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[Continuation] Scorpion's Spiritualism, Part Deux

Scorpion said:
I think it is clear enough that most people do not hear spirit voices.
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Doesn't answer any of my questions.
Scorpion said:
In my case of being given lottery numbers I think it had to be either a highly evolved spirit or an angel of karma that did it. Because a normal spirit like my dead relatives would not be able to see into the future. I think it likely it was an angel of karma who did it because normally it would not be allowed to fix the lottery. So whoever gave me the numbers had to have authority.
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Doesn't answer my questions, attempts to smuggle your conclusion into your premise.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
What you said the first time is not the same as this. You said you had converted him to atheism. Now you're saying he became an atheist by himself. Which is it?



Now you are adding information to what you said earlier. For the record, then: did you know when you applied for the course that if they knew you were schizophrenic, you would be prevented from enrolling? If it was later, how much later? When you found out, was that while you were still doing the course, or after you'd finished?
As a last question, why did you think twice about telling them? Sounds to me like you knew that would be a problem, and so chose not to volunteer that information- which is lying by omission.
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I dissuaded the Muslim from believing in the Quran. it was him who abandoned all faith. I did not try to convert him to spiritualism.


No I did not know at the time I would have been disqualified, I just thought it better not to tell them on the spur of the moment. Later during the course I believe they checked up on me and found out I had schizophrenia. But by that time they had figured I might be able to do the work so the instructor kept an eye on me. I think I heard them discussing me and saying I would not have been accepted on the course if they had known at the start.
 
Scorpion said:
In my case of being given lottery numbers I think it had to be either a highly evolved spirit or an angel of karma that did it. Because a normal spirit like my dead relatives would not be able to see into the future. I think it likely it was an angel of karma who did it because normally it would not be allowed to fix the lottery. So whoever gave me the numbers had to have authority.
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And how exactly is it that you know the exact hierarchy of "angels and spirits" and who is allowed to do what?
 
Scorpion said:
No I did not know at the time I would have been disqualified, I just thought it better not to tell them on the spur of the moment. Later during the course I believe they checked up on me and found out I had schizophrenia. But by that time they had figured I might be able to do the work so the instructor kept an eye on me. I think I heard them discussing me and saying I would not have been accepted on the course if they had known at the start.
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Really, this is nonsense: even before the Data Protection Act and its subsequent iterations all NHS clinicians will have been subject to the rules, regulations, legislation, professional codes of conduct, trust policies and the like concerning this sort of sharing of personal, confidential information.

Not to mention that I am unaware of any rules which would exclude someone with a psychosis from such a course (evidence to support this sort of exclusion will be welcomed) and could have been illegal.

Another explanation does exist...
 
Scorpion said:
If you want something hateful here is a verse from the unholy Quran.

Surah 5.33
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
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Again, it in no way answers how you manage to reconcile the fact that in your version of spiritualism spirits are both able to affect the world in easy ways for trivial reasons (giving you a computer), yet unable or unwilling to act in preventing greater evils (real or perceived by you).
The Muslim faith is 1400 years old (give or take a few decades). In all that time your spirit world did not act against it in a way that is detectable.
So clearly your spirit world is OK with the faith.
OR
Your spirit world is weaker than the spirit(s) supporting Islam.
OR
Your spirit world exists only in your head and history is only shaped by human foibles.
 
Scorpion said:
I don't know exactly, its just a bit of guess work.
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Yes, you're obviously just making it up as you go. You don't actually know any of it.

You tell us the only way we can properly frame and understand your religion is to steep ourselves in it. First—you've spent decades clinging to this stuff and you still can't provide a cogent explanation of how it works. Second—it's patently clear that anyone with a rudimentary understanding of logic has what it takes to talk about what's wrong with it. It doesn't take years of spiritual sensitivity to see the glaring holes in the supposedly superior moral framework: your so-called angels help you win a bauble in a lottery but stand by helpless while children get raped and murdered. You can't make your desired doctrine fit the facts without falling into moral depravity.

But in the purely logical sense, you keep having to change the spiritual rules in order for it to make sense along one line of reasoning, and in the process you make it untenable along another line of reasoning. You haven't even thought this through in the normal sense of making a logically coherent and consistent narrative.
 
junkshop said:
Worst prophet ever.


Would not recommend, 1 star.
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Clearly did not pay attention in Prophet class. The very first thing they teach you is to never, ever betray doubt or uncertainty. Look at Mo, transparently self-serving, depraved, nonsensical, but never ever in doubt. Look at Moses, no doubt, ever. Look at Jesus, schizo, getting his ass whipped like the bitch to beat all bitches, but never betrayed any doubt ------ well okay, maybe a bit at the end, but at that point he was literally nailed up, and they were pushing whole spears up his ass, so maybe at that point we can cut him some slack. ...Never ever betray doubt, no matter how nonsensical your teachings, no matter how depraved, no matter how self-serving, but never. ever. betray. doubt. is the first thing they teach you.

Sorry, that's an F right there.
 
Scorpion said:
I am not the only person in the world that knows the truth, just the only person on this forum. There are around four hundred spiritualist churches in Britain. They give church services every week which are attended by visiting mediums. So it follows that there are at least four hundred mediums who know a lot more than I do about communicating with the spirit world.
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Irrelevant. Islam has almost 2 billion followers, compared to a few thousand spiritualists. There's almost one and a half billion Catholics, and 900 million Protestants and 1.2 billion Hindus. You're saying that they all have it wrong, and only you and your comparatively tiny sect of spiritualist mediums are the ones who have it right.

Doesn't that strike you as... I don't know, arrogant?

Scorpion said:
I have said I did see a psychiatrist during the last twenty years because my brain was turning to mush from self medicating with alcohol. I needed drink to settle my nerves. But it got completely out of hand. So I went on a new drug called abilify to get off drink. I only take one 15mg tablet a day.
I agree, the modern drugs are effective and I have not had a drink now for over ten years.
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That's great, and better than I'm doing. Are you relying solely on this single intervention or are you also seeing a mental health professional on a regular basis? Both may be necessary.
 
Scorpion said:
I dissuaded the Muslim from believing in the Quran. it was him who abandoned all faith. I did not try to convert him to spiritualism.
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Meaning in your eyes, that you haven't helped him, nor have you helped the angels. Remember, they enabled you to buy your laptop so you could attack Islam online. The only success you report led to that one Muslim not believing in spiritualism. Why would the angels do that? They wasted their efforts on you.

Scorpion said:
No I did not know at the time I would have been disqualified, I just thought it better not to tell them on the spur of the moment. Later during the course I believe they checked up on me and found out I had schizophrenia. But by that time they had figured I might be able to do the work so the instructor kept an eye on me. I think I heard them discussing me and saying I would not have been accepted on the course if they had known at the start.
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1. So you did actually lie by omission.
2. What was the name of the course?
3. Are you sure this claimed overheard conversation actually took place? Are you absolutely sure it wasn't a symptom of your mental health problems?
 
Can I just point out that Abilify, which will be known and prescribed in the UK as aripiprazole (we've had generic prescribing here since I can't remember when), is actually an atypical anti-psychotic and should not be prescribed for alcohol issues?
 
Scorpion said:
I don't know exactly, its just a bit of guess work.
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Exactly my point. You are trying to convince us that you are 100% correct and certain.....................but you are playing guessing games to make things fit when we question them. That is as far from logical as you get.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Really, this is nonsense: even before the Data Protection Act and its subsequent iterations all NHS clinicians will have been subject to the rules, regulations, legislation, professional codes of conduct, trust policies and the like concerning this sort of sharing of personal, confidential information.
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A similar situation exists in the United States with HIPAA, although fewer people are "covered" (i.e., subject to its restrictions) than is generally thought. As an employer, for example, I cannot call up someone's healthcare provider and ask what conditions they might have. Formerly as a college instructor, I could not ask. This is because healthcare providers are strictly forbidden from disclosing the personal health information (PHI) of an adult to anyone except persons explicitly designated by that patient.

Not to mention that I am unaware of any rules which would exclude someone with a psychosis from such a course (evidence to support this sort of exclusion will be welcomed) and could have been illegal.
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Formerly as a college instructor, I could not inquire into health factors of my students. Students with medical conditions that required academic accommodations presented their claims to the university office which made a university-wide ruling and simply informed me of the nature of the accommodation needed without explaining what for. The Americans with Disabilities Act prohibits discrimination in academics at public facilities. You cannot be rejected from publicly accessible education simply because you have a covered mental health condition.

Similarly as an employer I have had employees who suffered from mild schizophrenia symptoms, but who otherwise were competent employees. The ADA requires me to make certain accommodations for schizophrenics upon request, which in these cases were minimally disruptive. For example, we gave all work instructions in writing and retained a specially trained assistant that facilitated interactions in which there might be a symptomatic disconnection.
 
Well, today, and possibly tomorrow, we'll see if those helpful spirits Scorpion endorses will prove to me they exist. I had a dream the other night that I won the lottery's second top prize of 1 million dollars. This is the truth. I wasn't foretold any of the numbers, so I bought $10.00 each of computer picked numbers for the Powerball and Mega Millions, which each have that million as their 2nd top prize. Powerball draws tonight, and Mega Millions tomorrow. The only other specific I recall from my dream was the word "LOCK" flashing over my announced win. This must be their way of telling me the win is in the bag. So, if Scorpion's mystic mentors have given me their favor, my attitude towards their existence could have reason for serious reconsideration. I am not, however, putting any money down on a new car, yet. Update(s) to be coming in the next day or so.
 
Hey I heard that a brand new schizophrenia treatment has recently been approved by the US FDA. Cobenfy (xanomeline and trospium chloride) acts on a completely different set of receptors from most other medications - it targets acetylcholine rather than dopamine - and has a greatly reduced side effect profile.
 
UPDATE: Checked my Powerball tickets today....



and...



...I am out $10.00. I had four numbers match, but none in the same lineup (5 lineups total). Looks like it's all up to tonight's Mega Millions to provide evidence for the existence of benevolent spirits. Update to come tomorrow.
 
MBDK said:
UPDATE: Checked my Powerball tickets today....



and...



...I am out $10.00. I had four numbers match, but none in the same lineup (5 lineups total). Looks like it's all up to tonight's Mega Millions to provide evidence for the existence of benevolent spirits. Update to come tomorrow.
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Just remember we knew you when.
 
Last night I dreamed about being on a nature ramble with Brad Pitt and telling him all sorts of good stuff; the night before I dreamed about loading a removals vans with Johnny Marr.

Are these messages that I'm about to meet someone famous?
 
Cosmic Yak said:
I think it only counts if you intend to convert Messrs Pitt and Marr away from Islam.
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Aaaah, Brad Pitt and I were mostly talking about geology and differential erosion, using the Yoredale series as an example; while Johnny Marr and I were mostly talking about how to arrange boxes in the van...

But, I mean, how many folk have discussed the Yoredale series with Brad Pitt?
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Last night I dreamed about being on a nature ramble with Brad Pitt and telling him all sorts of good stuff; the night before I dreamed about loading a removals vans with Johnny Marr.

Are these messages that I'm about to meet someone famous?
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Why would you need a removal.van to load Johnny Marr, were their loads of him or was he really big? Maybe your dream was warning us to prepare for the Attack of the 50ft Johnny Marr?!?
 
FINAL UPDATE:

Alas, it with heavy heart and light wallet I must announce a perfect Mega Millions lottery ticket. Perfect in the manner that for all five rows of possible winning combinations I had on that ticket...it did not contain a single number that was picked. Basically, I was oh for thirty. So much for benevolent dream-talking spirits...at least for me...
 
Third night in a row a famous person has been in one of my dreams: bugger me, but I was in a queue in Sainsburys with Nigel Farage...

I mean, I wouldn't at all object to meeting Pitt or Marr, but Farage? Just no.

ETA I must add that famous folk do not usually make it into any of my dream worlds: this is unusual.
 
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MBDK said:
FINAL UPDATE:

Alas, it with heavy heart and light wallet I must announce a perfect Mega Millions lottery ticket. Perfect in the manner that for all five rows of possible winning combinations I had on that ticket...it did not contain a single number that was picked. Basically, I was oh for thirty. So much for benevolent dream-talking spirits...at least for me...
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Your post about dreaming numbers reminded me that my mother dreamed four winning numbers on the very first British lottery draw. She said she dreamed all six, but could not remember two of them when she woke up. Never the less she did dream four winning numbers.
 
Scorpion said:
Your post about dreaming numbers reminded me that my mother dreamed four winning numbers on the very first British lottery draw. She said she dreamed all six, but could not remember two of them when she woke up. Never the less she did dream four winning numbers.
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Did she tell you this before or after the drawing?
 
Scorpion said:
Your post about dreaming numbers reminded me that my mother dreamed four winning numbers on the very first British lottery draw. She said she dreamed all six, but could not remember two of them when she woke up. Never the less she did dream four winning numbers.
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That could be true, and I have no doubt she sincerely believed that, but our memory is extraordinarily malleable and essentially changes every time we recall a memory, so I suspect it's probably a false memory. They usually are.
 
Scorpion said:
She told me after the draw. She did not know she would actually win until then.
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OK, let's assume for the sake of argument that her memory of the dream was completely accurate - a very generous assumption.

She knew she'd had a dream about the lottery numbers. She only told you about it after (and because) it came true.

Please stop and think about that.

How many other dreams did she have in her life that seemed to predict something, but which she never bothered to tell you about because they didn't come true?

We remember the hits, forget the misses, and vastly underestimate the likelihood of coincidences occurring. Cognitive biases, remember? Once again: this is why the scientific method (a) had to be invented and (b) is the only truly reliable source of knowledge and understanding about how the world works.

In order for anyone to determine whether their dreams are truly prophetic it would be necessary for them to keep a record of every single dream they have, identify any apparent prophecies, and then record if (and to what extent) they proved accurate. They would then have a record of the misses as well as the hits, and would able to estimate whether the number of hits is greater than would be expected purely by chance.

Please make some effort to understand why that is this time. We're not finding your arguments and evidence unconvincing out of ignorance, prejudice or malice. We're finding them unconvincing because, by any objective measure, they are unconvincing.
 
Scorpion said:
Your post about dreaming numbers reminded me that my mother dreamed four winning numbers on the very first British lottery draw. She said she dreamed all six, but could not remember two of them when she woke up. Never the less she did dream four winning numbers.
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turingtest said:
Did she tell you this before or after the drawing?
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Scorpion said:
She told me after the draw. She did not know she would actually win until then.
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Ok. Do you understand why I asked, and what this means for the nature of the evidence? If she had told you the numbers she dreamed before they were drawn, then it would be your first-hand evidence for your claim that "she did dream four winning numbers," and we could question that for accuracy, timing, etc. But as it is, the only thing you can really know first-hand is that she claimed she dreamed the numbers. One scenario at least theoretically fortifies her claim by making you a witness to it before the salient event; the other is just you passing it on after.

Please understand that this is not to cast aspersions on your mother's honesty- it's purely a matter of primary vs hearsay evidence. There are plenty of people over here (that idiot Trump, for one) who claim to know that Haitians in Ohio are eating cats, but who really only know that they've been told so.
 
turingtest said:
Ok. Do you understand why I asked, and what this means for the nature of the evidence? If she had told you the numbers she dreamed before they were drawn, then it would be your first-hand evidence for your claim that "she did dream four winning numbers," and we could question that for accuracy, timing, etc. But as it is, the only thing you can really know first-hand is that she claimed she dreamed the numbers. One scenario at least theoretically fortifies her claim by making you a witness to it before the salient event; the other is just you passing it on after.

Please understand that this is not to cast aspersions on your mother's honesty- it's purely a matter of primary vs hearsay evidence. There are plenty of people over here (that idiot Trump, for one) who claim to know that Haitians in Ohio are eating cats, but who really only know that they've been told so.
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And second-hand hearsay at that. It's passed through another filter as well, namely Scorpion's memory of what his mother supposedly told him.
 
Aside from issues of reliability, isn't this dream thing a noise about nothing? It's well within the realm of possibility that someone will have a winning number, and well within the realm of possibility that someone will dream it. The likelihood of the two things together is small but hardly zero.

Of course it's very rare that you will be the one it happens to, and you'd be a fool to bet on it ahead of time, but it's likely to happen to someone at some point.

Like the amazing fit of a puddle into a pothole, as a prediction it would be amazing, but as a post-occurrence report it's not much even in the unlikely event that it's true.
 
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