Right Wing Terrorism

[tyr_13]

I don't know that it matters, there are a significant amount of non-hetero MAGA supporters that hate the LGBTQ+ community. It's just like there are plenty of people of color that support MAGA white supremacy.

Case in point: Jaimee Michell of the weird 'Gays Against Groomers' group was on Tucker Carlson the other night and said that the shootings will continue until we end this 'evil' agenda of gender-affirming car.

It's an endorsement of terrorism. And Tucker loved it.

Also, it shows how deeply the mainstream GOP lies about what they mean when they say 'groomer'. Gender-affirming care doesn't groom children for sex. That's just not connected. They just are saying it to legitimize violence and oppression. But people are people, and being in an oppressed group is no guarantee that one won't try to leverage hate for one's own benefit.

 

[johnny karate]

Tonight on Fox News:

His lawyers are going with rainbow on rainbow:

I too want to know his motivation, but they are at the moment an unknown. We have not had any claims from either him or authorities. A lot of people have assumed his motivations without any real evidence.

Followed by a new special from Tucker Carlson that asks the question "Are roving bands of homosexuals murdering elderly people with machetes?". Tucker's special guest, the reanimated corpse of Phyllis Schlafly, has the answer and will explain what you can do to keep grandma and grandpa safe this holiday season.

 

[Stacyhs]

Tonight on Fox News:





Followed by a new special from Tucker Carlson that asks the question "Are roving bands of homosexuals murdering elderly people with machetes?". Tucker's special guest, the reanimated corpse of Phyllis Schlafly, has the answer and will explain what you can do to keep grandma and grandpa safe this holiday season.

 

[Brainster]

The new media spin: the poor non-binary person was harassed by edgelords on the internet until he snapped.

 

[tyr_13]

The new media spin: the poor non-binary person was harassed by edgelords on the internet until he snapped.

No it isn't.

First, Encyclopedia Dramatica isn't 'the media'. Second, they put 'harassment' in scare quotes for a reason.

If you think Ben Collins is blaming them, he appears to just be reporting what they said, that the shooter had an entry, and that Encyclopedia Dramatica had relation to other massing shootings.

Hey, does anyone else remember the right wing reporting that the Uvalde shooter was a trans gender person? The Buffalo one? No? How did that pan out? Neither Collins nor ED is cited there talking about the shooter allegedly being non-binary.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

My money is on it continuing to be the R’s tomorrow. And the day after that. And the day after that. And the day after that…

Really I don't think there are any true R s left in the Republican party, when the last time they had someone like Lincoln, or Teddy Roosevelt?

 

[Robin]

The new media spin: the poor non-binary person was harassed by edgelords on the internet until he snapped.

The question is, was he non-binary before his first interview with the lawyers?

 

[Robin]

Case in point: Jaimee Michell of the weird 'Gays Against Groomers' group was on Tucker Carlson the other night and said that the shootings will continue until we end this 'evil' agenda of gender-affirming car.

It's an endorsement of terrorism. And Tucker loved it.

Specifically, the whole segment was an endorsement of terrorism by Tucker Carlson.

 

[tyr_13]

So...the shooter's father was interviewed and the good Mormon famous for...doing porn and meth...was elated to find out his son was the shooter and not gay.

Conservative values.

EDIT: This is how the shooter could actually be non-binary and still full of hate for the lgbtq community. His family hates anyone connected to it, to the point they would rather their grandson and son be a mass murdering terrorist than be gay, and the shooter might blame the community for it. He could have been brought up to believe the only way to be lgbtq is because that community did something to him.

Or it could be another right-wing troll to further attack the community that was just terrorized. Like the above mentioned assertions that other shooters have been trans gender when there was never any indication of that at all.

Ironically it might make the shooter the first non-binary person to be accepted by mainstream conservatives.

 

[mgidm86]

Hate crime or not, the biggest problem is that this psycho got his hands on a gun.

He's already been upstaged by a Walmart manager who killed 6 employees yesterday, and 4 shot in a parking lot today. And of course that is a small fraction of today's shootings in the US. That's just what is on CNN's front page right now.

This dude is already yesterday's news.

One shooter is a right winger maybe, sure, but the next one is a teenager, and the next one is an angry employee. Statistically people are probably more likely to be shot in a Walmart than any club, and for no reason whatsoever.

The common theme seems to be mental illness and access to guns. But we all know that.

Maybe you can call it right wing terror but right now I hesitate to do so, even if it is a hate crime. Maybe I'm wrong. More info needed, but I don't really care to focus on this particular incident.

People will always hate, nothing new there. It's the access to guns.

Put it this way, if I had kids in school I'd be terrified.

 

[Parsman]

Yes it is the access to guns. We will get the usual "My freedoms", constitution, good gun owners excuses handed out again no doubt but in other countries where mass shootings have occurred (my own country of Scotland for example) they have thought about it, decided that there should be sensible restrictions on gun ownership and have implemented changes that have made mass shootings a rarity. In America you have 2 in 1 week and I very much fear the political response will be to shrug their shoulders and say "nothing to be done" along with too many people in your general population.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Yes it is the access to guns. We will get the usual "My freedoms", constitution, good gun owners excuses handed out again no doubt but in other countries where mass shootings have occurred (my own country of Scotland for example) they have thought about it, decided that there should be sensible restrictions on gun ownership and have implemented changes that have made mass shootings a rarity. In America you have 2 in 1 week and I very much fear the political response will be to shrug their shoulders and say "nothing to be done" along with too many people in your general population.

Or, maybe the American people have put in an equal amount of thought and considered it acceptable.

 

[Darat]

Or, maybe the American people have put in an equal amount of thought and considered it acceptable.

Only by the politicians and lobby groups. The opinion polls come back time and time again in favour of changing things.

 

[mgidm86]

Then again, if enough of us wanted it changed we would be a force to be reckoned with. Not nearly enough of us do.

As mentioned above, in other countries like Scotland, the government and the people agreed to do something about it. Here, not enough people want to, and the politicians are paid/rewarded not to care enough.

Ultimately, I'd like to see the 2nd amendment repealed, and in the meantime interpreted rationally. But too many people love their guns.

We are a sick country/society in many ways, and I see a clear and deep divide between people. Maybe we blew it in the Civil War. We didn't clean up the mess completely.

This country needs to grow up.

 

[Lurch]

Only by the politicians and lobby groups. The opinion polls come back time and time again in favour of changing things.

Yet the electorate votes into office enough obstructionists to assure nothing good can be done. Clearly, the populace is not sufficiently caring. A people gets the government it deserves.

 

[Lurch]

Then again, if enough of us wanted it changed we would be a force to be reckoned with. Not nearly enough of us do.

As mentioned above, in other countries like Scotland, the government and the people agreed to do something about it. Here, not enough people want to, and the politicians are paid/rewarded not to care enough.

Ultimately, I'd like to see the 2nd amendment repealed, and in the meantime interpreted rationally. But too many people love their guns.

We are a sick country/society in many ways, and I see a clear and deep divide between people. Maybe we blew it in the Civil War. We didn't clean up the mess completely.

This country needs to grow up.

Canada certainly has room for improvement, and proximity boosts the risk of contamination by the American bacillus. Looking to my south I see the strains of a libertarian selfishness that cannot see its own self destructiveness. Clinging so fiercely to a fatal 'right', in the face of the evidence of its net negative impact and against the demonstrated benefit of at least some curtailment, points to a national sickness indeed.

If stats for civilian-involved shootings showed that more gun deaths resulted from self defence than from criminal aggression, there might be a justification for the widespread ownership of guns. Of course, the very existence of the shootings in the first place points to the underlying problem, leading too easily to an arms race. "People are having to defend themselves because of all the guns in circulation, and so the obvious remedy is more guns!" It's an insane Catch-22. Accent on insanity.

 

[Stacyhs]

Hate crime or not, the biggest problem is that this psycho got his hands on a gun.

He's already been upstaged by a Walmart manager who killed 6 employees yesterday, and 4 shot in a parking lot today. And of course that is a small fraction of today's shootings in the US. That's just what is on CNN's front page right now.

This dude is already yesterday's news.

One shooter is a right winger maybe, sure, but the next one is a teenager, and the next one is an angry employee. Statistically people are probably more likely to be shot in a Walmart than any club, and for no reason whatsoever.

The common theme seems to be mental illness and access to guns. But we all know that.

Maybe you can call it right wing terror but right now I hesitate to do so, even if it is a hate crime. Maybe I'm wrong. More info needed, but I don't really care to focus on this particular incident.

People will always hate, nothing new there. It's the access to guns. Put it this way, if I had kids in school I'd be terrified.

But, but, but...honest citizens need guns to protect themselves from everyone who has guns!

Most people get the fundamental flaw in this.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Then again, if enough of us wanted it changed we would be a force to be reckoned with. Not nearly enough of us do.

As mentioned above, in other countries like Scotland, the government and the people agreed to do something about it. Here, not enough people want to, and the politicians are paid/rewarded not to care enough.

Ultimately, I'd like to see the 2nd amendment repealed, and in the meantime interpreted rationally. But too many people love their guns.

We are a sick country/society in many ways, and I see a clear and deep divide between people. Maybe we blew it in the Civil War. We didn't clean up the mess completely.

This country needs to grow up.

I would also like to see the 2nd amendment repealed

 

[smartcooky]

Then again, if enough of us wanted it changed we would be a force to be reckoned with. Not nearly enough of us do.

As mentioned above, in other countries like Scotland, the government and the people agreed to do something about it. Here, not enough people want to, and the politicians are paid/rewarded not to care enough.

Ultimately, I'd like to see the 2nd amendment repealed, and in the meantime interpreted rationally. But too many people love their guns.

We are a sick country/society in many ways, and I see a clear and deep divide between people. Maybe we blew it in the Civil War. We didn't clean up the mess completely.
This country needs to grow up.

This!

Every Confederate general and every Confederate politician should have been tried for treason and when (not if) they were found guilty, executed.

 

[Stacyhs]

Then again, if enough of us wanted it changed we would be a force to be reckoned with. Not nearly enough of us do.

As mentioned above, in other countries like Scotland, the government and the people agreed to do something about it. Here, not enough people want to, and the politicians are paid/rewarded not to care enough. Ultimately, I'd like to see the 2nd amendment repealed, and in the meantime interpreted rationally. But too many people love their guns. We are a sick country/society in many ways, and I see a clear and deep divide between people. Maybe we blew it in the Civil War. We didn't clean up the mess completely.
This country needs to grow up.

The highlighted I agree with. We are a sick country when it comes to the love of guns. So many people's love of guns in just incomprehensible to me.

I don't agree that we didn't handle the aftermath of the Civil War correctly as far as pardoning Confederates. You can't try millions of people for treason.

 

[Ziggurat]

The question is, was he non-binary before his first interview with the lawyers?

Depends whose rules we want to play by. For the trans activist self-ID crowd, that shouldn't matter, we should always take everyone's word for it, and if you don't you're a transphobe.

If you reject those rules, then yes, that becomes an interesting question.

 

[Brainster]

Depends whose rules we want to play by. For the trans activist self-ID crowd, that shouldn't matter, we should always take everyone's word for it, and if you don't you're a transphobe.

If you reject those rules, then yes, that becomes an interesting question.

Whole lotta people suddenly questioning self-identification. We may have to confiscate their woke cards.

 

[tyr_13]

Depends whose rules we want to play by. For the trans activist self-ID crowd, that shouldn't matter, we should always take everyone's word for it, and if you don't you're a transphobe.

If you reject those rules, then yes, that becomes an interesting question.

Whole lotta people suddenly questioning self-identification. We may have to confiscate their woke cards.

It's great to see resident right wingers using a terrorist attack on the lgbtq community to attack the same community. It's especially good because it is, as always, 'this system won't work because we will use it to hurt you, we are evil' as 'argument'.

Which is what the right in general has been doing, saying the attacks will continue until the 'grooming' stops. Your friends sure like that they can use the threat of violence openly now guys. How do you feel about that?

Now they're even going after the Trevor Project, the anti-suicide crisis program for lgbtq youth, calling it 'grooming'. Yes, the shootings will continue until the threat to children from...not committing suicide, is ended. Can't have lgbtq kids being groomed to live.

 

[tyr_13]

So...the shooter's father was interviewed and the good Mormon famous for...doing porn and meth...was elated to find out his son was the shooter and not gay.

Conservative values.

EDIT: This is how the shooter could actually be non-binary and still full of hate for the lgbtq community. His family hates anyone connected to it, to the point they would rather their grandson and son be a mass murdering terrorist than be gay, and the shooter might blame the community for it. He could have been brought up to believe the only way to be lgbtq is because that community did something to him.

Or it could be another right-wing troll to further attack the community that was just terrorized. Like the above mentioned assertions that other shooters have been trans gender when there was never any indication of that at all.
Ironically it might make the shooter the first non-binary person to be accepted by mainstream conservatives.

******* called it.

 

[johnny karate]

Conservatives after a mass shooting: It’s too soon to talk about gun control.

Conservatives after a mass shooting at a gay club: Now is the perfect time to mock the LGTBQ+ community.

Always such a class act.

 

[Ziggurat]

It's great to see resident right wingers using a terrorist attack on the lgbtq community to attack the same community.

Why are you equating self-ID trans activists with the lgbtq community? These aren't the same thing at all. In fact, lesbians make some of the biggest vocal opponents of the self-ID movement. And self-ID is hardly a universal position even among trans people.

Your desire for conformity within groups borders on the pathological.

 

[tyr_13]

Why are you equating self-ID trans activists with the lgbtq community? These aren't the same thing at all. In fact, lesbians make some of the biggest vocal opponents of the self-ID movement. And self-ID is hardly a universal position even among trans people.

Your desire for conformity within groups borders on the pathological.

Yes, my desire for conformity is so strong I ignored groups like 'Gays Against Groomers' and 'LGB Alliance' and have ruled out the shooter actually being nb.

Wait, no, I did the opposite of those things.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize the right wing trying to use create wedge issues (the LGB Alliance had to reveal in court that not only are they funded by anti-gay right wing groups, but 95% of their members are cishet people). It doesn't mean I don't recognize the craven use of terror attacks like these by the same groups.

So, no, I don't think there is absolute conformity in the community over every detail, but I do know that the lesbian who went on Tucker Carlson and said that these attacks will continue until 'the grooming' ends is still a right wing terrorist regardless of the fact she is a lesbian. You'll spin this as 'any disagreement must be ejected' but no, anyone who leverages terrorism to get try to get their way must be rejected though.

You're using a terrorist attack on the community as leverage to try to drive a wedge in. That's not subtle or clever and it doesn't need entertained as 'I'm just disagreeing'. The cost of this isn't just your dignity, but the further normalization, encouragement, of violence. It is putting one more 'silver lining' into terrorist attacks for your views.

You're going to claim this is just emotional attacks on the right wing, but it's a clear and increasingly common outcome of tactics like you employ. Your fellow right wingers are going increasingly openly fascist and terrorist and you're here leveraging it. What do you think will happen?

I called this long ago too. The right will keep killing more and more and you'll pretend to be against it while doing nothing meaningful to oppose it, and what's more, you'll try to gain from it.

 

[Ziggurat]

So, no, I don't think there is absolute conformity in the community over every detail

Yet you cling to the idea that opposition to self-ID is intrinsically anti-LGBT.

You're using a terrorist attack on the community as leverage to try to drive a wedge in.

The wedge is already there, and I'm not the one driving it. There is an intrinsic conflict of interest between the self-ID activists and other sections of the LGBT community. Pretending it doesn't exist won't make it go away. Hell, pretending that the issue of self-ID itself doesn't exist won't make it go away either. You seem quite reluctant to actually take a stance on self-ID yourself. I wonder why.

I called this long ago too. The right will keep killing more and more and you'll pretend to be against it while doing nothing meaningful to oppose it, and what's more, you'll try to gain from it.

What exactly constitutes doing something meaningful to oppose mass shootings? Because nothing anyone posts on this message board does. And every time a gun control advocate pushes for more gun control in the wake of a shooting, they're trying to benefit from that shooting. That isn't actually what bothers you.

 

[mgidm86]

The highlighted I agree with. We are a sick country when it comes to the love of guns. So many people's love of guns in just incomprehensible to me.

I don't agree that we didn't handle the aftermath of the Civil War correctly as far as pardoning Confederates. You can't try millions of people for treason.

We should have done a lot more than we did. We let the ideology remain and fester...statues, memorials, laws. Flags on frickin' courthouses FFS.

I'm kind of kidding, kind of not when I say we should let them secede again, but this time annihilate them, especially the ideology. I'm letting my emotions run away there obviously, but that's how fed up I am. Our nation could literally fall apart because of these dimwits.

 

[tyr_13]

Yet you cling to the idea that opposition to self-ID is intrinsically anti-LGBT.

Nope, using it here and by the right wing anti-lgbtq people, is though. Using it as a wedge is.

The wedge is already there, and I'm not the one driving it.

You literally are. That's what you're doing. You aren't entitled to anyone pretending you're not.

There is an intrinsic conflict of interest between the self-ID activists and other sections of the LGBT community. Pretending it doesn't exist won't make it go away. Hell, pretending that the issue of self-ID itself doesn't exist won't make it go away either. You seem quite reluctant to actually take a stance on self-ID yourself. I wonder why.

Because it literally doesn't matter here. It hardly matters in high school sports but it is here used only to attack the community that was just terrorized.

If one is against self-ID, then the shooter is a bigot who needs to spend the rest of his life in prison.

If one is for self-ID, then the shooter is a bigot who needs to spend the rest of their life in prison. (Assuming they're an nb who uses they/them.)

The only interesting thing is how craven the right wing is for using this to yet again attack this community.

What exactly constitutes doing something meaningful to oppose mass shootings? Because nothing anyone posts on this message board does.

Really? Nothing? You could incorporate the hateful support of terrorism against the lgbtq community, an almost literal 'nice club you have here, shame if something happened to it again' threat, into your understanding of the people doing that. You could expand your understanding of the 'grooming' accusation from people like Tucker Carlson and DeSantis and your other mainstream GOP friends so that you can speak against it. You could bring it up when other mainstream GOP friends cite people like Carlson. 'Oh, that guy who lies about grooming to threaten gay people?' You could even punish the politicians who do such things by withholding your vote, Hel, even a nasty letter to them!

You'll do nothing meaningful and precious little even token. 'I don't support the shooter, but...' followed by whatever attack you want to make on dems or trans gender people or teachers.

It isn't subtle.

And every time a gun control advocate pushes for more gun control in the wake of a shooting, they're trying to benefit from that shooting. That isn't actually what bothers you.

Because, and this doesn't really need explained but let's do so anyway, gun control actually is salient to this and most other shootings.

You don't want to talk about how even with red flag laws, this county decided to be a 'gun sanctuary'. You don't want to talk about how this shooter got away with tons of threats including against police. You don't want to talk about their MAGA grandfather and their father's crazy hate of the lgbtq community. You know, things that actually do matter in this shooting. You won't take a stance on it and 'it isn't the time' right?

I 'wonder' why.

 

[Stacyhs]

We should have done a lot more than we did. We let the ideology remain and fester...statues, memorials, laws. Flags on frickin' courthouses FFS.

I'm kind of kidding, kind of not when I say we should let them secede again, but this time annihilate them, especially the ideology. I'm letting my emotions run away there obviously, but that's how fed up I am. Our nation could literally fall apart because of these dimwits.

Believe me, I do understand your frustration. There are times I think we'd have been better off in the long run if the South had seceded. But there's that whole pesky not ending slavery thing. It's too late now as it's more a rural vs urban divide rather than north/south geographical.

The nonsense with the statues, Confederate flag waving, etc. really started after Reconstruction ended in 1877. You certainly don't find statues to Hitler, Erich Raeder, Erwin Rommel (even though he fell out of favor, to say the least but the German people didn't know that) in Germany.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

It's actually the silent Civil War, been trying too tell everyone about it for over a decade now but no one Listening so why bother? Both sides using idiots too fight it with conspiracy theorists on both sides ramping up the hate.

No wonder nobody listens to you with your victim blaming. If you were honest and just said it was the far right republican party and their fellow travellers at fault, you'd get more traction.

 

[mgidm86]

Yet you cling to the idea that opposition to self-ID is intrinsically anti-LGBT.



The wedge is already there, and I'm not the one driving it. There is an intrinsic conflict of interest between the self-ID activists and other sections of the LGBT community. Pretending it doesn't exist won't make it go away. Hell, pretending that the issue of self-ID itself doesn't exist won't make it go away either. You seem quite reluctant to actually take a stance on self-ID yourself. I wonder why.



What exactly constitutes doing something meaningful to oppose mass shootings? Because nothing anyone posts on this message board does. And every time a gun control advocate pushes for more gun control in the wake of a shooting, they're trying to benefit from that shooting. That isn't actually what bothers you.

Benefit how? Saving lives? Disgusting, I know. If I'm wrong, in what other ways is this beneficial to gun control advocates? The majority of all Americans want stricter gun control. The benefit to me would be less people dying, perhaps even myself.

The only ones playing politics after a shooting are the right wingers by saying that addressing it is political. Go **** yourselves. Wanting less gun violence isn't politics and neither is pointing out the idiocy of our policies, ESPECIALLY after a shooting.

ETA:
I think a lot of us on both sides believe it is wrong to talk about this or that after a shooting. Utterly ridiculous. I wonder which group came up with that one?

 

[Stacyhs]

My daughter wants an AR-15 for Christmas. I told her she'd just shoot her arm off.

 

[Brainster]

Nope, using it here and by the right wing anti-lgbtq people, is though. Using it as a wedge is.

Wedge issues: Issues where the logical consequence of liberal ideals produces a conflict with other liberal ideals. Conservatives are big meanies for pointing these out.

 

[tyr_13]

Wedge issues: Issues where the logical consequence of liberal ideals produces a conflict with other liberal ideals. Conservatives are big meanies for pointing these out.

Right wing terrorist attacks on the lgbtq community are a consequence of self-ID?

That's the same reasoning as the mainstream GOP who have been saying the shootings will continue until the 'grooming' stops.

It is, quite literally, one step removed from 'nice place you've got here, be a shame it something happened to it'. 'This is a consequence of your ideals' is such the **** take.

Or, it is just an off-topic attack on 'liberals' leveraging a terrorist attack on the lgbtq community.

Conservatives are pushing more political violence, their reasoning is illogical, and their complaints about it being pointed out are hollow af.

 

[Warp12]

'This is a consequence of your ideals' is such the **** take.

Is it a "bad take"? Or is it completely accurate? I'd say it is accurate.

Sure, some may not like it. But that's because it is probably their ideals under attack.

 

[tyr_13]

Is it a "bad take"? Or is it completely accurate? I'd say it is accurate.

Sure, some may not like it. But that's because it is probably their ideals under attack.

Your say so is worthless. None of you have supported the idea at all. It has no merit and is transparently just a ploy to attack your political adversaries.

'The person who did the terrorist attack on the lgbtq community can use self-ID to call themselves non-binary!'

'Ok, so? That doesn't change a thing here.'

'It's a problem for trans gender people!'

'Why?'

'You just don't like the point.'


Yeah, no, you all aren't clever but you are obviously trying to use murder to your ideological advantage.

Gonna talk about all the right wingers lying about grooming in relation to this attack or just gonna keep pretending self-ID is meaningful here at all because...yeah, you all can't even connect the dots. It's just implying stupid, stupid things.

 

[Warp12]

Your say so is worthless. None of you have supported the idea at all. It has no merit and is transparently just a ploy to attack your political adversaries.

'The person who did the terrorist attack on the lgbtq community can use self-ID to call themselves non-binary!'

'Ok, so? That doesn't change a thing here.'

'It's a problem for trans gender people!'

'Why?'

'You just don't like the point.'


Yeah, no, you all aren't clever but you are obviously trying to use murder to your ideological advantage.

Gonna talk about all the right wingers lying about grooming in relation to this attack or just gonna keep pretending self-ID is meaningful here at all because...yeah, you all can't even connect the dots. It's just implying stupid, stupid things.

I don't believe that all of the above is exactly clearly articulated.

What I will say is....I don't condone political violence, but I understand it.

 

[tyr_13]

I don't believe that all of the above is exactly clearly articulated.

What I will say is....I don't condone political violence, but I understand it.

Your belief is irrelevant. You, Zigg, and Brainster, can't articulate how self-id is an actual issue here, on this subject. You're all using it to attack people you hate, even if those people were just the subject of a terror attack.

Giving pass to political violence, as has become mainstream GOP views in the US. 'Don't do it, but I understand if you do, wink wink'.