosmic Yak about Nella Jones.
 
Scorpion said:
How many times will you say the same thing? I got the point the first time you said it many times ago. Usually you say this when I mention reincarnation, but what has horrible things happening in the world got to do with my feelings?
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As many times as you bring up your disgusting beliefs I will remind you that you believe it is necessary that a 3 year old is kidnapped, raped multiple times and beheaded for you to have a nice feeling when you enter some buildings.
 
Scorpion said:
Darat is deliberately being a pain in the ass. He has said the same thing over and over again. He did a search for the most horrible thing he could find to throw at me and has done it ever since.
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As ever your recollections are untrue. I used to use a hypothetical - a case of a 2 year old being raped by soldiers. You objected that on the grounds of it being a hypothetical so I found a real example of that type of thing happening. Indeed it is far from the worse example I did and can find. Do you want a list of a few of the terrible things done to infants in the last 12 months?
 
Darat said:
As ever your recollections are untrue. I used to use a hypothetical - a case of a 2 year old being raped by soldiers. You objected that on the grounds of it being a hypothetical so I found a real example of that type of thing happening. Indeed it is far from the worse example I did and can find. Do you want a list of a few of the terrible things done to infants in the last 12 months?
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Yea ! why don't you list more poisonous things, at least it will be a change. But it will still have nothing to do with my feelings of psychic energy.
 
Scorpion said:
Yea ! why don't you list more poisonous things, at least it will be a change. But it will still have nothing to do with my feelings of psychic energy.
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It is according to you why you have feelings of psychic energy. As ever if you don't like what your religion promulgates perhaps you should consider the values of your religion.
 
If matter and anti matter collide, all atoms will be converted back into energy. Therefore matter is an illusion.
 
Scorpion said:
If matter and anti matter collide, all atoms will be converted back into energy. Therefore matter is an illusion.
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No. The existence of physical reactions that convert between matter and energy does not establish that matter is simply some illusory, degenerate form of energy. No, a reaction between matter and antimatter will not doom the universe.

Further, we have constantly had to correct your ongoing equivocation between energy as a well-defined concept in physics, and "energy" which you admit is just your word to embody whatever woo you're slinging today. Your beliefs have nothing to do with physics. Stop insinuating that they do.
 
His most impressive achievement was predicting, in 1934, that Hitler would rise to power in Germany. Something he could have learned had already happened by reading a newspaper.

He's also known to have given remote readings of at least one patient's health without noticing that they were dead.
 
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EHocking said:
I suggest you never hold a lit stick of gelignite.
Unfortunately after such a demonstration, you would not be around to realise your “matter is an illusion” argument is bollocks.
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Forget gelignite, I'm willing to demonstrate that matter isn't an illusion with a pile of medium sized pebbles, I call it the "Losers Club Proof"
 
Scorpion said:
If matter and anti matter collide, all atoms will be converted back into energy. Therefore matter is an illusion.
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Lol, no.

This is just lazy faux intellectualism hiding behind particle physics you obviously don't understand. For the record, I have at best a basic grasp of the subject, but enough to know not to use is when I discuss investigating the paranormal. The reason for this is I already know I'm treading on thin ice when discussing any thesis I have about some unexplained phenomenon, and throwing particle physics into the conversation lays bare my colossal lack of knowledge on the subject...just as you've done here.

Before I responded to this post I looked up what happens where matter and antimatter collide, and spent a good twenty minutes reading cool stuff from a variety of universities, and the fun-bunch at Cern:

www.home.cern

The matter-antimatter asymmetry problem

www.home.cern www.home.cern

Here's the thing, I find Antimatter confusing, fun, but confusing. But this post is standard Woo-believing twaddle. What kind of energy is it converted back into, BTW? See, the type of energy created is dependent upon the types of atoms colliding, and that means matter is quiet real (if I'm interpreting this correctly). You can't hide behind physics while claiming science is limited because the physics you're using proves you wrong.

You throw the word, "Energy" around without definition. What specific energy are you talking about? Is it EM? Gamma? X-rays? Gravitational? Radiant? Dark Radiant (I made this up)? I have a pair of multimeters, I can't be the only one here who hasn't grabbed the metal probes to check our resistance on the meter while switching the knob. Human bodies have an EMF. Dead human bodies do not. We understand the process of the respiratory in the creation of electricity in our bodies. When we die the electricity doesn't fly off into space, it just stops. Don't talk to us about energy unless you define it.
 
There is well known authority for the simple, concrete, scientific definition of energy. Take Einstein's equation, E=mc2, that every schoolchild knows but so few spend the 30 seconds it takes to understand. Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared. Speed is a function of distance and time, so energy can be expressed in mass, distance, and time. That's how we define work that can be done: actual, physical work. Energy is a measurement of work. If I lift a rock, I'm inputting enough potential energy to dent the surface of the table one centimeter when I drop it. The calories of chemical potential energy that my bloodstream absorbs when I eat a Power Bar charge up my muscles enough to dig 100kg of dirt in my garden. Nowhere did Einstein discuss hovering glowing clouds, or fields of mystical power generated by human spirits.

When spiritualists discuss energy, don't blindly accept what they're saying simply because energy is a word you're familiar with, and that sounds scientific. In many cases, their usage of the word is meaningless. When you hear the word energy casually used to explain a mystical force or capability, require clarification. Require that the energy be defined. Is it heat? Is it a spinning flywheel?

Here's a good test. When you hear the word energy used in a spiritual or paranormal sense, substitute the phrase "measurable work capability." Does the usage still make sense? Are you actually being given any information that supports the claim being made? Remember, energy itself is not the thing being measured: energy is the measurement of work performed or of potential.
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skeptoid.com

New Age Energy

An examination of energy, as new agers use the term.
skeptoid.com
 
I have no problem with the understanding that "energy" can have multiple meanings, formal and informal. We talk about people having good or bad "energy" simply based on their behavior or the impression they convey. If you want to talk about "psychic energy" and having it mean some nebulous thing, that's par for the course. But if you start talking about matter-antimatter annihilation, you're talking about the specific meaning of energy that applies in physics and nowhere else. Scorpion has told us he can't quite nail down what he means by "energy" in the context of his beliefs. But if he starts equating it to energy in physics, then he's just plain wrong. And yes we can say that.
 
Pixel42 said:
"How many joules?" is a good question to ask people who are using the word energy without the slightest understanding of what it means.
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I have a city and guilds in radio television and electronics, and a separate qualification in microprocessors.
 
JayUtah said:
I have no problem with the understanding that "energy" can have multiple meanings, formal and informal. We talk about people having good or bad "energy" simply based on their behavior or the impression they convey. If you want to talk about "psychic energy" and having it mean some nebulous thing, that's par for the course. But if you start talking about matter-antimatter annihilation, you're talking about the specific meaning of energy that applies in physics and nowhere else. Scorpion has told us he can't quite nail down what he means by "energy" in the context of his beliefs. But if he starts equating it to energy in physics, then he's just plain wrong. And yes we can say that.
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If I am right and there is a spirit world, and in fact, many higher planes of existence, and they underlay the physical universe, there must be an unknown form of energy involved. It may not be detectable yet, but in my beliefs there is every reason to suppose such energy may be discovered someday.
 
Scorpion said:
If I am right and there is a spirit world, and in fact, many higher planes of existence, and they underlay the physical universe, there must be an unknown form of energy involved. It may not be detectable yet, but in my beliefs there is every reason to suppose such energy may be discovered someday.
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But you claim you can detect the energy.
Plus, your logical fallacy is Appeal to Future Discoveries.

Escape to the future

An escape to the future is a logical fallacy that is functionally similar to the God of the gaps argument and occurs when someone claims their worldview will soon prevail because the evidence is in the making or that their victory is just round the corner. Pseudosciences do this all the time.
rationalwiki.org rationalwiki.org
 
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